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Sailor Moon Crystal |OT| In the name of the manga, I'll entertain you!

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MikeMyers

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I agree though, Zoe. IMO, Manga > 90s > Crystal (if I were to order those 3 only). But he did say he didn't like the original anime, so I can't imagine he will enjoy Crystal.. regardless of his manga opinion.
It's kind of hard to compare the manga to the 90s anime since they're structured so differently, but yeah, the anime versions of SuperS and Stars just didn't live up to their manga counterparts.

Kind of a shame since I really like the Dream arc, the Stars arc in the manga I have a few problems with but I still enjoyed it.
 

John Blade

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Hello everyone.

Did watch sailor moon when I was younger lad in Canada and was wondering which show should I watch and which DVD or Blu ray should I look for this series. I hear alot of bad thing from the recent Blu ray and was wondering what other North American release dvd should I look to right now.
 

MikeMyers

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Hello everyone.

Did watch sailor moon when I was younger lad in Canada and was wondering which show should I watch and which DVD or Blu ray should I look for this series. I hear alot of bad thing from the recent Blu ray and was wondering what other North American release dvd should I look to right now.
The 90s series and Crystal are completely different. The 90s series focuses more on character interactions/antics while Crystal follows the manga, which is more about the story. So depending on which you'd prefer, go with that.

Both anime are available on Hulu, but are you in Canada? I'm not sure if Canada has Hulu.
 

Ayumi

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Still kinda bummed the "90s anime" tab in the menu on the official site still isn't set up.. :<
Was hoping for some surprises, or love for the original anime.
 

Ayumi

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When do you start the PGSM watch?
No idea, December is pretty busy
oh look, the Steam sale just started, there goes all my money and time
but definitely before January. Not sure how frequently I'll be watching though.
 

Simply Sarah

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So who's ready for the inevitably negative payoff to the Shitennou still being around? Who knows what dull and disappointing way they'll be killed off!
 

Ayumi

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So who's ready for the inevitably negative payoff to the Shitennou still being around? Who knows what dull and disappointing way they'll be killed off!
Why don't you get an avatar? So hard to recognize people without avatars.. like 99% impossible. D:
 

Simply Sarah

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Why don't you get an avatar? So hard to recognize people without avatars.. like 99% impossible. D:
The honest and rather pathetic answer to that is that I am and have always been really really awful at picking out things to use as an avatar on boards. Like to the point of once having a moderator basically give me something and tell me "Here, you can use this." *coughs*
 

Ayumi

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The honest and rather pathetic answer to that is that I am and have always been really really awful at picking out things to use as an avatar on boards. Like to the point of once having a moderator basically give me something and tell me "Here, you can use this." *coughs*
Tell me what kind of fictional characters you like and I'll try to make something for you?
You don't have to feel obligated to wear it, of course.

There better be death in this next episode.
But but.... ************** ; ~ ;
 

Pluto

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So who's ready for the inevitably negative payoff to the Shitennou still being around? Who knows what dull and disappointing way they'll be killed off!
I still hope they're not getting killed and stay in a supporting role, it could also help to develop the inner sent a little bit more if they are paired up.

I feel it would be unfair to establish them as the guardians' former lovers mirroring the relationship between Serenity and Endymion and then killing them off. I also feel it would be out of character for Usagi not to save them, the show went out of its way to show that they are brainwashed like Mamoru is now and the silver crystal is too powerful, it's saving and reviving people left and right. I see no reason why Usagi wouldn't use it to save them, they are Beryl's/Metalia's victims too.
 

Ayumi

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So we no longer care about spoilers in this thread?

There are probably still people lurking/reading this thread who hasn't seen the original anime or read the manga.. :v

CC: @MikeMyers
 

Simply Sarah

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I still hope they're not getting killed and stay in a supporting role, it could also help to develop the inner sent a little bit more if they are paired up.

I feel it would be unfair to establish them as the guardians' former lovers mirroring the relationship between Serenity and Endymion and then killing them off. I also feel it would be out of character for Usagi not to save them, the show went out of its way to show that they are brainwashed like Mamoru is now and the silver crystal is too powerful, it's saving and reviving people left and right. I see no reason why Usagi wouldn't use it to save them, they are Beryl's/Metalia's victims too.
Quote put in spoilers just in case.

Edit: This...actually should also be in spoilers now that I think about it. This post is now officially a totally mess!
See, that would be interesting and different and could allow nice development of both sets of characters. And since this is Sailor Moon Crystal that almost certainly won't happen!

Also you have the fact that
the other senshi spend most of Black Moon AWOL
.
 

