Support NeoGAF

[tusharngf]

During its annual tech day, Samsung revealed new information regarding next-gen memory technologies such as DDR6, GDDR6+, GDDR7 & HBM3.

Samsung Beings Development of DDR6 & GDDR6+ Memory Technologies, Also Talks GDDR7 & HBM3 Standards For Next-Gen GPUs​

Computerbase managed to get hold of the information from Samsung who discussed the next-gen memory standards. The most recent leap in the memory design came with the launch of DDR5. The standard is now up and operational on Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake platform & while there are some major issues with supply, memory makers aren't stopping in refining DDR5. Samsung has outlined native JEDEC speeds of DDR5-6400 Mbps & overclocked module speeds of DDR5-8500 Mbps in the near future. Currently, memory makers have teased up to 7000 Mbps transfer speeds with initially produced DDR5 DIMMs but that will get better with time.

DDR6 Memory Standard In-Development - Up To 17,000 Mbps Transfer Speeds​

Enter DDR6, the next-generation memory standard is said to be already in development and will replace DDR5 in the future. Since DDR5 only just launched, we shouldn't expect DDR6 till at least 2025-2026+. The DDR4 memory standard stayed with us for at least 6 years so we should expect the same timeframe for DDR6's launch.

GDDR6+ With 24 Gbps & GDDR7 With 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs​

Samsung also revealed its plans to offer a faster GDDR6+ standard which will replace the existing GDDR6 chips. Currently, Micron is the only one that has designs for 21 Gbps+ graphics memory ready with its GDDR6X standard. GDDR6+ is more of a refinement of GDDR6 than just upping the bandwidth. It is said to rock speeds of up to 24 Gbps and will be part of the next generation of GPUs. This will allow GPUs with 320/352/384 bit bus layouts to reach over 1 TB/s bandwidth while 256-bit GPUs will be able to reach up to 768 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR Memory Specifications:​

Feature	GDDR5	GDDR5X	GDDR6	GDDR6X	GDDR6+	GDDR7
Density	From 512Mb to 8Gb	8Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb, 32Gb?
VDD and VDDQ	Either 1.5V or 1.35V	1.35V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	TBD	TBD
VPP	N/A	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	TBD
Data rates	Up to 8 Gb/s	Up to 12Gb/s	Up to 16 Gb/s	19 Gb/s, 21 Gb/s, >21 Gb/s	24 Gb/s	32 Gb/s
Package	BGA-170 14mm x 12mm 0.8mm ball pitch	BGA-190 14mm x 12mm 0.65mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch?	TBD
I/O width	x32/x16	x32/x16	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	TBD

​

Source: Samsung DDR6-12800 Memory Currently In Development, GDDR6+ To Offer Up To 24 Gbps & GDDR7 Up To 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs (wccftech.com)

 

[GymWolf]

Any chance of seeing any of this on series 4000 or new amd series?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Any chance of seeing any of this on series 4000 or new amd series?

I assume GDDR6+ will be part of the next graphic cards.

 

[OverHeat]

My wallet is ready bring the next nvidia series with those memory modules!!!

 

[xPikYx]

Scalpers and miners already drooling for this

 

[Kataploom]

Any chance of seeing any of this on series 4000 or new amd series?

DDR6? Zero, we're just about to get DDR5 and memory modules types do not change too frequently, they will last years before a module upgrade in the industry, they probably started developing DDR6 so they can be ready in like... 5 to 8 years or so...

That being said, are people using the new Intel CPUs using DDR5 getting 4800 MT/s memories to make such a difference against current Ryzen 9? because if so, memory probably isn't giving enough of an advantage imo

 

[RoboFu]

Scalpers and miners already drooling for this

Mining is going to cpus next. There’s a new coin that favors l3 cache so ryzen is going to be scarce

 

[CuNi]

Scalpers and miners already drooling for this

We can only hope that by the time those hit the market, chip supply has stabilized and scales can go f off. Wishful thinking, i know..

 

[Imtjnotu]

Hbm is still a thing?!

 

[iHaunter]

DDR6? Zero, we're just about to get DDR5 and memory modules types do not change too frequently, they will last years before a module upgrade in the industry, they probably started developing DDR6 so they can be ready in like... 5 to 8 years or so...

That being said, are people using the new Intel CPUs using DDR5 getting 4800 MT/s memories to make such a difference against current Ryzen 9? because if so, memory probably isn't giving enough of an advantage imo

We're def getting 6 already. It's kinda nuts. We had DDR3/4 for so long. Then BAM, 5, 6 so rapidly. Crazy how demand dictates innovation.

