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Sega Consoles - 18 years, Sony Consoles - 20 Years.

D.Lo

Member
I've long been of the opinion that even had Sony never existed, nothing would have played out any differently for Sega.
I don't agree. Japanese developers decided they loved CDs and couldn't live without them. Nintendo decided they didn't love CDs. The Saturn was the next best CD console, roughly equivalent to the PS1.

It would have gotten MGS, Resident Evil 2, Tomb Raider sequels, Silent Hill, all Namco's stuff... maybe even Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
 
I don't agree. Japanese developers decided they loved CDs and couldn't live without them. Nintendo decided they didn't love CDs. The Saturn was the next best CD console, roughly equivalent to the PS1.

It would have gotten MGS, Resident Evil 2, Tomb Raider sequels, Silent Hill, all Namco's stuff... maybe even Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

Well, more important is the fact that the Sega Saturn would have been the only 3D console for over one year before the launch of the N64.

Though Sega never really pushed the 3D aspect like Sony, the Playstation was the console for 3D gaming in the heads of the people.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Fuck, that's kinda depressing. Although modern gaming is great, I've never 'cared' about a games company since SEGA went third party. I'll always look back on the Megadrive / Saturn / Dreamcast era as my favourite time in gaming.
 

D.Lo

Member
Well, more important is the fact that the Sega Saturn would have been the only 3D console for over one year before the launch of the N64.

Though Sega never really pushed the 3D aspect like Sony, the Playstation was the console for 3D gaming in the heads of the people.
Yeah it's not like it's Sony's 'fault' the Saturn lost to the PS1. PS1 was literally a better console at a better price.

What Sega fans are salty at is that the PS2 hype killed the Dreamcast, when the Dreamcast was a fantastic product for the price, even if it did have a name that made it sound like a fishing rod.

And the PS2 hype was based on lies (Toy Story in real time), stretched truths (theoretical polygon counts that could never even exist if being rendered instead of real ones) and a DVD player which had nothing to do with gaming. Dreamcast games literally looked better than PS2 games for the time both were on the shelves, but it got crushed. That's what hurts for them.

Heck the PS2 hype was so out of control people believed all the way through the generation it was more powerful than the much more powerful Gamecube.
 
The rest of this I entirely agree with. Can the 32X and you greatly improve Sega's situation, even with the Saturn as it is. Yeah, the Saturn was expensive, but the price came down eventually and Sega's idea that they need a "transition system" was critically flawed, the Genesis (and Sega CD) could have done just fine. A better Saturn would help things even more of course. Follow that up by not hiring Bernie Stolar and not abandoning the Saturn in mid '97 but instead pushing it until '99 even though sales were low and you might sell at least twice as many Saturns in the West, instead of watching sales drop to near-zero in early '97 right as PS1 and N64 sales started taking off. Also consider releasing another handheld -- not following up the GG was a mistake, I think, it let Nintendo dominate the handheld market. Bandai and SNK weren't able to do as well as Sega had against Nintendo, and after Pokemon the handheld market was larger than it had been in the mid '90s. If that mostly went well maybe Sega couldn't be quite as broke and wouldn't have had to rush out the Dreamcast probably too early and without a DVD drive.

They'd probably have still had to leave hardware eventually, though. Sega had too many problems, and took too many risky moves, to get everything right... and even if they HAD, their small size relative to the other first parties would REALLY have been a problem by the mid '00s. How could Sega have afforded to compete with the PS3 (and 360 if MS was in)?

I agree a lot with what you are saying. They could have made Saturn a very Japanese niche machine in the West to and ported far more titles from Japan. Really pushed that side harder.

I've actually never though of the Game Gear, yes why didn't they follow it with a GG Slim of some sort. Sharper screen, less battery consumption, smaller size etc. Nintendo has earned billions on the handheld market, especially being able to roam it all alone most of the time.
 

D.Lo

Member
I agree a lot with what you are saying. They could have made Saturn a very Japanese niche machine in the West to and ported far more titles from Japan. Really pushed that side harder.

