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SEGA Rally: Better deformation than Motorstorm?

Jun 25, 2006
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As promised, a motherload of information regarding the next-gen SEGA Rally. As in my previous topic, I've bolded the most important parts since the preview is quite lengthy. It contains information about the engine, the changes in the gameplay and about the development studio itself (which was founded in 2005 solely for games like this).

X-Power preview said:
Before we actually write our impressions of SEGA Rally, let us begin with a little history lesson of the franchise the representative gave us. The original SEGA Rally dates from 1995 and was released as an arcade machine with two chairs and dito steering wheels. The graphics were on a very high level in their time and the first game of the franchise is still an overwhelming success, even today. In fact: it’s the most SEGA’s most profitable arcade game yet! There’s even a cabinet in the United Kingdom that swallowed more than 750 000 British pounds, or more than a million euro’s, which is no mere feat! Later, the game was also ported to the PC and the Saturn, but wasn’t nearly as succesful.

SEGA Rally 2 arrived a few years later in the arcades and the Dreamcast, reviving the series with somewhat deeper gameplay and more options. This game would eventually turn into one of the most beloved game on SEGA’s visionary 6th generation console. After a few ports of this iteration, this series would be covered in silence for another few years, until the PS2 received SEGA Rally: The Anniversary Edition in 2006. It became the worst game in the series by far, which is mostly the case with compilation games, but that aside…

Yet SEGA wasn’t satisfied with such a blame on one of their treasured franchises and they wish to correct that mistake with a next-gen SEGA Rally for Xbox 360, PS3 and PC at the end of the year. The game will – for your information – carry the suffice ‘Revo’ in Amerika, because it’s supposed to go hand-in-hand with a revolutionizing entree for the series. Which is necessary in this case, considering they developed this game from the ground up for Western gamers, hoping it will make a comeback in said part of the global hemisphere.

The introductory part of the presentation in Amsterdam contained comparisons between the old and new SEGA Rally, especially concerning graphical details. For instance: the first SEGA Rally had environments consisting out of 20 000 triangles. Pretty weak in this day and age, but you mustn’t forget that in it’s time (already 12 years ago) these were pretty impressive. Next-gen consoles won’t be easily intimidated by this and plans to provide us with levels built out of 20 million triangles! Furthermore, this new SEGA Rally will include cars with 65 000 polygons each, which should provide us plenty of eye candy. All of this should normally run on a constant 60 frames per second and at 1080p; my hat off to SEGA should they attain this goal in the retail version. We couldn’t actually get any confirmation though whether or not the Xbox 360-version will support the same resolution, but we were assured both versions will look exactly alike in every way.

Let’s follow up with some words about the studio behind the latest iteration of the ever so famous series shall we? SEGA Rally Studio was founded in April 2005 and is located in Solihul, in the rainy West Midlands of the United Kingdom to be precise. Currently, they have about 50 members and most of them (if not all) are ex-employees from other well-known studios. Codemasters, Criterion, Rare and Rockstar North for example. The main purpose of this development company is to offer us next-gen racing games from old and new IP’s and they take their job seriously. Mark Fisher, whom gave us the presentation, assured us that the basement of SEGA Racing Studio is literally filled with arcade cabinets, so that they can look for inspiration at all times if they don’t have an idea where to go next for a while. Perhaps we’ll give some false hope to die-hard fans with our next comment, but what the hell: when asked by other members of the press whether or not the next project of this company will be Daytona USA, we were met with a “maybe”. Mark Fisher also replied with a “who knows!”, when asked if there’ll ever be an arcade version of this new SEGA Rally.

Now, the most important of racing games are of course the cars themselves. There will be more than 30 cars available in the latest SEGA, each with four different car classes: 4WD, 2WD, Classic and Bonus. Classic practically speaks for itself: there will be a few vehicles from the previous games. We don’t know which ones will reappear, as the subject was hardly discussed. It’s also possible by the way that these classic cars will be potentially unlockable, just like the Bonus Cars. We know very little of these as well, but it wouldn’t surprise us if they have a lot of extra power under the hood, considering the fact that the sense of speed was already satisfying. Each car will also provide you three different pre-sets, depending on what kind of ground they have to race on. Typical Paris-Dakar vehicles will obviously come in hand in the desert, while other cars will be more suitable for ice tracks, wet surfaces or just plain asphalt. You won’t be able to manually configure these pre-sets however, which was the case in previous installments.

