(Sales Age) Earnings time again (Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, UBI)

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Private Hoffman said:
If the PS4 is priced reasonably, it'll have a lot more momentum at launch than the PS3 did.

Have a better software lineup for launch and they'll be fine.
Just so we're all clear, this is the new stance? No more "Year of the PS3" or "X game will save the PS3?" You're throwing in the towel on the PS3 and the new line is "just wait for the PS4?"
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Private Hoffman said:
The strategy is pretty simple, honestly. There's no need to force down a new format. By the time the PS4 rolls around Blu-Ray will be hitting its stride and likely overtaking DVD sales.

Make it more powerful, keep the blu-ray drive in the system, make it fully backwards compatible. Launch it at $400 instead of $600. Have a better software lineup for launch and they'll be fine.
So in other words if Sony does everything right with the PS4 instead of everything wrong, they'll get better results? Holy shit!
 
AyuFanatic86 said:
Yeah, because Sony told you to want it. Seriously, you - did not want - BluRay. Not within the PS3, at least.
Sony didn't tell anybody. Like any other company, they implement features in their products. If you, the consumer want it, you pay for it. People chose to pay for it, thus they chose to pay for the feature.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
womfalcs3 said:
Sony didn't tell anybody. Like any other company, they implement features in their products. If you, the consumer want it, you pay for it. People chose to pay for it, thus they chose to pay for the feature.
In the 21st century companies have developed an advanced technology called "advertising" where they attempt to influence consumer purchasing decisions, even trying to create demand for a product where no latent demand exists amongst the consumer base!

It's a brave new world!
 
Stumpokapow said:
In the 21st century companies have developed an advanced technology called "advertising" where they attempt to influence consumer purchasing decisions, even trying to create demand for a product where no latent demand exists amongst the consumer base!

It's a brave new world!
It's ultimately up to the consumer. We make the choice to spend our money. When people refer to Sony forcing blu-ray on people... it's not like they have a gun to your head forcing you to buy into it.

You make the decision.
 
Psychotext said:
Updated with Sony and Nintendo 3rd Quarter earnings.

Sony: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/08q3_sony.pdf
Nintendo: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2009/090129e.pdf

Code:
	  Sony		    Nintendo	     Microsoft	       Industry

Y/E 09Q1      $51,113,208   $1,124,452,830      $178,000,000    $1,353,566,038
Y/E 09Q2    -$379,471,154   $1,278,759,615      $151,000,000    $1,050,288,462
Y/E 09Q3       $4,395,604   $2,737,879,121                              				

[/QUOTE]

So I'm not following this chart.  For Nintendo Q1 [I]through[/I] Q3 they report 213b Yen which should be something like $2.4b.

Anyway your Q1-Q3 for Nintendo add up to more than they project to make for the year.  What am I missing?
 
Fuzzy said:
I wish Nintendo gave separate GB and GBC numbers. :(
Me too. Best I've got is that since GBC launched between these two dates, the original GB number must be greater than the first shown here. And since they probably transitioned to GBC pretty quickly, I'd guess it's less than the second.


EDIT: So since I'm not seeing official threads about different companies' results, would this combined thread be the best place to unload the hardware graphs?
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Me too. Best I've got is that since GBC launched between these two dates, the original GB number must be greater than the first shown here. And since they probably transitioned to GBC pretty quickly, I'd guess it's less than the second.
I remember an ancient shipment figure that had GBC @ ~49m. It came from brosh/ioi, but it was well before his "adjustment" hijinks, back when he used to post leaked shipment figures.