Simply Sarah

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But nothing you spoiler tagged is a spoiler, it's speculation based on things that already happened on the show.
Well, I didn't think so either, but Ayumi seemed to think so, leading me to take the ultra safe (If also ultra confused) option!

Edit: Upon further reflection, it may refer to my earlier post? If so, I only made the statement without a spoiler because it had been mentioned outside of spoilers several times previously without clear issue.
 

Ayumi

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No I was referring to Pluto's post, specifically this part:

I still hope they're not getting killed and stay in a supporting role, it could also help to develop the inner sent a little bit more if they are paired up.
Not trying to manage the thread, I'm genuinely wondering if we're allowed to spoil stuff in here. :3
 

Zoe

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I don't really see what's spoilerish about that post.

Manga-only spoilers (such as talking about what's supposed to happen at the end of 12) would be frowned upon, but many aspects of the overall story are general knowledge by now.
 

Pluto

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No I was referring to Pluto's post, specifically this part:

Not trying to manage the thread, I'm genuinely wondering if we're allowed to spoil stuff in here. :3
That ... wasn't a spoiler. Seriosuly, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I wasn't even the one who started that topic. Simply Sarah talked about them potentially dying and wondered how, I said I hope they don't, it was a minor discussion about their fate. The fate we don't know.

And quite frankly, the paranoia regarding potential spoilers is getting annoying and counterproductive, even if a minor spoiler is posted it's best to let it slide (or maybe write a PM), asking about it, quoting with added spoiler tags etc. is just calling attention to it when ignoring it will make it go unnoticed by people who don't know that whatever was posted was an actual spoiler.

Example:

Person A:
I hope when X happens, Y does this and that.

Person B:
OMG, you just spoiled X!!! *rage*

The problem is that Person A didn't spoil anything, someone not knowing what's going to happen could have interpreted it as speculation (because many people use "if" and "when" interchangeably even if they aren't) and probably wouldn't have paid much attention, Person B was the one actually spoiling people by confirming that X actually happens.

That's something we should always keep in mind when looking for spoilers, people who know things will see spoilers where people who don't know things just see people talking.
 

Simply Sarah

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That ... wasn't a spoiler. Seriosuly, I'm not sure what you're talking about, I wasn't even the one who started that topic. Simply Sarah talked about them potentially dying and wondered how, I said I hope they don't, it was a minor discussion about their fate. The fate we don't know.

And quite frankly, the paranoia regarding potential spoilers is getting annoying and counterproductive, even if a minor spoiler is posted it's best to let it slide (or maybe write a PM), asking about it, quoting with added spoiler tags etc. is just calling attention to it when ignoring it will make it go unnoticed by people who don't know that whatever was posted was an actual spoiler.

Example:

Person A:
I hope when X happens, Y does this and that.

Person B:
OMG, you just spoiled X!!! *rage*

The problem is that Person A didn't spoil anything, someone not knowing what's going to happen could have interpreted it as speculation (because many people use "if" and "when" interchangeably even if they aren't) and probably wouldn't have paid much attention, Person B was the one actually spoiling people by confirming that X actually happens.

That's something we should always keep in mind when looking for spoilers, people who know things will see spoilers where people who don't know things just see people talking.
Sailor Moon
is a series about a
schoolgirl
named
Usagi Tsukino
who discovers
she
can
transform
into
Sailor Moon
and then
fight bad guys
.

But seriously, I agree with what you're saying. Often time saying something is a spoiler is what makes it a spoiler whereas otherwise it would be whatever. That said, when you're familiar with the original sources of something then it can often become tricky to figure out when something is a spoiler or not, especially since you always can run into the really weird and loud people that pretty much think the nonsense sentence at the start of this post is "proper marking of spoilers" (I may be exaggerating slightly on this).
 

Ayumi

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Hey, I wasn't accusing you of wrongdoings, I was just asking if it was okay to post spoilers (since your post that I quoted did look like one since it could be implying it was going to happen.)

Sorry, I really didn't mean to upset anyone..
 

Simply Sarah

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Nah, I think it's just a case of spoilers as concept being a messy and sometimes confusing topic. Now, let's all make u-and that joke is too awful even for me.
 

Pluto

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Hey, I wasn't accusing you of wrongdoings, I was just asking if it was okay to post spoilers (since your post that I quoted did look like one since it could be implying it was going to happen.)

Sorry, I really didn't mean to upset anyone..
No, don't think what you wrote was upsetting, I was just confused and then started to talk about those things more generally, I did not mean to direct it at you specifically.
 