The biggest feature SEGA Racing Studio loves to boast about in this game, are the environments and this for many reasons. For starters: they paid a lot attention to the level designs so that the environments look gorgeous. We only got to take a gander at one sadly, but it was – especially for an older January build – already rather impressive. Said jungle level had some features that other environments could lack, namely large draw distances and big sections of forest. It’s only natural that you won’t find much bystanders in the rainforest, unless you take a bunch of mosquito’s into consideration. But nevertheless, there will be more spectators in fitting locations.

The second reason why environments are so important, is because of the Track Deformation, which will undoubtedly be the most discussed topic whenever SEGA Rally is mentioned. What’s the idea behind this feature? Imagine driving through a sandy track with the ocassional water puddle or two. After a few laps, the entire surface will be changed so drastically, that no round will ever be the same. Creating muddy tire tracks, grinding the top layer, expanding the puddles et al will be possible during the entire race.

Maybe it’s for the best to explain what we saw with a clear example. At the beginning of the jungle level, you start with a hard surface where the tire tracks are hardly visible. When you advance however, the structure of the surface will become less tight and a couple of mud puddles will originate as a result. Drive through these muddy parts of the track and you will create deep tire tracks that not only improve your traction, but also entirely change of the outlook of the racing track. Because of this, your car will visibly bounce up and down and will also covered with a hefty amount of mud, something you can actually see on your vehicle. A nice little detail is that you can remove the mud by driving through puddles of water, which in their turn act as a carwash, instantly cleansing your car. In other words: the Track Deformation will have a noticeable influence on the gameplay, unlike Motorstorm, where it mainly served as a fancy graphical effect. We agree with such statements from Mark Fisher in any case, now that we’ve seen SEGA Rally with our own eyes.

There will be other important physics to the gameplay besides the Track Deformation. The weight of your car for instance will help decide the road holding (as well as how badly the track will change) and there will be a handful of graphical effects to admire. In the code that they demonstrated were plentiful minor details, such as kickback of sand, mud and water – all of them were a Work-in-Progress by the by – but we noticed they’re also a part of the gameplay. The unlucky racer that’s way in the back, will possibly have to think in advance when he will pass one of his opponents, thanks to an obstructed view. These kind of physics will expand in the final version, with fluttering leaves of breakable wooden fences. Or to quote Mark Fisher: “even the side parts of the main course will be submitted to Track Deformation, including grass”. Not only that, but it seems that the (in theory) impressive weather ‘simulation’ of Project Gotham Racing 4 also had an impact on the developers, due to the fact different weather conditions were promised. When it rains, the course will be filled with mud in no time, which will naturally give an advantage to off-road vehicles. This change in weather won’t happen in real time mind you: it will only differ per track. Don’t expect any extreme physics calculations either, seen in Forza Motorsport 2.

You might be wondering: sooner or later we’ll have to discuss the actual gameplay, next to the graphical splendor and possible influences to the replay value of the game and don’t you worry: we’ll get to it in a minute. The SEGA Rally franchise, right from the beginning, has been known for its intense playing style and this will be retained in the next-gen sequel. Wholly different to the point-to-point racing of the older games, is the new approach of SEGA Rally Revo. Here you’ll have to approach your opponents very closely and sometimes even give them a strategical nudge in the back to increase your position to eventually defend the first place during three laps, all at blazing speeds. This kind of gameplay reminds of us the term ‘arcadey’, but they want to avoid that as much as possible by creating this very complete game with a ton of unlockables and extra’s. Mark Fisher also gave us the very reason why they didn’t choose for the old-fashioned way in this next-gen edition: SEGA only used the aforementioned checkpoint system due to technical reasons.