I've actually never though of the Game Gear, yes why didn't they follow it with a GG Slim of some sort. Sharper screen, less battery consumption, smaller size etc. Nintendo has earned billions on the handheld market, especially being able to roam it all alone most of the time.
They released the Nomad. Which was a totally logical extension since the Game Gear was a Master System in a handheld. It didn't do very well because people had wised up about fluorescent bulb-lit colour screen handhelds and how batteries lasted 26 minutes.

They could have done something new around the GBA time I guess, but were already in trouble by then, so started releasing GBA games.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
The Genesis was undoubtedly their greatest system. I know Dreamcast and Saturn were well liked, but they paled in comparison to the incredible output of top notch games on the Genny.

It's a shame Sega ruined their brand with all of their failed, short lived hardware. They brought on their own demise, and it was deserved. It's a shame their incredible franchises will never reach the fantastic heights of their heyday.
 

gelf

Member
I've said it before but I'll say it again. I suspect a more business savy Sega while being more successful in selling games and hardware may not have put out as many of the weird niche games that I and many other Sega fans loved. So I'm just going to be happy with the wonderful stuff I got from them even if it contributed to their failure in some way.
As an example Shenmue, a sane company would have looked at Yu Suzuki pitching it and said "how much will this cost us?! You stick with your arcade games", so we wouldn't have got it.
 

lazygecko

Member
As much as I love the Sega of the hardware age, I have no desire to see them back in the console market. That's just an insane space to compete in today unless you're a megacorporation hellbent on god knows how many years of losses just go get a foot in. I don't really see what I have to gain from that as a Sega fan either beyond satisfying some silly power fantasy.

This does genuinely blow my mind.

I know Sony has now been in games since "forever"... but Sega seemed somehow more primal and important as a game developer... One of the founding fathers of gaming.

That they have been rendered as a mere footnote in gaming history is humbling.

They pretty much set the template for doing business (well, the good parts of their business) in the console market. But innovators are hardly ever as successful as the iterators. This is common in any industry.

Yeah it's not like it's Sony's 'fault' the Saturn lost to the PS1. PS1 was literally a better console at a better price.

What Sega fans are salty at is that the PS2 hype killed the Dreamcast, when the Dreamcast was a fantastic product for the price, even if it did have a name that made it sound like a fishing rod.

And the PS2 hype was based on lies (Toy Story in real time), stretched truths (theoretical polygon counts that could never even exist if being rendered instead of real ones) and a DVD player which had nothing to do with gaming. Dreamcast games literally looked better than PS2 games for the time both were on the shelves, but it got crushed. That's what hurts for them.

Heck the PS2 hype was so out of control people believed all the way through the generation it was more powerful than the much more powerful Gamecube.

The PS2 had a really, really unimpressive start with its first wave of games but was still crushing the Dreamcast. People were joking at the time that it was only doing well because people could watch their fancy new The Matrix DVDs one it.
 

Rising_Hei

Member
SEGA themselves and piracy is to blame, not Sony. (Well, and EA + SE for not supporting SEGA)
Blaming the hype on PS2 is very childish, and in the long run it proved to be truth.

True story is that Sony had consumer trust for the future, and SEGA didn't anymore.

It would have gotten MGS, Resident Evil 2, Tomb Raider sequels, Silent Hill, all Namco's stuff... maybe even Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.
This is stretching the imagination way too much. I'm one of those that got screwed up after ending Shenmue 2 back on the year 2001, but this has always been nosense.
 

GenG3000

Member
Recently a friend gave me a modded Saturn as a present and have been having a lot of fun playing little gems like the Panzer Dragoon series, Nights, Guardian Heroes, Dragon Force and Radiant Silvergun.

I understand why Sega won't venture into consoles, but that's not a reason for neglecting your gaming history. Why the digital shops aren't bursting with games from Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast and arcades is something I cannot understand. They prefer to discontinue awesome digital games like Daytona, Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
True story is that Sony had consumer trust for the future, and SEGA didn't anymore.

This right here.

Sony made all of the right moves with Playstation, and so consumers trusted them to the point where they'd rather have waited for PS2, then get burned buying another short lived Sega console.

It's crazy to think that the Playstation literally outlived two generations of Sega consoles.


