demigod
Member
Nope, MS thought they were unstoppable.
Word so far is 11 TFlops
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
Nope, MS thought they were unstoppable.
Word so far is 11 TFlops
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm not convinced about that Marcus guy claiming dev kits have been in third party hands since early this year but do think some devs are at least working on games to a fairly specific spec.
I think we might get a new DF article in the next week or so. I notice that Richard Leadbetter hasn't done a game analysis video for over a week now and wonder if he has been to GDC? He did promise another article/video about next-gen
a few weeks ago and if he's been to GDC then he could have some juicy info to work off of..... ?
Last edited:
JLMC469
Banned
Dev kits are usually stronger right?
Ar¢tos
Member
They usually have more memory to run debugging sw, but AFAIK they have the same main hardware (final dev kits, early dev kits are just normal PCs of aproximate target specs).
Last edited:
JLMC469
Banned
Thanks for the info!
Armorian
Banned
Devkits at this stage ar probably just pc parts, Vega 56 for example. Final console can be straonger than what devs have right now. Reverse scenario is possible too, first MGS4 trailer was running on 7800GTX, card with 2x memory bus compared to RSX.
rokkerkory
Member
11 TF? AWESOME 
Codes 208
Member
Not much, right now a possible 11tflop rumor. But thqt aside mainly just list wars of either 2019 or 2020 release, people complaing that 6 years is too short (WHICH ITS NOT) and misterxmedia2.0 trying to convince us that a 20+tflop machine with a larger ssd memory for $399-$499 is a realistic expectation for a 2020 release.
So the usual
Last edited:
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Codes 208
Member
Teraflop. A flop is an acronym for floating point operations per second
And is the general criteria of measuring the performance of a pc or pc-related electronics. For example: the switch is about 600GFlops (gigaflop), the xbox one is 1.32tflops, the ps4 is 1.8tflops so the switch is just under 1/2 the strength of an xbox one and about 1/3 the strength of a ps4.
The xbox one x being 6tflops means its around 4.5x stronger than the xbox one and so on
Last edited:
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Thank you.
Also, the Switch is a little weaker than I thought, that's disappointing, but since I only care about Nintendo's own games it doesn't matter a whole lot to me but I feel people are maybe getting ahead of themselves when expecting so many third party ports.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Not accurate with regards to the Switch. It is ~393Gigaflops when docked. ~157Gigaflops undocked.
mitchman
Gold Member
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-resolution-201312153517.htm
The results are now in, and an overwhelming majority of participants correctly identified the 4K TV, indicating that there exists a perceptible difference even from as far as 9 feet away on a 55in screen.
There are some BS charts floating around not based on actual human testing, don't take their results are face value.
TLZ
Banned
The Switch is more like less than 1/3 of the Xbox One at no more than 400gflops.
AnimalFather
Banned
rule of thumb think 399 price point and the lowest specs possble for near 4k 60fps
Last edited:
TLZ
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think to be fair you need to read the whole article. The stand out TV to the participants was the 1080P LG OLED because of its superior blacks/contrast. The article writer even admits other non-resolution factors are more important for example. They even say they have no idea how the participants came to their conclusions in the blind test (which seems odd!).
As an aside in the second shot down of the two Samsung TVs used the 1080P one has sharper text on my screen!
The main takeaway for me though is this was arguably an "advert" to help sell 4K to a skeptical market given the 2013 date....
Silent Viper
Banned
No chance in hell. It's full reset when it comes to ps5
THE:MILKMAN
Member
It is a big question mark for me right now. On paper it should be infinitely easier to achieve this time over PS3-PS4 but Sony also customise to a greater extent than some realise I think?
Thing is when I try and point these things out the anger from some that assume BC is virtually automatic due to the tech being "standard" PC (not necessarily on this forum) is pretty full on.
This is why I wait for Richard Leadbetter's next next-gen article because he, like you, seems to be under the impression PS5 will be a full reset. Some don't seem to rate his opinion, though.