 

[Kataploom]

We're def getting 6 already. It's kinda nuts. We had DDR3/4 for so long. Then BAM, 5, 6 so rapidly. Crazy how demand dictates innovation.

Da fuq? More or less when are we expecting to have them on stores? Cause if that's true DDR5 is not worth it... Tho I don't believe that

 

[iHaunter]

Da fuq? More or less when are we expecting to have them on stores? Cause if that's true DDR5 is not worth it... Tho I don't believe that

Hard to say, but DDR6 isn't too far off. I haven't upgraded my PC for a while because I've heard rumors about it. Buddy of mine is a CPU Architect for Intel. My ex-boss is VP for CPU division whom I still talk to.

I'm waiting for it. i9 9900k still holding out. Granted I had to OC it to 5.5Ghz.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

We can only hope that by the time those hit the market, chip supply has stabilized and scales can go f off. Wishful thinking, i know..

I think part of what affected GPU availability, especially in America, was the fact everyone and their mom could afford a GPU because of free money. Now what I see (from what I CAN SEE) is that a lot of that money is no longer in the hands of those people, so while I feel that's behind us, supply constraints have hit because of COVID and things are moving slower coupled with the labor shortage. Miners also being a factor as well as big companies like Apple hogging up wafers. The chip supply isn't as simple as some people think, China also a factor.

 

[rofif]

It's a fucking ram. nobody cares. It never made any difference

 

[CuNi]

I think part of what affected GPU availability, especially in America, was the fact everyone and their mom could afford a GPU because of free money. Now what I see (from what I CAN SEE) is that a lot of that money is no longer in the hands of those people, so while I feel that's behind us, supply constraints have hit because of COVID and things are moving slower coupled with the labor shortage. Miners also being a factor as well as big companies like Apple hogging up wafers. The chip supply isn't as simple as some people think, China also a factor.

I know, and many chip foundries and even prominent buyers of those chips speculate the shortage to continue for at least into 2023/24 if not longer. Obviously capacity doesn't poof into existence out of nowhere and those things take time. I just hope that by the time those standards hit mass production, that the long term plans from today to increase capacity going forward will start to bear fruits and supply routes have had the time to be adjusted accordingly.
I'd hope to see price move back down again towards pre-covid prices starting end of 2024 and hopefully normalize by 2025, 2026 at the latest, just in time for (hopefully) mass production start of those new specs.

It's a fucking ram. nobody cares. It never made any difference

Incredibly uninformed post.
Obviously it doesn't effect FPS in such a major way like CPU or GPU Upgrades, but it does affect FPS nonetheless.
There is even in todays time already a measurable difference in for example 1x 16GB RAM vs 2x 8GB RAM and that is without even taking account what different RAM timings and speeds do.

 

[CobraAB]

Awesome man. Even more expensive GPU's!

 

[alucard0712_rus]

My wallet is ready bring the next nvidia series with those memory modules!!!

Scalpers are ready too, lol

 

[HTK]

They'll need it considering how unoptimized PC games have become.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hbm is still a thing?!

It still has uses for data centers. It can be stacked unlike current GDDR6 and the likes.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Hbm is still a thing?!

SK Hynix announced their HBM3 stacks just last month.

SK Hynix Announces Its First HBM3 Memory: 24GB Stacks, Clocked at up to 6.4Gbps

www.anandtech.com

24GB of 819GB/s bandwidth out of a single stack. Apple could use this for a high-end laptop / desktop SoC.

 

[BusierDonkey]

It's a fucking ram. nobody cares. It never made any difference

It's not a massive difference, but there is a difference. 3200 to 4400 is a notable leap in many games, some times in the double digits.

If you're playing locked to 60fps you won't see a benefit but players looking to eek out another few FPS will benefit from faster modules.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

During its annual tech day, Samsung revealed new information regarding next-gen memory technologies such as DDR6, GDDR6+, GDDR7 & HBM3.

Samsung Beings Development of DDR6 & GDDR6+ Memory Technologies, Also Talks GDDR7 & HBM3 Standards For Next-Gen GPUs​

Computerbase managed to get hold of the information from Samsung who discussed the next-gen memory standards. The most recent leap in the memory design came with the launch of DDR5. The standard is now up and operational on Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake platform & while there are some major issues with supply, memory makers aren't stopping in refining DDR5. Samsung has outlined native JEDEC speeds of DDR5-6400 Mbps & overclocked module speeds of DDR5-8500 Mbps in the near future. Currently, memory makers have teased up to 7000 Mbps transfer speeds with initially produced DDR5 DIMMs but that will get better with time.