Curler

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Just realized that the next ep is on tonight! Guess I'll be watching that and the Korra finale tomorrow morning.
 

MikeMyers

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Don't pressure me, PGSM-Sensei, December is a very busy month. D:
Haha, it will be 2015 by the time I finish Sailor Stars. Might watch Goldfish Warning too.

So who's ready for the inevitably negative payoff to the Shitennou still being around? Who knows what dull and disappointing way they'll be killed off!
Maybe they'll actually develop personalities now?

So we no longer care about spoilers in this thread?

There are probably still people lurking/reading this thread who hasn't seen the original anime or read the manga.. :v

CC: @MikeMyers
Like Zoe says, Manga-only spoilers (such as talking about what's supposed to happen at the end of 12) would be frowned upon. That's it though.
 

MikeMyers

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That was...really a downer. I try to love Sailor Moon products as much as I can, but this episode really irked me.

Queen Beryl's death was a hugely important moment in the manga but this episode treated it as "let's get this out of the way quickly and move on to the next plot point."

The entire Shitennou storyline turned out to be pointless if this episode was their exit for this arc. If that was the route they were gonna pick I'd rather they just die against the Inner Senshi like in the manga.

Speaking of the Inner Senshi, they really keep getting nerfed here. I know the manga prioritizes Usagi's relationship with Mamoru over her friendships with the Inner Senshi, but I've read the manga multiple times and I know they got much better treatment from Takeuchi than they do here.

EDIT: Guess I'll wait to see what Zoe thinks, but damn, I don't even know if I'll watch Black Moon. Am sad. :(
 

Shard

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Sailor Moon Crystal Episode 12:

I think I have mentioned this before, but it bears repeating, for all of its faults, the first anime series handled the end of the first arc better then its manga counterpart. Granted part of that is because the anime was for some reason allowed to do things
(namely kill off the scouts)
that the manga could not. Still, we do get the fleshed out Queen Beryl and the Four Heavenly Kings and I guess I can appreciate that, at least in regards to Beryl. The Kings were just far more interesting characters in the first anime series and are what really held up Dark Kingdom as antagonists in that series. Here they are just kind of discarded quickly and pointlessly so we can get to the actual point of priority, Mamoru and Usagi's bad rendition of Romeo and Juliet. Yea, I think I am just going to go watch the last episodes from Sailor Moon season 1 again, so much more fulfilling then this.
 

evanmisha

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From the animation director that brought you episode 3

That was awful. Didn't like that it stole Venus' best scene in the arc, and didn't understand the bizarre anticlimax the shitennou storyline was apparently leading up to.
I know they'll have one more scene next episode, but it's fairly minor.
I never expected them to be a part of the final battle, but their
deaths
were so hilariously instant and the reactions so poorly animated that it really soured the whole thing. All that was accomplished was bringing their romance into canon. I'm gonna have a really difficult time trudging through the enemy general rivalries in the next 2 story arcs if they're equally anticlimactic.

With that said, if I had to pick 1 of acts 11-14 to give to this animation director, 12 would've been it. Not that 13 looks mindblowing from the preview or anything.

EDIT: Also, why is D-Point so damn bright? Between that and Metalia being so fuschia now it sort of tramples over how I saw this arc's climax in my head. Naoko's vision sure has changed a lot over the years
 

MikeMyers

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I'm gonna have a really difficult time trudging through the enemy general rivalries in the next 2 story arcs if they're equally anticlimactic.
Crystal is just covering R/Black Moon next, no confirmation on S/Infinite yet. But yeah, the Shitennou storyline was wasted here. I definitely prefer how the 90s anime and especially PGSM did it, since they had to time to develop personalities and each succeeding Shitennou member felt like a bigger threat than the previous.

As for Black Moon, I hope they do the Inner Senshi/Ayakashi Sisters rivalry justice. I loved how the 90's anime did it.
 
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Yeah. That wasn't good at all.

I understand we're in a cramped story space but Beryl and the Shintennou to just be dismissed like they meant nothing to story doesn't sit well with me at all.

How they go forward from after the next episode should be interesting. Do they introduce her as a teaser at the end of the episode or do they hold that for the opening of the next part?
 

Shard

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Crystal is just covering R/Black Moon next, no confirmation on S/Infinite yet. But yeah, the Shitennou storyline was wasted here. I definitely prefer how the 90s anime and especially PGSM did it, since they had to time to develop personalities and each succeeding Shitennou member felt like a bigger threat than the previous.

