Rumor: Shadow of the Tomb Raider leaked [Up: Kotaku says real, by Eidos Montreal]

semiconscious

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She had personality. The games just didn't shove it in your face all the time. The first game introduces Lara and right away you understand that she's a globetrotting adventurer who cares more about the thrill of adventuring than money. And really that's all you need. The games aren't heavily character driven dramas; they're games where the gameplay and level design is front and center.

Ever since CD took over they decided Lara couldn't just be strong and adventurous on her own. In the backstory Core made Lara's parents disowned her because her adventurous lifestyle embarrassed them. When CD rebooted the series the first time they made her following in her father's footsteps and made her motivated to adventure to find her missing mother. When they rebooted it a second time they tossed her on death island, had a guy try to rape her, and turned her into Rambo.

Why can't we just go on an adventure where it's just Lara alone in ruins with no support crew and the game doesn't keep telling us what to do and where to go with good level design that doesn't explode and minimal combat?
thank you. sorta sad this actually has to be pointed out to people :) ...
 

vivekTO

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You can do quick and seamless animations without switching to a contextual camera that cuts away from the original view. In fact, you can do this in a shorter time leading to less animation priority, for instance, take a look at splinter cell:
But as you can see , it loses the Punch! atleast for me. in the first kill he just walked by the AI and stab him in throat, There is no weight or maybe that is not the right word to use , but it looks too Quiet. Its more tactical , but LARA is not.
I think that tomb raider CQC is more similar to TLOU , (the grungy-ness/roughness/impact) , and thats why i compared it to TLOU.

Well lets see what they do with the Third game , there is lot of time and i am sure the new developers will bring new ideas to the table. Really looking forward to it.
 

Dalibor68

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Exploration used to be one of the most rewarding parts of the series (even LAU somewhat got that right), rather than OCD busywork to empty the map of icons.
There are a lot of awesome tombs to explore, more than in TR2013. Exploration was great in the game. When completely optional, in reality even pointless because you don't need it at all, "busywork" makes you feel such an orge to "empty the map of icons" maybe something is wrong with you and not the game. And afaik to even see the stuff on the map you would first need to find the map, which is again not necessary so the map wouldn't even be "filled" and your arguement holds even less water.

Just because the game doesn't explicitly force you into doing those activities, doesn't mean they don't take a huge toll on the story and pacing. I did just enough to get the upgrades I wanted and still felt like the game had slowed way down. Having that amount of collectibles in a 3rd person action adventure is massively excessive, and it's pointless to compare it to the Witcher as that's an open-world RPG in which you are supposed to go off for random side activities.
It's not a pointless comparison at all because in both games, even more so in The Witcher 3, the game urges you to defeat this giant big threat yet at the same time you go off doing 100 sidequests instead. That is simply a matter of suspension of disbelief. And as I said before you can easily get through the whole game without doing any resource gathering or sidemissions just fine.

It was like a Ubisoft game.
Now you're just trolling to stir shit up so you've made yourself obsolete for any further discussion with me tbh.
 

Crossing Eden

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But as you can see , it loses the Punch! atleast for me. in the first kill he just walked by the AI and stab him in throat, There is no weight or maybe that is not the right word to use , but it looks too Quiet. Its more tactical , but LARA is not.
I think that tomb raider CQC is more similar to TLOU , (the grungy-ness/roughness/impact) , and thats why i compared it to TLOU.

Well lets see what they do with the Third game , there is lot of time and i am sure the new developers will bring new ideas to the table. Really looking forward to it.
TLOU despite being grungy still doesn't cut the camera away for things like that. That's my criticism of the takedowns in TR is that they wrestle away control of the camera and do cutaways, (essentially a cinematic).
 

Markitron

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It's not a pointless comparison at all because in both games, even more so in The Witcher 3, the game urges you to defeat this giant big threat yet at the same time you go off doing 100 sidequests instead. That is simply a matter of suspension of disbelief.
Yes it is a pointless comparison, because the suspension of disbelief in a 12 hour third person action/adventure/shooter is completely different to an 80 hour RPG.

