Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice | OT | Borne of Souls

Verdanth

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I really like the way this game makes you learn from your mistakes, and put effort to learn the gameplay mechanics.

Previously to Genichiro battle, I felt really bad at the game, but that battle was key for me, really learned how to parry/deflect and tackle posture mechanic.

I'm still no close to master it, but damn, do I feel a sense of evolution comparing mid game with early game.

I'm currenlty in the shinobi invasion, in the castle. Man, so dope. Ready to face father Owl.
 
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tassletine

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it's funny, the prosthetics at this point remind me of og Castlevania more than anything. consumable sub weapons that augment the main attack. try beating Death in NES Castlevania without the Holy Water or Cross and it's nearly impossible. but using the right sub weapons gives you a massive leg up on certain enemies. it's a lot like that here.
Bloodborne always reminded me of Castlevania. The sword fighting in this reminds me of Punch Out.
 

Flutterborn

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I'm in Alternate Hirata getting close to you-know-who so he can ruin my life for the nth time since I started Sekiro, but I've been having lot of trouble with the lone shadows/interior ministry ninjas (the purple guys). They're so tough that I basically run away from them, which is all well and good but right before the boss' chamber there's a miniboss next to an lone shadow. They're positioned in a way that it's basically impossible to get the drop on him and if I try to fight him head on he obliterates me.

What's your strategy when dealing with lone shadows? Is there any move or prosthetic that trivializes them?
 

Tako Ou

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What's your strategy when dealing with lone shadows? Is there any move or prosthetic that trivializes them?
They have somewhat low posture, so if you are very agressive and stay close, you can parry/mikiri counter your way to the deathblow.
They have a distinctive combo that always end with a thrusting kick (danger icon) that you can mikiri counter, my first success on this enemy was simply to wait for this move, deflect and mikiri and then 2 slashes and rince & repeat.
Those who use poison can be trickier. I personally handled this move by dodging (that allowed me to get some free hits right after), but maybe you can use the umbrella instead ?

For your specific situation, you can actually deathblow the shinobi right away. It's very easy with a candy for stealth, you just need to approach perpendicularly to their lines of sight (as they are facing each other) and when they start noticing something you rush for the shinobi back. I managed to do that even whithout the candy, but the timing is tight. With the blood smoke ninjutsu you might be able to deathblow Juzou first health bar right after, I haven't tried that but I guess it's possible.
This being said, you can also just aggro both and stay kind of mid distance so that Juzou doesn't rush you but the shinobi does, deal with him then it's 1v1 against Juzou.
 
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Flutterborn

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I finally got past that by popping a Gachin Sugar, deathblowing the lone shadow and using puppet master so he clears the ads for me. Risky, and lengthy, but it worked. Ty guys
 

#Phonepunk#

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just took down True Monk using no Divine Confetti or Sugars. it felt great!

did they update his boss fight in one of the recent patches? it was a much more pleasant fight, the single middle deathblow was easy to get, and i didn't even have to deal with the dark spirits. anyways, great fight.

also holy crap Fountainhead Palace is beautiful and dreamlike, in a way few other games are (Bloodborne is like this from time to time too). love this submerged, moonlit, heavenly Divine Realm
 
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#Phonepunk#

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im going for the Shura ending. i can take down Emma without using any gourds but Isshin Ashina inevitably wrecks me during the fire phase. any tips? i have the fire umbrella but i'm not used to this moveset...

on another save im going through the Return Ending and just defeated the dragon. easily the best "gimmick boss" in From history IMO. not frustrating, looks jaw droppingly incredible, such a cool reward for making it through the rest of the game. Fountainhead Palace is one of my favorite areas ever.
 