The company also tries to make the game feel more 'realistic' in a way by introducing solid graphics and the Track Deformation, but they don’t want to bring in the bad sides of realism to the gameplay either, like being slowed down because of damage. At the same time, the representative mentioned “Hollywood damage” to further describe their damage models. Your cars won’t be made of plastic as they will be visibly damaged eventually, but there won’t be any consequences to the performance of your car. We have no idea whether or not they’ll go as far Rallisport Challenge 2 though, where seperate parts were yanked from your vehicle as you tumbled off a cliff. It’s also possible you will be spun out by your opponents through a gentle tap at the rear bumper during a turn, but this is something the creators would like to avoid as much as possible. They don’t want to frustrate the player, to the extent he hits the reset button as soon as he’s behind the other racers. This doesn’t mean each race will be void of suspense, because this is where some slight rubberband A.I. will kick in. Said intelligence is kind of excessive in games like Burnout or Motorstorm, but SEGA Racing Studio wants their A.I. to be reasonable so that the players won’t end up being irritated. In other words: they want to make sure a race will only be decided at the finish line, instead of continuously bothering you through the opposition. This kind of attitude should give the game a higher replay value.

Another important element in any racing game, are the camera positions. SEGA Rally Revo will have four of those: two of which will be first-person and the other two third-person. The first two camera’s are located on the bumper and the hood of your car, while the third-person views will either show you a close-up of your car, or will be removed further than normal for maximum viewability. Sadly, the most wanted cockpit view is missing, something which will disappoint a couple of racing fans. This seems to be intentional though, so that SEGA doesn’t collide with the (sort of) ‘arcadey’ gameplay. Which in its turn, isn’t a beloved expression for Mark Fisher.

When we think of arcadey gameplay, we don’t necessarily think about a multitude of modes. These kind of games are supposedly all about instant accessibility after all, with a hefty dose of instant fun. This is something SEGA tries to blend in the latest installment, coupled with deeper gameplay. We only got to see one single player mode though, namely Championship; a new 10-Year Career Mode à la SEGA Rally 2 or a tour-de-force mode on the other hand, are very unlikely. Anywho, in Championship you compete in this large tournament on a couple of circuits against six other competitors in the retail version - We only saw 5 A.I. drivers in the January build. There’s also a more accentuated focus on fun with more than one player: there will online functions no matter what, as well as split-screen multiplayer. It isn’t clear at the moment how much players will be supported, but we’re hoping they’ll go as far The Club by including 4-player split-screen. SEGA is also planning ‘ghost downloads’ so that you can visibly compete against the best of times, next to online leaderboards and naturally online play itself.

There isn’t much to say about the music right about now, knowing that we only saw one track. SEGA did inform us that they are currently experimenting with the music, so that the soundtrack fits with the track and the competitive side of the game. Old familiar tunes won’t return (as well as the commentator), but they’re trying to keep the same tone so that those who love ‘The Sound of SEGA Rally’ will instantly remember these. Other than that, there’s very little to express about the remaining audio: the engines sound well and small details are very noticable. The mud for example lets off this juicy, squishing sound whenever you drive on it.

Finally, potential extra’s were discussed that may or may not be a part of the game. As expected, they weren’t willing to inform us about downloadable content, but Mark Fisher did provide us small hints concerning actual unlockables. Sonic will appear “somewhere in the game” and there will also be a couple of familiar moments from previous games returning as cameo’s (such as the helicopter). SEGA is also considering the inclusion of the original SEGA Rally, but they’re still on the edge about this because of the recently released Anniversary Edition. Which, as we all know, didn’t do too well.

