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[Cosmonaut X]

- using a camera to capture the remote / player actions - much the same way that the PS Eye does in the PS Move setup, or Kinect on the 360.

That sounds most likely to me. It wouldn't necessarily have to be doing all the work, as Kinect does, but if you have a RemotePlus Mk2 looking at a sensor bar, and a camera in the sensor bar tracking an emitter in the tip of the RemotePlus... would that work?

You'd essentially have both ends of the controller/console connection tracking each other, and coupled with the gyro data from the controller I'd have thought you'd have something fairly robust right there.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

how long after the release of the Cafe will we see all reviews put the caveat of 'it looks good...for a 360/PS3 game' so we know its an inferior product and should be avoided?

 

[Zaptruder]

How much fun would it be if Sony decided to make the PSP2 usable on the PS4 as a controller?

Incorporate a 'subscreen button' on the Dualshock 4. If you use the PSP2 as a controller, the display is the subscreen.

Tah-dah!

 

[Vinci]

how long after the release of the Cafe will we see all reviews put the caveat of 'it looks good...for a 360/PS3 game' so we know its an inferior product and should be avoided?

You will never, ever hear that.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Do you really think Nintendo would leave out gyroscopes or a pointer enabling camera in the Frankenstick? Of course they'd still be in there. Just not as the sole emphasis.

Only people who can't analyze trends and back history think Nintendo is going to stick a little screen on the Wiimote and call it a day. Kinect is the new leader in motion. Whether you think it sucks or not is irrelevant. To the casual masses, it's Motion 2.0.

So where does that leave us? Trying to make sense of the more reliable info that's been released. And if you piece it together, there's a semi-coherent direction you could argue.

So what if Nintendo released this traditonal/tablet style controller AND straight up ripped off Kinect? That's the only way I can see Nintendo ditching the pointer....and I still think they'd sell one as an accessory for certain titles.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Crystal Chronicles used the GBA almost entirely for menus and stuff.

Even simple things need a controller that can drive and update it's own screen, responding to touch immediately etc. This is making things much more expensive, not to mention more fragile and killing battery life. If it's only simple stuff then this would be an odd thing to focus your system, controllers and 6" screen round.

Things like reproducing splitscreen play would require the controllers to either be insanely powerful, or you offload everything to the console which is very problematic and a wasteful use of the console's power. Having to render everything potentially 5 times, instead of just once and making the best of your console's move to HD. All so you can create an experience that has limited benefits, and is better served by wirelessly linking to a standalone handheld.

It just doesn't add up, and I really have no idea where all this talk is coming from and why IGN seem so certain about it.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

What's your source?

 

[Starchasing]

How much fun would it be if Sony decided to make the PSP2 usable on the PS4 as a controller?

Incorporate a 'subscreen button' on the Dualshock 4. If you use the PSP2 as a controller, the display is the subscreen.

Tah-dah!

It would fail because it would become too expensive and would not be standard.. just as what happened to GC GBA

 

[Cosmonaut X]

How much fun would it be if Sony decided to make the PSP2 usable on the PS4 as a controller?

Incorporate a 'subscreen button' on the Dualshock 4. If you use the PSP2 as a controller, the display is the subscreen.

Tah-dah!

I've seen this mentioned before (usually along with a "LOLZ - Sony can just copy this with the PSP2!") but what I don't usually see mentioned alongside it is:

-- Assuming even the absolute best-case scenario (it's incredibly easy for Sony to do, and the PSP2 is significantly cheaper than expected), does anyone seriously expect anyone but the most committed gamer/Sony fan to be buying a PSP2 just as an extra controller at, say $200-250 a pop?

That's a hell of an extravagance just to replicate the functionality of a next-gen Wiimote...

 

[wsippel]

Things like reproducing splitscreen play would require the controllers to either be insanely powerful, or you offload everything to the console which is very problematic and a wasteful use of the console's power. Having to render everything potentially 5 times, instead of just once and making the best of your console's move to HD. All so you can create an experience that has limited benefits, and is better served by wirelessly linking to a standalone handheld.

