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Business Analysis Game Dev Sega Reports Console Games Underperformed In Third Quarter.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
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ibiza

New console games released by Sega in the company’s third quarter underperformed, according to a Sega Sammy financial results presentation.

Sega’s lists its major releases during this period (Oct – Dec 2019) as Persona 5 Royal and Sakura Wars for the PlayStation 4 in Japan, and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 for the Nintendo Switch worldwide. Sega notes that “sales went below expectation” and that console game profits decreased year-on-year due to the increased expenses associated with the launch of these new games.

As a result, while revenue increased 26% for the “Packaged Games” segment—the term Sega uses for its console games—profits dropped 43% compared to the year prior. Sega now expects 34% increase in revenue but a 50% decrease in profit from its Packaged Games business for the financial year.

According to sales data from Famitsu, Persona 5 Royal had sold close to 245,000 units and Sakura Wars 160,000 units at retail by the end of December. Meanwhile, global sales figures for Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 have not been publicly divulged.

Sega sold 6.94 million units of new games in its first nine months of the ongoing fiscal year, and an additional 12.39 million units of previously-released games, including those from the Football Manager, Total War, and Yakuza series. The company pointed out that continued sales of previously-released games exceeded expectations.

For its ongoing fourth quarter, Sega lists Yakuza 7 (released last month) and Persona 5 Scramble: The Phantom Strikers (February) as its upcoming major releases in Japan. Additionally, a localized version of Persona 5 Royal will also launch on March 31st, 2020 in the U.S. and Europe.
 

Kazza

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Oct 6, 2018
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Let's hope that increased Western sales can make up for the below-expectations Japanese sales. It doesn't help that the PS4 seems to be on a steep decline in Japan. As for the Sonic/Mario game, it was a little strange for them to release it the year before the actual Olympics. Hopefully sales will pick up as we get closer to the event.

Hopefully sales of previously released games exceeding expectations will mean more PC ports (I assume that this refers to their PC releases, such as Ysakuza etc)
 
Jan 29, 2019
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They release their Sega ages games only on the switch for whatever reason, so the games they release, that I would like, now a days are mostly out of reach for me.
 
Last edited:
Aug 5, 2009
1,650
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995
UK
Recent Sonic games are shit beside Sonic Mania.

No they haven't.. Sakura Wars V is only in Japan and only the PS4 was always going to hurt with sales. Hopfully when it comes to the West, it will also make the jump to GamePass and the One/PC
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
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They need to release their games on all platforms at once. They are a third party developer.

2020 will probably see a new Sonic game so it will help driving sales.
 
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Saber

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Jan 30, 2019
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Strange, I though Olympic games were selling fine. Also, I guess Team Racing is nothing but crap smoke out of All Stars.

Still hope the best for Personna and Yakuza games. Because Sonic, well...if they keep the trend of Forces they gonna be as good as dead.
 
Aug 5, 2009
1,650
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UK
Is Sonic inside Sakura Wars V?

Guys... please, read before quote.

No, but Sonic Forces came out over 2 years ago, so I doubt that would be looking to help with sales for the 3rd quarter 2020
Not that the game is sh8t mind, same goes for Gen and Colors.

Guys... please, play the games before you post
 
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Aug 28, 2019
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I think it's time SEGA focus on a few key marquee IP and really do some grand stuff with them. Take a page from Capcom; they came back from the brink just a few years earlier, and did so by focusing big on select fan-favorite IP and pushing them forward. A lot of times I feel SEGA leaves some of their choice IP languishing and for a lot of the ones they bring back, they don't do enough with them to command bigger attention. That comes down both to production budgets and release schedules/timing (and under-marketing).

Anyways, SEGA at least consider doing some of the following:

>PHANTASY STAR 5: A legit PS4 sequel, with strong single-player focus but allow for some multiplayer ala Dark Souls. Make it a Sonic Team/Atlus team-up project, with the SMT/Persona teams doing stuff like music and character designs in particular.

Make it 3rd-person, with deep and intricate real-time battle system that still retains sensible JRPG mechanics. The scifi setting could make for some epic setpiece battles, channeling things like Mass Effect and Star Wars in scale even, but still have the classic Phantasy Star touch. And make it so that the game can have some type of cross-compatibility with a future Persona or SMT release, maybe with certain items being transferable between games, or certain bonuses unlocking if you find specific items across both games (doesn't mean they have to share the same universe per-se, although maybe if that next Persona game were a Soul Hackers game that could work too).

>FIGHTERS MEGAMIX 2: Basically, bring the deep gameplay the VF games have, but with more interesting characters. Bring back most of the Fighting Vipers chars, throw in some Streets of Rage, Jet Set Radio, Space Harrier, Virtual On etc. characters too and maybe a few of the Virtua Fighter stalwarts. Make a deal with companies like Capcom and SNK, and bring in some Power Stone, Star Gladiator, Fatal Fury etc. characters too. And some Power Instinct chars too, like from Groove-On Fight.

Take the basic Fighting Vipers gameplay but expand on it to be even more unique. Give it some big production values, and a healthy tournament scene.

>PANZER DRAGOON "SAGA" 2: Even if it means a new storyline, a new Panzer Dragoon would be amazing, especially with some high production values. There's no reason to keep it a JRPG or even a rail-shooter, so I think making it an action/adventure game with freedom of movement both on land and in flight within the Panzer Dragoon world could be special.

Expand on Saga's evolution system, give the game a really moving, sweeping and epic storyline, big setpiece battles, and integrate as much of the classic game mechanics as possible, updating where needed, in a cinematic story-driven action/adventure narrative providing that seamless on-foot/flight gameplay with the dragoon and its rider.