In a period where racing games are slowly returning in a glorious fashion after a disappointing 2006, it is very important for SEGA Rally to differeniate itself from other games to draw sufficient attention. Figures, with local competition (sort of) from Forza Motorsport 2, Project Gotham Racing 4, FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage and Colin McRae: DIRT, let alone the games on other platforms. But SEGA Rally actually succeeds to do just that from the looks of it, by delivering a feeling that we don’t see in any other similar next-gen racer. Not even in DIRT or Motorstorm, by far their biggest ‘rivals’. Are you craving for semi-realistic steering, then you’re looking up the wrong bush and you’d better for Codemasters game. Are you actually looking for a game similar to Rallisport Challenge 2 to fill the void DICE left, then without a doubt SEGA Rally is a game to look forward to. Add advanced Track Deformations and pretty graphics, and we realised at the end of the presentation that SEGA Rally could turn into an excellent debut for SEGA Racing Studio. If they can work things as promised, that is.

Expect SEGA Rally Revo in your store, starting from the fourth quarter of this year. The game itself is currently 80% complete.
Other than that, you can also read our interview with Mark Fisher, which gives us more insight in SEGA's philosophy for this game. It also answered some of the questions that were asked to me in a different topic, so hopefully everyone will be satisfied with all this information.

The new screenshots below aren't that different compared to the older ones, but I can personally attest that these are in fact in-game. My apologies for a wee bit of compression, and you can see the rest of 'em in the gallery.





 

Mmmkay

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In other words: the Track Deformation will have a noticeable influence on the gameplay, unlike Motorstorm, where it mainly served as a fancy graphical effect.
tsc tsc.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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Bad_Boy said:
:/ I thought it was coming sooner than that.
Was never an official statement from what I can remember. Currently, it's Q4 / Winter 2007. Nevertheless, the actual game seems pretty much finished, but they're now using the remaining time for overall polish.
 

antiloop

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Jun 20, 2006
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Did he even play Motorstorm? Seems like a no..

This game will have like 6 cars in a race and Motorstorm has at least double the amount.
 

pswii60

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I think you went a bit over-board on the bold there.

Motorstorm's deformation definitely had an effect on the physics though, I think?
 

jet1911

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pswii60 said:
I think you went a bit over-board on the bold there.

Motorstorm's deformation definitely had an effect on the physics though, I think?

If it have one I've never noticed it.

Nice preview MicVlad, can't wait to see this game in motion. :D
 
Jun 25, 2006
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antiloop said:
Did he even play Motorstorm? Seems like a no..

This game will have like 6 cars in a race and Motorstorm has at least double the amount.
Read the interview: he did.

I played it myself as well for three hours, a couple of days before the press event. Admittedly, that isn't long enough to get know a game properly, but I also tinkered with its track deformation for close to 30 minutes with different vehicles. It didn't change much to the track during my playtime and the improvement of your traction was only subtle.

That said: the track deformation in SEGA Rally seems much more advanced from what I saw.

pswii60 said:
I think you went a bit over-board on the bold there.

Motorstorm's deformation definitely had an effect on the physics though, I think?
Don't know: didn't notice much differences when I got to try it. Need more time with Motorstorm though for a conclusive answer.

And yeah, a little overkill on the bold there. But you know, otherwise no one will even read it. :p
 
May 16, 2006
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pswii60 said:
I think you went a bit over-board on the bold there.

Motorstorm's deformation definitely had an effect on the physics though, I think?

Yeah. It does. And the way the effect changes from lap to lap as the ruts get dug deeper and the track gets sloppier is pretty profound.

Unfortunately the author doesn't seem to know what he's talking about RE: Motorstorm. He probably should have left that bit out, but I suppose since he writes for an XBox site, the author may have felt pressure to downplay a prominent PS3 title. This is unfortunate. It puts a stain on a pretty good preview article.
 

Bad_Boy

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MicVlaD said:
Was never an official statement from what I can remember. Currently, it's Q4 / Winter 2007. Nevertheless, the actual game seems pretty much finished, but they're now using the remaining time for overall polish.
Oh, I never knew the date I guess I just always thought it wasnt that far away. Like a late summer title. Ah well, nothing I can do.

pswii60 said:
Motorstorm's deformation definitely had an effect on the physics though, I think?
It did. Though never really race ending in my experience (meaning making you crash into a wall or something like that). Go online and do a 5 lap race with 12 cars and the first lap is way different from the last lap, especially on a bike.

or just mess around in the junk yard of that one track (can't remember the name, but it's a big pit with tons of mud). Turn the camera to the side and drive over your old tracks and you can see the suspension move up and down accordingly.
 

