Sargon of Akkad's Ostracism & The Great Online Schism

Feb 22, 2018
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#51
What are you suggesting? Should the government (Which one?) seize Paypal and force them to do business as they see fit?
Impeding on a business's income for political reasons is illegal, at least in the US. I'm suggesting everybody sues PayPal all at once as no TOS were broken by subscribestar. Furthermore patreon can be sued for doing the same to some of its users. Sargon broke no patreon TOS.

Don't lean right then, problem solved. How is left wingers' problem if right wings are too incompetent to hold ANY service?
Ignoring for a moment that the people banned from these platforms are all liberals and libertarians, when the pendulum swings in the other extreme and you're forced to tow the far-right line or risk losing your livelyhood, I'm sure you won't mind, right?
 
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Likes: Kadayi
Dec 9, 2018
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#52
Impeding on a business's income for political reasons is illegal, at least in the US. I'm suggesting everybody sues PayPal all at once as no TOS were broken by subscribestar. Furthermore patreon can be sued for doing the same to some of its users. Sargon broke no patreon TOS.
Private companies can do what they want with their platform regardless. They have no obbligation to lending you their server and platfrom. Don't like it? Make your own platfrom. Liberals can, why can't you? Are you suggesting conservatives are lacking?

You can get Orange Daddy to the white house but you can't build a simple company?


Ignoring for a moment that the people banned from these platforms are all liberals and libertarians,
Sargon is not a liberal. He's one of those youtube "skeptics" , he's a reactionary that pander to his right wing userbase while pretending to be left wing so he doesn't get associated with all the awful things usually associated with right wing (Racism, homophobia, censorship).

when the pendulum swings in the other extreme and you're forced to tow the far-right line or risk losing your livelyhood, I'm sure you won't mind, right?
Are you comparing political ideas to the kind discrimination right wings put in places?
 
Jan 26, 2018
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#53
Tim pool just had a livestream. He is going to shut his patreon down soon. Only reason he is not doing it now is because he wants to try and move as many people as possible to a new platform.

Geeks + gamers also said they will be leaving.

Good luck to patreon but its crumbling down. If Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin can create a competitor like they said I will be so happy and will support it 100%
 
Likes: Kadayi

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#54
Tim pool just had a livestream. He is going to shut his patreon down soon. Only reason he is not doing it now is because he wants to try and move as many people as possible to a new platform.

Geeks + gamers also said they will be leaving.

Good luck to patreon but its crumbling down. If Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin can create a competitor like they said I will be so happy and will support it 100%
Wait why are they leaving if Patreon didn't kick them out?
 
Dec 9, 2018
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#57
Tim pool just had a livestream. He is going to shut his patreon down soon. Only reason he is not doing it now is because he wants to try and move as many people as possible to a new platform.

Geeks + gamers also said they will be leaving.

Good luck to patreon but its crumbling down. If Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin can create a competitor like they said I will be so happy and will support it 100%
RIP Patreon, you did because of some alt right creators decide to make their gab version of you.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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#61
I think I've seen this happen every time, and I know how it ends every time.

Newflash: Most people won't be affected and will keep using it. Kinda like Twitter and Gab, or Reddit and Voat, which are basically populated by the worst of humanity.
It doesnt matter what they want or if they survive or not, all that matters is that the people pissed at them have a alternative and if the pissed people that leave happen to be among the top accounts on patreon like sam harris or peterson then meh i will laugh at patreon but still wont care about patreon or its future. All that matters is that we have a alternative to them and soon.
 
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llien

Gold Member
Feb 1, 2017
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#62
Sam Harris: I'm Leaving Patreon

If you’re supporting [my] podcast through Patreon, you should’ve received an email from me announcing that I’ll be leaving the platform on September 1st… I don’t leave Patreon lightly. In fact, there are more people supporting me on Patreon than through my own website, but there are now many reasons why it’s become important that I consolidate support for the show on my site, however you might be interested to know the proximate cause of this decision.
I noticed the other day that Patreon cancelled the account of a conservative journalist - Lauren Southern - without warning, and without, as they stated, any possibility of appeal. Now, I’m not taking a position with respect to Southern - I’m actually not really familiar with her work - but this happened the same day that Richard Dawkins was deplatformed at UC Berkeley; and this is an action that should go down in the annals of [politically correct] insanity. This was right after his book, “The Selfish Gene,” was voted the most inspiring science book of all time in a public poll that was commissioned by the Royal Society, so the left continues to eat itself.
These events are part of a wave of deplatformings and demonitizations on YouTube and elsewhere, and it’s being driven almost entirely by leftist confusion about free speech. I consider myself well left-of-center on almost every topic, but this is just the Wild West out here in terms of people organizing campaigns of protest against totally legitimate and blameless scholars and journalists and scientists, and I realized that I just can’t afford to have this podcast be even slightly vulnerable to the whims of third-party.
I think the future of digital content lies in audience support, not in ads, and Patreon has really stepped into that space by itself. So please don’t get the wrong idea here, but in the current environment, I’ve decided I need full control over my platform. This could be a costly move, I recognize.

