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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

Ironbunny

Member
I don’t understand their military strategy, they’re throwing themselves against the defense wall at bahkmut with massive losses, including the Wagner commander for Ukraine and meanwhile their defense line that had 3000 soldiers manning it at Lyman just fell and Ukraine liberated another chunk of Donetsk and gained access to critical cities like Svatove, Lsychank and Sverodonetsk.

Well theres still reports that Putin is ordering the military commanders himself and not trusting the ruZZian ministry of defense. ruZZia seems to have somewhat success in Bakhmut.

 

Majukun

Member
You come across like you're supporting a bunch of brutal cunts (the CCP in this case) though.

A think anyone who wants to be free of them and live a free and fair society should be allowed to. On their own land, not flee into exile.

And these regimes are always the biggest hypocrites. For example, the PRC claim that because Tibet was a backwards theocracy, that they came and made it better. By attacking them, forcing their young (and therefore open to change) leader to flee, and not giving them a chance. All while the CCP had been doing almost jack shit in WW2, leaving almost all the hard work and loss to the KMT (hardly saints, but they became the basis of Taiwan).

You see it with Russia too. They took Crimea, and sure they built the Kerch Straight bridge, but have they really improved the lives of Crimeans? No, and now they have brought war to the region. Or South Ossetia and Abkhazia. There they expelled ethnic Georgians and the places are utter dumps, especially South Ossetia. Tranistria is a clown show. Kaliningrad is shit for what and where it is too.
Do not care much how it comes across, have no particular sympathy for China but i can't help but seeing merits in their claims on the region,or at least it's not a clean cut situation,nothing like the russo-ukraine situation where we had an already long established and universally recognized country that got attacked because some russians think ukraine is still "their stuff"

If you believe people should be free to splinter from china if they wanna, same should apply to all the other groups in the world that claim independency from bigger entities, already made the example of the basque and catalogne region in spain...catalunia governor actually tried to claim independency from spain in 2017 and spain sent the military,treated them like traitors and imprisoned the ringleaders,should we also allow them to create their own country?
what if the so long "forgotten central states" in the US decide to secede, do we allow them because they wanna be free in their own land?

"we like spain so the catalunia claims should be ignored but you go Taiwan free yourself from big bully China" sounds, like you said, a bit hypocritical, regardless of how i feel about the nations involved.

and by all means i don't consider myself an expert,i live of what i read about the situation on the internet so it's completely possible i lack some detail that would swing me on the side of Taiwan from the "legal" point of view as well.

but that's outside the scope of this thread that is about the war, we derailed it way too much
 

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
Disgusting scenes this morning in Zaporizhzhia. The UN and other experts in this area, with Putin doing his sham annexation agree that this is a major escalation. I agree with that, this is now a turning point that this is a long term war and that is really sobering. I hope the Ukrainians can kick them out ASAP but I fear this will be a war of attrition now and could last for a long time or escalate to start bringing other countries in. Thankfully the west have vastly more resources and Russia have essentially “shot their load” in the early parts of this war. But they’re a wounded animal now and still capable of causing immense damage as shown again this morning.
 

Tams

Member
Do not care much how it comes across, have no particular sympathy for China but i can't help but seeing merits in their claims on the region,or at least it's not a clean cut situation,nothing like the russo-ukraine situation where we had an already long established and universally recognized country that got attacked because some russians think ukraine is still "their stuff"

If you believe people should be free to splinter from china if they wanna, same should apply to all the other groups in the world that claim independency from bigger entities, already made the example of the basque and catalogne region in spain...catalunia governor actually tried to claim independency from spain in 2017 and spain sent the military,treated them like traitors and imprisoned the ringleaders,should we also allow them to create their own country?
what if the so long "forgotten central states" in the US decide to secede, do we allow them because they wanna be free in their own land?

"we like spain so the catalunia claims should be ignored but you go Taiwan free yourself from big bully China" sounds, like you said, a bit hypocritical, regardless of how i feel about the nations involved.

and by all means i don't consider myself an expert,i live of what i read about the situation on the internet so it's completely possible i lack some detail that would swing me on the side of Taiwan from the "legal" point of view as well.

but that's outside the scope of this thread that is about the war, we derailed it way too much
Thankfully for the Taiwanese, you opinion means jack shit. Whether you like it or not, they have Western, democratic backing, even if it has to be kept quiet.

You seem to lack quite a lot of empathy. The people of Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang (Chinese Turkistan), and quite a few more have distinct cultures, don't want to be part of China and are persecuted by the PRC and CCP.

It seems it has to be absolutely black and white before you even start to care.

As for Catalonia. Well, if they had gone the legal route (and yes, it would have been a decades long political and public battle), then they'd have a chance. Instead, as already a well-established part of Spain, they illegally seceded without a free and fair referendum.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Apparently Lyman is now encircled, but the troops didn’t run they instead dug in.

Seems to me Putler said Lyman can not fall and so the army is doing the stupid thing again like in Kherson.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Do not care much how it comes across, have no particular sympathy for China but i can't help but seeing merits in their claims on the region,or at least it's not a clean cut situation,nothing like the russo-ukraine situation where we had an already long established and universally recognized country that got attacked because some russians think ukraine is still "their stuff"

If you believe people should be free to splinter from china if they wanna, same should apply to all the other groups in the world that claim independency from bigger entities, already made the example of the basque and catalogne region in spain...catalunia governor actually tried to claim independency from spain in 2017 and spain sent the military,treated them like traitors and imprisoned the ringleaders,should we also allow them to create their own country?
what if the so long "forgotten central states" in the US decide to secede, do we allow them because they wanna be free in their own land?