Mau ®

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So? Motorstorm is a launch effort and this is not. Im sure Motorstorm 2 will astonish...

Looks good BTW.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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Pristine_Condition said:
Yeah. It does. And the way the effect changes from lap to lap as the ruts get dug deeper is pretty profound.

Unfortunately the author doesn't seem to know what he's talking about RE: Motorstorm. He probably should have left that bit out, but I suppose since he writes for an XBox site, the author may have felt pressure to downplay a prominent PS3 title. This is unfortunate. It puts a stain on a pretty good preview article.
Wasn't his personal opinion per sé: it was the representative that 'took a jab' at Motorstorm and we added that in our preview. We didn't feel any pressure to add that kind of information purely because we're an Xbox site though: we only wanted to write the most complete preview of the game based on the presentation, since (like The Club) there is very little known about the game and its background.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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There, decreased the bolding. Also, for those who didn't read the interview yet: there will be force feedback (at least on the 360):

Mark Fisher said:
There will be four different camera views: two of them will be in third-person (one close to the car, one further), a hood cam and bumper view. There will be no dashboard view, but there will be force feedback on the Xbox 360: we’ve tried it with the Forza 2 wheel, it works and it feels incredible!

Regarding the PlayStation 3 version: the ball is in Sony's court. We’d like to add force feedback in one way or another and we’re currently negotiating with Sony, but we’re not making any promises. The situation is also a little different than on the Xbox 360, considering the lack of rumble in the Sixaxis controller.
 

Bad_Boy

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Jun 15, 2006
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MicVlaD said:
There, decreased the bolding. Also, for those who didn't read the interview yet: there will be force feedback (at least on the 360):
Theres no reason FFB shouldn't be in the game, especially if it's coming Q4 and GTHD and other games have it now. Do it sega, do it.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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Luckyman said:
Which version are they showing?
They showed the PS3 version. Framerate could use some finetuning, but it certainly was as bad as in the DIRT video's. Both are a Work-in-Progress, so expect both development companies to get it right in the end.
 

dark10x

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Pristine_Condition said:
Yeah. It does. And the way the effect changes from lap to lap as the ruts get dug deeper and the track gets sloppier is pretty profound.

Unfortunately the author doesn't seem to know what he's talking about RE: Motorstorm. He probably should have left that bit out, but I suppose since he writes for an XBox site, the author may have felt pressure to downplay a prominent PS3 title. This is unfortunate. It puts a stain on a pretty good preview article.
It does have an effect on the game, but it wasn't anywhere near the level of what was promised as they had to resort to using parallax texture maps. Still, it looks fantastic...



 

TekunoRobby

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There is no track deformation in Motorstorm. There is however a great looking parallax map being laid down in real-time along with a slight alteration to the ground's collision box (the physics you speak of) to immitate actual geometric distortion.
 

mckmas8808

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MicVlaD said:
They showed the PS3 version. Framerate could use some finetuning, but it certainly was as bad as in the DIRT video's. Both are a Work-in-Progress, so expect both development companies to get it right in the end.



YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Ynos Yrros

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Tyrant said:
And half the stages :D
Which are four times more expansive :D
I don't really know that, just playing

I hope that SR delivers once again. I want an all out arcade rally game in which I can just go through the track sideways, splashing mud all around. The preview sure makes it sound awesome.
 
Jun 25, 2006
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Ynos Yrros said:
Which are four times more expansive :D
I don't really know that, just playing

I hope that SR delivers once again. I want an all out arcade rally game in which I can just go through the track sideways, splashing mud all around. The preview sure makes it sound awesome.
Don't know whether that'll be possible in the retail version, but what I did notice from the jungle track, was that it didn't look like a simple track with a bunch of straights. Like New York in Project Gotham Racing 3 for example. It had its fair share of turns and plenty of elevations, so if they keep it up with all the other tracks (or go even further), then SEGA Rally will certainly be a fun racing game. The sense of speed also seemed pretty equal to the previous SEGA Rally's whenever the build ran on a fluid 60 fps.
 