>3D STREETS OF RAGE (OR GOLDEN AXE): Upcoming SOR4 looks pretty good and I'm gonna pick it up, but a 3D SoR using the Yakuza engine would be a huge step-up and imho more appealing to the West, particularly America where SoR has a strong fanbase and heavy nostalgia bonding. There's also more that could be done with the SoR setting compared to Yakuza one.

Or, use a modified version of the engine powering the Yakuza games to do a 3D Golden Axe. It's still a shame Revenge of Death Addar never got a home port, as it's arguably the best Golden Axe game, but a 3D Golden Axe could be a perfect bridge in bringing the type of madness Dark Souls fans would enjoy, into an intricate beat'em up setting. Give it a strong storyline and take some inspiration from the Souls-like games as well but in the confines of a beat'em up, and it could be something big.

---

Because as-is, I do worry about SEGA's long-term prognosis. Sonic's appeal has diminished greatly (the upcoming movie seems like it'll actually do pretty well which could help with bringing more attention back to the series, but they need a legit good 3D Sonic to come out which capitalizes. No more Forces or Boom BS), and I think because so many of SEGA's other releases are intentionally kept more mid-scale, they don't market them that much as a result. No matter how good a game is, it won't do much in sales if there's no strong, consistent marketing.

And it's crazy to see they're even in this situation, because among 3rd parties they have the best Metacritic average IIRC, so at least some of these games should be selling better than they are. Revamping their marketing efforts would probably help with that a ton, but in terms of SEGA's big marquee titles of late the only two that come to my mind are Sonic (inconsistent quality, wasted appeals to nostalgia in titles other than Mania), and Yakuza (somewhat niche appeal).

They don't really have anything in their stable at the level of a Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Tekken etc. in terms of both overall size and consistent long-term retention. The frustrating part is that they have IP which could be those marquee titles for them, but they don't focus on them, or just let other teams do small-scale things with them. There's just a certain type of presence you get from a company when they push a commanding AAA focus on a given IP and I don't get that from SEGA anymore.

Every company needs at least a few of those kind of games because they help cover a lot of the potential losses from the smaller-scale games. And like I said before it's not like SEGA's output is even bad; they have the highest Metacritic average among 3rd-party publishers for the past however many years now. But that isn't the perception a lot of people tend to have because they'll either picture the inconsistent Sonic games, or the somewhat limited appeal Yakuza games that might not even be their cup of tea.

SEGA needs to focus on more marquee, AAA efforts, preferably with legacy IP that still carry a lot of nostalgia and can be logically worked for a modern audience without betraying their roots. They have those IP but don't put them on the pedestal they need to be on. Even with the smaller-scale stuff, they could at least bring back more of their classic IP to better execute some of the ideas they shove into some of the Sonic games (like Ristar, for example). That way they wouldn't need to load Sonic with game concepts that would work better in a different IP they own.

Otherwise, if things continue the way they are SEGA might need some investments from a company like Tencent (the way Platinum Games did), or some type of boost from a bigger company, to keep healthy and/or have the funds to invest in some of these marquee AAA games properly. Who knows, maybe they have been in talks with MS or Sony for just that type of financial boost, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Oh and cireza cireza I agree with that part; if anything they should at least outsource downscale ports of next-gen games to the Switch, and for the smaller-scale projects like SoR4, make Switch the priority platform. No reason for them to keep locking certain games away arbitrarily to a single platform.
 

Fake

Member
Dec 20, 2018
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Guys... please, play the games before you post
Are you serious? You're not mention any Sonic Forces in your last post dude. You're really trying too hard at this point.
Besides, who are talking about Sonic Forces anyway? Is probably Sonic Team Racing the last Sonic game and don't sell so well as you can see.
 
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Quezacolt

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Jan 8, 2019
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No, but Sonic Forces came out over 2 years ago, so I doubt that would be looking to help with sales for the 3rd quarter 2020
Not that the game is sh8t mind, same goes for Gen and Colors.

Guys... please, play the games before you post
And why are you assuming he didnt play Sonic Forces? I did, and it was one of the worst sonic games i played in recent years. But hey, at least it's better than sonic boom.
 

cireza

Member
Jun 1, 2014
8,183
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700
I think it's time SEGA focus on a few key marquee IP and really do some grand stuff with them. Take a page from Capcom; they came back from the brink just a few years earlier, and did so by focusing big on select fan-favorite IP and pushing them forward. A lot of times I feel SEGA leaves some of their choice IP languishing and for a lot of the ones they bring back, they don't do enough with them to command bigger attention. That comes down both to production budgets and release schedules/timing (and under-marketing).

Anyways, SEGA at least consider doing some of the following:

>PHANTASY STAR 5: A legit PS4 sequel, with strong single-player focus but allow for some multiplayer ala Dark Souls. Make it a Sonic Team/Atlus team-up project, with the SMT/Persona teams doing stuff like music and character designs in particular.

Make it 3rd-person, with deep and intricate real-time battle system that still retains sensible JRPG mechanics. The scifi setting could make for some epic setpiece battles, channeling things like Mass Effect and Star Wars in scale even, but still have the classic Phantasy Star touch. And make it so that the game can have some type of cross-compatibility with a future Persona or SMT release, maybe with certain items being transferable between games, or certain bonuses unlocking if you find specific items across both games (doesn't mean they have to share the same universe per-se, although maybe if that next Persona game were a Soul Hackers game that could work too).

>FIGHTERS MEGAMIX 2: Basically, bring the deep gameplay the VF games have, but with more interesting characters. Bring back most of the Fighting Vipers chars, throw in some Streets of Rage, Jet Set Radio, Space Harrier, Virtual On etc. characters too and maybe a few of the Virtua Fighter stalwarts. Make a deal with companies like Capcom and SNK, and bring in some Power Stone, Star Gladiator, Fatal Fury etc. characters too. And some Power Instinct chars too, like from Groove-On Fight.