Don't like it? Make your own platfrom.
Oh, please, this story is 100 years old: Standard Oil.
We have effective monopolies censoring internet, I can't care less if they are "private" or not, they have major impact on everyone's life.

AT&T was dissolved for less, waaaay less.
But note that moving abroad was not an option for AT&T.
 
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Oct 2, 2018
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#64
I find it difficult to wrap my head around some of this.

One of the things people always criticized with Sargon was that "he never goes after the alt-right". He only criticizes the left, he doesn't disavow bad things on the right etc etc.

However when Sargon DOES go after the alt-right and gets angry with them he ends up basically losing his livelihood over that.
Yes, he did fight against the alt-right like we always said he should but he used naughty words when he was arguing with them so off with his head.

Mental.

I think it's fair to say here that Sargon really really REALLY should have known better.
I'm kind of amazed that he made it this far as it has seemed obvious he would eventually be chopped.

The disappointing thing is that he was starting it seemed to get close to being involved and influential in real life politics when he goes on a stream and starts dropping N-words. It's just so incredibly stupid.

Maybe since he has been taken out of context for years and has been lied about for years he just thinks he is above it all or immune somehow.

I would have preferred if he had just kept his head down and kept out of stupid online fights, with a whole variety of dishonest actors, and pushed forward towards some kind of tangible relevancy.

Patreon is in the wrong here, no doubt. Sargon left the door wide open for them though.

It doesn't even matter in the end. Sargon's ideas aren't going away. Even if they boot him from the internet entirely, it's WAY too late. There are literally 100s of thousands of people willing to make the same arguments and voice the same opposition.

I kind of feel sorry for a lot of these Youtube creators who will never be able to just go out and work a normal job after the dust settles on all this.
 

strange headache

Gif and Meme Champion
Jan 14, 2018
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#66
Sam Harris: I'm Leaving Patreon

If you’re supporting [my] podcast through Patreon, you should’ve received an email from me announcing that I’ll be leaving the platform on September 1st… I don’t leave Patreon lightly. In fact, there are more people supporting me on Patreon than through my own website, but there are now many reasons why it’s become important that I consolidate support for the show on my site, however you might be interested to know the proximate cause of this decision.
I noticed the other day that Patreon cancelled the account of a conservative journalist - Lauren Southern - without warning, and without, as they stated, any possibility of appeal. Now, I’m not taking a position with respect to Southern - I’m actually not really familiar with her work - but this happened the same day that Richard Dawkins was deplatformed at UC Berkeley; and this is an action that should go down in the annals of [politically correct] insanity. This was right after his book, “The Selfish Gene,” was voted the most inspiring science book of all time in a public poll that was commissioned by the Royal Society, so the left continues to eat itself.
These events are part of a wave of deplatformings and demonitizations on YouTube and elsewhere, and it’s being driven almost entirely by leftist confusion about free speech. I consider myself well left-of-center on almost every topic, but this is just the Wild West out here in terms of people organizing campaigns of protest against totally legitimate and blameless scholars and journalists and scientists, and I realized that I just can’t afford to have this podcast be even slightly vulnerable to the whims of third-party.
I think the future of digital content lies in audience support, not in ads, and Patreon has really stepped into that space by itself. So please don’t get the wrong idea here, but in the current environment, I’ve decided I need full control over my platform. This could be a costly move, I recognize.
Sam Harris leaving Patreon is a big deal, he's a well known intellectual and number 15 on their list of biggest patrons.
 
Likes: Kadayi
May 17, 2012
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#67
If you look at the creators listed on that site many of them in the same sphere as Sargon have seen a huge drop in patrons at the time Sargon was banned. Some individuals have recovered others it seems like their patrons were more hardcore and just stopped using Patreon as a direct result. Hopefully a suitable alternative is set up that isn't ideologically slanted one way or the other.
 

Kadayi

Probable Replicant
Oct 10, 2012
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#71
I look forward to whatever alternatives come up. Fuck that shitty doubling down post. WTF were they thinking. There's zero in their TOS to say that they get to police you 24/7 in all your actions.
 