Ynos Yrros

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MicVlaD said:
Don't know whether that'll be possible in the retail version, but what I did notice from the jungle track, was that it didn't look like a simple track with a bunch of straights. Like New York in Project Gotham Racing 3 for example. It had its fair share of turns and plenty of elevations, so if they keep it up with all the other tracks (or go even further), then SEGA Rally will certainly be a fun racing game. The sense of speed also seemed pretty equal to the previous SEGA Rally's whenever the build ran on a fluid 60 fps.
Thanks for the info, you're really lucky to be ablke to witness games before everyone else does.

I noticed the bit about 1080p, was the game running at that resolution, or did they just said that it will, also do you know if it was/will/might be native 1080p, or upscaled like VF5?
And finally, what TVs did they use to demo the game?
 
Jun 25, 2006
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Ynos Yrros said:
Thanks for the info, you're really lucky to be ablke to witness games before everyone else does.

I noticed the bit about 1080p, was the game running at that resolution, or did they just said that it will, also do you know if it was/will/might be native 1080p, or upscaled like VF5?
And finally, what TVs did they use to demo the game?
Don't know if it actually ran at 1080p. I know it wasn't native in VF5 and I assume that was the same case with VT3 (purely an assumption), so SEGA Rally might be the same as well. However: SEGA Rally is being developed by an entirely new studio after all and after hearing Mark claim they're perfectionists, I wouldn't be surprised if it will be 1080p native. I mean, the majority of its employees came from companies that are known for amazing visuals (Rockstar now thanks to their R.A.G.E. engine), so true 1080p definitely seems possible to my knowledge.

Oh, and they didn't show it on a TV fyi. They displayed it on the big screen of a small movie theater. :)
 

Ynos Yrros

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MicVlaD said:
Don't know if it actually ran at 1080p. I know it wasn't native in VF5 and I assume that was the same case with VT3 (purely an assumption), so SEGA Rally might be the same as well. However: SEGA Rally is being developed by an entirely new studio after all and after hearing Mark claim they're perfectionists, I wouldn't be surprised if it will be 1080p native. I mean, the majority of its employees came from companies that are known for amazing visuals (Rockstar now thanks to their R.A.G.E. engine), so true 1080p definitely seems possible to my knowledge.

Oh, and they didn't show it on a TV fyi. They displayed it on the big screen of a small movie theater. :)
I believe that VT3 was native 1080p. Seriously thanks for the info, it's great that GAF has people like you ;).
 

jmd494

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TekunoRobby said:
There is no track deformation in Motorstorm. There is however a great looking parallax map being laid down in real-time along with a slight alteration to the ground's collision box (the physics you speak of) to immitate actual geometric distortion.

Mud tracks DO affect physics...it's just way too understated.

Don't believe me...take a motorcycle and SLOWLY drive perependicular to a big trucks tire tracks. Use the right anologue stick to see yourself from the side.

If that confused you...I'll put it another way. The camera should be facing the same way as the tire tracks and you should be facing at a 90 degree angle (either way) from the camera angle...AND...you should be SLOWLY driving across the tracks.

You'll see the wheels of your motorcylce dip in and out (rather impressively) of the tracks. :)
 

TekunoRobby

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Justin Dailey said:
Mud tracks DO affect physics...it's just way too understated.

Don't believe me...take a motorcycle and SLOWLY drive perependicular to a big trucks tire tracks. Use the right anologue stick to see yourself from the side.

If that confused you...I'll put it another way. The camera should be facing the same way as the tire tracks and you should be facing at a 90 degree angle (either way) from the camera angle...AND...you should be SLOWLY driving across the tracks.