Take the basic Fighting Vipers gameplay but expand on it to be even more unique. Give it some big production values, and a healthy tournament scene.

>PANZER DRAGOON "SAGA" 2: Even if it means a new storyline, a new Panzer Dragoon would be amazing, especially with some high production values. There's no reason to keep it a JRPG or even a rail-shooter, so I think making it an action/adventure game with freedom of movement both on land and in flight within the Panzer Dragoon world could be special.

Expand on Saga's evolution system, give the game a really moving, sweeping and epic storyline, big setpiece battles, and integrate as much of the classic game mechanics as possible, updating where needed, in a cinematic story-driven action/adventure narrative providing that seamless on-foot/flight gameplay with the dragoon and its rider.

>3D STREETS OF RAGE (OR GOLDEN AXE): Upcoming SOR4 looks pretty good and I'm gonna pick it up, but a 3D SoR using the Yakuza engine would be a huge step-up and imho more appealing to the West, particularly America where SoR has a strong fanbase and heavy nostalgia bonding. There's also more that could be done with the SoR setting compared to Yakuza one.

Or, use a modified version of the engine powering the Yakuza games to do a 3D Golden Axe. It's still a shame Revenge of Death Addar never got a home port, as it's arguably the best Golden Axe game, but a 3D Golden Axe could be a perfect bridge in bringing the type of madness Dark Souls fans would enjoy, into an intricate beat'em up setting. Give it a strong storyline and take some inspiration from the Souls-like games as well but in the confines of a beat'em up, and it could be something big.

---

Because as-is, I do worry about SEGA's long-term prognosis. Sonic's appeal has diminished greatly (the upcoming movie seems like it'll actually do pretty well which could help with bringing more attention back to the series, but they need a legit good 3D Sonic to come out which capitalizes. No more Forces or Boom BS), and I think because so many of SEGA's other releases are intentionally kept more mid-scale, they don't market them that much as a result. No matter how good a game is, it won't do much in sales if there's no strong, consistent marketing.

And it's crazy to see they're even in this situation, because among 3rd parties they have the best Metacritic average IIRC, so at least some of these games should be selling better than they are. Revamping their marketing efforts would probably help with that a ton, but in terms of SEGA's big marquee titles of late the only two that come to my mind are Sonic (inconsistent quality, wasted appeals to nostalgia in titles other than Mania), and Yakuza (somewhat niche appeal).

They don't really have anything in their stable at the level of a Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Tekken etc. in terms of both overall size and consistent long-term retention. The frustrating part is that they have IP which could be those marquee titles for them, but they don't focus on them, or just let other teams do small-scale things with them. There's just a certain type of presence you get from a company when they push a commanding AAA focus on a given IP and I don't get that from SEGA anymore.

Every company needs at least a few of those kind of games because they help cover a lot of the potential losses from the smaller-scale games. And like I said before it's not like SEGA's output is even bad; they have the highest Metacritic average among 3rd-party publishers for the past however many years now. But that isn't the perception a lot of people tend to have because they'll either picture the inconsistent Sonic games, or the somewhat limited appeal Yakuza games that might not even be their cup of tea.

SEGA needs to focus on more marquee, AAA efforts, preferably with legacy IP that still carry a lot of nostalgia and can be logically worked for a modern audience without betraying their roots. They have those IP but don't put them on the pedestal they need to be on. Even with the smaller-scale stuff, they could at least bring back more of their classic IP to better execute some of the ideas they shove into some of the Sonic games (like Ristar, for example). That way they wouldn't need to load Sonic with game concepts that would work better in a different IP they own.

Otherwise, if things continue the way they are SEGA might need some investments from a company like Tencent (the way Platinum Games did), or some type of boost from a bigger company, to keep healthy and/or have the funds to invest in some of these marquee AAA games properly. Who knows, maybe they have been in talks with MS or Sony for just that type of financial boost, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Oh and cireza cireza I agree with that part; if anything they should at least outsource downscale ports of next-gen games to the Switch, and for the smaller-scale projects like SoR4, make Switch the priority platform. No reason for them to keep locking certain games away arbitrarily to a single platform.
There is a lot of potential in many series. Fighters Megamix could definitely find its place in our current age.

I would love to see PS5 but it would be very risky especially if they go all out to make it a huge game. Skies of Arcadia 2 would be in the same league.

They have to reinvigorate Sonic. There is so much potential for something more open, it would be fantastic but they need to start trying to begin with. This boost in corridor formula must stop now.

Also I believe they should make more arcade ports, at little price and digital only like they did on 360.

Crazy Taxi also has a lot of potential being an open world game to begin with.
 
Last edited:

Saber

Member
Jan 30, 2019
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660
No, but Sonic Forces came out over 2 years ago, so I doubt that would be looking to help with sales for the 3rd quarter 2020
Not that the game is sh8t mind, same goes for Gen and Colors.

Guys... please, play the games before you post

Sonic Forces its a piece of crap not worth anybodys money that you can mostly beat just by holding the boost button. Comparing it with Gen and Color its an offense.

And it's not like it not relevant. It was the last main game of Sonic and I'm pretty sure we gonna get a new one soon. But if ends up with this quality, then they gonna failed pretty much like they did with Forces.
 
Last edited:

JunkerWoland

Member
Jun 29, 2016
962
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Looking at their end-of-year presentation for FY19, the company was already forecasting a decrease in profits for FY20, due to R&D and marketing costs of new titles. Without knowing their internal numbers on individual titles, it can't be said whether any specific game legitimately under performed or they're just using this as an excuse to justify an adjustment to their end-of-year figures.

