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[Can Crusher]

Xbox 361 was supposed to come to tide us over till 2014 because what's coming this year can be supported by the PS3 but not by the Xbox360.

I don't understand this. The Xbox 361 sounds like imagination, and somehow all of a sudden there's like a generational gap between the PS3 and 360 in the year 2013. Just like that.

Haha, he always spouts BS. EVERYTHING he says is BS.

What's up with the hostility? He gets easily excited, but he's not full of BS. He has his theories, just like everybody else.

 

[blackflag]

Hnnnng new Xbox is sounding thick, solid, tight. Would.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I think that rumored hard drive is too small. It seems like a nice size now, just like the 20GB one did at the start of the 360's life. However, I think with more games going digital (and bigger ones as well), this will likely not be enough for the system's life.

I like to install most of my games and I have a sizable arcade library as well. Of course, I'm sure they'll allow me to purchase an X-Box branded larger harddrive with a crazy markup in terms of price.

I guess the 640 GB version would most likely be the premium version. You don't need a 640 GB HDD in an entry level unit. You massively overestimate the need for a big drive, most people will be absolutely fine with a 160 GB drive, this is enough for lots of DLCs and small download-only games, this unit has to be as cheap as possible. And the Blu-ray drives in those new consoles will probably fast enough so that you don't need to install games too. Maybe there is even a small SSD (~16 GB), which can be used by games as temporary storage.

BDXL

This is a possibility. BDXL drives are already out there, and they are cheap. The only problem here is that the BDA has not yet finalized the next Blu-ray standard for movies, which would include 4K and HFR@48/60fps as well as new codecs like h.265, so there is a possibility that this standard may not be compatible with existing BDXL drives, because they want to have even bigger capacities. But on the other hand, Sony is a member of the BDA, so they probably will make sure that the right technology is inside the PS4.

Another possibility is that they will only build in a normal Blu-ray drive because of costs. You don't need more for games, and the disc war is over. Sony does not really have to push a new technology at all costs. They could make the PS4 cheaper, and probably can sell more of their own, dedicated BD 4K players. The HDMI 2.0 spec is also not yet finished, which could be a problem, too.

 

[Haggis]

I guess the 640 GB version would most likely be the premium version. You don't need a 640 GB HDD in an entry level unit. You massively overestimate the need for a big drive, most people will be absolutely fine with a 160 GB drive, this is enough for lots of DLCs and small download-only games, this unit has to be as cheap as possible. And the Blu-ray drives in those new consoles will probably fast enough so that you don't need to install games too. Maybe there is even a small SSD (~16 GB), which can be used by games as temporary storage.

Depends on what MS has planned. If you can do full install of games like the 360 and use it as a PVR you are going to need a big drive.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Sure, but I would classify these things as "luxury". You can always buy a new harddrive or connect a USB drive or something. But I guess they want to make at least one version which is as cheap as possible, and a smaller harddrive would be at the top of the list of things which they can strip off to achieve that.

 

[derFeef]

Is DDR3 really going to be a problem, even with maybe a large eSRAM pool?

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Sure, but I would classify these things as "luxury". You can always buy a new harddrive or connect a USB drive or something. But I guess they want to make at least one version which is as cheap as possible, and a smaller harddrive would be at the top of the list of things which they can strip off to achieve that.

I really hope they let users hook up their own hard external hard drive. They already allow USB memory sticks, and Nintendo allows this as well.

I'm all excited now about the 'what-ifs'. Between this and the steam-box(es), 2013 seems like it could be a pretty great year (not to mention if Sony hops back into the game). <-- I mean as far as announcing new hardware, I didn't mean to suggest they're not competitive.

 

[Psychotext]

BDXL

Yeah, I guess that could fit. Bit boring though!

 

[Can Crusher]

Is DDR3 really going to be a problem, even with maybe a large eSRAM pool?

I think MS will have to offer a solution to the BW problems. There are rumors about Ddr4, 2.5 stacking, Edram etc etc

I don't even know what eSRAM is, can only find Wiki for SRAM, but I guess if it has the needed amount to open the BW gate then sure.

We'll see if MS has an answer for that in the near future I guess.

 

[Aasir Osu]

Uh, is anyone paying attention to the Samsung keynote? It looks like MS demoed some feature with an xbox and images projected around a room, but it's hard to be sure because Engadget's text isn't clear as to what was demoed.