DDR6 Memory Standard In-Development - Up To 17,000 Mbps Transfer Speeds​

Enter DDR6, the next-generation memory standard is said to be already in development and will replace DDR5 in the future. Since DDR5 only just launched, we shouldn't expect DDR6 till at least 2025-2026+. The DDR4 memory standard stayed with us for at least 6 years so we should expect the same timeframe for DDR6's launch.

GDDR6+ With 24 Gbps & GDDR7 With 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs​

Samsung also revealed its plans to offer a faster GDDR6+ standard which will replace the existing GDDR6 chips. Currently, Micron is the only one that has designs for 21 Gbps+ graphics memory ready with its GDDR6X standard. GDDR6+ is more of a refinement of GDDR6 than just upping the bandwidth. It is said to rock speeds of up to 24 Gbps and will be part of the next generation of GPUs. This will allow GPUs with 320/352/384 bit bus layouts to reach over 1 TB/s bandwidth while 256-bit GPUs will be able to reach up to 768 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR Memory Specifications:​

Feature	GDDR5	GDDR5X	GDDR6	GDDR6X	GDDR6+	GDDR7
Density	From 512Mb to 8Gb	8Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb, 32Gb?
VDD and VDDQ	Either 1.5V or 1.35V	1.35V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	TBD	TBD
VPP	N/A	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	TBD
Data rates	Up to 8 Gb/s	Up to 12Gb/s	Up to 16 Gb/s	19 Gb/s, 21 Gb/s, >21 Gb/s	24 Gb/s	32 Gb/s
Package	BGA-170 14mm x 12mm 0.8mm ball pitch	BGA-190 14mm x 12mm 0.65mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch?	TBD
I/O width	x32/x16	x32/x16	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	TBD

​

Source: Samsung DDR6-12800 Memory Currently In Development, GDDR6+ To Offer Up To 24 Gbps & GDDR7 Up To 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs (wccftech.com)

This is more like it!!!!

 

[Skifi28]

"Did you just upgrade to DDR5? Yeah, it's already old news, tough luck. Did you only recently upgrade to DDR4? Haha, sucker"

Anyone else get the feeling sometimes PC tech moves a bit too fast?

 

[nightmare-slain]

"Did you just upgrade to DDR5? Yeah, it's already old news, tough luck. Did you only recently upgrade to DDR4? Haha, sucker"

Anyone else get the feeling sometimes PC tech moves a bit too fast?

same with PCIE. it feels like we only just got PCIE 4 and now we're suddenly on 5.0? lol

 

[CuNi]

"Did you just upgrade to DDR5? Yeah, it's already old news, tough luck. Did you only recently upgrade to DDR4? Haha, sucker"

Anyone else get the feeling sometimes PC tech moves a bit too fast?

I think it comes down to what one wants to have in his rig.
Like if you want to be always the first in tech, you gotta get there in day 1, you pay a premium and usually as tech matures the tech even gets better and cheaper at the same time!
But if you want to stay more budged friendly, you can always go in late into a tech and get refined processes, good performance for a all time low at the cost of being superseded by the new tech soon.

Edit: One cannot stay "on top of the performance" without having to swap parts every year. CPUs get a refresher these days after ~1 year market time before ~6-12 months later the next architecture releases.
GPU also usually get a ~1 year TI/SUPER/AMD equivalent refresher before being superseded by the next Series 1 year later. RAM gets faster frequencies, densities and better Timings on a bi-yearly cycle... if not faster.
Mainboards having new chipsets/revision/configurations release yearly too. Storage density/speeds and specs change yearly too.

 

[Deanington]

Can we at least try DDR5, which I think I made a mistake by preordering/purchasing a 12700k. Pretty much a paper weight right now, even still early for DDR5.

 

[hybrid_birth]

Holy shit didn’t know Dance Dance Revolution (DDR) was still popular.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Hopefully when I pick up a 6090 or 9900XT it will have GDDR7.