The controller is supposedly a dumb streaming client, no processing power at all. And you need to render everything four times at a quarter the resolution for splitscreen, anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference.

 

[Vinci]

It would fail because it would become too expensive and would not be standard.. just as what happened to GC GBA

Bingo.

 

[coldvein]

they're not really going to be calling it Cafe, are they? this is just a placeholder name right?

 

[H_Prestige]

No, it really isn't anymore.

 

[Vinci]

they're not really going to be calling it Cafe, are they? this is just a placeholder name right?

As far as I know, Nintendo has never converted a codename into the product's actual name.

 

[poppabk]

Are we to believe motion control will be more accurate than move? That, IMO, messes with the thought that the Wii remote will be what works on the new system.

The main difference between the two is the camera and ball on the move controller. Some kind of adapter would not be out of the question to replicate a lot of what move does if they wanted to go that route. With a higher res camera you might be able to use something less obtrusive than a glowing ball. Seems unlikely though.
My guess is we will have a new controller that is 100% backwards compatible and that old controllers will be 50% forward compatible depending on what features are required. Having a mix of controllers worked out ok for them this gen, gamecube, wiimote, wiimote + nunchuck, Wiimote+, classic, classic pro etc.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Only if the controllers are pretty damn powerful and standalone. Things like Crystal Chronicles worked because the handheld is doing all the work. All these things are better done by just wireless linking to say the 3DS, which even has Download Play ready to do it.

Using a separate console to do all the work and fire things out to each controller in realtime is very problematic, and also not a good use of a console. With the television display as well, you'd be rendering 5 things squandering the gains from moving to HD.

Unless you keep things very simple, which would be bizarre with a 6" screen. There's basically an incredible level of redundancy going on with these rumours. A huge overlap between the console experience and the handheld one, leveraging the strengths of neither.

Despite how certain people like IGN seem about all this, there's so many logical problems with it. It's very odd indeed.

It's basically like split screen except instead of actually splitting the screen, the controllers display the full screen. It's definitely possible, but it may be hard to program efficiently.

 

[1-D_FTW]

So what if Nintendo released this traditonal/tablet style controller AND straight up ripped off Kinect? That's the only way I can see Nintendo ditching the pointer....and I still think they'd sell one as an accessory for certain titles.

I suppose they could build a Kinect type camera into the sensor bar (Since a sensor bar of some kind is going to be required for backwards compatibility anyways).

I'm just not sold it means you have to eliminate a more primitive pointer from the Frankenstick (unless it becomes totally redundant by the touchscreen) even if you don't.

 

[From The Dust]

Why not just put the sensor bar in the Cafe itself?

 

[Vinci]

Why not just put the sensor bar in the Cafe itself?

Because Nintendo cannot guarantee where people are going to put their console?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I suppose they could build a Kinect type camera into the sensor bar (Since a sensor bar of some kind is going to be required for backwards compatibility anyways).

I'm just not sold it means you have to eliminate a more primitive pointer from the Frankenstick (unless it becomes totally redundant by the touchscreen) even if you don't.

Are you aware that developers are saying "the frankenstick" is a two-handed controller. That is the word from developers with devkits according to IGN. A GameCube type controller with an LCD screen with touch capabilities in the center.

But I would have to assume the camera is built into the system. So it could also be used for motion games. Nintendo has been enthralled with cameras since the Game Boy.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The controller is supposedly a dumb streaming client, no processing power at all. And you need to render everything four times at a quarter the resolution for splitscreen, anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference.

You still have to render the actual television picture as well on top of all that. So unless you want your HD console scaled down because of all the stuff it is also sending to the controllers, this is a no-go.

Just sending all that video to the controllers is problematic, and far from ideal for realtime gameplay with someone as fussy about controls as Nintendo.

And why make a focus of your HD console a 6" screen in your hands? You are mashing up the experiences of console and handheld play without the strengths of either.

None of this adds up.

 

[From The Dust]

Because Nintendo cannot guarantee where people are going to put their console?