Worth considering, the difference between the original & revised forecast for new-title sales is 850,000 units (the difference in total game sales is only 500,000). (Also worth noting, it's already been announced Yakuza 7 has sold over 300,000 units.) There's always the possibility the forecast was lowered, so better than projected sales can be announced at year's end. Similarly, it's possible the company was originally expecting Western sales on certain titles, which have since slipped into next fiscal year; their big new titles included Persona 5 Royal, Persona 5 Scramble, New Sakura Wars, and Yakuza 7, with only Persona 5 Royal launching this fiscal year in the West.
 
Last edited:

Lionel Richie

Member
Jun 22, 2014
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Well you released 2 games on a dead console in Japan and the other one was Mario and Sanic at the Olympics. What the fuck were you expecting Sega?
 

Reon

Member
Apr 2, 2019
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Well you released 2 games on a dead console in Japan and the other one was Mario and Sanic at the Olympics. What the fuck were you expecting Sega?
I guess to be fair, Mario and Sonic and the Olympic Games are traditionally million+ sellers. But the novelty has seriously worn off by now.

They really fucked up by releasing Team Sonic Racing in such an awful state and never fixing it. I was really excited about that game but it's had the shortest legs of any of the Sonic Racing games to date. Even fucking Sonic R is better than it.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
That sounds pretty good for what is basically a re-release of an old game at full price, albeit with some extra DLC thrown in. I suppose with the success of the original P5 their expectations were sky-high.
It's worse than that story wise.
 
Jan 29, 2019
5,675
6,102
495
I think it's time SEGA focus on a few key marquee IP and really do some grand stuff with them. Take a page from Capcom; they came back from the brink just a few years earlier, and did so by focusing big on select fan-favorite IP and pushing them forward. A lot of times I feel SEGA leaves some of their choice IP languishing and for a lot of the ones they bring back, they don't do enough with them to command bigger attention. That comes down both to production budgets and release schedules/timing (and under-marketing).

Anyways, SEGA at least consider doing some of the following:

>PHANTASY STAR 5: A legit PS4 sequel, with strong single-player focus but allow for some multiplayer ala Dark Souls. Make it a Sonic Team/Atlus team-up project, with the SMT/Persona teams doing stuff like music and character designs in particular.

Make it 3rd-person, with deep and intricate real-time battle system that still retains sensible JRPG mechanics. The scifi setting could make for some epic setpiece battles, channeling things like Mass Effect and Star Wars in scale even, but still have the classic Phantasy Star touch. And make it so that the game can have some type of cross-compatibility with a future Persona or SMT release, maybe with certain items being transferable between games, or certain bonuses unlocking if you find specific items across both games (doesn't mean they have to share the same universe per-se, although maybe if that next Persona game were a Soul Hackers game that could work too).

>FIGHTERS MEGAMIX 2: Basically, bring the deep gameplay the VF games have, but with more interesting characters. Bring back most of the Fighting Vipers chars, throw in some Streets of Rage, Jet Set Radio, Space Harrier, Virtual On etc. characters too and maybe a few of the Virtua Fighter stalwarts. Make a deal with companies like Capcom and SNK, and bring in some Power Stone, Star Gladiator, Fatal Fury etc. characters too. And some Power Instinct chars too, like from Groove-On Fight.

Take the basic Fighting Vipers gameplay but expand on it to be even more unique. Give it some big production values, and a healthy tournament scene.

>PANZER DRAGOON "SAGA" 2: Even if it means a new storyline, a new Panzer Dragoon would be amazing, especially with some high production values. There's no reason to keep it a JRPG or even a rail-shooter, so I think making it an action/adventure game with freedom of movement both on land and in flight within the Panzer Dragoon world could be special.

Expand on Saga's evolution system, give the game a really moving, sweeping and epic storyline, big setpiece battles, and integrate as much of the classic game mechanics as possible, updating where needed, in a cinematic story-driven action/adventure narrative providing that seamless on-foot/flight gameplay with the dragoon and its rider.

>3D STREETS OF RAGE (OR GOLDEN AXE): Upcoming SOR4 looks pretty good and I'm gonna pick it up, but a 3D SoR using the Yakuza engine would be a huge step-up and imho more appealing to the West, particularly America where SoR has a strong fanbase and heavy nostalgia bonding. There's also more that could be done with the SoR setting compared to Yakuza one.

Or, use a modified version of the engine powering the Yakuza games to do a 3D Golden Axe. It's still a shame Revenge of Death Addar never got a home port, as it's arguably the best Golden Axe game, but a 3D Golden Axe could be a perfect bridge in bringing the type of madness Dark Souls fans would enjoy, into an intricate beat'em up setting. Give it a strong storyline and take some inspiration from the Souls-like games as well but in the confines of a beat'em up, and it could be something big.

---

Because as-is, I do worry about SEGA's long-term prognosis. Sonic's appeal has diminished greatly (the upcoming movie seems like it'll actually do pretty well which could help with bringing more attention back to the series, but they need a legit good 3D Sonic to come out which capitalizes. No more Forces or Boom BS), and I think because so many of SEGA's other releases are intentionally kept more mid-scale, they don't market them that much as a result. No matter how good a game is, it won't do much in sales if there's no strong, consistent marketing.

And it's crazy to see they're even in this situation, because among 3rd parties they have the best Metacritic average IIRC, so at least some of these games should be selling better than they are. Revamping their marketing efforts would probably help with that a ton, but in terms of SEGA's big marquee titles of late the only two that come to my mind are Sonic (inconsistent quality, wasted appeals to nostalgia in titles other than Mania), and Yakuza (somewhat niche appeal).