And as I said before you can easily get through the whole game without doing any resource gathering or sidemissions just fine.
You continue to miss my point, the fact that you don't have to do the side content is not a valid defense of the game's terrible pacing. Also I did what I consider the standard minimum so I don't believe your claims that you can 100% ignore and still get a standard intended game experience.

Now you're just trolling to stir shit up so you've made yourself obsolete for any further discussion with me tbh.
I'm sorry that you are so offended that I have compared one game with a minimap full of side items to another game with a minimap full of side items. If anything can be considered trolling here it is your insistence that the most common criticism of this game doesn't actually exist, just because you happen to like it.
 

pretty done

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TLOU despite being grungy still doesn't cut the camera away for things like that. That's my criticism of the takedowns in TR is that they wrestle away control of the camera and do cutaways, (essentially a cinematic).
This is actually my biggest issue with Deus Ex. How can you call yourself a stealth game but be this corny with "takedown cinematics"
 
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The franchise is called Tomb Raider.... please stop using words before the main title.

Rise of the Tomb Raider was supposed to be called Tomb Raider The Raise of Lara Croft.

Stop changing the franchise identity in every possible way.
 

family_guy

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Exploration used to be one of the most rewarding parts of the series (even LAU somewhat got that right), rather than OCD busywork to empty the map of icons.
Was it really? Sure you explored to figure out how to get from point A to B, but outside of that there was no incentive to. The games had many points where once you traveled far enough, you couldn't go back. You would have to start the whole level over. There weren't a bunch of hidden weapons or gadgets to reward your exploration. Often they were just useless trinkets like you find in the Uncharted games. The new games at least gave you a reason to explore because you're building up your weapons and skills, and they didn't lock you away from being able to revisit a section without starting over for the most part.
 

Cels

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it's pretty crazy

AC Black Flag was leaked because of a lady on a plane
AC Unity was leaked because of a guy on a plane noticing the guy next to him was playing liberation on a vita
and now SOTR leaked because of a guy on the subway
 

Luke_Wal

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I think they have two Deus Ex teams (one worked on Mankind Divided, the other on the next Deus Ex) but I don't know whether they've got more than that. Perhaps they've had a smaller team doing pre-production on the next Tomb Raider and the Mankind Divided team joined them after MD was shipped?
They simultaneously developed MD AND the next one? Do they really think Deus Ex is a big enough franchise to support that? That seems insane to me.
 

RagnarokX

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Was it really? Sure you explored to figure out how to get from point A to B, but outside of that there was no incentive to. The games had many points where once you traveled far enough, you couldn't go back. You would have to start the whole level over. There weren't a bunch of hidden weapons or gadgets to reward your exploration. Often they were just useless trinkets like you find in the Uncharted games. The new games at least gave you a reason to explore because you're building up your weapons and skills, and they didn't lock you away from being able to revisit a section without starting over for the most part.
The Core games had tons of incentive to explore. For one, finding secrets in those games was an actual accomplishment since they required skill. Sometimes secrets would be really cool looking areas. But the thing that made exploration most valuable is that the stuff you find actually matters. You don't have auto-regen health and there aren't ammo caches at every step. Finding medipaks, ammo, and flares are much better rewards than crappy XP and salvage points for an upgrade system that hardly does anything. Ironically the old games are more about survival than the reboot since you have to manage resources.
 

Toa TAK

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Pretty hype if true. Rise of the Tomb Raider was easily my favorite game of 2015.

it's pretty crazy

AC Black Flag was leaked because of a lady on a plane
AC Unity was leaked because of a guy on a plane noticing the guy next to him was playing liberation on a vita
and now SOTR leaked because of a guy on the subway
Welcome to the new world
Yo we need a black mirror episode about this.
I'd watch that.
 

Bladenic

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Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed, but if this is true, I wonder why Eidos is making it and not CD. Maybe CD wanted to work on something else? Or could it be that SE wasn't happy with them. Hmmm. We probably won't get an official reveal till E3.