Danjin44

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im going for the Shura ending. i can take down Emma without using any gourds but Isshin Ashina inevitably wrecks me during the fire phase. any tips? i have the fire umbrella but i'm not used to this moveset...

on another save im going through the Return Ending and just defeated the dragon. easily the best "gimmick boss" in From history IMO. not frustrating, looks jaw droppingly incredible, such a cool reward for making it through the rest of the game. Fountainhead Palace is one of my favorite areas ever.
The biggest tip I can give you regarding Isshin boss in Shura ending, when he does his big fire attack you need to standing in area thats not on fire and get ready to do some deflecting.
 
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ClanOfNone

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Totally forgot I had ordered the guide for this, and it finally came in the mail yesterday. It's another beautiful piece of work from Future Press, anytime they do a From product it's an instabuy for me.
 

#Phonepunk#

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so Isshi has a loop you can get him in, i know it works for the 3rd phase cos that is when it worked for me. you throw a firecracker and immediately go into a whirlwind. then firecracker. then whirlwind. over and over. he can't break it! think i did 1/4th of his health bar worth of damage using this method. with Divine Confetti it could get you very close to victory.
 
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I'm almost at the top of the castle and I need to know, is this a Breath of The Wild type deal where you can beat the final boss early but the idea is to explore and become powered up? Because I've discovered other areas, I'm not sure whether I'm meant to tackle whatever's at the top yet and I don't want to beat it without seeing everything.
 

TheDuskwalker

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I'm almost at the top of the castle and I need to know, is this a Breath of The Wild type deal where you can beat the final boss early but the idea is to explore and become powered up? Because I've discovered other areas, I'm not sure whether I'm meant to tackle whatever's at the top yet and I don't want to beat it without seeing everything.
No
 

Screamer-RSA

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Meh, so far I had more fun with Bloodborne and Dark Souls. Those games have a proper sense of progression with large areas to explore and a boss at the end. This is one mini boss after the other, sometimes in the next fucking room. With some harder than actual bosses :/. If the game didn't tell me Lady Butterfly was an actual boss after defeating her, I would not have known.

I hope this is not what Form Software think is the way forward. How would I know their next game is not just another boss run simulator?

I really like the setting and story so far, so will push forward.
 
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SorenBach

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Meh, so far I had more fun with Bloodborne and Dark Souls. Those games have a proper sense of progression with large areas to explore and a boss at the end. This is one mini boss after the other, sometimes in the next fucking room. With some harder than actual bosses :/. If the game didn't tell me Lady Butterfly was an actual boss after defeating her, I would not have known.

I hope this is not what Form Software think is the way forward. How would I know their next game is not just another boss run simulator?

I really like the setting and story so far, so will push forward.
I agree with you to some extent. Sometimes it was a bit rough with all the mini-bosses right up next to each other, and some of them are definitely more tough than the actual bosses. But most of them are skippable, although I wouldn't recommend it because you're gonna miss out on a lot of prayer beads.
But stick with it! It's gonna be worth it in the end, trust me :)
 

Verdanth

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Arrived at the last boss. Welp, think I'm gonna stay there for quite a while.

And let's be honest, wish I could just finish the game asap.
 

#Phonepunk#

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still stuck at the Shura boss fight. last night i got Isshi down to a sliver of health but that fire attack will get you...
 

#Phonepunk#

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victory! finally won the Shura boss battle.

the final phase is what kept messing me up. eventually i got to so where by using range whirlwind attacks & jumping from all danger symbols i could fight through the first fight and the 1st phase of the second fight without using much health.

the third phase is tricky. the fire attacks are v deadly but you can avoid them. eventually i figured out that you have to start running/jumping when he sits down and begins growling. one fire attack does a semi circle on the ground and if you jump twice you can avoid its range completely. but if you can run up to right behind him, you should be safe from the fire attacks, and can get in a flurry of hits. coincidentally this strategy also works for one of Emma's attacks, the minute her blade glints, run up behind her and wait for her to do the attack, then counter.

on to NG++ and the Purification ending to get those last beads
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Thinking about using the hard bell to get that extra xp and help w skill grinding. Anyone try this? Lol I can’t believe I’ll make this game more difficult but I’ve made it through several times so I know I can do it. Still....
 