Last edited:
Armorian
Banned
There is 99% chance that it will have PS4 BC. PS3 is immposible to emulate and Sony just don't give a shit about older consoles (aside from titles on PSN with trophy support) + they don't have working CD drive so PSX and partialy PS2 emulation is out of the window. They don't have any excuse to not BC with PS4, unsless they put ARM processor in the console or some shit (switch to Nvidia, lol),
Last edited:
PS3 was a full reset, but it was compatible with PS1 and PS2 titles... PS Vita and PSP were too... Xbox One and Xbox 360 were full reset too and supported BC. Iterative cross generation forever “but it is so cool to always have the latest more often even though it has less and less meaning each year, check out iPhone for an example of that
” is another thing altogether.
Insane Metal
Member
And 24GB RAM. But that hardware is completely not final, so...
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Of course they have an excuse, just like they do now by not allowing PS1 and PS2 playback. It's called soaking up as much revenue as they can. Sony has been doing everything in their power to be walled off this entire generation in its desire to be profitable after last generation and I expect that trend to continue as long as they remain top of the charts.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Have you heard about some specifics then Insane Metal?
Insane Metal
Member
Last edited:
Tarin02543
Member
Will it be 64 bit?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Sony pretty much have to do PS4 BC on PS5. Microsoft almost certainly will for one. Also with the ever increasing proportion of digital sales, you can’t keep expecting people to right off their library every 6+ years.
Only question is how competent are Sony at pulling it off.
Only question is how competent are Sony at pulling it off.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Damn it! I thought a crack in the floodgates appeared....
Insane Metal
Member
Lol
The only confirmation I have is that these devkits are real and I know of at least one third party dev who's got their hands on it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Lol
The only confirmation I have is that these devkits are real and I know of at least one third party dev who's got their hands on it.
Well if that is legit then late 2019 is a lock as there is no way a third party would have a dev kit this early if 2020. Surely only a matter of weeks before solid info leaks.
Edit: I still contend Ready at Dawn are the one third party that have a mysterious unannounced game that would perfectly fit being a PS5 launch/cross gen game.
Last edited:
Toe-Knee
Member
Well they've managed it on every console other than the ps4 and ps1 for obvious reasons.
I personally would prefer a complete clean break.
I like things to be seperate and I like to move forward without hanging into the past on new systems.
I have old systems for old games. I've kept every console I've ever owned bar the sega saturn which is the only one that I would actually use these days ironically.
Armorian
Banned
They are assholes for locking down PS2 DVD emulation and PSX titles from PSN, that's for sure - only (weak) excuse they have is lack of trophy support for those titles. PS4 BC will allow PS5 users to spend more money on PSN around console launch when native software support will be lacking. There are only benefits for them to have BC.
Ar¢tos
Member
Not only BC, there is a chance of having Ps4 titles running natively on Ps5 via patches if they use the same architecture, but i'm sure only a few 1st party devs will bother with that (if any) and as an exercise to get to know Ps5 hardware better, like ND did with TLOU remaster. This would remove the need for a re-release of a Ps5 version and keep sales of those Ps4 games going.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Right, but they have mainly done it in the past by including the old hardware. Or by brute force emulation with the native hardware being much more powerful, making the job easier. They won't have those options with the PS5 and a more sophisticated method will be required. Sticking with x86 will make the job easier but I bet it will still not be easy to achieve 100% flawless compatibility. Sony hardly have a great history when it comes to the system software side of things so we will see.
I think most people want to just play new shiny games on new hardware. But again with the rise of digital it's a big ask to just expect people to right off their purchases. 'Keep your old console' isn't good enough either. Consumers have expectations these days and when things just work on most other devices, consoles need to do the same.
Toe-Knee
Member
I get that completely but if you look at most things that have almost complete compatability like phones there hasn't really been any massive jumps for quite some time now it's just small iteration to keep compatability. Sometimes you need to just wipe the slate clean to get a big boost.