 

[jhjfss]

same with PCIE. it feels like we only just got PCIE 4 and now we're suddenly on 5.0? lol

PCIe 6.0 Spec at Final Draft: 128 GBps

PCIe Gen6 at 64 GT/s with PAM4 encoding is nearly here.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I know, and many chip foundries and even prominent buyers of those chips speculate the shortage to continue for at least into 2023/24 if not longer. Obviously capacity doesn't poof into existence out of nowhere and those things take time. I just hope that by the time those standards hit mass production, that the long term plans from today to increase capacity going forward will start to bear fruits and supply routes have had the time to be adjusted accordingly.
I'd hope to see price move back down again towards pre-covid prices starting end of 2024 and hopefully normalize by 2025, 2026 at the latest, just in time for (hopefully) mass production start of those new specs.



Incredibly uninformed post.
Obviously it doesn't effect FPS in such a major way like CPU or GPU Upgrades, but it does affect FPS nonetheless.
There is even in todays time already a measurable difference in for example 1x 16GB RAM vs 2x 8GB RAM and that is without even taking account what different RAM timings and speeds do.

We still should worry... because apparently China controls about 40-60% of the rare Earths that make up chip creation. I also think that is why they have accelerated their Space plans, because that will be the next place to obtain a boon of rare Metals/Earths

 

[Slayer-33]

Mining is going to cpus next. There’s a new coin that favors l3 cache so ryzen is going to be scarce

Jesus Christ..

 

[Dirk Benedict]

"Did you just upgrade to DDR5? Yeah, it's already old news, tough luck. Did you only recently upgrade to DDR4? Haha, sucker"

Anyone else get the feeling sometimes PC tech moves a bit too fast?

I upgraded during the end of DDR4, I feel no regret. Especially since I know how fast tech moves. I got tired of waiting. My rig is awesome and it chews through everything. The only thing I regret is not holding out for a 3090.... the card I saved for in the first place. I honestly think I deserved to get one, because, I am not a miner, for one, and also I tried 3 different times to wait outside of various stores... I wanted it for gaming performance... and that chunky 24GB VRAM. I spent several months trying to get a 3090... even at inflated price..

 

[rnlval]

During its annual tech day, Samsung revealed new information regarding next-gen memory technologies such as DDR6, GDDR6+, GDDR7 & HBM3.

Samsung Beings Development of DDR6 & GDDR6+ Memory Technologies, Also Talks GDDR7 & HBM3 Standards For Next-Gen GPUs​

Computerbase managed to get hold of the information from Samsung who discussed the next-gen memory standards. The most recent leap in the memory design came with the launch of DDR5. The standard is now up and operational on Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake platform & while there are some major issues with supply, memory makers aren't stopping in refining DDR5. Samsung has outlined native JEDEC speeds of DDR5-6400 Mbps & overclocked module speeds of DDR5-8500 Mbps in the near future. Currently, memory makers have teased up to 7000 Mbps transfer speeds with initially produced DDR5 DIMMs but that will get better with time.

DDR6 Memory Standard In-Development - Up To 17,000 Mbps Transfer Speeds​

Enter DDR6, the next-generation memory standard is said to be already in development and will replace DDR5 in the future. Since DDR5 only just launched, we shouldn't expect DDR6 till at least 2025-2026+. The DDR4 memory standard stayed with us for at least 6 years so we should expect the same timeframe for DDR6's launch.

GDDR6+ With 24 Gbps & GDDR7 With 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs​

Samsung also revealed its plans to offer a faster GDDR6+ standard which will replace the existing GDDR6 chips. Currently, Micron is the only one that has designs for 21 Gbps+ graphics memory ready with its GDDR6X standard. GDDR6+ is more of a refinement of GDDR6 than just upping the bandwidth. It is said to rock speeds of up to 24 Gbps and will be part of the next generation of GPUs. This will allow GPUs with 320/352/384 bit bus layouts to reach over 1 TB/s bandwidth while 256-bit GPUs will be able to reach up to 768 GB/s bandwidth.

GDDR Memory Specifications:​

Feature	GDDR5	GDDR5X	GDDR6	GDDR6X	GDDR6+	GDDR7
Density	From 512Mb to 8Gb	8Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb	8Gb, 16Gb, 32Gb?
VDD and VDDQ	Either 1.5V or 1.35V	1.35V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	Either 1.35V or 1.25V	TBD	TBD
VPP	N/A	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	1.8V	TBD
Data rates	Up to 8 Gb/s	Up to 12Gb/s	Up to 16 Gb/s	19 Gb/s, 21 Gb/s, >21 Gb/s	24 Gb/s	32 Gb/s
Package	BGA-170 14mm x 12mm 0.8mm ball pitch	BGA-190 14mm x 12mm 0.65mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch	BGA-180 14mm x 12mm 0.75mm ball pitch?	TBD
I/O width	x32/x16	x32/x16	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	2 ch x16/x8	TBD

Source: Samsung DDR6-12800 Memory Currently In Development, GDDR6+ To Offer Up To 24 Gbps & GDDR7 Up To 32 Gbps For Next-Gen GPUs (wccftech.com)

NAVI 21's 128 MB infinity Cache (L3 cache) was the workaround against the GDDR6-16000 production cost, product availability, and bandwidth issue i.e. AMD wasn't willing to spend on another Hawaii XT's 512-bit bus GDDRx PCB and 16 chips count.