 

[Haggis]

Is DDR3 really going to be a problem, even with maybe a large eSRAM pool?

I am sure MS is going to make the system as efficient as it can and wouldn't opt for 8GB if it wasn't efficient enough to use it.

 

[alphaNoid]

Uh, is anyone paying attention to the Samsung keynote? It looks like MS demoed some feature with an xbox and images projected around a room, but it's hard to be sure because Engadget's text isn't clear as to what was demoed.

Interesting that goes hand in hand with a MS patent from earlier in the year, projecting images in the room in some kind of VR type thing.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Uh, is anyone paying attention to the Samsung keynote? It looks like MS demoed some feature with an xbox and images projected around a room, but it's hard to be sure because Engadget's text isn't clear as to what was demoed.

Wow, I just checked it out, this is what was said:

BEN DRAWBAUGH 1:01 PM
It can fill in behind the TV with video or make it seem like it is snowing in the room.

BEN DRAWBAUGH 1:00 PM
Someone is playing Xbox games, and there are lights and images all around the room.

Wtf lol, that sounds crazy.
Source

 

[Aasir Osu]

Interesting that goes hand in hand with a MS patent from earlier in the year, projecting images in the room in some kind of VR type thing.

Yeah, that's what made it catch my eye - that and the bendable windows phone that was also demoed. But from the liveblog text, it isn't clear what the context for showing the demo (or video of the demo) was - it just jumps to it, with an unclear image of what's happening

 

[Can Crusher]

Wow, I just checked it out, this is what was said:

BEN DRAWBAUGH 1:01 PM
It can fill in behind the TV with video or make it seem like it is snowing in the room.

BEN DRAWBAUGH 1:00 PM
Someone is playing Xbox games, and there are lights and images all around the room.

Wtf lol, that sounds crazy.
Source

Didn't MS patent some stuff like that? Stuff from the game being kinda "holo projected" into the room or something?

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Didn't MS patent some stuff like that? Stuff from the game being kinda "holo projected" into the room or something?

I thought that was part of the leaked Xbox roadmap. This kinda sounds like the Fortaleza glasses that they were gonna introduce in 2015.

This.

 

[Karak]

Didn't MS patent some stuff like that? Stuff from the game being kinda "holo projected" into the room or something?

Correct

 

[Psychotext]

Yeah, the patent was slightly different. Let me see if I can dig it up...

 

[Graphics Horse]

I thought that was part of the leaked Xbox roadmap. This kinda sounds like the Fortaleza glasses that they were gonna introduce in 2015.

This.

No there was something different using projection patented.

 

[StevieP]

There was actually a very vocal group that swore up and down that it would be revealed at CES 2012, then GDC, then E3. As software announcements continued to pour in for PS360 (especially Resident Evil 6 and Halo 4) there was insistence that MS was going to Twilight Princess Halo, release a Wii-style upgrade that was heavily dependent on Kinect, and rely on a few Kinect titles to launch with zero notable 3rd party core exclusives. Oh, and this was going to launch at $300, even though the $360 + Kinect was still retailing at $399 at the time. On top of that, MS was going to release a $99 360 lite with no hdd and no optical drive to serve that growing casual audience that wanted DD only games and no storage. Plus, more than 2 GB of RAM was a fanboy pipe dream because giant corporations would never, ever use off the shelf parts so why do you guys keep quoting cheap newegg prices?

And no, it wasn't just StevieP, though he was the most vocal.

I was least vocal, actually. I believe nintex was most vocal. Pretty sure that MS wanted to launch earlier than q4 2013 though. Ie strike while the iron is hot in the US.

 

[Psychotext]

Here it is: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/17/microsoft_holodeck_patent/

 

[jmood88]

i can totally see that..and the 8 morphing into a B or some shit lol

I could see Microsoft's invitations to their Xbox announcement coming on cards where the b changes into an 8.

 

[Karak]

Here it is: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/17/microsoft_holodeck_patent/

Isn't that what Can crusher was talking about?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Correct

Is this something for launch?

 

[Can Crusher]

Correct

Are these the leaks you were talking about?

I wanna see this in action. The VR thing on the Verge yesterday was awesome for example.