And yes the title is shit.
 

Morrigan Stark

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Maybe not GOAT but aside from that, what is so surprising about that opinion? The game is great, the metascore is 88% and even the steam rating is 91% positive at the moment.
Argument by metascore, really

These games are great, what exactly is shocking?
I obviously disagree that these games are great. I only played TR2013, but I don't think it's remotely a good game and to see someone praising its gameplay is almost as baffling as seeing someone praise, say, its story or writing. The gameplay in TR is a shallow joke.

What...

No. Just no.
No, Tomb Raider shouldn't be about puzzle and platforming? Are you really saying that?

It's one of the best third person shooters - the controls are amazing, which is something a Tomb Raider game has never been able to claim.
It controls well, that's true. So what? That doesn't make the game good. In terms of challenge, balance, encounters, enemy placement, etc. it's terrible. The game is utterly brain-dead. "Best third person shooters", please....

Lara feels great to control. There are few weapons so they focused on quality over quantity, the encounters have multiple ways to complete them,
Why bother when you can always shoot the conveniently placed explosive barrels and watch the pyros fly, or, in the cases where there aren't, just OHKO everything with the bow?

(or in the case of ROTR skip them altogether). The plat forming and verticality feel satisfying
Really? You found that brain-dead "platforming" to be satisfying? o_O

In both the first and second game you have this metroidvania style progression where you unlock more and more options for both combat and exploration. It's pretty brilliant.
lmao what. There's no natural Metroidvania progression, it's all just fluff. The game is like a linear game pretending to be open-world, which is just for padding. I'd rather they remained linear and focused on having memorable encounters instead. But hey, you can backtrack to obtain an audio log, and a shotgun recoil upgrade, and now my totally-not-useless XP bar increased a little. Oh the joy of exploration! /s
 

Pancake Mix

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I haven't gotten Rise of the Tomb Raider just yet on my PS4, but I will soon and I'm always up for more NuRaider.

Eidos Montreal is great, they'll give the game a different feel than Crystal Dynamics though.
 

Markitron

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Argument by metascore, really


I obviously disagree that these games are great. I only played TR2013, but I don't think it's remotely a good game and to see someone praising its gameplay is almost as baffling as seeing someone praise, say, its story or writing. The gameplay in TR is a shallow joke.


No, Tomb Raider shouldn't be about puzzle and platforming? Are you really saying that?


It controls well, that's true. So what? That doesn't make the game good. In terms of challenge, balance, encounters, enemy placement, etc. it's terrible. The game is utterly brain-dead. "Best third person shooters", please....


Why bother when you can always shoot the conveniently placed explosive barrels and watch the pyros fly, or, in the cases where there aren't, just OHKO everything with the bow?


Really? You found that brain-dead "platforming" to be satisfying? o_O


lmao what. There's no natural Metroidvania progression, it's all just fluff. The game is like a linear game pretending to be open-world, which is just for padding. I'd rather they remained linear and focused on having memorable encounters instead. But hey, you can backtrack to obtain an audio log, and a shotgun recoil upgrade, and now my totally-not-useless XP bar increased a little. Oh the joy of exploration! /s
Even though I liked the game, I'd be hard-pressed to disagree with any of this. Aside from the collectable fluff (which I won't go back into), it was the combat that really bothered me most. It was completely trivial from about 1/3 of the way thru the game.
 

LordKasual

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Uh

Will i be toting twin pistols, doing acrobatic flips, shooting wolves and swan diving?

Because im gonna be honest, I loved the TR reboot but it would be so much better if it just went full old-school tombraider instead of trying to share space with Uncharted-
 

Crossing Eden

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Why bother when you can always shoot the conveniently placed explosive barrels and watch the pyros fly, or, in the cases where there aren't, just OHKO everything with the bow?
Neither games don't have an abundance of red barrels, so much so that they make it a point when there is one. And again, it's up to the player. Each arena allows for multiple approaches, which is always a good thing compared to funneling the player down shooting gallerys ala uncharted.