They don't really have anything in their stable at the level of a Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Tekken etc. in terms of both overall size and consistent long-term retention. The frustrating part is that they have IP which could be those marquee titles for them, but they don't focus on them, or just let other teams do small-scale things with them. There's just a certain type of presence you get from a company when they push a commanding AAA focus on a given IP and I don't get that from SEGA anymore.

Every company needs at least a few of those kind of games because they help cover a lot of the potential losses from the smaller-scale games. And like I said before it's not like SEGA's output is even bad; they have the highest Metacritic average among 3rd-party publishers for the past however many years now. But that isn't the perception a lot of people tend to have because they'll either picture the inconsistent Sonic games, or the somewhat limited appeal Yakuza games that might not even be their cup of tea.

SEGA needs to focus on more marquee, AAA efforts, preferably with legacy IP that still carry a lot of nostalgia and can be logically worked for a modern audience without betraying their roots. They have those IP but don't put them on the pedestal they need to be on. Even with the smaller-scale stuff, they could at least bring back more of their classic IP to better execute some of the ideas they shove into some of the Sonic games (like Ristar, for example). That way they wouldn't need to load Sonic with game concepts that would work better in a different IP they own.

Otherwise, if things continue the way they are SEGA might need some investments from a company like Tencent (the way Platinum Games did), or some type of boost from a bigger company, to keep healthy and/or have the funds to invest in some of these marquee AAA games properly. Who knows, maybe they have been in talks with MS or Sony for just that type of financial boost, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Oh and cireza cireza I agree with that part; if anything they should at least outsource downscale ports of next-gen games to the Switch, and for the smaller-scale projects like SoR4, make Switch the priority platform. No reason for them to keep locking certain games away arbitrarily to a single platform.
The could also do a modern action game around the Golden Axe universe.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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8,203
630
www.instagram.com
There is a lot of potential in many series. Fighters Megamix could definitely find its place in our current age.

I would love to see PS5 but it would be very risky especially if they go all out to make it a huge game. Skies of Arcadia 2 would be in the same league.

They have to reinvigorate Sonic. There is so much potential for something more open, it would be fantastic but they need to start trying to begin with. This boost in corridor formula must stop now.

Also I believe they should make more arcade ports, at little price and digital only like they did on 360.

Crazy Taxi also has a lot of potential being an open world game to begin with.

Hmm, maybe PS5 would be risky. Technically speaking doing any IP that isn't a massive movie franchise (Spiderman) at some sort of AAA levels is risky. But Phantasy Star is sci-fi, and sci-fi games are pretty popular in general in the AAA space. Not only that, but in terms of the type of sci-fi/cyberpunk something like Phantasy Star could bring, there isn't really that much of it at the upper echelon. The IP has the characters, setting, lore and story in place that could translate well in that space. Pair that with the Persona/SMT art teams and you can have a really solid Japanese AAA game with Western appeal.

Agreed on Sonic as a whole; there's no reason why they couldn't have done a Mania sequel, but more than that, they need to settle on core gameplay mechanics for a change and build on them. Sonic has a bad reputation of throwing out game mechanics that could probably be improved in a sequel, in favor of just chucking in new mechanics for the sake of being different.

A strong base gameplay for Sonic needs to be established in 3D and make that the basis to build off of with future releases. I'd say the stronger portions of the Adventure games and aspects of the classic games are the best basis to draw from. Work on the controls, the physics, find ways to make speed a reward for skilled/smart play like it was always intended to be, and keep the level design on-point.

Wouldn't mind a SEGA Arcade Classics Collection at all, especially for the System 32, Model 1/2/3 and Naomi-era games that never got home releases. Maybe throw in online multiplayer and some other bonus features as well, and make it multiplatform & PC (Steam, GOG. Epic Store if they don't try any funny business).

Dunno how 'open-world' an open-world Crazy Taxi could be while keeping the same tight pacing, but at the very least they could try a new Crazy Taxi arcade game. Another arcade dev recently made a spiritual successor of their own, and it'd be a fun break from the typical racing games coming out in arcades/FECs these days. Then later on they could do a home port with extra content, probably price it at $40, add crossplay online multiplayer and maybe even boost the graphics a bit.

alabtrosMyster alabtrosMyster Totally. IIRC they tried a Golden Axe spinoff back on the PS2 but it was pretty bad. I think if they tried a 3rd-person GA game nowadays people would expect a Soulsborne-type affair, so it'd only work for GA if the quality, production values and such were there plus it bringing something totally new to that type of game design.

What about a Golden Axe x Streets of Rage type of AA/AAA Yakuza-style action/adventure game with roaming 3rd-person segments and focus on clusters of enemies in contained ranges with Soulsborn + beat'em'up game mechanics, and able to form teams of SoR/Golden Axe characters like in a JRPG you can switch through for big combos (and some kind of mechanic where you can select items and switches of characters in real-time but the game slows down some to keep everything manageable)?
 
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Sonic Forces its a piece of crap not worth anybodys money that you can mostly beat just by holding the boost button. Comparing it with Gen and Color its an offense.

People used to say all you need to do, to beat Sonic on the MD was held right on the D-Pad. It's not really fair or genuine criticism and I guess if people just use Youtube modern Sonic games might look like that too,
The main trouble with Sonic Forces is the levels are too short, but it's far from crap or anything like Sonic 06.
 
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And why are you assuming he didnt play Sonic Forces? I did, and it was one of the worst sonic games i played in recent years. But hey, at least it's better than sonic boom.

Just stating the all the sonic games are 'sh8t', makes one think why did you even bother buying any of them?
Sonic Forces was a step backwards, but it's hardly sh8t.
 