More interesting would be the GB to GBPocket ratio imo. That's really more the dividing point for GB's Pokéfueled rebirth and 2nd lifespan.
 
womfalcs3 said:
Sony didn't tell anybody. Like any other company, they implement features in their products. If you, the consumer want it, you pay for it. People chose to pay for it, thus they chose to pay for the feature.
Eh. I remember when they announced details of the PS3, including the whole Blu-Ray thing, and pretty much everyone was like, "What, we're suddenly unhappy with DVD?" They tried to manufacture demand for a product which had no inherent demand in the first place; there was no latent or internal demand within consumers for Blu-Ray, but they figured everyone would be such muppets that they'd buy into the concept anyway thanks to the PlayStation line's popularity. Where DVD helped the PS2's success, Blu-Ray simply made the PS3 less appealing on a mainstream level.

Obviously they didn't predict the market very well.
 
I think the days of competitive hardware for Sony are over, they're going to go for a low price and day 1 profit of the PS3. It's probably going to more of an upgrade than GCN -> Wii, but don't expect anything other out of the oridinary. PS4 won't have the investment, the confidence, PS3 had. Simply put they'll have to create something competitve with less money for R&D, and they can't take a hit like they did with the PS3. Hell if Sony knew that the PS3 would be selling like this, I doubt they'd have invested so much in the first place.

Sony also has to rebrand and relaunch the PSP2, they're going to have to work on two whole platforms. I think a lot of people will be dissappointed with whatever they deliver with the PS4 hardwarewise.


If anyone will push hardware next-gen, it will be MS. Their platforms are too dependant on PC multiplats, and the general strategy of XBox/Windows gaming will force them to make more top of the line hardware. But this doesn't in anyway mean they won't be aiming for a more profitable platform than the previous gens, or that they aren't going to aim for a more accessible price anymore.
 
womfalcs3 said:
Sony didn't tell anybody. Like any other company, they implement features in their products. If you, the consumer want it, you pay for it. People chose to pay for it, thus they chose to pay for the feature.
They didn't provide what the consumer wanted, therefore failed. If they create hardware to boost their egos, rather to give people what they want they're doing something WRONG.
 
lowlylowlycook said:
So I'm not following this chart. For Nintendo Q1 through Q3 they report 213b Yen which should be something like $2.4b.

Anyway your Q1-Q3 for Nintendo add up to more than they project to make for the year. What am I missing?
You're looking at profit rather than operating income.
 
lowlylowlycook said:
At this rate the PS3 is going to start to really dig deep into PS1 profits over the next couple years.

Can Sony really contemplate the PS4? Can they come up with a new strategy so this doesn't happen again?
Say what? They posted a profit this quarter for the game division, despite the strong yen and the reduced sales. So in FY07 they posted a ~$2 billion loss; in FY08 they posted a ~$1 billion loss; in FY09 they will probably post a ~$500 million loss. It ain't pretty, but the trend is upward, not downward.

The likeliest prediction is that over the next couple years they'll start to earn back some of that PS2 money they lost, not eat further back into their history of profit. (Not that such language is really justified in any case.)
 
Liabe Brave said:
Say what? They posted a profit this quarter for the game division, despite the strong yen and the reduced sales. So in FY07 they posted a ~$2 billion loss; in FY08 they posted a ~$1 billion loss; in FY09 they will probably post a ~$500 million loss. It ain't pretty, but the trend is upward, not downward.

The likeliest prediction is that over the next couple years they'll start to earn back some of that PS2 money they lost, not eat further back into their history of profit. (Not that such language is really justified in any case.)
The latest,Q3, results are worse than last year. I think the problem for Sony is that MS is going to continue to apply strong pressure for price cuts making it harder for Sony to move to profitability unless the Yen gives back some of it's gains. Also the PSP and PS2 should continue to fade.

The PS3 isn't on a sales trajectory like that its predecessors, so I see no particular reason to expect that the earnings should follow past performance either.

Eventually, you are right, it should be able to return to some kind of profitability. I just think conditions are such that this will be delayed for quite some time.
 
Psychotext said:
You're looking at profit rather than operating income.
Thanks for the charts. Is there a particular reason why you're using operating income instead of net income for Nintendo? For both Microsoft and Sony, you're using net income, right?
 
Azelover said:
The PS4 will not sell as well as the PS3.