Really? You found that brain-dead "platforming" to be satisfying? o_O
Yes. Because the games are well designed and put relatively simplistic platforming to good use. As well as expand overtime with more and more options for platforming, the ever increasing verticality on top of those sections make them fun to play.

lmao what. There's no natural Metroidvania progression, it's all just fluff.
Yes there is, the first game especially, has you return to the same areas over and over again with new ways to traverse them. As well as giving you new combat options overtime. It's incredibly natural.

The game is like a linear game pretending to be open-world
It's a linear game with metroidvania elements and open areas that encourage exploration.

which is just for padding. I'd rather they remained linear and focused on having memorable encounters instead.
But hey, you can backtrack to obtain an audio log, and a shotgun recoil upgrade, and now my totally-not-useless XP bar increased a little. Oh the joy of exploration! /s
It's only padding if you don't consider the rewards to be sufficient. Learning more about the lore of the environment you're in coupled with being able to unlock more abilities and upgrades that another player rushing through the game is sufficient enough of a reward in a game like TR. Especially since the most rewarding optional content is optional tombs. And there's the fact that this stuff is all optional content made for players who are interested more in the lore of the locations, artifacts, even more tomb raiding, etc., so if someone who doesn't wanna do them don't want to, then they absolutely aren't forced into doing so. Please do me a favor and turn down condescending.exe ಠ_ಠ
 

Mman235

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The Core games had tons of incentive to explore. For one, finding secrets in those games was an actual accomplishment since they required skill. Sometimes secrets would be really cool looking areas. But the thing that made exploration most valuable is that the stuff you find actually matters. You don't have auto-regen health and there aren't ammo caches at every step. Finding medipaks, ammo, and flares are much better rewards than crappy XP and salvage points for an upgrade system that hardly does anything. Ironically the old games are more about survival than the reboot since you have to manage resources.
I see my answer to that post has been covered.

Yes. Because the games are well designed and put relatively simplistic platforming to good use. As well as expand overtime with more and more options for platforming, the ever increasing verticality on top of those sections make them fun to play.
That area you linked one of the only bits of creative platforming in the game, and even that would be a tutorial segment for an idea (wind-affected ledges) that could be expanded a lot in a game that treated platforming as a core feature rather a break from shooting people.
 

Crossing Eden

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I see my answer to that post has been covered.



That area you linked one of the only bits of creative platforming in the game, and even that would be a tutorial segment for an idea (wind-affected ledges) that could be expanded a lot in a game that treated platforming as a core feature rather a break from shooting people.
It's not a tutorial, as Lara doesn't explain how it works at all and neither does the game, it's an optional segment that players may or may not encounter before they see it in the main game. Which is pretty brilliant. That and the windy valley where you make more and more ziplines as you make your way to through the segment, it's just really well done for what it is.
 

RedSwirl

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I guess this is as good a place as any to describe my feelings on the last several Tomb Raider games.

I never got to play the really old TR games. I only had Nintendo consoles during those years. The first one I got to play was the PS2 version of Legend in like 2006. Along with Anniversary and Underworld I liked those three games for their puzzles and environments. I felt they were really good adventure games at a time when those were becoming less common on consoles. The only thing that sucked was the combat. I actually liked Anniversary the most because it had almost no combat and was basically an adventure game.

I bought TR2013 on sale and 100%'ed it, but I only YouTube'd Rise of the Tomb Raider because TR2013 felt like the most generic shooter ever. I think what it really comes down to is I just don't agree with the whole "survivor" angle, neither the idea of it nor how Crystal Dynamics implemented it.

People have already criticized Lara's characterization in the last couple Tomb Raider games and I generally agree. Young inexperienced Lara is an idea that has potential but in TR2013 you have the whiplash of freaking out over killing one guy and then killing probably just as many people as Nathan Drake. Except Drake's kills aren't nearly as gratuitously violent. I don't see why Tomb Raider had to go for a hard M rating when its competition and inspiration: Uncharted, Prince of Persia, or Nolan Batman, has been T/PG-13. It's just more proof they turned Tomb Raider into another conventional shooter. Then of course you have Lara in Rise of the Tomb Raider being almost as vulnerable as in TR2013, not showing much gained confidence. Lastly concerning the character I just think new Lara is too serious all the time. Even the grittiest stories need a little bit of levity and Lara is just covered in dirt and blood, getting her ass kicked or performing some kind of execution animation all the time.