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Are you serious? You're not mention any Sonic Forces in your last post dude. You're really trying too hard at this point.
Besides, who are talking about Sonic Forces anyway? Is probably Sonic Team Racing the last Sonic game and don't sell so well as you can see.

Well if you're talking of Sonic Team Racing is reviewed well and is hardly sh8t , SEGA Europe we happy with the sales too
So maybe you need to try harder, maybe even play the game?
 
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Considering how much SEGA doesn't bother to even mention their European division, why not just sell or split it into a separate company?

Then you'll immediately notice who's making more profits there.

SEGA Europe - 3-4 IPs, all incredibly successful.

SEGA Japan - dozens of releases every year - struggles to be profitable.

How can you even be surprised? Atlus don't even port the old games to PC and barely does anything these days that isn't Persona, they rarely make multiplatform releases, SEGA wastes money on bad Sonic games or stuff no one asked, while often completely ignoring the feedbacks.
 
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Saber

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People used to say all you need to do, to beat Sonic on the MD was held right on the D-Pad. It's not really fair or genuine criticism and I guess if people just use Youtube modern Sonic games might look like that too,
The main trouble with Sonic Forces is the levels are too short, but it's far from crap or anything like Sonic 06.

There are other problems the game have that I didn't mentioned. Includes poor level design, crap story, etc.

And seriously for you to even mentioned Sonic 06(as if just being better than 06 its enought), you might be desperate to sell the game. The game is bad through and through. They didn't even have the courage to mention how much it sold. Look, if you like the game thats cool, but its not a good game not matter how you look at it.

They better really spend a good time developing the next main game, otherwise it gonna be an another shitshow.
 
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There are other problems the game have that I didn't mentioned. Includes poor level design, crap story, etc.

And seriously for you to even mentioned Sonic 06(as if just being better than 06 its enought), you might be desperate to sell the game. The game is bad through and through.

I used SONIC 06 simply because that is what one could rightly call an 'sh8t' game. Sonic Forces may not be brilliant, but it's far from a sh8t game and given it came out over 2 years ago. I very much doubt it would fig in any recent report and since we've got a sequel coming, it must have sold enough to warrant a sequel

And seriously you expect a story in a Sonic game? LOL... Guess you must dislike the Mario games since all those games revolve around the brand dead Princess Preach getting kidnapped
 
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Saber

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I used SONIC 06 simply because that is what one could rightly call an 'sh8t' game.

Wow, being better than 06. What an archievement lol

Sonic Forces may not be brilliant, but it's far from a sh8t game and given it came out over 2 years ago. I very much doubt it would fig in any recent report and since we've got a sequel coming, it must have sold enough to warrant a sequel

I keep what I mentioned in later post. You're trying too hard to sell a shit game(no matter how you like it) that pushes the concept of create a character out of a franchise that has...a lot of characters. I will not stop you from dreaming about a sequel of a garbage game though.

And seriously you expect a story in a Sonic game?

Yes, seriously a story in a Sonic game. Wow, so hard, let me compare with Mario so I can make my argument better. Just before you try this again, Mario has better games to cover up for their stories and Sonic has...nothing. No better gameplay, no better level design and no better story. But I guess the visuals are nice, so ok.
Anyway I guess I'm wasting too much time talking about a confirmed crap game that you're trying so hard to defend just because you like. This is the last quote I'm answering you(nothing against you though).
 
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Quezacolt

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Just stating the all the sonic games are 'sh8t', makes one think why did you even bother buying any of them?
Sonic Forces was a step backwards, but it's hardly sh8t.
And since when did i say that all sonic games are shit? i'm a fan of the franchise, but that doesnt mean i wont judge a game properly just because of that. If you like the game, cool, i had fun with bad games before, but that doesnt change the fact that they are bad.
The game had potential, but it was wasted by poor level design, short levels, bad 2D levels, wonky physics, boring gameplay, awful story even for the serie's standards. The only 2 good things are the soundtrack and the graphics.
 
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I used SONIC 06 simply because that is what one could rightly call an 'sh8t' game. Sonic Forces may not be brilliant, but it's far from a sh8t game and given it came out over 2 years ago. I very much doubt it would fig in any recent report and since we've got a sequel coming, it must have sold enough to warrant a sequel

And seriously you expect a story in a Sonic game? LOL... Guess you must dislike the Mario games since all those games revolve around the brand dead Princess Preach getting kidnapped

The problem with a lot of modern Sonic games is that, if it's indeed SEGA's marquee franchise (or at least one of them), just being "good enough" isn't good enough. Yeah, Team Sonic Racing did well, but it got completely overshadowed by Crash Team Racing a month later; CTR just shifted TSR out of mainstream mindshare because while TSR was "good enough", CTR did everything better, particularly for the fans who were looking forward to it.

TSR should've been the ultimate SEGA & Sonic All-Stars kart racer; keep in mind Transformed was considered so good a lot of people even put it above Mario Kart 8. By that metric, TSR was a big drop and that's evident seeing how quickly and easily CTR supplanted it as the MK alternative.

Sonic Force's problem was that it just didn't seem that ambitious, to me anyway. Neat little create-a-character mode but that's about it. The game was a big step back from Generations, and they put the wrong guy in charge of the project. And keep in mind the game was delayed so for the delay the final product wasn't up to par.

And again, yes it was "decent enough" but that wasn't good enough; Mario Odyssey came out the same year and just obliterated it in terms of reception, ambition, and sales. That's pretty bad for a series that used to actually go head-to-head with Nintendo's top platformers back in the day during the glory years. SEGA can't just keep settling for "good enough" with what's supposed to be a marquee/flagship IP like Sonic. So I'm hoping they take the goodwill and reception coming from the new movie, and convert that towards a truly ambitious, highly polished and genuinely great next-gen Sonic.