Then they should pull an Apple and tell the users they are doing it wrong

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Why not just put the sensor bar in the Cafe itself?

Uh, well:

In my house, I have the TV facing out into the room and my Wii connected up and sat on a bookcase tucked away almost out of sight. Fat lot of use if the sensor was built into the console!

The bar being independent of the system is a great idea, as it frees users up to place the slim, bland bar in an unobtrusive place beneath or above the TV while the console itself is out of view, or in a more convenient location. Pop all the sensing apparatus in the console and you have to place it directly below the TV again - perhaps OK when people had CRTs that had bulky and spacious stands, but now?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Why not just put the sensor bar in the Cafe itself?

Unless you can guarantee that the console will be directly on top of / underneath the TV at all times, that's a no-go. You either need the camera on the TV looking at lights on the controller (move), or camera on the controller looking at lights on the TV.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both. IIRC Move uses different colours for its balls because there is only one camera and it might get confused as to which controller is which during heavy activity. Since the lights are always fixed and each controller has it's own camera, the Wii can get away with not needing a billion coloured lights to operate shit. Now, whether Move could have been made using IR and other non-visible wavelengths, I dunno. The downside to Wii is that each controller needs a (relatively) expensive camera, and the better quality you want to make the camera to get higher accuracy, the more expensive it becomes.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Are you aware that developers are saying "the frankenstick" is a two-handed controller. That is the word from developers with devkits according to IGN. A GameCube type controller with an LCD screen with touch capabilities in the center.

But I would have to assume the camera is built into the system. So it could also be used for motion games. Nintendo has been enthralled with cameras since the Game Boy.

I'm not dismissing the existence of a frankenstick, but I can't believe that they'll drop the Wii Remote when they introduce this monster.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's basically like split screen except instead of actually splitting the screen, the controllers display the full screen. It's definitely possible, but it may be hard to program efficiently.

Then what does the TV display while this is happening?

It would be pointless to display the splitscreen, so it would be rendering a full picture which has now been crippled by everything else it's rendering. And all so just one person can enjoy the experience better than everyone else forced to look at a tiny screen. Unless the idea is for people to now be playing with the television off, negating the point of a console, and they might as well all just have a 3DS and play games on that.

There is an incredible level of redundancy with this concept, it makes no sense.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I just want to know how powerful this thing is.. if its equal or barely greater then 5 year old consoles I think that might be a problem.

either way I am in! I love Nintendo's Ip's

 

[Gvaz]

Because everyone has normal controllers, and they never have enough buttons.

The normal Xbox360 controller is fine. Though yeah KB/M is really what we need tho

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I'm not dismissing the existence of a frankenstick, but I can't believe that they'll drop the Wii Remote when they introduce this monster.

Well. It definitely will be there somewhere. But I think the point is that they want premiere software from third parties. And a two-handed controller that is semi-traditional with some innovations can do that.

The motion controls / pointer controls seem to be delegated to more basic software. Again, Nintendo can even pack in an updated wiimote with every pointer game they sell. It is no different than what they do now.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Are you aware that developers are saying "the frankenstick" is a two-handed controller. That is the word from developers with devkits according to IGN. A GameCube type controller with an LCD screen with touch capabilities in the center.

But I would have to assume the camera is built into the system. So it could also be used for motion games. Nintendo has been enthralled with cameras since the Game Boy.

That's the point I'm arguing. The two handed monstrosity that is a traditional controller with built in touch screen.

You know where the chord traditionally came out on controllers of yesterday? Put in a Wiimote like camera right there and you could have pointer abilities (using the LEDs on the sensor bar that's required for backwards compatibility).

Is it going to be as elegant as a one handed controller? Not even close. But aside from shooters (which wouldn't work with a two handed controller anyway), I'm not sold you couldn't still incorporate decent pointer controls if you wanted to. The Frankenstick doesn't preclude pointer controls from being included.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Then what does the TV display while this is happening?

