Irrational faltered because they spent nearly six years making a game that barely sold four million copies.
TakeTwo aren't a charity.
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Scott Rohde on Amy Hennig's Departure [Up: Naughty Dog responds]
- Thread starter Jonboy
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TakeTwo aren't a charity.
In a dimension where some dev like Irrational spend, what, 5-6 years developing a straightforward shooter and SSM spends 3-4 years developing some game and not being anywhere near releasing it?
Acquiescence
Member
I think this Ezran fellow is an alt-account out for a nice little troll in the park.
principalskinnermoneygesticulation.gif
New IP's are potential risks. And this industry is quite risk averse.
(On mobile so can't post GIF link. Sorry.)
Dreamgazer
Member
I am aware of the specific scenario and conditions of your post, and I can sincerely tell you that my response was made with those conditions in mind. I know someone after me made a post about people faking their credentials, but that's not what I was trying to get at.
To provide some background information:
I work as an accountant/information analysis that deals heavily with IT system audits and testing. From my personal experiences, I have seen ridiculous hiring decisions such as an art major hired into our position, a computer illiterate being placed in charged of global banking of a major international bank on Wall Street, and tax directors that have never properly filed a tax return. Basically, it is my personal
Again, we're going off topic -_-
It make sense in the business sense... you know, the only sense that matters.
New IPs???
Bioshock 1 was the new entry, they fucked it a bit up with bioshock2 but still infinite was just another entry. I still think closing the studio was just an excuse to focus on mobile games....
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'm going with bitter 343i employee. Seems like a waste of an account if this was a troll attempt.
What's the point? It hasn't exactly blown up or caused any controversy...
Did anyone actually go to ign to look up that quote? Keep reading sounds like its fake.
Can we ask why is that
Ah, sorry I was a bit too limited, on mobile. Basically any title that doesn't target the widest possible set of gamers (and then generates expected sale numbers) would also be discouraged.
Concerning BioShock 3 specifically, the developers had not justified their continued existence to T2/2k. Subjective opinions on the quality of Infinite aside, as mentioned above, supporting a ~200 person team that took 5-6 years to develop a title that only sold around four million is not a worthwhile venture; especially for T2 when they could spend those resources funding other more successful IP's.
Because he doesn't work at ND.
The people responsible for that game taking nearly six years are still with Take Two.
GoofsterStud
Member
BlackBuzzard
Banned
You guys are mixing up take2 and 2K
EdwardTivrusky
Member
Take-Two owns 2k.
Agent Gibbs
Member
He won't agree to the term fired? then what the hell was it?
did it go down something like this
"So uhh Amy we don't like the term fired so you've just resigned"
"no i haven't"
"yes you have collect your things, you are leaving of your own accord, these security guards are here to help you carry things and very very quietly plead for you to not leave, only they are deaf so won't hear if you respond"
"i don't want to "
"sorry i'm now deaf too lalalalalalalalalalalal"
what a scummy turn of events, either she's insulted someone in the company who wants rid of her, she's had a relationship with someone higher up and its over, her contract renewal stalled when she (obviously to ND) unjustly wanted a little more money or hell they just plain are lying and people who wanted her job forced her out riding on TLOU's tail coats
did it go down something like this
"So uhh Amy we don't like the term fired so you've just resigned"
"no i haven't"
"yes you have collect your things, you are leaving of your own accord, these security guards are here to help you carry things and very very quietly plead for you to not leave, only they are deaf so won't hear if you respond"
"i don't want to "
"sorry i'm now deaf too lalalalalalalalalalalal"
what a scummy turn of events, either she's insulted someone in the company who wants rid of her, she's had a relationship with someone higher up and its over, her contract renewal stalled when she (obviously to ND) unjustly wanted a little more money or hell they just plain are lying and people who wanted her job forced her out riding on TLOU's tail coats
GoofsterStud
Member
Yes, but with a smaller team developing smaller games.
Nightengale
Member
Pushed out =/= Fired. The results may be the same, but the context can be very different.
An underperforming staff, or even someone who doesn't fit with the company culture can be fired, and it doesn't mean anything more than "you're not good enough."
Pushed out implies an agenda where one side wins the office politics, or at least an external influence that has nothing to do with employee performance and suitability in the job role.
I don't know who survived the slaughter, I know it was a very small amount, Adrian Murphy is credit as the main studio side producer, so I guess he's mostly responsible for not reigning in production, I don't know if he's still there or not.