Otherwise, they risk the IP losing more relevance. And I say this as someone who's a pretty big fan of a nice chunk of SEGA games and consoles, and highly respect the original trilogy, Mania, and the Adventure games. The fanbase has to demand better of the IP because aside from throwbacks like Mania, it has been struggling and that can't be denied.

If a marquee IP like Sonic just continues to straddle between mediocre and decent, that reduces the attention SEGA's less established IPs will generated. That's why it's so important for them to utilize the next Sonic game as the chance to finally bring the series up to par, and beyond. People by large should be regarding the 3D Sonics with the same fervor as Mario, Crash, Ratchet & Clank etc. But they aren't, except with with hardcore fanbase, which can't last forever and shrinks a little with each tepid release.

Games like Mania are meant to be the cherries on top of the cake, not the cake itself. That's supposed to be 3D Sonic's role but SEGA and Sonic Team have been under-delivering since Generations, and now they've even cooled off the momentum they had with All-Stars Transformed on the kart racing side. They NEED to up the quality control and put the right people on the projects, now before it's too late.

It's time for the to revisit older IP's........

They've been doing this in phases but in what I'd consider as "baby steps". House of the Dead: Scarlet Dawn's been received very well...but it's an arcade/FEC exclusive 🤷‍♂️ . Sega World Drivers Championship is easily their best arcade racer of the decade and has a lot of lineage going back to Scud Race/Super GT (and could be expanded upon with a console port, particularly for people wanting a more traditional style GT which hasn't happened this gen)...but it's a Japanese arcade/FEC exclusive 🤷‍♂️ 🤷‍♂️ .

Streets of Rage 4 looks good, but it's being handled by a 3rd-party studio whom SEGA'll likely not bother to buy into the company if the game is a hit, same as what happened with the Sonic Mania team. And while they've got Panzer Dragoon Remake coming, again it's being handled by a 3rd-party and I doubt SEGA would look into buying the team to integrate them into their workspace. Hell, they've yet to buy M2 or even a stake into M2 IIRC, and they are strongly associated with SEGA these days. Money left on the table.

Sometimes I genuinely think the Japanese management never truly changed, they just had less eyeballs on them since they no longer manufactured consoles as a platform holder. They still keep making a lot of the same idiotic business decisions they did when SEGA was making consoles, and they still haven't bothered to really synergize the different regional divisions. Wouldn't even be surprised if SoJ is jealous of the relative success SoE has with their software releases, they probably just don't bother to voice it as strongly as before.

If SEGA doesn't start putting some major resources towards some tentpole IP resurrections (and don't make the next Sonic game a genuinely great game to put the IP back on the map as a marquee franchise), the entire upper management should be forced to resign. There's no reason they shouldn't be making healthy fat profits with the market as it is today; software releasing and marketing are more affordable and wide-reaching than ever.
 
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The problem with a lot of modern Sonic games is that, if it's indeed SEGA's marquee franchise (or at least one of them), just being "good enough" isn't good enough. Yeah, Team Sonic Racing did well, but it got completely overshadowed by Crash Team Racing a month later; CTR just shifted TSR out of mainstream mindshare because while TSR was "good enou

That's fair enough, but it's far from Terrible and it does try some new modes and also runs at 60 fps. My main issue is just that it's a step backwards from Sonic Transformed. To me CTR showed how you do a remaster, not like the cheap Remaster of Panzer Dragoon we're going to get soon.

Sonic Force's problem was that it just didn't seem that ambitious, to me anyway. Neat little create-a-character mode but that's about it. The game was a big step back from Generations, and they put the wrong guy in charge of the project. And keep in mind the game was delayed so for the delay the final product wasn't up to par.

Again, I agree. I didn't mind the Avatar Character Tbh and really enjoyed the boss battles and the 2D sections. I just felt, it was a step backwards from Gen and the 3D sections too short. But it was far from 'Sh8t'.

Otherwise, they risk the IP losing more relevance.

That is an issue for so many SEGA IP tbh honest. I feel SEGA is also running Yakuza into the ground tbh. But I wouldn't call them terrible or 'sh8t' games
 
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And since when did i say that all sonic games are shit? i'm a fan of the franchise, but that doesnt mean i wont judge a game properly just because of that. If you like the game, cool, i had fun with bad games before, but that doesnt change the fact that they are bad.
The game had potential, but it was wasted by poor level design, short levels, bad 2D levels, wonky physics, boring gameplay, awful story even for the serie's standards. The only 2 good things are the soundtrack and the graphics.


I never said you. My main response was to fake, who made out all recent Sonic games have been 'Sh8t'. Think you're expecting a lot of Sonic to have a decent story TBH.

That said, Sonic story is always better than Peach getting kidnapped in Mario; Still, in Mario, It's also ok to have a Turtle who wants to hump a Human female and a walking talking mushroom. Sonic, on the other hand, can't have any humans, much less kiss a Princess (Mario can though).
 
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Wow, being better than 06. What an archievement lol

Better than your spelling too.

I keep what I mentioned in later post. You're trying too hard to sell a shit game(no matter how you like it) that pushes the concept of create a character out of a franchise that has...a lot of characters. I will not stop you from dreaming about a sequel of a garbage game though.

There's a difference from thinking a game is ok to half-decent, to thinking a game is brilliant. I don't think the game is that bad and it's not sh8t.



Yes, seriously a story in a Sonic game. Wow, so hard, let me compare with Mario so I can make my argument better. .