Gameplay-wise on the survivor angle, scavenging is just a crafting system that felt like unnecessary bloat, the hunting does nothing but give you experience points that also felt like unnecessary bloat, then Rise seemed to just layer on more crap to level up. I even feel like the bonfires were just an opportunistic nod to Dark Souls because it's trendy. I appreciate CD making the combat better than in previous games (though I think reboot TR is too gratuitous with its violence), but that combat ended up taking over the whole game and overshadowing what made Tomb Raider, Tomb Raider. There needed to be less "Lara the survivor" and more "Lara the action archaeologist."

The open-world exploration angle had potential in something like Tomb Raider where the focus is on investigating ruins, but CD made the same mistakes every modern open-world game designer seems to make. It put icons for collectibles all over the place, which didn't seem to be placed with much care. A few were tricky to get to but for the most part it felt like another Ubisoft collect-a-thon. Generally, for a game about uncovering mysteries, TR2013 gave players too much information upfront. Yeah, it had the optional tombs like the one showcased in that "Great Gaming Levels" video posted a while back, but those make up too little of the game. They should have been a more central focus.

I always felt Zelda should have been the template an open-world Tomb Raider followed. Give the player a big world that has a lot of mysteries in it, make it stoke curiosity. Don't immediately tell players where to go next but let them find clues. Fill the world with puzzles that unlock new items and areas. Make them think and familiarize themselves with the world.

The problem is exploration in open worlds isn't done like that anymore. The new model is Elder Scrolls which marks every place you "discover" with a waypoint, or Creed where all the collectibles are highlighted right there on the map, never designed to be found out of pure curiosity on the player's part. CD, like other developers, were afraid of players getting lost or stumped.

It's funny Eidos Montreal is possibly on this now because I feel like the last couple Deus Ex games are almost the only modern games that do this kind of exploration right. Human Revolution and Mankind Divided reward players for finding a hidden vent, or a platform out of the way, or an opening somewhere and wondering "how do I get up there?" In both games you can turn off the waypoints and quest compass and still find your way around using just the main map and the objective descriptions which always describe in enough detail where to go. I'm just hoping Eidos Montreal can bring some better environment and level design into Tomb Raider because exploration is one thing it has done pretty well.

The only thing I'll really give TR2013 is that it controls really well. I think a lot of people like it more than Uncharted partly because Uncharted gives a lot more priority to Drake's animations compared to TR2013. Laura is more responsive to player input which makes the whole game built upon that foundation feel a bit better.
 

yunbuns

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Really? You found that brain-dead "platforming" to be satisfying? o_O
I don't get comments like this. Why is it so baffling that someone likes something different than you? I don't like the gameplay of the classics and think the controls are awful but I not going to question why people like them in such a way. Like it just comes off really condescending. People like different things. Different strokes for different folks.

Anyway, I'm excited for the next game. I do hope we visit more locations, they have real supernatural elements instead of a
boring undead army again
, and Lara starts to have some of Classic Lara's wit and charm because those are things I miss from the classics.
 

Mman235

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That's the point, it's so bare-bones it should be an appetiser for more complex/dangerous implementations of the concept, but that's all you get. The fact it's optional makes it worse if anything, because there was nothing holding them back from going all in the concept since not every player has to do it, but they just didn't go anywhere with it.
 

Shin-chan

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I'm sure if you look back at the Rise announcement threads you'll see a lot of predictions for this as the next shitty title. Did they even try?

Here's hoping it's a working title and not the final thing because fuck me, it's so bad. Here's also hoping they can craft a compelling game not bogged down by collectathon bullshit and create some good combat encounters, weapons and puzzles. Also bring back the dual fucking pistols!
 