This is incredibly difficult to explain in human terms, but I will try and maybe someone who should will understand it. The model for the NES/N64--->SNES/Gamecube is being utilized by Sony now, but it's not something they've done historically here. When they first came into the market they used something that would translate to a reversed process compared to what they're using now. But since Nintendo's power vastly declined from repeating the same map moving into the N64/Gamecube combo, they figured they'd try the other way and thus try to achieve market purity once again, and retain power. Ironically that resulted in an even bigger slump because it didn't really play to their strength.

Nintendo is for the third time in a row doing the tried and true, the Wii is basically NES3 fueled up, and as a result you'll also see SNES3 fueled up to the same degree, because true generations include two succeeding individuals, not one. PS3's path is included in a larger process, true generations only form in pairs, the PS4 is gonna be part of this same PS3 wavelength until PS5-6 start(or whatever else they call it, I think they'll sacrifice the name). To the PS3, the PS4 will trend more like the PSone as it compared to the PS2. Slower start and increasing sales to a peak around the very end of the cycle probably, compared to the PS3 which will probably begin grinding to a halt after last year's(or this year's) peak. Nevertheless PS3's total sales will finish higher than PS4's.
You might be able to look at similar situations from the previous consoles generations, and by looking at this, then you might be 100% correct about how things will turn out for the PS3, but personally i think it is too early to say too much about how the PS4 will sell because we bascily know nothing about how the PS4 will be.

As long as there is a product on the market that people are interested in and as long as the price is within a massmarket range, then i dont think it matters too much on how the previous product in the same serie of products sold.

Or, maybe it can depend on how bad the previous product in a serie was. For example, if Volvo makes a car called "1", and this car has many errors with it, and then they later make a car called "2", then some people might have much bad experience with car "1", and because of this then they might not trust car "2" as well, and then they might not buy this because of how car "1" was. Did that make any sense? :)

I dont know how good this car example i mentioned above here resemblance the console sales though. I mean, the Nintendo 64 was a good console (at least in my opinion :)), and the Gamecube sold less than the Nintendo 64, so it wasnt sure that people thought that the Nintendo 64 was a bad console because they didnt buy a Gamecube as well, if you know what i mean?


But regarding how the previous consoles sold. Look at the Gamecube and Wii for example. Why didnt the Gamecube sell about as much as the Wii does? Personally i think it is mostly because of 2 reasons:

1. The PS2 came out before the Gamecube and the PS2 had already been "set" (or what i shall say) as the popular console.

2. The Gamecube were too similar to the PS2 both when it comes to the functions of the console and with the graphics. I know that the Gamecube had more powerful hardware than the PS2 and that some of the Gamecube games had better graphics than what the PS2 had, but the difference in the graphics between the PS2 and the Gamecube werent exaclty really that big, at least in my opinion, and at least not compared to the graphical diffrence between the Wii and the PS3/Xbox 360 for example.


When the Wii was released, it had something that was rather unique, and the price was also pretty good, at least compared to how much the Xbox 360 and the PS3 costed when these 2 consoles were released. Combining the rather unique control scheme that Wii has with the realtively low price of the console, that is a very good combination in my opinion, and i think this is why the Wii is selling so good.

If the Wii were basicly a Gamecube 2, with the same control scheme as the Gamecube had and with more similar graphics like the PS3 and the Xbox 360 has, and if the Wii had cost something like 349 or 399 US dollars when it was released, then i dont think it would have sold that well.


What i am basicly trying to say is that i dont think it matters too much on how the PS3 is if the PS4 comes with some feature(s) that is rather unique and that many people are interested in, just like the Wii did, and if the price of the PS4 is more mass-market friendly compared to how the PS3 was/is, just like the Wii is :) I think that what feature(s) the PS4 (or any other consoles for that matter) will bring, which games that will come out for the PS4 and what price the console(s) cost is what matters the most if the PS4 will sell more than the PS3 or not.