LOL, What was the story in the 1st Sonic or even in Mania (the recent Sonic game everyone loves) Here's the story to most Sonic games and its quite simple:
Egg man, wants to rule the world and kill Sonic. WOW!!!! SEGA really pushing the storytelling envelope

If you want Platform action and good scripts/story Maybe look to Drakes or Tomb Raider. Not look to Mario or Sonic.
 

meirl

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Of course. This happens if you develop your games only for a single console.
Like seriously street fighter? Why the fuck is it only on a single console? It’s on PC it’s easy as FUCK to port to Xbox. And then imagine having crossplay! This would be much better for a FIGHTING game
 

Yoshi

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No, but Sonic Forces came out over 2 years ago, so I doubt that would be looking to help with sales for the 3rd quarter 2020
Not that the game is sh8t mind, same goes for Gen and Colors.

Guys... please, play the games before you post
Shitting on Sonic has never been based on playing the games, it's just a stupid game forum goers like to play. Sonic Forces is worse than Colours and Generations, sure, but it is not a garbage game, it's still fun while it lasts. Obviously, mainline Sonic is not responsible for the weak quarterly results of Sega here - except for the fact that there was no new game.
 
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I wish Sega would bring back their defunct ip's, I'd kill for a new Jet set Radio, Skies of Arcadia and Sega Rally

Just Virtua Fighter 6 is what the world waits for. Or a new Virtua Cop or Fighting Vipers. They've got ip to rival Sony and even Nintendo.
 
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Shitting on Sonic has never been based on playing the games, it's just a stupid game forum goers like to play. Sonic Forces is worse than Colours and Generations, sure, but it is not a garbage game, it's still fun while it lasts. Obviously, mainline Sonic is not responsible for the weak quarterly results of Sega here - except for the fact that there was no new game.

Yeah, it's very like with the COD series or at once stage 'Crapcom'. Its funny the people with the most to say, are usually the ones who haven't bought the games
 
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Lucumo

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No they haven't.. Sakura Wars V is only in Japan and only the PS4 was always going to hurt with sales. Hopfully when it comes to the West, it will also make the jump to GamePass and the One/PC
What has Sakura Taisen V to do with anything? That game was released 15 years ago on the PS2.

As for Shin Sakura Taisen...a deserved flop.
 
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What has Sakura Taisen V to do with anything? That game was released 15 years ago on the PS2.

Do I even need to answer that? Sure even you could work out, I meant VI.
I haven't played it, why is the game so bad, what's so wrong with the story that it deserves to flop?
 
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That's fair enough, but it's far from Terrible and it does try some new modes and also runs at 60 fps. My main issue is just that it's a step backwards from Sonic Transformed. To me CTR showed how you do a remaster, not like the cheap Remaster of Panzer Dragoon we're going to get soon.

Mn, kind of a dubious claim imo. They're two very different types of games to begin with, and I guess while the PD remake may be a tad on the lower scale of financial investment compared to CTR, PD's also a lesser-known IP and I'm just glad we are actually getting ANYTHING PD-related since Orta. Plus to me, the visuals look pretty good, especially considering it's going to be on the Switch (I'll be picking up the GOG versions tho).

That is an issue for so many SEGA IP tbh honest. I feel SEGA is also running Yakuza into the ground tbh. But I wouldn't call them terrible or 'sh8t' games

IMO it comes down (still) to mismanagement. They have more than enough strong IP that could be properly curated and build an audience if they maybe paid more attention to gaming trends outside of their bubble. Like, why couldn't we have gotten a new Fantasy Zone, opened up as a 2D-style exploration/shmup expanding on the Fantasy Zone game mechanics and lore? They could even work in sections where you have on-foot segments, and there wouldn't really be anything else on the market like it. A game like that wouldn't need a big budget but it would easily find a niche.

SEGA has always had this weird fear of many of their legacy IP, especially the ones on Saturn and Dreamcast, and it's just ridiculous at this point. TBH it never felt like they learned how to fully properly manage and balance their IPs, especially the tentpole ones. If they did, the Sonic games would be more consistent. We'd have a current-gen Virtua Fighter. Would have had at least a couple more Skies of Arcadia sequels, a Phantasy Star V, etc.

I mean yeah we still have Yakuza but as you've said, they might be saturating the market with too much Yakuza too soon, but that's the problem you create when you don't manage enough marquee AAA IPs at the top end to rotate them around on a healthy schedule. It's stuff like that which makes me wonder if management ever really learned a lesson from their bad decisions in the Saturn and Dreamcast years 🤷‍♂️ .

My hope is that, if they see SoR4 do well, then they need to put the Yakuza team and maybe members from other teams onto a 3D SoR with heavily modified Yakuza gameplay. If they see PD remake do well, they need to internally fund and develop a bigger-budget remake of PD Saga and possibly buy out Forever Entertainment. They need to consider doing a Saturn/Dreamcast/Arcade emulation collection for next-gen systems and add features like online play, English translations for non-translated Japanese games, and more. Do home spinoffs of games like HOTD: Scarlet Dawn expanding on the campaign and game mechanics.

And for the love of all that is good, make sure the next-gen Sonic game is really good, not just passable. Make it good enough to command some big attention and respect again from the mainstream. Nothing on the level of, say, a GTA or ND game, but at least somewhere on the level between Crash/Rachet & Clank and the big Mario games.

As for Shin Sakura Taisen...a deserved flop.

Does this have to do with the shift in game mechanics? Realistically, they probably couldn't of kept the game the same way as the 2D ones without scaling down the size of the project. And other IP have managed successful shifts in their game mechanics, like the RE series.

If the game is legit good, then I hope it is successful, even if the game mechanics have changed a ton. People can't ask for investments back into dormant IP and then not support them when new entries come out and are otherwise actually good.
 
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ethomaz

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It is funny to see the different talk between Sega and Capcom :D