Dalibor68

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Argument by metascore, really
And steam user score(91% pos overall, 94% pos recent which is very hard to get for AAA games), which you conveniently ignored. Point being that it's a beloved game and your arguement of a smug, arrogant "Huh how can people like this? :')" isn't exactly rich either.

I don't get comments like this. Why is it so baffling that someone likes something different than you?
Echo chamber effect. When you only surround yourself with (in this regard) likeminded people and opinions it eventually appears as the only true opinion when in reality it's a minority opinion.
 

Bollocks

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Tomb Raider: Rise of the Reich, where you travel back in time and steal the stolen art deep inside the caves of the alps.
 

Peru

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Rise is one of the best-paced games I've ever played. Moved perfectly along at all times, while allowing for quick side missions to explore and enjoy the landscape, and with beautiful dungeons just the right length for the puzzles to always feel fresh. A great argument for more linear but spacious single player adventures.
 

vivekTO

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TLOU despite being grungy still doesn't cut the camera away for things like that. That's my criticism of the takedowns in TR is that they wrestle away control of the camera and do cutaways, (essentially a cinematic).
Haha, I think we are saying the same thing . I also wants that tomb raider should approach seamless transition between melee and takedowns , and should be similar to the Tlou , thats why the comparison.
 

Arklite

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Rise is one of the best-paced games I've ever played. Moved perfectly along at all times, while allowing for quick side missions to explore and enjoy the landscape, and with beautiful dungeons just the right length for the puzzles to always feel fresh. A great argument for more linear but spacious single player adventures.
I'd say Rise is too dependant on the player managing the pace, making it too variable. TR '13 presents its set pieces and narrative front and center while leaving a few trinkets to pique your interest rather than clutter your map. I do prefer Rise's hub design with its longer, unscripted exploration opportunities.
 

Lakitu

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Is this by the same team as Deus Ex: Mankind Divided or the Thief team? I hope it doesn't impact the next Deus Ex development :/

Also, if it's not Crystal Dynamics then what are they doing?
 

RagnarokX

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I see my answer to that post has been covered.



That area you linked one of the only bits of creative platforming in the game, and even that would be a tutorial segment for an idea (wind-affected ledges) that could be expanded a lot in a game that treated platforming as a core feature rather a break from shooting people.
Yeah, the Hall of Ascention is about as challenging as the game gets, which is sad because it's rather enjoyable but only took like a minute to figure out. Imagine a game that ran with the concepts and was full of great puzzles and the difficulty increased.

I don't get comments like this. Why is it so baffling that someone likes something different than you? I don't like the gameplay of the classics and think the controls are awful but I not going to question why people like them in such a way. Like it just comes off really condescending. People like different things. Different strokes for different folks.

Anyway, I'm excited for the next game. I do hope we visit more locations, they have real supernatural elements instead of a
boring undead army again
, and Lara starts to have some of Classic Lara's wit and charm because those are things I miss from the classics.
Well, if you said that the gameplay and controls of the classic games were bad I would point out the many ways they are good. How the controls are perfectly precise so any error is your fault and not the game's. How the wide array of moves at your disposal makes the game very engaging to figure out. How the level design actually engages and challenges you. You'd still be free to not like them, of course.

Now, when someone says that the gameplay of the reboot felt "satisfying" I'm curious what's satisfying about the gameplay. The things that happen in the game certainly look cool, but in terms of player interaction it's sorely lacking. Lara's moveset has been reduced to the bare minimum and the game autocorrects your jumps so that you have to try to fail. Like "solving" a math equation where you just trace the answer that's already been filled in for you. I can't see how that's satisfying as gameplay. I get that some people don't want to be challenged and prefer spectacle, but saying the gameplay is good because it's barely there is kinda weird. And we have so many games these days that play like this; is it really exciting that we get another one conforming to the homogenized checklist of modern AAA gaming? Esepcially when it's a franchise that used to have very unique gameplay?