SorenBach

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Thinking about using the hard bell to get that extra xp and help w skill grinding. Anyone try this? Lol I can’t believe I’ll make this game more difficult but I’ve made it through several times so I know I can do it. Still....
Yeah, I did this and no kuro's charm for every NG up until 5. And in each run I had to take it off when I came to Owl because he kept beating my ass and I couldn't make perfect parrys on him for some reason. I managed to get all skill opints in NG+4, but there was still grinding parts unfortunately. Mostly happened when I had maybe 50% of a skill point and was about to face a boss, and didn't want to loose my progress because it's really a big grind in the end.
 

Verdanth

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Got the last boss down.

Got the imortal severance ending, where Kuro dies and Sekiro becomes the sculptor. Pretty dope.

Been stuck on him for two days, but finally got him. An insane battle I must say. The game really demands focus on this one, but its a hell of a feeling once you beat him.

This game can be stressfull, but holy shit, its a masterpiece.
 
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xviper

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today i started Sekiro for the first time.

i defeated Genichiro and stopped for the day, that battle was tough as fuck.

i gotta say i'm pretty disappointed.

repetitive combat, repetitive enemies and repetitive mini-bosses and bosses, i feel like i'm doing the same thing over and over and over.

1 weapon for the rest of the game ? please don't give me that "it's not soulsborne" crap, there should have been more weapons for gameplay variety.

bosses are exactly as i feared from the trailers, mostly boring humans, just like Dark souls 3, however, in Sekiro it's worst because every boss has the SAME FUCKING MECHANIC DUE TO THE LIMITED AND REPETITIVE GAMEPLAY.

i expected much more from the game, although i'm still early in the game, but i doubt anything would change.
 
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If you beat Genichiro then you aren't "early game" anymore lmao. Also no this game has no custom features and is WAY more story focused with no cryptic lore for you to fill in the gaps. There's sub weapons but yeah, one weapon. Take it or leave it.

I can understand wanting variety but fighting humans with swords in Sekiro is more satisfying than fighting dragons or demons. I'm on NG++ and I sometimes do get pissed off with how fragile Sekiro is but... This game is don't get hit the game. Keep going if you are still not liking it after a certain boss then just move on from it.
 

Danjin44

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today i started Sekiro for the first time.

i defeated Genichiro and stopped for the day, that battle was tough as fuck.

i gotta say i'm pretty disappointed.

repetitive combat, repetitive enemies and repetitive mini-bosses and bosses, i feel like i'm doing the same thing over and over and over.

1 weapon for the rest of the game ? please don't give me that "it's not soulsborne crap", there should have been more weapons for gameplay variety.

bosses are exactly as i feared from the trailers, mostly boring humans, just like Dark souls 3, however, in Sekiro it's worst because every boss has the SAME FUCKING MECHANIC DUE TO THE LIMITED AND REPETITIVE GAMEPLAY.

i expected much more from the game, although i'm still early in the game, but i doubt anything would change.
different strokes for different folks, to me Sekiro has one of the most satisfying sword combat I ever experienced.
 
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Vtecomega

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What a disappointment of a game. Bloodborne is my favorite game of all time so I came in with huge expectations. The combat is good but everything around it sucks balls. The game is not fun. The difficulty feels cheap and artificial. I forced my self to get to the guardian ape and switched the game off once he re spawned with a second health bar.

Traded it in and never gave it a second thought.

Gaming is dead. All overrated trash.
 
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kiiltz

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I honestly found the Guardian Ape easy as piss.

The fucking dual wield monkeys can fuck right off though.

Also, it boggles my mind how people don't find landing a clean parry satisfying.
 