I understand why Sega won't venture into consoles, but that's not a reason for neglecting your gaming history. Why the digital shops aren't bursting with games from Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast and arcades is something I cannot understand. They prefer to discontinue awesome digital games like Daytona, Outrun 2 or Afterburner Climax.

I'd like to think they'd make a fortune selling their classic games, because their catalog absolutely DESTROYS everyone else's, including Nintendo. There's just so much variety, and all of it high quality stuff. Nobody else can come close.
 

ReBirFh

Member
Sony still has a lot of catch up to do in regard to games, SEGA is one of the few softhouses that created memorable IP's in almost all genres imaginable. A shame they don't do anything with their old properties.
 

gelf

Member
I'd like to think they'd make a fortune selling their classic games, because their catalog absolutely DESTROYS everyone else's, including Nintendo. There's just so much variety, and all of it high quality stuff. Nobody else can come close.

While I agree with you on the game quality it feels like either the mass market often disagreed or Sega lacked the ability and resources(and obviously still does) to increase awareness on how good its games really are so they probably wouldn't make a fortune bar a few exceptional cases.
 
Please stop breaking my heart. Growing up a Sega fanboy, this shit still hurts. Fuck Sega were the best. By a fucking mile. They took risks, they went out of left field, they got wacky.

None of the big 3 today even dare go near the insanity Sega would sometimes try.

*Raises a glass*

I miss the Sega of Genesis and Dreamcast days. Awesome, crazy stuff.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
It is remarkable, Nintendo has seen and taken all the newcomers/competitors, Sega/Atari, 3DO, NEC, Neo Geo, yet they all fell by the wayside....then the new kids on the block - Sony and Microsoft come in circa 1993-2001 and even though they have gone on into the distance with the Wii U, miles away, Nintendo is ultimately still standing.
 
I remember the sentiment in 2001 being, "this is actually good for gamers, because now SEGA can focus their talents on bringing great software to PS2/XB."

:-(

Seriously, why did SEGA games begin to suck almost immediatly after they left hardware?
 

GenG3000

Member
I'd like to think they'd make a fortune selling their classic games, because their catalog absolutely DESTROYS everyone else's, including Nintendo. There's just so much variety, and all of it high quality stuff. Nobody else can come close.

I think they are more or less in the same league. SEGA dominates in crazy, arcade experiences, while Nintendo has the upper hand in adventures and platforming. Both have made amazing contributions to RPGs and SRPGs. Also, Nintendo still makes many awesome games today while SEGA mostly focuses on publishing Platinum games, Yakuza and Hatsune Miku games. Even if Nintendo was behind, they are definitely ahead now.

SEGA released collections years ago, and I definitely love the 3D Classics in 3DS, why they can't release digitally extremely sought games by the hardcore like Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia or Panzer Dragoon Saga?
 

Neff

Member
Culturally speaking, Sony -or at least Playstation- has come to be more relevant than Sega's hardware contributions, threre's no doubt about that.

However, as far as software creation is concerned, Sony will forever be in Sega's colossal shadow.

Seriously, why did SEGA games begin to suck almost immediatly after they left hardware?

They started re-allocating, mismanaging and chopping up their studios, and the creative decline was evident to anyone.

It's crazy to think that the Playstation literally outlived two generations of Sega consoles.

Not really. Playstation went HUGE after a couple of years on the market, and never really went away for two decades. Sega's only considerable hardware success was the Mega Drive/Genesis.
 

lazygecko

Member
It is remarkable, Nintendo has seen and taken all the newcomers/competitors, Sega/Atari, 3DO, NEC, Neo Geo, yet they all fell by the wayside....then the new kids on the block - Sony and Microsoft come in circa 1993-2001 and even though they have gone on into the distance with the Wii U, miles away, Nintendo is ultimately still standing.

Nintendo is one of those rarities in the industry that has consistently turned a good profit from their products. They don't make insane long term investments for ulterior motives the way Sony and Microsoft does.
 