I am not saying that the PS4 will come with some unique feature(s) like the Wii did, or that the PS4 will get alot of big selling game titles, or that the price on the PS4 will be more mass-market friendly from the release date of the PS4 compared to how the price on the PS3 was at the release date just to underline that, but since we basicly dont know anything about how the PS4 will be or how much the PS4 will cost, then i personally think it is alittle too early to say too much about that the PS4 wont sell more than what the PS3 did, but that is just my opinion :)


EDIT: Or maybe there is something that we "know" about the PS4, or at least what might be concidered as safe bets, is that the PS4 will use a Bluray drive and a Cell CPU like the PS3 did. I would be suprised if Sony doesnt include a Bluray drive and a Cell CPU in the PS4 at least, because if they dont, then i wonder how it will be with the PS3 backward compability (i think it is a safe bet that Sony wants PS3 backward compability on the PS4 at least) :)
 
nextgeneration said:
Thanks for the charts. Is there a particular reason why you're using operating income instead of net income for Nintendo? For both Microsoft and Sony, you're using net income, right?
No, Microsoft and Sony are operating income... which is why Nintendo's was switched to that.

As we're dealing with departments only for MS / Sony it's all we ever get. (vs the whole company for Nintendo)
 
Psychotext said:
No, Microsoft and Sony are operating income... which is why Nintendo's was switched to that.

As we're dealing with departments only for MS / Sony it's all we ever get. (vs the whole company for Nintendo)
So if I'm reading this right operating income does not include all the currency losses for Nintendo. Are we missing that for Sony as well? I guess MS could lose out vs the Euro/pound as well.
 
Yes Boss! said:
Anybody know the total worldwide software sales for the PS2? I'm curious how far away the DS is to it.
They changed the way they report that along with hardware so things are a bit disjointed, but here are the two relevant pages.

Looks like PS2 reached DS's current level of software shipment at the end of 2003. 3-4 years from launch depending on which launch you count from, so a bit quicker than DS. At the end of March 2007 PS2 software shipments were up to 1.24 billion.
 
Me said:
EDIT: So since I'm not seeing official threads about different companies' results, would this combined thread be the best place to unload the hardware graphs?
I'll take silence on this as an "OK, but don't go apeshit since this thread isn't so specific."

It's Wii hardware that's the most interesting to see exploding, of course.

While Wii still has a while (another quarter) to catch up to SNES, it's worth noting that it's now almost to the earliest solid shipment data I've got for SNES, which isn't very early at all. So I can say fairly safely that Wii is where SNES was in early 1997, more than 6 years after its initial Japanese launch.


Here are all of Wiis quarters so far next to the totals from previous Nintendo consoles. Makes it pretty clear how soon NES and SNES will be surpassed.



Is it really near launch anymore? I suppose it's relative. It's nearer than anything else that's reached this number.

I notice Wii has shipped 50% more than its nearest competitor (PS2) at the same age, and more than double the next (PS3).

ThereAreMoreWiisAvailableThanAnyNearLaunchHomeConsoleEver.info
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Looks like PS2 reached DS's current level of software shipment at the end of 2003. 3-4 years from launch depending on which launch you count from, so a bit quicker than DS. At the end of March 2007 PS2 software shipments were up to 1.24 billion.
Oh wow. The PS2 had massive sales. Is it even possible for the DS to catch, software-wise?
 
lowlylowlycook said:
So if I'm reading this right operating income does not include all the currency losses for Nintendo. Are we missing that for Sony as well?
Yes, there's all sorts of extras which go into the final net income calculation.
 
Private Hoffman said:
$399 is the new $299. Live with it.
Darling, if this generation has taught you anything it should've been that game players don't have to "live with it."

Oh and that the whole pasttime of videogames would have been killed by your line of thinking if another company hadn't came in and made game machines that peole actually wanted.
 