#Phonepunk#

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it is like Castlevania where it has one weapon but the variety is in the sub weapons. it is almost exactly like those old games, including costing consumables you get from killing enemies. combat is fine tuned to the main weapon yet there are as many side weapons here as there are weapons in Bloodborne.

seriously i love the incorporation of side weapons. they can alter the combat at a moment's notice. you can use them Mega Man style, with certain weapons specifically dangerous for certain enemies. people complain about having to apply a buff and then also say it's not an RPG lol. this is pure ARPG at it's finest.

the combat is the fairest & yet most instense they've ever done. complicated weapon stats are eliminated. differences in rolling are eliminated. stamina bar is eliminated. infinite run/dash a la Bloodborne. the one weapon makes it pure combat. best game they've made yet and i can't wait to see what's next.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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btw i am going for Purification Ending and just got to the Hirata returns boss fight but kind of want to continue in Fountainhead before tackling what i've heard is a really hard battle. do i just need to kill him before the end game boss? or does he have to be done before other bosses to get the ending?
 
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Danjin44

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btw i am going for Purification Ending and just got to the Hirata returns boss fight but kind of want to continue in Fountainhead before tackling what i've heard is a really hard battle. do i just need to kill him before the end game boss? or does he have to be done before other bosses to get the ending?
I’m not entirely sure but I personally killed the boss before going in to Fountainhead just to be in safe side.
 
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Tako Ou

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btw i am going for Purification Ending and just got to the Hirata returns boss fight but kind of want to continue in Fountainhead before tackling what i've heard is a really hard battle. do i just need to kill him before the end game boss? or does he have to be done before other bosses to get the ending?
Like Danjin44, I'm not entirely sure, but I personally cleared the whole fountainhead except for the very end before dealing with Hirata 2.0.
So at least you are safe to explore the area.
However past that I don't know, finishing the area is a major turning point for several elements in the game, it would be safer to clear Hirata before that.

If you want some indications about where exploring fountainhead ends :
After you go through the underground water cavern with the fish, if you go up the stairs all the way there is a small cave with a person in it after a sculptor's idol, you should not go into the cave until you are ready to move forward.
Everything else is safe to explore, of that I'm sure.
 
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Clear

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Not to turn this into Sekiro versus Nioh, but I have to admit I wish FROM had moved more in the direction that Team Ninja did in terms of overall approach rather than the streamlining type of deal they seem to have employed since Bloodborne.

Replaying Nioh at the moment and it does many things so much better than any of FROM's games. It wouldn't hurt to offer at least some of the ideas that it brings to the Soulsborne formula.
 

Danjin44

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Not to turn this into Sekiro versus Nioh, but I have to admit I wish FROM had moved more in the direction that Team Ninja did in terms of overall approach rather than the streamlining type of deal they seem to have employed since Bloodborne.

Replaying Nioh at the moment and it does many things so much better than any of FROM's games. It wouldn't hurt to offer at least some of the ideas that it brings to the Soulsborne formula.
This mostly my personal taste but honestly didn’t like Nioh’s combat or the level design. I for one happy what FROM did with Sekiro in the end and in my opinion the sword combat was best one I experienced.
 
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Northeastmonk

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This mostly my personal taste but honestly didn’t like Nioh’s combat or the level design. I for one happy what FROM did with Sekiro in the end and in my opinion the sword combat was best one I experienced.
I second this. Doing the main mission was fine, but those sub missions in Nioh felt rough. I also didn't like how you started each mission and the way you had to exit them too. I really wish Nioh would have been more open world in its design. The way these types of games save your status isn't designed to be mission based. I also would rather have a parry technique in Sekiro than have to do a recovery attack. I'd say they are way too different. Nioh also focused a lot more on Japanese folklore versus Sekiro being a brand new experience.
 

Tako Ou

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Not to turn this into Sekiro versus Nioh, but I have to admit I wish FROM had moved more in the direction that Team Ninja did in terms of overall approach rather than the streamlining type of deal they seem to have employed since Bloodborne.