It will definitely be interesting seeing what happens.
But the cost to include a jaguar will be pretty small especially as it could be used as the coprocessor for minor physics etc and rest now functions.
On the other hand Mark Cerny had been filling loads of patents specifically about backwards compatability using different hardware so there should be at least basic compatability.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Tbh I'm not sure how easy compatibility would be even if they just change the cpu, like going with Zen. Which is why I'm not unconvinced they will just keep iterating on the existing hardware/redo the PS4 Pro "mirrored approach" but with an actual upgrade in RAM. ie just squeeze more out of Jaguar on 7nm, double the GPU compute units from 36 to 72, and go to 16 or 20GB or RAM. That would make maintaining backward compatibility easier and might make hitting $399 possible.
Ar¢tos
Member
When ps3 games went to psnow, sony said they have a Ps3 emulator, but because of the processing power required, it was cheaper to have ps3 farms doing the streaming. If they managed to create a ps3 emulator (and there is also RPCS3), they won't have much issue creating a ps4 emulator for the ps5 if both use x86 architecture.
Toe-Knee
Member
Everyone said that about the one x too.
JLMC469
Banned
To be fair, the X (like the Pro) aren't a new generation of consoles. More like "mid gen" upgrades.
Toe-Knee
Member
Oh I know it's just loads we're convinced it should have Ryzen.
Armorian
Banned
In a way Xbox One X is emulating orginal console with completly different GPU (GCN 1.0 vs 1.3, PS4 is similar to 1.1) and memory setup (one pool of GDDR5 vs mix of DDR3 and SRAM), even CPU is not 100% the same (changes in cache memory). They just need to adjust emulator to match speed of orginal machine (I guess Pro will be the target) as default and allow performance mode for those who want it - could produce issues like Boost mode on Pro.
Everyone wanted it but it woudn't have much sense in Pro and X.
Last edited:
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
To be clear I'm 10% sure they go with Jaguar and 90% sure they go with Zen. But I wouldn't write it off completely. Xbox One X has a 2.3GHz Jaguar paired with a 6TFlop GPU. So it wouldn't be inconceivable to pair a 2.5-2.6GHZ Jaguar with a ~10Flop GPU. Assuming they can hit get more out of Jag on 7nm.
It would probably keep cost down and almost certainly make backwards compatibility a guarantee.
It would probably keep cost down and almost certainly make backwards compatibility a guarantee.
Armorian
Banned
It's old design, Zen is current architecture and you know it will get all die shrinks possible, it will be cheaper at some point. For example Cell and/or RSX stopped at some point and didn't go further.
Last edited:
Klik
Member
Even in January/February 2013(just 4 months before Sony's reveal)there was a solid fact that ps4 would use 4 Bulldozer cores at 2.7ghz. Well we all know how that turned out. The point is that it's hard to believe any rumour especially 2 years before release.
Honestly the thread should be locked because we have nothing here except somone told that third party developers got their hand on PS5 Devkit. Release could even be in 2021 ,maybe Sony is just testing out first devkits to get some feedback.
Honestly the thread should be locked because we have nothing here except somone told that third party developers got their hand on PS5 Devkit. Release could even be in 2021 ,maybe Sony is just testing out first devkits to get some feedback.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
I'm not sure comparison to cell is totally similar as it was a proprietary non-x86 design.
If it's a semi-custom AMD chip on the latest node(7nm) I'm not sure how Zen would gain cost effectiveness over Jaguar. They had Jaguar on 28nm consoles then 16nm consoles... Jaguar arch also takes up less die space than Zen if i remember correctly. Only question is can they extract much more performance out of it on 7nm to make it worthwhile.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I still think they will likely use zen.
Last edited:
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Is there really that much R&D involved in that though?..
MilkyJoe
Member
Why not when it takes multiple years to make a game. The things got to have launch titles.
Similar threads
- Poll