Laws00

Member
Every video game system for my dad and dads in general were known as segas. To mothers they were known as Nintendos

My nieces had a sega geneis.
3rd grade I wanted one. My dad already got it but I had to ace my spelling test 3 or 4 times. The last test I got 99 or 98. I come home from making the honor roll. I see my dad hooking it up.

I tell him I didnt ace my test. He said its ok. You made the honor roll thats too lol

Rented 32X, inspired all my friends to go rent/buy one for Knuckles Choatix. I never got a 32x but i have my friends game.

Sega Saturn. My friend wanted like 50 bucks or something for his. He said it was special. Would never let have it for a deal. One day he needs money, I give him 30 buck for it. Play the fuck out of it. Realize the control ports are messed up. and the power thingy is loose. I let my friend and his dad borrow it and they fix it. A friend of ours sells me his with the memory card adapter, and with some Japanese games too which was strange. I give the Saturn that my friend fixed back to him.

Sega Dreamcast I got for xmas 2003 or 4. Was a modded Japanese one didn't know. Got an American one years later when my ports were going bonkers. But that seems to be fixed now. Strange

My sega systems are strange.

Oh friend gave me our friends sega cd with his genesis in it. Shit don't seem to work. Trying to replace the fuse as we speak.
 

Aesnath

Member
I remember the sentiment in 2001 being, "this is actually good for gamers, because now SEGA can focus their talents on bringing great software to PS2/XB."

:-(

Seriously, why did SEGA games begin to suck almost immediatly after they left hardware?

I think a big issue with SEGA's decline overall was the death of the arcade industry. If you think about, SEGA made great arcade and arcade-style games. The Genesis was really quite special in terms of bringing that experience home. However, that type of gameplay, and the brands associated with it, diminished greatly during the shift from 16 to 32 bit. Combined with hardware mismanagement on SEGA's part, SEGA properties lost a lot of prestige. By the time that the Dreamcast failed, SEGA's arcade properties were even less of a draw, which hurt their viability as a 3rd party. Unfortunately, their attempts at redefining established games or trying new things were generally underwhelming (IMO) because they shifted their focus from what they were good at.
 

Percy

Banned
What Sega fans are salty at is that the PS2 hype killed the Dreamcast, when the Dreamcast was a fantastic product for the price,

So they blame Sony because they are salty everyone didn't want the same product they did? That really just sounds like good old fashioned fanboyism to me, tbh.

and a DVD player which had nothing to do with gaming.

Except of course for the fact that games came on DVDs, because CDs were no longer sufficient as a long term option. Even those proprietary Dreamcast discs didn't stop that console from having games that needed up to 4 discs. DVDs were a necessity at that point.

Dreamcast games literally looked better than PS2 games for the time both were on the shelves,

I never saw anything on Dreamcast that I thought looked nearly as good as games like The Bouncer or Zone of Enders (Or MGS2, which was at least available in demo form before the Dreamcast was canned.). I know there were some games were the PS2 versions were shittier than the Dreamcast versions, but I honestly don't think the Dreamcast would have been capable of running many of the titles that came out on PS2 (Such as the aforementioned MGS2).

There's certainly a case to be made that the launch titles on the Dreamcast made a much stronger case for that console than the launch titles on PS2 ever did for it, but I don't think that was a situation that lasted too long.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Well, more important is the fact that the Sega Saturn would have been the only 3D console for over one year before the launch of the N64.

Though Sega never really pushed the 3D aspect like Sony, the Playstation was the console for 3D gaming in the heads of the people.

From what I read back then the Saturn was intended to be a 2D system. Sega only tacked 3D onto the system after finding out Sony was going big on 3D with Playstation. Probably the reason why Saturn was such a pita to develop for.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
While I agree with you on the game quality it feels like either the mass market often disagreed or Sega lacked the ability and resources(and obviously still does) to increase awareness on how good its games really are so they probably wouldn't make a fortune bar a few exceptional cases.

Oh yeah, I don't believe for a second they'd be massively successful. While we'd lap up games like Golden Axe Death Adder's Revenge or Super GT, the masses wouldn't care.
 