Isn't that what Can crusher was talking about?

I guess I mixed both the images above. Only now I noticed that the surroundings are the level. hmm Don't know if that's practical, would need a whole room for it, you couldn't have paintings on the walls...no stands...no nothing....just white and empty walls. Rich kid feature.

 

[Psychotext]

Isn't that what Can crusher was talking about?

That's why I posted it. It's different from the 3D thing isn't it?

 

[Karak]

That's why I posted it. It's different from the 3D thing isn't it?

Yes I misread who was saying that something was in erro,. Sorry posting from mobile.

 

[derFeef]

Made a thread about it, with pics
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46242368#post46242368

 

[Karak]

Are these the leaks you were talking about?

I wanna see this in action. The VR thing on the Verge yesterday was awesome for example.




I guess I mixed both the images above. Only now I noticed that the surroundings are the level. hmm Don't know if that's practical, would need a whole room for it, you couldn't have paintings on the walls...no stands...no nothing....just white and empty walls. Rich kid feature.

One of the connected leaks concerning the living room stuff I spoke about earlier with not normally expected partners.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I think you're full of BS, quite honestly.

Haha, he always spouts BS. EVERYTHING he says is BS.

If anything, he should be the most trustworthy poster of theories here in GAF. I thought he was kinda crazy with the PS3 browser update, but turns out he was very, very right.

 

[tipoo]

Made a thread about it, with pics
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46242368#post46242368

Edited: The illumiroom video clears things up. So where does the light come from? The TV? Or some sort of box in the center of the room? Because how would it get around obstructions if it was from the TV or console?

 

[KageMaru]

Everything I've heard from reliable sources makes your series of guesses, particularly about total teraflops, impossible. Save for the DDR3 guess, which I'm worried might be true. Which would be incredibly stupid.

I would imagine they'll try to use DDR4. It would be more expensive but it would eventually become cheaper than DDR3 over the course of the console's life-cycle. Plus there are benefits, such as lower power consumption, when going with DDR4.

That wouldn't really do much to solve the bandwidth problem though...

Is DDR3 really going to be a problem, even with maybe a large eSRAM pool?

Depends what they plan to use the eSRAM for. For example, the eDRAM in the 360 does nothing to help texture bandwidth directly, though it does free up some bandwidth to use for texturing.

It'll be interesting to see how much they put in the system and how they tackle the bandwidth issue.

 

[Karak]

Edited: The illumiroom video clears things up. So where does the light come from? The TV? Or some sort of box in the center of the room? Because how would it get around obstructions if it was from the TV or console?

The word is that there will be a couple ways to do it. That video was a behind the seat projector.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I don't understand this. The Xbox 361 sounds like imagination, and somehow all of a sudden there's like a generational gap between the PS3 and 360 in the year 2013. Just like that.

What's up with the hostility? He gets easily excited, but he's not full of BS. He has his theories, just like everybody else.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62038 On the following slide under 2012 is the Xbox 361 and the features.

On the following slide bottom right is why the Xbox 360 was thought by Microsoft to not meet the needs of XTV coming in 2013. No true 1080P.....The PS3 can do bullet point 2, 3 (except for HDMI pass-thru not needed with RVU except for the TV the DVR box is attached to which is generally the living room TV ) & 5, as a result there is not as much pressure on Sony to have the PS4 ready to support XTV which is coming SOON.

The following slide speculates the PS4 will support XTV (HDMI pass-through) using Google TV and Microsoft will do something similar with Bing and also with HDMI pass-through.

A overview of features stressing again, 1080P and full 3D to support XTV and video streaming apps as well as Xbox Live. ATSC 2.0 will go candidate status March 2013 and OTA 1080P and 3D will be possible. Only recent Smart TVs, the PS3 and some blu-ray players and set top boxes will allow you to view this. The Xbox 360 can not do this!

As far as playing games there is little difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360 but for 1080P - XTV - true native 3D. Microsoft took shortcuts to reduce the price of the Xbox 360 that Sony thought necessary.

The Gigbit network port in the PS3 for instance is only going to be necessary in worst case multiple video stream situations that can occur in a home network with several different TVs all RVU streaming video from a DVR box or tuner head end, the Xbox 360 has a 100mbit not 1000mbit lan port. In hindsight we can see the PS3 design was more expensive for a reason.