Likes: Cunth
May 17, 2012
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#73
Why do these businesses capitulate to the mob? Far too much weight is put on Twitter nonsense which is just a relatively small organized activist group. I sincerely hope that these companies that do bend the knee feel the burn financially from their actions. We have had over a decade of semi stable social media platforms and that is a bad thing imo. These companies feel like they can't go anywhere and have now become the arbiters of opinions when they are just businesses like any other that rely on customer engagement. Not many successful businesses make it a habit of pissing off a good portion of its customers on the regular.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#74
You could make the argument they were unaware, guess we'll find out how hypocritical this "policy" really is. Dunno why people who support Patreon in this are incapable of looking at human history and understanding how evil thought policing turns out every time it's tried. It's only a matter of time before your in-group becomes the out-group and you become the undesirables.
 
Jul 13, 2018
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#75
More creators leaving Patreon every day. Not sure Rubin/Peterson can get their new system up soon enough. I saw Jimmy Dore cover it and he openly stated he's ready to jump to it. That's a very left leaning channel.
 
Likes: Kadayi
Jul 13, 2018
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#78
Socrates speech was like the first stand up comedy act. There's always been a bit of an overlap between comedy and philosophy. Sometimes there's too much overlap, like Hicks thinking he's the great philosopher and it getting in the way of his comedy. Carlin balanced his point/comedy pretty well.
 

strange headache

Gif and Meme Champion
Jan 14, 2018
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#81
Are we seriously equating an internet troll with Socrates, Kant, and Darwin?
Did you miss this part in my OP?

I am certainly not comparing Sargon with these enlightened intellectuals, but no matter which way I look at it, letting public opinion and outrage dictate the limits of what is allowed to say has always been a frikkin' dumb idea.
Anyway, I just watched Sargon's latest video:


Some interesting information in it, especially concerning the head of Patreon's "Trust & Safety" team (timestamp) who has been pretty vocal about their decision. Turns out, she used to have a managerial position at PayPal which might explain their quick rupture with Subscribestar, Sargon's alternate monetary platform. Which also leads me to believe that this was not a hit-job by alt right influencers, as was suggested earlier in this thread.
 
Jun 16, 2015
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#90
This is really interesting. Wouldn't mind seeing people come together on principle for once and punish an attack on free speech. Why should we support companies that don't support free speech?
 
Apr 8, 2009
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#91
If they don't get that alternative up quick this boycott is going to backfire badly. Is it still supposed to be Peterson and Rubin founding it? They might want to get someone who, you know, actually knows something about business.
 
Likes: EmSeta

Arkage

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2012
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#93
Good OP @strange headache

Sam Harris has also ditched patreon due to this. He had a sit down with them a while ago about the possibility of political bannings and they gave him reassurances, but this has pushed him over the edge.

And while I still defend Patreon's right to ban whomever the like (though they should still be shat on for their supposed "reasoning"), in this case I really hope an alternative is created that isn't ideologically driven. You can't force Patreon to support people they don't want to, especially when they already have a premade army of ideological yes-men that will cheer these decisions.

In any case looks like I'll have to fund Harris through his personal website now, which doesn't give an option for paying-by-podcast. Ugh.
 
Likes: matt404au
Jun 22, 2018
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#94
On 1 hand i'm so happy to see Patreon go through what it is going through, as clearly this is politically motivated bullshit and pandering to weak minded individuals.

On the other hand it's sad to see good people losing money, in what is sometimes their livelihoods from money lost through Patreon subscribers leaving.
 

Kadayi

Probable Replicant
Oct 10, 2012
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#95

You US types need to get onto your representatives to get the ball rolling on this and have the Federal Trade Commision look into the questionable actions by both Paypal and Stripe over simultaneously pulling support from subscribestar for no clear reason. The whole thing stinks of group boycott as an attempt to shore up Patreon due to people leaving the platform, By cutting subcribestar off at the knees it's almost like they are forcing unhappy creators to have to stick with it.
 
Likes: Nymphae
Nov 20, 2018
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#97
Damn, Patreon turned out to be pure evil after all. Hunting down users outside the platform and at the same time allowing thousands of accounts to fund porn when it clearly breaks the policy rules. I am guessing porn is the biggest income for the site so I can see why they are keeping it.
 
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Likes: matt404au

Kadayi

Probable Replicant
Oct 10, 2012
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#98
The gist from the transcript seems to point more towards Patreon being pressured by payment services like Paypal for Patreon to de-platform individuals they consider 'undesirables', which would explain in large part the abject double standard on display when it comes to Patreons own policy enforcement as well as an "opportunity" to appeal that feels like it took its lead from Kafka's 'The Trial'

Paypal and stripe perhaps being the ones behind the wheel might explain their swift action in cutting Subscribestar off at the knees post-haste once people starting leaving Patreon on mass for there, as a way to try and mitigate the damage their actions have done to the Patreon brand. One has to feel the FTC might want to start having a look into Paypal and Stripe sometime soon.
 
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