D.Lo

Member
I remember the sentiment in 2001 being, "this is actually good for gamers, because now SEGA can focus their talents on bringing great software to PS2/XB."
You just described the exact problem by saying 'PS2/XB'.

They released games on Gamecube, and they sold millions (Monkey Ball, Sonic).
They released even better games on Xbox, and they flopped (Panzer Dragoon, Jet Set Radio, Shenmue).

So what did they do next? Rather than giving Virtua Fighter or Shenmue or Panzer Dragoon a go on the Gamecube, they just moved Sonic and Monkey Ball to the #^^ing Xbox and PS2 too. Gamecube got Billy Hatcher :/

Even as a third party they were incapable of following the money.
 

Klart

Member
Yeah, we really need a Sega Mega Drive Collection for Next Gen

What should be on it?

I took account of already existing ports/emulations, which should make things easier I guess (for Sega).

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
Alien Storm
Altered Beast
Beyond Oasis/The Story of Thor
Bonanza Bros
Columns
Comix Zone
Decap Attack
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Dynamite Headdy
Ecco the Dolphin
Ecco: The Tides of Time
ESWAT: City Under Siege
Fatal Labyrinth
Flicky
Gain Ground
Golden Axe
Golden Axe II
Golden Axe III
Gunstar Heroes
Kid Chameleon
Phantasy Star II
Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom
Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millennium
Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi
Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention
Shining Force II: The Ancient Seal[
Shining in the Darkness
Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master
Sonic & Knuckles
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3
Sonic 3D Flickies Island/Blast
Sonic Spinball
Streets of Rage
Streets of Rage 2
Streets of Rage 3
Super Thunder Blade
ToeJam & Earl
ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron
Vectorman
Vectorman 2

Master system / older arcade titles as unlockables/extras? After Burner 1 & 2, Alex Kidd in Miracle World, Space Harrier, Outrun, Wonder Boys...


Or maybe a Sega Dreamcast Collection for Next Gen?

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2
Jet Set Radio
Crazy Taxi
Sega Bass Fishing
Space Channel 5: Part 2
Virtua Athlete
and maybe even not yet ported games like
Virtua Fighter 3,
Shenmue 1 & 2,
Skies of Arcadia,
Outtrigger,
Last Bronx

Maybe Saturn/newer arcade titles could be added as unlockables/extras like

Nights,
Daytona,
Sonic The Fighters,
Fighting Vipers
Virtua Fighter 2,
After Burner Climax,
Panzer Dragoon...
 

sörine

Banned
This is stretching the imagination way too much. I'm one of those that got screwed up after ending Shenmue 2 back on the year 2001, but this has always been nosense.
The rumor was that DQVII went from 64DD to Saturn before ultimately ending up on PS1. It's not that hard to believe really given Enix did support Saturn anyway early on.
 
From what I read back then the Saturn was intended to be a 2D system. Sega only tacked 3D onto the system after finding out Sony was going big on 3D with Playstation. Probably the reason why Saturn was such a pita to develop for.

Not entirely true, it WAS going to have some 3D support, just nowhere near the level of what Sony was doing. Hence the rapid redesign of the internals, and the Frankenstein of a system we ended up getting. It was also a lot more expensive than it otherwise would have been.

Essentially the original Saturn was going to be closer to a System 32, with some ability to do Model 1 style stuff, they weren't forward thinking enough in its original design, partially IMO, to keep their 3d arcade stuff more exclusive.

Then again, Sega Japan was just kinda making bad decisions all around in that era.
 
It is remarkable, Nintendo has seen and taken all the newcomers/competitors, Sega/Atari, 3DO, NEC, Neo Geo, yet they all fell by the wayside....then the new kids on the block - Sony and Microsoft come in circa 1993-2001 and even though they have gone on into the distance with the Wii U, miles away, Nintendo is ultimately still standing.

This is the benefit of having first party focus platforms and building up your franchises. The games that sell Nintendo systems are only available on Nintendo systems. While other system sellers like Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear, and Final Fantasy jump and cross ships, games like Zelda and Smash cannot. As long as you have people who want to play Zelda and Mario Kart, you will have people buying Nintendo platforms.