Yes Boss! said:
Oh wow. The PS2 had massive sales. Is it even possible for the DS to catch, software-wise?
Yearly software sales obviously increase as an installed base grows (and keeps going for longer than the hardware sales), so it's possible. Wii might have a better chance, though.
 
lowlylowlycook said:
The latest,Q3, results are worse than last year. ...The PS3 isn't on a sales trajectory like that its predecessors, so I see no particular reason to expect that the earnings should follow past performance either.
The earnings trajectory I posted is the PS3. It's obvious that results still aren't great, and I agree that big obstacles remain. But the gaming division could be profitable as early as this fiscal year. I was disagreeing with your inaccurate statement that things are getting worse and that further losses are inevitable. Without the global economy tanking, SCEI would've likely been close to profitable already in FY08.
 
Electronic Arts
Results for the 3 Months Ended December 2008:
Net Income: - 641.000.000$
source: http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN0353477520090203?rpc=44










Comparison (third Quarter of Fiscal Year):
Code:
Company			Original Income	        In U.S. $		Type

Nintendo		67.696.000.000 ¥	691.853.120		Net Income
Sony			400.000.000    ¥	4.088.000		Operating Income
Electronic Arts		-641.000.000   $	-641.000.000		Net Income
1 U.S. dollar = 97,8473581 Japanese yen (you can you whatever you wan't)
 
thx bttb.


Comparison (First three Quarters of the Fiscal Year):
Code:
Company			Original Income	        In U.S. $		Type

Nintendo		212.524.000.000	¥	2.171.995.280		Net Income
Takara Tomy		3.953.000.000	¥	40.399.660		Net Income
Eizo Nanao		3.300.000.000	¥	33.726.000		Net Income
Hudson			1.545.000.000	¥	15.789.900		Net Income
AQ Interactive		-520.000.000	¥	-5.314.400		Net Income
Koei			-1.027.000.000	¥	-10.495.940		Net Income
Sony			-33.700.000.000	¥	-344.414.000		Operating Income
Electronic Arts		-1.046.000.000	$	-1.046.000.000		Net Income
1 U.S. dollar = 97,8473581 Japanese yen (you can you whatever you wan't)
 
Gamsutra posted this about Disney Interactive:
For the first time, Disney reported results for its Interactive Media Group separately from the larger organization, showing a 13 percent increase in revenues of $313 million.

However, the group still reported a $45 million loss in operating income, compared to a profit of $13 million the previous year.

Rearranging fiscal 2008 results to reflect the new reporting system, results from the previous year show Interactive Media Group revenues increased by 47 percent to $719 million, with Disney Interactive accounting for a majority $160 million increase.
link
 
THQ was posted
Strategic Plan
In November, the company announced a new strategic plan to focus on 1) developing a select number of high quality titles targeted at the core gamer, such as Saints Row 2 and the upcoming Red Faction: Guerrilla and Darksiders; 2) extending its leadership in the fighting category with such brands as WWE and Ultimate Fighting Championship; 3) reinvigorating the product portfolio and improving profitability in its kids’ business; 4) building strong casual game franchises like de Blob, Drawn to Life and Big Beach Sports; and 5) extending its brands into emerging online markets with games such as Company of Heroes Online and its Warhammer 40,000 MMO. The company also announced plans to align its organization and cost structure to support this strategy.
The company noted the following product highlights in fiscal 2009:

Saints Row 2 achieved a Metacritic rating of 82 and shipped more than 2.6 million units to date

WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2009 achieved a Metacritic rating of 80 and shipped more than 4 million units to date

de Blob achieved a Metacritic rating of 81 and shipped approximately 700,000 units to date

Big Beach Sports shipped more than 1.2 million units to date


“Established franchises like Saints Row and WWE SmackDown vs. Raw, as well as new franchises such as de Blob and Big Beach Sports for the Nintendo Wii, give us confidence in our strategy going forward,” said Farrell. “We have several compelling games set to launch in the coming months, including Warhammer: Dawn of War II, WWE Legends of WrestleMania, our first games based on the popular Ultimate Fighting Championship, and Red Faction: Guerrilla.”
Farrell added, “In this environment, we are focused on what we can control: delivering high quality products, investing in a targeted product pipeline, and aggressively managing costs.”
de Blob at 700k! shipped
 
THQ said:
4) building strong casual game franchises like de Blob, Drawn to Life
hahaha why are those 2 games considered casual by THQ? Just because they are on wii and DS? They seem like very traditional style games to me.