Some NAVI 21 XTXH SKUs have the 18 Gbps data rate GDDR6 i.e. GDDR6-18000. https://hothardware.com/news/amdradeon-rx-6900-xt-liquid-cooled-coming-soon-with-18gbps-gddr6

Expect NAVI 31 with a larger infinity cache.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

DDR6? Zero, we're just about to get DDR5 and memory modules types do not change too frequently, they will last years before a module upgrade in the industry, they probably started developing DDR6 so they can be ready in like... 5 to 8 years or so...

That being said, are people using the new Intel CPUs using DDR5 getting 4800 MT/s memories to make such a difference against current Ryzen 9? because if so, memory probably isn't giving enough of an advantage imo

GGGGGGDDR

 

[winjer]

Samsung to Demo 37 Gbps GDDR7 Memory Next Month

Samsung Electronics will demonstrate its next generation GDDR7 memory chips at the IEEE Solid State Circuit Conference (SSCC), to be held in San Francisco in February. The company had teased GDDR7 way back at its Tech Day in 2022. The GDDR7 memory standard is targeted squarely at graphics cards...

www.techpowerup.com

Samsung Electronics will demonstrate its next generation GDDR7 memory chips at the IEEE Solid State Circuit Conference (SSCC), to be held in San Francisco in February. The company had teased GDDR7 way back at its Tech Day in 2022. The GDDR7 memory standard is targeted squarely at graphics cards and game consoles, it offers a 2x bandwidth gain over the current GDDR6. Samsung is expected to showcase a GDDR7 chip that's capable of 37 Gbps data-rate, with 16 Gbit (2 GB) density.

The GDDR7 memory standard leverages PAM3 signaling to achieve these high data-rates. The current GDDR6 standard uses NRZ signaling, while its off-shoot GDDR6X co-developed by NVIDIA and Micron Technology relies on PAM4 signaling. The standard also features four read clock modes, which should help with power management when the device is idling. Both NVIDIA and AMD are expected to implement GDDR7 with their next-generation GPUs. GDDR7 enters mass-production this year, and will feature in NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 50-series "Blackwell" graphics cards, as well as AMD Radeon RX 8000 series RDNA4.

 

[Bojji]

It's a fucking ram. nobody cares. It never made any difference

Jumps between DDR3, 4 and 5 were (at first) rather small and but in the end memory BW for cpu is important.

GPU memory bandwidth is SUPER IMPORTANT, big ass GPUs need this to not suffocate in 4k (or more).

 

[DaGwaphics]

The faster GDDR might salvage the next round of budget GPUs, might help them get a bit more out of the 128bit bus.

 

[Xyphie]

The faster GDDR might salvage the next round of budget GPUs, might help them get a bit more out of the 128bit bus.

Yep. The new non-binary 24Gbit GDDR7 modules will help 128-bit cards alot because you can ship them with single-sided 12GB instead of just 8 GB or expensive double-sided 16GB.

Spoiler

Prepare for 96-bit 9GB entry-level cards

 

[DaGwaphics]

Prepare for 96-bit 9GB entry-level cards

You just had to ruin it for me didn't you.

 

[Magic Carpet]

And your speeds will still default to 3200.
In about 2027 replace my 4070 with an Nvidia 6000 series.
Then in 2030 build an entirely brand new PC.
That gives me 6 years to save up some money.

 

[Audiophile]

I expect next gen consoles (or at least PS6) will need GDDR7 @ 32Gbps at a minimum; probably 8x32Gb@32Gbps 256-Bit for 32GB @ 1TB/s. I'd consider this a bare minimum for the major AI +RT push we're likely to see; and more memory bandwidth is probably preferable to more on-die cache given the rising cost of chips; as it allows a modular aspect that can be cost-reduced easier. We haven't really seen a console with a great bandwidth:compute ratio since the OG PS4. That said, I'll hold on to my stacked HBM + chiplet dream til the moment it's announced.