When you combine that with this

Nintendo is one of those rarities in the industry that has consistently turned a good profit from their products. They don't make insane long term investments for ulterior motives the way Sony and Microsoft does.

you get a company that can be easy to defeat but near impossible to kill. The Wii U may have low sales but it is still profitable despite pretty much only selling to hardcore Nintendo fans. Nintendo can have nothing but Wii U-like sales for their products for the rest of their history and they will still post a profit.
 

gelf

Member
You just described the exact problem by saying 'PS2/XB'.

They released games on Gamecube, and they sold millions (Monkey Ball, Sonic).
They released even better games on Xbox, and they flopped (Panzer Dragoon, Jet Set Radio, Shenmue).

So what did they do next? Rather than giving Virtua Fighter or Shenmue or Panzer Dragoon a go on the Gamecube, they just moved Sonic and Monkey Ball to the #^^ing Xbox and PS2 too. Gamecube got Billy Hatcher :/

Even as a third party they were incapable of following the money.
I agree that making Xbox exclusives was a mistake, though I'd say virtually everything should have been on the the most popular system by a mile the PS2. But yes those games on either GC or PS2 or preferably both would have likely done better then they did on the Halo machine.

The worst thing is regardless of system chosen they fragmented the loyal Sega fanbase and didn't give them a clear next system to get thier fix. Like Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter? well tough you need 2 systems. My owning all 3 consoles that gen was largely thanks to Sega doing this. I imagine many other people where less dedicated then me.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Keep in mind though (I only recently found this out couple of months back) Saturn started taking shape in 1992...And back in 1992-1993, bringing out a top-end 2d system, Sega would have maybe have fared better with the Saturn....but come late 94 early 95 - 3d was in fashion....and to think that Sega was so forward thinking with their arcade boards, collaborating with Lockheed Martin et all....yet on the domestic front....they were more "conservative" to say the least...
 

SimonM7

Member
There were Sega consoles all of my childhood, and childhood = at least one lifetime. SO TRY AGAIN, SONY. Which... they already did. And have been there for all of someone else's childhood. As disturbing as that is.

People are born later than I was! Gross!
 
"In 20 years Sega's console market will sadly probably will be remembered the same was Hudson Soft/NEC's console market was remembered: "

No.

No.

Just not even close.

Sega's "console market" brought us thousands of games, across four major home systems. The Mega Drive was the lead system in a fair few territories.

Hudson Soft/NEC's offerings were barely a blip on the radar.

There are people NOW that don't remember NEC's systems, but anybody over the age of 20 remembers the Dreamcast, Saturn, and Megadrive, with the Master System being warmly remembered by many of the slightly older crowd.
 
Seriously, why did SEGA games begin to suck almost immediatly after they left hardware?

Two things.

First off...they didn't. After the Dreamcast died Sega soon released Shinobi, Phantasy Star Online Episodes I & II, Gunvalkyrie, Shenmue II, Jet Set Radio Future, House of the Dead III, Super Monkey Ball, Virtua Fighter 4, Toe Jam & Earl III, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Sega GT 2002, and Billy Hatcher. These games seem to be in line with the Dreamcast philosophy and quality. This is why the Xbox was commonly called "The Dreamcast 2" back in the day as it had so many titles that would have previously been exclusive to the Dreamcast had it not died. The problem was the exact problem that plagued Sega with the Dreamcast, most of these games just didn't appeal to the market at the time. I mean yeah Shinobi and Jet Set Radio Future are great games and all, but at the time when people were salivating on the cinematic nature of Metal Gear Solid 2 and the "holy shit I can do whatever I want!" in Grand Theft Auto III, it didn't really appeal to people. As most of these games underperformed, Sega tried to figure out just how to make their games profitable which led to them taking a different route from their previous philosophy. If you want to be technical about it, the Sega that we once knew didn't really die until late 2003 after the release of Outrun 2.