Either way I'm very happy to hear about the success of De Blob.
 
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNK

EA CEO John Ricitiello has spoken out about the cost of development for Wii titles, saying that for EA the cost is 'a third to a fourth' the size of next-gen development.
Speaking in the earnings call following the company's Q3 financials, which saw its losses increase to $641m from $33m in the same period last year, Ricitiello said: "Development is typically a third to a fourth as much for a Wii game then it is for a PS3 or an Xbox 360 game."
.

Gives us an example of what Wii dev costs are compared to PS3/360
 
Captain Smoker said:
Hmm, let's see, just my estimates:

Development costs PS360: 20.000.000$ - 30.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 20$
Break-even-Point: 1.000.000 - 1.500.000

Development costs Wii: ~ 5.000.000$ - 10.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 15$
Break-even-Point: 330.000 - 670.000
So marketing would be additional?
 
More on Konami :

Game sales (in million units, for the period from April 08 to December 08 - results from the same period from last year in parenthesis) :

> By region

Japan : 7.13 (7.73)
America : 6.37 (2.50 )
Europe : 8.62 (7.38 )
Asia : 0.24 (0.19)
Total : 22.35 ( 17.81)

> By Genre :

Soccer : 7.41 (7.46)
Baseball : 1.20 ( 1.37)
Anime : 1.37 (1.78)
Music : 2.01 ( 1.36)
Metal Gear : 4.50 (0.79)
Various : 5.86 (5.05)

Platforms breakdown (in percents, same period as above, last year share in parenthesis)

PS3 : 32% (9%)
PS2 : 18% (38%)
DS : 15% (24%)
Wii : 14% (6%)
PSP : 11% (14%)
Xbox360 : 7% (6%)
PC : 2% (3%)
 
Captain Smoker said:
Hmm, let's see, just my estimates:

Development costs PS360: 20.000.000$ - 30.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 20$
Break-even-Point: 1.000.000 - 1.500.000

Development costs Wii: ~ 5.000.000$ - 10.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 15$
Break-even-Point: 330.000 - 670.000
If the average PS360 game is $10 more than the average Wii game, how do you figure the difference in earning per copy is just $5? I wouldn't guess there'd be much difference in production/packaging/shipping. Maybe a little more for Blu-ray than DVD.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
If the average PS360 game is $10 more than the average Wii game, how do you figure the difference in earning per copy is just $5? I wouldn't guess there'd be much difference in production/packaging/shipping. Maybe a little more for Blu-ray than DVD.
dont forget increased retailer margins, licencing fees and taxes
 
Captain Smoker said:
Hmm, let's see, just my estimates:

Development costs PS360: 20.000.000$ - 30.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 20$
Break-even-Point: 1.000.000 - 1.500.000

Development costs Wii: ~ 5.000.000$ - 10.000.000$
Estimated earning per copy: 15$
Break-even-Point: 330.000 - 670.000
I feel like your estimates are way high. These might be good for rare AAA games but I know some games that were developped for under a million (Shaun White Wii), making the breakeven point way lower. I would assume that there was no Wii game costing more than 5 million since Smash Brawl.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Valtor said:
I feel like your estimates are way high. These might be good for rare AAA games but I know some games that were developped for under a million (Shaun White Wii), making the breakeven point way lower. I would assume that there was no Wii game costing more than 5 million since Smash Brawl.
there is not a chance that shaun white cost less than a million even just including negative costs, and substantially more when you hash out the full budget.