You'll see the wheels of your motorcylce dip in and out (rather impressively) of the tracks. :)
Re-read what I initially posted then come back to me. Hint: look for the word physics.
 

spwolf

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Justin Dailey said:
Mud tracks DO affect physics...it's just way too understated.

Don't believe me...take a motorcycle and SLOWLY drive perependicular to a big trucks tire tracks. Use the right anologue stick to see yourself from the side.

If that confused you...I'll put it another way. The camera should be facing the same way as the tire tracks and you should be facing at a 90 degree angle (either way) from the camera angle...AND...you should be SLOWLY driving across the tracks.

You'll see the wheels of your motorcylce dip in and out (rather impressively) of the tracks. :)

yeah, they certainly did have track deformation in MS... if someone didnt notice it, they didnt play MS properly or more than few laps.

pretty silly article...
 

jmd494

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TekunoRobby said:
Re-read what I initially posted then come back to me. Hint: look for the word physics.

Touché, salesman <--family guy reference in case you're wondering
 

bumpkin

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Sounds sexy. As someone who doesn't own a PS3 (can't justify the purchase to the fiance and not keen on the price, anyway) and can't just get Motorstorm, I'm excited about Sega Rally Revo. The series so far is 50/50 for me; I loved the original and didn't care for the sequel. Here's hoping for a return to glory!
 

radjago

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I don't get the comparisons to Motorstorm outside of the deformation angle. Rally racing and off-road racing are totally different in my mind. I can only hope they'll live up to the Sega Rally name and make something that will make us not pine so much for Rallisport 3.
 

jmd494

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SolidSnakex said:
It's built on the PS3 so it shouldn't be a big surprise.

Do you know if there will there be any PS3 specific features?

Also...what's going on in your avatar?
 

TekunoRobby

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I think some of you are confusing terrain (or track like its used in this thread) deformation or are being leniant with what it encompasses. The traditional explanation describes the term as actual manipulation to the environment, i.e. moving the environnent's polygons. A recent albeit simple example of terrain deformation is Excite Truck where you can pick up an item that distorts the track ahead of you. In Motostorm there is no actual distortion taking place to the world geometry, the only thing being altered is the ground's "collision box" (simplified explanation) in order to provide plausible physics to go along with the highly detailed parallax map (texture) the car's tires are laying down on the flat ground. Pause the game and move the camera close to the ground when you're driving through mud tracks to see the effect (the divits becomes flat). I think this was a brilliant work around solution in lieu of actual terrain deformation which is completely unecessary considering the performance hit it would've had. Major kudos to Evolution for the mud tracks in the game.
 
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radjago said:
I don't get the comparisons to Motorstorm outside of the deformation angle. Rally racing and off-road racing are totally different in my mind. I can only hope they'll live up to the Sega Rally name and make something that will make us not pine so much for Rallisport 3.
The only comparison that's being made towards Motorstorm, is the track deformation though. The gameplay between the two games is very different, but it is similar to Rallisport Challenge 2 in certain ways.
 

Dahbomb

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Correct me if I am wrong but shouldn't SEGA Rally automatically be "superior" than Motorstorm if it runs at 1080P AND 60FPS and its "competition" does 720P and 30FPS. :lol
 

meltpotato

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it should be "automatically superior" because the deformation in Motorstorm is arcadey and in Sega Rally it is aiming for the feel of, you know, ACTUAL rally racing. (so ****ING excited FYI)
 

Lord Error

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Jun 8, 2004
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TekunoRobby said:
I think some of you are confusing terrain (or track like its used in this thread) deformation or are being leniant with what it encompasses.
I think what MS does could be easily filed under track deformation, as the collision box being affected is what your vehicle is essentially driving on, not the visual representation of the track. Do you know for certain how much simplified the collision surface is compared to the visual track in MS, and if Sega Rally is using the per-polygon collision detection?

What I'm saying is if in MS the collision surface is essentially the same number of polygons as the visual track, and if it has to be deformed as to affect driving physics, it's pretty much the same thing, as the visual track gets it's visual deformation (parallax maps) and collision tracks get it's polygon deformation.
 