As for Black Moon, I hope they do the Inner Senshi/Ayakashi Sisters rivalry justice. I loved how the 90's anime did it.
I would not hold out hope.
 

evanmisha

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I honestly didn't have much of an issue with Crystal until just now. The budget can support smaller scale stories, though admittedly fights were a little on the dry side. A big climactic ending, though? With pace this tight, every episode passed off to the weakest link animation director suffers _immensely_. This is clearly being directed around the budget. Characters mostly stand around and shots are framed in such a way that minimum keyframes need be drawn. No amount of animation touch-ups (as extensive as they have been) can change the entire composition of a scene. It hurts the narrative, and that's a damn shame.

With that said, I really hope we get through to the end of the manga. I am really sick of seeing later arcs and specific plot threads shut out of adaptations. For better or worse, I'm in this for the long haul.
 

Zoe

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I'm only halfway through so far, but this is fucking bullshit. Fucking bullshit! Venus got robbed!
 

Zoe

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"I want to live with you!"
\kills self

The death of the generals was so bad. So bad.

Please let Black Moon get here. It has to be better than this.

Right?
 

Pluto

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I hate what they did with the Shitenou, they get their memories back and then they're instantly killed off ... why? Why keep them around just to kill them off like this, they get their memories back, want to help their master and *boom* dead. That was horrible and an awful way to treat those characters and the four guardian soldiers, *no, they're dead waaahh ... okay, let's get over it and help Sailor Moon save her love*, screw that!
I'm so pissed right now, if they are not revived this writers can fuck off. Why even introduce their love story if it doesn't really affect the guardians and the reactions to the deaths are brushed aside? It's like they wanted to tell the story because Naoko mentioned it in the notes of the first art book but at the same time they want to stick to the manga.

You can't have it both ways writers, if you make changes commit to the things you change. The inner/shitenou love story was told in Crystal and that means they have to deal with it and its fallout in a believable way. Kill them, fine, but then allow the characters to react to that, don't immediately return to what they did in the manga, it makes no sense because in the manga they didn't watch their former lovers being murdered after they managed to restore their true selfs.
 

goldenpp72

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Mamoru's one look soo nice. They come as a set too.
Thank god it's cheap, because I'm gonna pre-order.

http://p-bandai.jp/sun-star-st/item-1000095096/?rt=pr

Edit: So they're pen that extend.. what are they used for? To point out villains?
How would one go about ordering these if they live in America? Also are those other sailor moon pens on the site releasing near them? I can't read Japanese and for some reason it won't translate but I know someone who would adore these.
 

Mr_Zombie

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So episode 12... I have mixed feelings.

I agree that small budged really hurts this anime. I think some battle scenes were a lot better in previous episodes than they were here; they were more dynamic and felt more brutal and epic. Here, most action scenes were pretty static with very few elements being animated. Lame :/

Beryl's death felt off, but I just checked and it was also as unsatisfying in the manga, so not much was lost. The difference, though, was that in the manga she was pierced by the sword, while here they just destroyed her necklace. Oh, and Venus indeed was robbed of her great scene. Why did they do that? They were already building her up as the leader of Princess' guardians in previous episodes only to what? Give Sailor Moon something important to do other than crying about Mamo-chan?

One thing I noticed is that in the manga Beryl explains how she found Metaria. Weird that this was cut off, especially since this episode should focus on Queen Metaria.

Death of the Shitenou -- I liked that. Yes, it was abrupt (my reaction was similar to Sailor Scouts: "What? No. No way") but: 1. it's still better than the manga, where they had very little backstory and were blank as hell; at least here they were given some depth 2. it showed Queen Metaria's power and brutality (she just quickly wiped them off with a single blast). However, I wish all those Sailor Scouts vs the generals scenes (along with them remembering the past and their death) were given more time, because it all felt really rushed. Generals' death, girls mourning them and then returning to their mission - it all happened within about a minute.
 

Simply Sarah

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Welp, that happened. Awful animation even for Crystal (My my, Mamoru, what stretchy arms you have!), taking a fairly important scene for Minako and giving it to Usagi, forgetting Motoki exists, and, of course, the way they handle to Shitennou (See? See? Negative payoff~). Another thing is, since Usagi ends up facing Mamoru alone, we end up with him being much more violent towards her and I'm not sure what my thoughts are on that. For one, it make Usagi seem more pathetic and helpless than she really should be here.

Overall, I may wait to see how Dark Kingdom finishes up and then the start of Black Moon, although my hopes aren't very high.

As an aside to Shard,
the implication in the manga is that the senshi except Usagi are, in fact, killed in the final battle.
 
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