The second reason is, as you likely guessed, restructuring. Sega wasn't making that much money after leaving the console business. Because at the end of the day games like Panzer Dragoon Orta aren't going to be multi-million sellers. The post-console enthusiasm soon went away and Sega slowed down their "Sega console games for everyone!" mentality. But things really went south when Sega became owned by Sammy. Sammy pretty much constructed Sega of Japan to be mostly arcade focus, and when I mean arcade focus I mean mostly on super safe sports titles at best to pachinko machines at worst. Prime example were Smilebit and Overworks. In case you aren't familiar with them, Smilebit developed Jet Set Radio, Jet Set Radio Future, and Panzer Dragoon Orta. Overworks developed Skies of Arcadia, Shinobi, and House of the Dead III. Again not the best selling games (besides Shinobi which wasn't far from being a million seller) but were great in quality and were clearly responsible for Sega's image. As a result Sega tried to make these studios profitable.As a result, quality suffered. For example due to the changes Smiliebit began to make nothing but soccer games and and horse derby racing games. That's right they went from working on Panzer Dragoon to working on horse derby games... While Overworks...didn't really make anything again (I'll get to that in a minute). Sammy's chairman became Sega's CEO in August of 2003, which likely had a huge influence on what games the company released. If you remember, 2003 was the last year Sega consistently released their "Sega-like" trademark games.

But if you want to find an exact date of when things went to shit, it was July 1st, 2004. That is the day the Sega of the old truly "died". Sega was brought and absorbed into Sammy and as a result many of Sega's best developers including Smilebit, Amusement Vision, and Sega Rosso were dismantled. This also included Overworks who seemed to stop making games a few months earlier. I guess once Sega was headed by Sammy, they decided to just have some of these studios to stop developing games to prepare for the inevitable merger.

And that's more or less it. It's pretty sad because 2003 was the last year Sega that we knew existed, and that was the year the company FINALLY posted a (albeit tiny) profit. Possibly if the company held on things could have turned out different, but I doubt it. They just didn't have games that could have been massive sellers.
 

petran79

Banned
Sega of America developer studios in Los Angeles were later bought by Microsoft. That branch of Microsoft was the only one to produce decent games for Xbox afterwards
 

Xenus

Member
Nintendo is one of those rarities in the industry that has consistently turned a good profit from their products. They don't make insane long term investments for ulterior motives the way Sony and Microsoft does.

I'd say they turn profits becuase they not only don't take risks but becuase they don't heavily invest in turning around failing products like Sony did with the PS3 which can be argued is why they are so far behind with the Wii-U and the only way people see out of that trend is another one off different think at the exact right time like the WiiU. It's hard to argue the PS4 would have been in the place it is now if Sony hadn't invested massively in the PS3 to turn it around and had taken the Nintendo route where they were content to ride out the generation and take what little profit they could from the device. Of course Nnintendo's 1st party games and their handheld dominance definately helped them there.
 

Celine

Member
There are people NOW that don't remember NEC's systems, but anybody over the age of 20 remembers the Dreamcast, Saturn, and Megadrive, with the Master System being warmly remembered by many of the slightly older crowd.
You'll be surprised then, many of my friends don't know Sega released another console after the Mega Drive and that's not because they are young (they are not).
 
I'd say they turn profits becuase they not only don't take risks

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Nintendo probably takes more risks than Sony and Microsoft combined.
 
Did I read recently that Sega is focusing on the PC/mobile market going forward? I'd love to see them port an updated Shenmue/Shenmue II, along with Skies of Arcadia, Panzeer Dragoon, maybe a new Streets of Rage with the modern trimmings. I mean these are revered franchises in their respective genres, why are they sitting on them especially with the retro craze going on?
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Unless Sammy allows it there will be no more Streets of Rage, ShenMue like games..even for mobiles...
 
you get a company that can be easy to defeat but near impossible to kill. The Wii U may have low sales but it is still profitable despite pretty much only selling to hardcore Nintendo fans. Nintendo can have nothing but Wii U-like sales for their products for the rest of their history and they will still post a profit.

This is absolute nonsense. As an overall project WiiU is still probably heavily in the red. It has only made some very small amount of money during last year. 3DS is the reason why they have turned some profits during some quarters this gen. New WiiU like disaster would almost certainly lead to rather big losses because game development gets more and more expensive and 4DS will probably sell less than 3DS.
 
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