1-D_FTW

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MicVlaD: Are you a framerate whore who can easily spots the difference between 30 and 60? I saw you made a post about it being gorgeous when it at 60fps and not sputtering. Are you positive that's what it was running at 60 and not 30?

The preview sounds awesome BTW.
 
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1-D_FTW said:
MicVlaD: Are you a framerate whore who can easily spots the difference between 30 and 60? I saw you made a post about it being gorgeous when it at 60fps and not sputtering. Are you positive that's what it was running at 60 and not 30?

The preview sounds awesome BTW.
My eyes are kind of 'trained' to spot graphical shortcomings yes, though I still have a way to go before I know as much as some people on this board (Tekuno or darkx10 for instance). The Work-in-Progress build they showed wasn't entirely smooth, as the framerate did drop at times (all vehicles in front of you, lots of dust clouds et cetera). But Mark Fisher assured us SEGA Racing Studio won't stop until they've reached 60 fps, and that goal seems very possible for a 80% complete that's still in development for at least half a year.

I got the impression 60 fps will be very important to them, so if anything will be dropped in the future, if at all, then it could be 1080p in favor of a smooth 720p. It has happened before, but with other companies. I could be wrong with this, so don't take my word for it.
 

TekunoRobby

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Marconelly said:
I think what MS does could be easily filed under track deformation,
Except it isn't.
Marconelly said:
as the collision box being affected is what your vehicle is essentially driving on, not the visual representation of the track.
There is a massive amount of technical difference between simple non-rendered geometry whose sole purpose is provide bounding boxes for other geometry and the complex, static, and textured environment that Motorstorm has. There is a reason why terrain deformation is considered quite a technical feat.
Marconelly said:
Do you know for certain how much simplified the collision surface is compared to the visual track in MS, and if Sega Rally is using the per-polygon collision detection?
I wasn't making a comparison to Sega Rally, please don't get confused. Although while we're on the subject I'm assuming they're intelligent enough to not bother with terrain deformation (unless they have a staff of incredibly competant programmers).
Marconelly said:
What I'm saying is if in MS the collision surface is essentially the same number of polygons as the visual track,
It isn't.
Marconelly said:
and if it has to be deformed as to affect driving physics, it's pretty much the same thing,
It isn't.
Marconelly said:
as the visual track gets it's visual deformation (parallax maps) and collision tracks get it's polygon deformation.
That's a brilliant work around and it deserves far more credit than its currently given. While I value the technical feat required to have actual terrain deformation working in a next-gen title I believe an eloquent solution that provides the same physical and visual results with far less of a performance hit is deserving of FAR more praise. And I shall repeat myself: Major kudos to Evolution for the mud tracks in the game.
 

TekunoRobby

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This is of course assuming they're bothering to modify the surface "collision box" itself. For all we know they could've made it even simpler and simply layered down small triangular collision boxes along with the parallel maps. That method is even simpler and you don't have to deal with modifying static geometry by removing/adding polygons or manipulating a dense mesh. These are assumptions though since I've hadn't had the chance to talk with the team since E3 and I haven't played the game in wireframe mode.

I apologize for derailing the thread, I just wanted to clear a few things up. Back to Sega Rally which I'm quite excited for. Hopefully they nail the online mode without a hitch since I'm looking forward to that the most.
 

1-D_FTW

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MicVlaD said:
My eyes are kind of 'trained' to spot graphical shortcomings yes, though I still have a way to go before I know as much as some people on this board (Tekuno or darkx10 for instance). The Work-in-Progress build they showed wasn't entirely smooth, as the framerate did drop at times (all vehicles in front of you, lots of dust clouds et cetera). But Mark Fisher assured us SEGA Racing Studio won't stop until they've reached 60 fps, and that goal seems very possible for a 80% complete that's still in development for at least half a year.

I got the impression 60 fps will be very important to them, so if anything will be dropped in the future, if at all, then it could be 1080p in favor of a smooth 720p. It has happened before, but with other companies. I could be wrong with this, so don't take my word for it.

Music to my ears. Cool.