It would be pointless to display the splitscreen, so it would be rendering a full picture which has now been crippled by everything else it's rendering. And all so just one person can enjoy the experience better than everyone else forced to look at a tiny screen. Unless the idea is for people to now be playing with the television off, negating the point of a console, and they might as well all just have a 3DS and play games on that.

There is an incredible level of redundancy with this concept, it makes no sense.

No I mean instead of the screen being split into two, there are two screens; one on the TV and one on someone else's controller. Prevents a multiplayer game from being scrunched into one screen.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I'm still convinced there's an element missing here somewhere, because I simply can't reconcile:

"Trad-pad layout with screen"
-
-
-
with
-
-
-
"Better than Move motion controls"

Motion controls - and pointer etc. - are simply better done with split controllers and the wand shape. You certainly would want to be waving the screen-pad around in the way you do for, say, Wii Sports Resort.

The only way I can make it all come together is either some kind of modular controller (command units and shells, or splitting apart, or...) or multiple controllers in the package.

 

[Jest]

probably fake but why not post it.

 

[jacksrb]

I'm still convinced there's an element missing here somewhere, because I simply can't reconcile:

"Trad-pad layout with screen"
-
-
-
with
-
-
-
"Better than Move motion controls"

Motion controls - and pointer etc. - are simply better done with split controllers and the wand shape. You certainly would want to be waving the screen-pad around in the way you do for, say, Wii Sports Resort.

The only way I can make it all come together is either some kind of modular controller (command units and shells, or splitting apart, or...) or multiple controllers in the package.

Completely agree. And the 'complex' for controllers really isn'y Nintendo's style and could be intimidating for new gamers.

 

[devildog820]

probably fake but why not post it.

http://i.imgur.com/zuH7x.jpg

Turrible fake. Probably somewhat accurate though, ironically.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

So fake.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The controller diagram looks plausible-ish, but the box is fucking hideous, so I'm guessing fake.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Well. It definitely will be there somewhere. But I think the point is that they want premiere software from third parties. And a two-handed controller that is semi-traditional with some innovations can do that.

The motion controls / pointer controls seem to be delegated to more basic software. Again, Nintendo can even pack in an updated wiimote with every pointer game they sell. It is no different than what they do now.

I'd hope they drop one in the box. I rather like them for FPS games.

 

[Big One]

If that's real I think I woiuld be okay with that design or something similar. Pretty much the only way to do that controller and still have it feel comfortable in the hands.

 

[Mrbob]

If those images are real, color me excited after seeing the controller. It is a real controller please have rubber analogs Nintendo.

Now just go to Valve and say put Steamworks on Super Wii and we are golden. FIX ur online please.

 

[H_Prestige]

Looks nice. I hope it's real.

 

[Vinci]

That looks awful. If it's anything like that, it will be the least appealing controller of all time. Definitely fake.

 

[Mrbob]

Detective gaf can anyone make out the text in the bottom image?

 

[Fourth Storm]

I'm still convinced there's an element missing here somewhere, because I simply can't reconcile:

"Trad-pad layout with screen"
-
-
-
with
-
-
-
"Better than Move motion controls"

Motion controls - and pointer etc. - are simply better done with split controllers and the wand shape. You certainly would want to be waving the screen-pad around in the way you do for, say, Wii Sports Resort.

The only way I can make it all come together is either some kind of modular controller (command units and shells, or splitting apart, or...) or multiple controllers in the package.

I'm with yah. I, for one, would be very disappointed if Nintendo ditched the wand shape or relegated it to something like Classic Controller status in an ironic twist of fate...

Just seems illogical, but who knows? This is Nintendo we're talking about...

 

[From The Dust]

that looks like Mario Kart Wii on those screens

 

[brochiller]

That screen definitely isn't 6''.

 

[poppabk]

Detective gaf can anyone make out the text in the bottom image?

'suckers'?

 

[From The Dust]

I kinda like the design on the controllers though. looks too small to be 6", but it looks good

 

[robor]

I like the look of that console shell in those pics.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Can't understand what the point of the screen on the controller is.

Plus, i find it very weird that Nintendo will just ditch the whole motion thang they got rollin.