Regardless, yes, some staff were spared, but I think that's the logical thing to do, heads hard to roll for the project, maybe it's not 'fair' which heads didn't, but being let go isn't a punishment for the game's poor performance, it's the result of it.
Technically it's 2K Games, and TakeTwo is the parent company, but I don't think it's an especially meaningful distinction to make, so I didn't make it.
So I was banned for a week when this story came out and thus have yet to post my thoughts, now that I'm back I'd like to share them especially reading so many people's reactions.
First off it is clear that Amy was fired/forced out all one needs to do is read the ND statement concerning her departure to see that. Usually when someone departs on good terms with a company such as to try a new experience with another company or move for family reasons the official statement is very happy and encouraging. The former employee is congratulated and there are usually statements and tweets from staff wishing them all the best in their next undertaking. On top of this the employee themselves usually tweets or releases a statement thanking everyone with the usual loving good-byes and what not.
That is nowhere to be found with regards to Amy's departure all of the official statements seem to be crafted with particular laser-like specificity concerning their word choice. There isn't the usual goodbye tweets and loving support you usually see in such a departure. Thus, I think it can be safely stated that at the very least she did not leave on good terms.
But here is my response, who cares? Why does this make ND "bad guys" as I've seen in some posts? This is a business, and a creative business at that, with big ideas and big egos all trying to compete and make a vision come to life, as such conflict and tension is inevitable, that doesn't make anyone a "bad guy." Clearly there were some conflict going on between Amy and the ND head staff, whether it was with Neil and whoever over creative differences or the presidents and her salary who knows. In any event, it was apparent these differences couldn't be reconciled and she left whether the departure was a mutual agreement or one sided doesnt really make a difference.
Amy isn't some deer in the headlights or low level employee with no power, she is a high level sophisticated party capable of negotiating and handling her own affairs. It isn't going to be exactly hard for her to find another job after leaving ND so I really wish people would stop painting this picture of someone screwed out of their job by some shady hipster dudes. Again, this is a business people get fired it's a way of life I'm sure wherever Amy lands she'll be fine.
First off it is clear that Amy was fired/forced out all one needs to do is read the ND statement concerning her departure to see that. Usually when someone departs on good terms with a company such as to try a new experience with another company or move for family reasons the official statement is very happy and encouraging. The former employee is congratulated and there are usually statements and tweets from staff wishing them all the best in their next undertaking. On top of this the employee themselves usually tweets or releases a statement thanking everyone with the usual loving good-byes and what not.
That is nowhere to be found with regards to Amy's departure all of the official statements seem to be crafted with particular laser-like specificity concerning their word choice. There isn't the usual goodbye tweets and loving support you usually see in such a departure. Thus, I think it can be safely stated that at the very least she did not leave on good terms.
But here is my response, who cares? Why does this make ND "bad guys" as I've seen in some posts? This is a business, and a creative business at that, with big ideas and big egos all trying to compete and make a vision come to life, as such conflict and tension is inevitable, that doesn't make anyone a "bad guy." Clearly there were some conflict going on between Amy and the ND head staff, whether it was with Neil and whoever over creative differences or the presidents and her salary who knows. In any event, it was apparent these differences couldn't be reconciled and she left whether the departure was a mutual agreement or one sided doesnt really make a difference.
Amy isn't some deer in the headlights or low level employee with no power, she is a high level sophisticated party capable of negotiating and handling her own affairs. It isn't going to be exactly hard for her to find another job after leaving ND so I really wish people would stop painting this picture of someone screwed out of their job by some shady hipster dudes. Again, this is a business people get fired it's a way of life I'm sure wherever Amy lands she'll be fine.
but he is still not banned
Nightengale
Member
We've yet to see a post saying 'check your PMs.'
Let's not assume the mods have started their interrogations. They're not on GAF 24/7, mind.
Let's not assume the mods have started their interrogations. They're not on GAF 24/7, mind.
Corroborating such damning claims is not easy task. And he can always take refuge on the "I just made assumptions from the stuff that is out there on the internet about Corrine Yu previous work. Never claimed she was a hack myself with personal first hand knowledge." On the other hand Corrine Yu is still at Naughty Dog.
but that is basically some problem of the management and not problem of the team.
so i still dont see enough evidence to kill off the team.
the same goes for amy. she is the person behind the story of uncharted.
1+2 where awesome, 3 had some polishing issues, but i dont think that this is her fault. its more a fault of being pushed to the deadline.
i still believe someone in ND had problems with amys way of dealing with UC.