"we like spain so the catalunia claims should be ignored but you go Taiwan free yourself from big bully China" sounds, like you said, a bit hypocritical, regardless of how i feel about the nations involved.

and by all means i don't consider myself an expert,i live of what i read about the situation on the internet so it's completely possible i lack some detail that would swing me on the side of Taiwan from the "legal" point of view as well.

but that's outside the scope of this thread that is about the war, we derailed it way too much

No army was involved in Catalonia, they sent the national police since Catalonia has its own police controlled by the regional government.
 

winjer

Member

MOSCOW, Sept 29 (Reuters) - Russia said on Thursday it was studying the possibility of a face-to-face meeting between Russian and U.S. negotiators on a landmark nuclear arms control treaty.

In a briefing in Moscow, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said Russia was open to reviving inspections under the New START treaty and considering the possibility of in-person meetings of a joint commission of representatives from the United States and Russia.

Physical inspections under the treaty have been suspended since 2020, initially as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

"The topic of resuming them is being considered," Zakharova said on Thursday. "The possibilities for holding a face-to-face session of the bilateral advisory commission are being studied."

The treaty sets limits on the number of nuclear arms each side can have deployed, and outlines the terms for verification and inspection of each other's nuclear arsenals.

Moscow said in August it was considering a new meeting of the commission, as well as a possible resumption of negotiations to extend the treaty, one of the few major diplomatic agreements that remain in place between Moscow and Washington as relations hit rock-bottom over the conflict in Ukraine.

At this point I doubt Russia wants some serious negotiations, most probably they just want to throw around more threats.
 

ape2man

Member
You're a joke.

nuclear entity moving into it's borders and historical territory which acted as buffers during WW1 and WW2

Your the JOKE here.

It was never not even under the Soviet Union ( that does not exists anymore) THEIR territory. The Warsaw Pact was a Union, Ukraine and the other countries LEFT that UNION. It was never russian to begin with.
 
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ape2man

Member
While talking with my wife about your response (she's Ukrainian btw) we came to the conclusion that your probably right. Up until now both sides have been bombing the region and only one cares about it's people. Then what is, in your opinion, the reason why they always rush to annex territory. It can't be just to justify the "special operation" to all the propaganda believers.
Conscripts can only operate in russian territory.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member

Shocked Patrick Stewart GIF by reactionseditor
 

Nikodemos

Member
At this point I doubt Russia wants some serious negotiations, most probably they just want to throw around more threats.
It's more than likely one of their typical political kabuki pieces. Go in, demand some ridiculous bullshit, refuse to budge on any line, then walk away claiming that your counterparts are negotiating in bad faith. Amusingly predictable.
 

sinnergy

Member
It's more than likely one of their typical political kabuki pieces. Go in, demand some ridiculous bullshit, refuse to budge on any line, then walk away claiming that your counterparts are negotiating in bad faith. Amusingly predictable.
and claim that Russia is attacked , starts using chemical weapons and even more heavier weapons and maybe even tactical nukes .. he is bad shit insane . The road to WW3 will be red.
 
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Dr.D00p

Member
We'll know if Putin is ready to take the final step if he issues an ultimatum to Ukrainian forces to immediately leave these new 'Russian Territories' or face 'Extreme Measures' or something along those lines...if he does that, then all bets are off.
 
We'll know if Putin is ready to take the final step if he issues an ultimatum to Ukrainian forces to immediately leave these new 'Russian Territories' or face 'Extreme Measures' or something along those lines...if he does that, then all bets are off.
If he does, there is no going back for him, this will be to the bitter end. The Ruzzian has no military, no medicines, sanctioned, this is the collapse of the Ruzzian empire one way or another.
 

Lasha

Member
Thankfully for the Taiwanese, you opinion means jack shit. Whether you like it or not, they have Western, democratic backing, even if it has to be kept quiet.

You seem to lack quite a lot of empathy. The people of Hong Kong, Macau, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang (Chinese Turkistan), and quite a few more have distinct cultures, don't want to be part of China and are persecuted by the PRC and CCP.

It seems it has to be absolutely black and white before you even start to care.

As for Catalonia. Well, if they had gone the legal route (and yes, it would have been a decades long political and public battle), then they'd have a chance. Instead, as already a well-established part of Spain, they illegally seceded without a free and fair referendum.

Taiwan also has some nasty poison pills. Taiwanese defense strategy is to scuttle all advanced manufacturing capabilities in the mainland and Taiwan. An attack on Taiwan will mean that Shanghai gets levelled by the Taiwanese missile force. and semiconductor manufacturing for china becomes non existent.
 

sinnergy

Member
We'll know if Putin is ready to take the final step if he issues an ultimatum to Ukrainian forces to immediately leave these new 'Russian Territories' or face 'Extreme Measures' or something along those lines...if he does that, then all bets are off.
It’s not if he does that .. but when .
 
It’s not if he does that .. but when .
Indeed. It's the next step. Give them ultimatum to get out of the annexed regions or face the consequences. The day that ultimatum ends will possibly be the day WW3 starts imo. I'm betting end of october for his ultimatum.

He's not backing down, he's gone full Hitler now. I hoped he might get his forces back and declare some bullshit victory anyway, but he won't back down from this ever, that's clear now. Especially after that speech.
The pathetic Russian citizens are just watching this unfold and hardly doing anything about it. Fuck them too.

I wish I was living in some shitty Texas town where I would be a survivor of the war, sadly I live close to NATO headquarters :(
 
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DJ12

Member

Come to me baby.
In reality NATO won't let them join before this is over.

Would require NATO joining the defence. Although it would be fun to see Putins sphincter shrink instantly. I just don't see it happening.
 
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