 

[SniperHunter]

Thank you Microsoft for delivery an actual next gen system. Looking forward to seeing all the new IP's, the next exclusive from Epic and Ryse!

 

[Can Crusher]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62038 On the following slide under 2012 is the Xbox 361 and the features.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s372/Rotmm/Slide48.jpg[/IMG

On the following slide bottom right is why the Xbox 360 was thought by Microsoft to not meet the needs of XTV coming in 2013. No true 1080P.....The PS3 can do bullet point 2, 3 (except for HDMI pass-thru not needed with RVU except for the TV the DVR box is attached to which is generally the living room TV ) & 5, as a result there is not as much pressure on Sony to have the PS4 ready to support XTV which is coming SOON.

[IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s372/Rotmm/Slide4.jpg[/IMG

The following slide speculates the PS4 will support XTV (HDMI pass-through) using Google TV and Microsoft will do something similar with Bing and also with HDMI pass-through.

[IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s372/Rotmm/Slide7.jpg[/IMG

A overview of features stressing again, 1080P and full 3D to support XTV and video streaming apps as well as Xbox Live.

[IMG]http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s372/Rotmm/Slide8.jpg[/IMG

As far as playing games there is little difference between the PS3 and Xbox 360 but for 1080P - XTV - true native 3D. Microsoft took shortcuts to reduce the price of the Xbox 360 that Sony thought necessary.

The Gigbit network port in the PS3 for instance is only going to be necessary in worst case multiple video stream situations that can occur in a home network with several different TVs all RVU streaming video from a DVR box or tuner head end, the Xbox 360 has a 100mbit not 1000mbit lan port. In hindsight we can see the PS3 design was more expensive for a reason.[/QUOTE]

I see where you are coming from. So basically an Xbox 360 Slim kind of thing. Not exactly a project that was meant to have core silicon changes.

Doesn't change the plan much. I certainly hope that 6x 360 is an old benchmark they were going for.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

I see where you are coming from. So basically an Xbox 360 Slim kind of thing. Not exactly a project that was meant to have core silicon changes.

Doesn't change the plan much. I certainly hope that 6x 360 is an old benchmark they were going for.

Actually, the Xbox 360 Slim model has a pretty big silicon change compared to previous 360 models. The 360S, codename Valhalla, houses the CPU die, GPU die and possibly the eDRAM die on a single package. That's a huge difference and if I'm not mistakes, one of the first of its kind.

 

[Can Crusher]

Actually, the Xbox 360 Slim model has a pretty big silicon change compared to previous 360 models. The 360S, codename Valhalla, houses the CPU die, GPU die and possibly the eDRAM die on a single package. That's a huge difference and if I'm not mistakes, one of the first of its kind.

Well I'm talking about more power.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Well I'm talking about more power.

The Xbox 360S "SoC" is also restrained, power wise. They're actually more capable than standard 360 chips.

 

[Can Crusher]

The Xbox 360S "SoC" is also restrained, power wise. They're actually more capable than standard 360 chips.

Look man, don't mess with my head!

 

[derFeef]

The Xbox 360S "SoC" is also restrained, power wise. They're actually more capable than standard 360 chips.

Nextbox reveal "here is an update, your 360 is now much more powerful".

 

[Karak]

Nextbox reveal "here is an update, your 360 is now much more powerful".

MINDBLOWN!

 

[jbug617]

Could the Xbox 361 be the rumor Verge had a couple months back of a Microsoft version of Apple TV. It would mostly be used for streaming media and you can download some games.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/21/3674802/xbox-tv-set-top-box-casual-gaming-streaming-2013

 

[Syphon Filter]

Could the Xbox 361 be the rumor Verge had a couple months back of a Microsoft version of Apple TV. It would mostly be used for streaming media and you can download some games.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/21/3674802/xbox-tv-set-top-box-casual-gaming-streaming-2013

what makes you think that 361 is actually real.

 

[KageMaru]

Doesn't change the plan much. I certainly hope that 6x 360 is an old benchmark they were going for.

It is. That PPT file was created by a marketing group, not by engineers or anyone that would actually be designing the console.

Look man, don't mess with my head!

This is what he's talking about:

Stokes noted that Microsoft engineers apparently did "a lot" of the layout themselves, which predictably presented more than "a few" interesting challenges.