You take too much from this. There are plenty of leakers who don't get banned until it's proven their info was crap or lies.
I doubt Bish goes much deeper than asking them how they know the info and then let's then live or die by the validity of their info anyway.
Interviewing people is hard. Many companies will only confirm employment history, but not provide a reference for past employees. Friends came out of the woodwork following Corrinne's hiring to try to let us know just what a disaster she'd been at Gearbox and MS, but it was too late. That is where I got the IGN quote from.
If you are a ND staff member, you should really not post that stuff, you could be culpable for defaming and lose of future earnings.
There's a reason people only provide employment history.
Business
Member
Great post.
This thread is getting massively derailed, and it should stop. This is about Amy Hennig's departure from Naughty Dog, and it is not a place to throw accusations about other unrelated people and make bold unsubstantiated claims.
@Ezran
You have made some very serious and potentially libelous claims about Corrinne Yu in this thread. They were unsolicited comments which honestly have nothing to do with the content of this thread until you made it about that. I don't know your reasoning for that, and I don't know who you are, but this is not the right place to go about it.
If you want to break a story on this, there are many press sites which I think would be more than happy to take the story and do their own verification and collaboration of the facts. This would in turn provide a perspective which is fair to the individuals involved and provider the public with a more informed picture.
If you don't want to make this a big public scandal, and just want to take cheap digs at a known individual without substantiating anything and hiding behind an anonymous persona, then this is not the place to do that. You have made very specific accusations which go beyond just speculation or hearsay. I hope you realize that. If you want to substantiate any of what you've said and discuss a proper platform to express your side of the story here, feel free to PM me. If you do not want to do that, please stop posting stuff like that here. Thanks.
@Ezran
You have made some very serious and potentially libelous claims about Corrinne Yu in this thread. They were unsolicited comments which honestly have nothing to do with the content of this thread until you made it about that. I don't know your reasoning for that, and I don't know who you are, but this is not the right place to go about it.
If you want to break a story on this, there are many press sites which I think would be more than happy to take the story and do their own verification and collaboration of the facts. This would in turn provide a perspective which is fair to the individuals involved and provider the public with a more informed picture.
If you don't want to make this a big public scandal, and just want to take cheap digs at a known individual without substantiating anything and hiding behind an anonymous persona, then this is not the place to do that. You have made very specific accusations which go beyond just speculation or hearsay. I hope you realize that. If you want to substantiate any of what you've said and discuss a proper platform to express your side of the story here, feel free to PM me. If you do not want to do that, please stop posting stuff like that here. Thanks.
Excellent points. Sorry for the off-topic posts, and thank you for reminding me to not be a dick.
Ezran said:
Getting a idea of personal technical level in a interview is not that hard. What you can't really grok in a interview is how good/bad is that person working in a team. And their personality (some people really disguise well the fact they're dicks at interviews).
Given the chance to PM mods and substantiate claims, chooses to stop posting. Hmmmm...
I am willing to substantiate my claims to mods. I will stand by my original statement that Corrinne is on her way out. Not sure when that will hit the press though. I am now of the opinion that some of the things I wrote should not have been posted to this forum. I do not take back those words.
Damn !
On topic . No giving of " Thank you leaving Party for working with us" is a sign of leaving in bad terms ;P
You can't take those words back. Your work is done.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
But more on topic, can you shed any further light on the situation involving Hennig's departure while refraining from character defamation?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrianKaris/statuses/441436788209762304?screen_name=BrianKaris
Brian karis said this on Twitter:
I've returned to Epic. It's felt like coming home. ND wasn't a good fit for me. Yep, the tight turnaround time is really strange.
Brian karis said this on Twitter:
I've returned to Epic. It's felt like coming home. ND wasn't a good fit for me. Yep, the tight turnaround time is really strange.
Nightengale
Member
Not sure what's so strange about having very tight turnaround times... Tight two year dev cycles isn't that uncommon in the industry either.
Well this certainly took a weird turn.
I said it before when this was posted, most places have a month or so of a probationary period to make sure your skills are up to par and that you're a good fit. That's why I find Ezran's claims so hard to believe. He makes it seem like Corrine Yu has deceived her way into her reputation and her current job. Before even being hired and shortly after she would have had to prove herself.
Sephiroth503
Member
If Ezran is a ND employee we can probably add his departure to the thread title too.
Very serious accusations and this thread now seems to have taken a strange turn, not used to reading this type of content on GAF at all.
Very serious accusations and this thread now seems to have taken a strange turn, not used to reading this type of content on GAF at all.
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