"[For example], it would have been easier and more natural to just connect the CPU and GPU with a high-bandwidth, low-latency internal connection, but that would have made the new SoC faster in some respects than the older systems.

"So they had to introduce this separate module onto the chip that could actually add latency between the CPU and GPU blocks and generally behave like an off-die FSB."

http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/51228-microsoft-details-new-xbox-360-soc

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Could the Xbox 361 be the rumor Verge had a couple months back of a Microsoft version of Apple TV. It would mostly be used for streaming media and you can download some games.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/21/3674802/xbox-tv-set-top-box-casual-gaming-streaming-2013

here's my theory on the "second" xbox.

Microsoft, when designing the new platform decided to have a dedicated chip for the os. The reason would be to allow an expansion of live services, backround downloading, no more leaving games to access the store, just pause and download, etc. (plus developers would love not having to deal with the overhead of the OS). This hardware was contracted out to a seperate firm then their "major" console deal with AMD. It was leaked, and a rumor started about it being a second set-top xbox. The scalability of it likely means that it's arm based (using the windows 8 arm os) and it's a chip designed so that they plan to use on tablets as well, with a core feature being the ability to stream, or use it in conjunction with the new xbox (like the smartglass stuff but far more intergration). This would allow for an xbox based tablet device(like a wii-u controller) to be released at a later date to inject sales into the console (similar to the kinect strategy), and since the design is already there, they would just wait for manufacturing costs to fall enough so it would be profitable.

 

[dragonelite]

The Xbox 360S "SoC" is also restrained, power wise. They're actually more capable than standard 360 chips.

You are actually right.
Because it is a soc they had to artificially limit the memory bandwidth so devs wouldn't abuse it. Atleast that is the story i heard

 

[grimshawish]

here's my theory on the "second" xbox.

Microsoft, when designing the new platform decided to have a dedicated chip for the os. The reason would be to allow an expansion of live services, backround downloading, no more leaving games to access the store, just pause and download, etc. (plus developers would love not having to deal with the overhead of the OS). This hardware was contracted out to a seperate firm then their "major" console deal with AMD. It was leaked, and a rumor started about it being a second set-top xbox. The scalability of it likely means that it's arm based and it's a chip designed so that they plan to use on tablets as well, with a core feature being the ability to stream, or use it in conjunction with the new xbox (like the smartglass stuff but far more intergration). This would allow for an xbox based tablet device(like a wii-u controller) to be released at a later date to inject sales into the console (similar to the kinect strategy), and since the design is already there, they would just wait for manufacturing costs to fall enough so it would be profitable.

Really good suggestion. Basically thats all that would connect the first and second SKU; which means (if MS are sensible) it might not even be given what could be considered 'confusing branding'.

A Windows TV type born from the Xbox; will this come with the rumoured Xbox Surface?
One thing that strikes me is that MS could license this out; allowing TVs to build them in as well as other boxes.

This would actually be a good move and really fits the logic of the 720 being built based on Windows. If anything this allows MS to really properly move with tech away from the desktop where I feel Windows 8 has been a big failure.


In my head I'd had them developing two separate products just branding one 720.
This would also allow them to push the 720 tech forwards, they have other products to expand Xbox outside of pure gaming so their probably less price sensitive about it.

 

[eso76]

Everything I've heard from reliable sources makes your series of guesses, particularly about total teraflops, impossible. Save for the DDR3 guess, which I'm worried might be true. Which would be incredibly stupid.

So 2/2.5 tf ? ^_^

 

[jmood88]

Quoting first post:


I know we want to know every bit and detail about the power of what Microsoft and Sony's next consoles will hold, but what about the element of surprise? Why not just wait until E3? Why does everything these days have to be spoiled and leaked? Let a real megaton E3 actually happen like older years, guys. Let a real event take place that gets everyone excited for once.
Would be anti-climatic to announce at a smaller event when the release is not even close. If true, this guy really shouldn't be holding them at ransom like this.

Doing this (rushing announcement) isn't going to make the console any more or less powerful. We're going to have it shown to us this year and then released this year more than likely. If it's a few months later and reserved for the big event, then so be it. It won't change the release date either.

It's a game console, not a movie or book. There's nothing to "spoil".