Replaying Nioh at the moment and it does many things so much better than any of FROM's games. It wouldn't hurt to offer at least some of the ideas that it brings to the Soulsborne formula.
What elements exactly are much better to you ?
I am really curious because I don't see which mechanics from Nioh Sekiro would need to improve without altering its core philosophy.

To me Nioh is very different, it quickly becomes a loot driven game, while it's somewhat fluid in the first playthrough, after that you end up replaying the same missions many times just to get some better loot from RNG, then its to farm for fusing equipment to get the best, etc...
So your drive to play the game is nothing like a From's Souls game.
I never played them specifically to get the loot, it was to beat the challenge and immerse myself in their atmosphere.

Note that I am not saying Nioh is at fault in any way, it's just a different philosophy. I actually do love Nioh and am eagerly expecting its 2nd opus.
 

#Phonepunk#

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always heard Nioh's level design was blah, and Sekiro is even cooler than From's usually high standards, with the addition of the grapple hook. might check out that game someday, tho i will probably try out one of the Tenchus before that.

I’m not entirely sure but I personally killed the boss before going in to Fountainhead just to be in safe side.
well im in Fountainhead and have been using it for leveling and getting lapis lazuli from the ghost mini boss & fishies. i still have access to the Owl fight. i bet it works as long as you defeat him a the very end for the endgame object.

Owl (Father) is super tough, but i almost have the first phase figured out. you can get very far w blocking & using your combat art of choice. i get to second phase with 7 or more gourds but he still trashes me. i did find this cool video using High Monk against him. wouldn't mind trying this but im too partial towards Whirlwind Slash.

 
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Clear

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What elements exactly are much better to you ?
I am really curious because I don't see which mechanics from Nioh Sekiro would need to improve without altering its core philosophy.

To me Nioh is very different, it quickly becomes a loot driven game, while it's somewhat fluid in the first playthrough, after that you end up replaying the same missions many times just to get some better loot from RNG, then its to farm for fusing equipment to get the best, etc...
So your drive to play the game is nothing like a From's Souls game.
I never played them specifically to get the loot, it was to beat the challenge and immerse myself in their atmosphere.

Note that I am not saying Nioh is at fault in any way, it's just a different philosophy. I actually do love Nioh and am eagerly expecting its 2nd opus.
Here are things that aren't directly related to the way the games are constructed, i.e. contiguous areas as opposed to discrete mission maps.

1. The option to prioritize frame-rate or resolution.
2. Real, viable, build-diversity.
3. In-game tutorials for build styles (equivalent to Dojo missions in Nioh).
3. Comprehensive stat-tracking and in-game achievements that confer perks.
4. NG+ handling actually significantly changing zone population and behavior, providing rewards that are equal to the enhanced difficulty, and most importantly allow NG+ to be switched dynamically allowing the player to really enjoy the fruits of their enhanced performance.

We all love the connectedness of FROM's game design, however as demonstrated by Bloodborne's chalice dungeons, there's no reason why progress shouldn't be rewarded by unlocking bonus areas containing specific challenges.

Although Nioh uses a more traditional menu-based hub, is it really that different from the Souls' titles?

By the end of all of the Souls games point-to-point fast-travel is unlocked, and you have a clearly defined "base camp" for storage/upgrade purposes, making the distinction largely cosmetic in my view. While you can very well argue the benefits for immersion, you are still spending a bunch of time looking at a menu of location lists.

The primary difference I guess is Nioh takes a far more maximalist approach, most clearly illustrated by its loot itemization and all the subsystems that modify it. Weapons and armor can be crafted or bought, upgraded by level using soul matching, selectively re-specced by tempering and reforging, They can be sold or dismantled for crafting parts/xp currency, specific combinations confer bonuses etc.

The menu also allows for a more liberal and player-controlled take on co-op and pvp, it has a faction system for perks, allowing for fun bonuses like allowing the player to change their appearance to that of one of many friendly and hostile NPC's.

This willingness to embrace the "gamey-ness" is really the major point of differentiation in my view. Collecting Kodama's is a fun diversion from the core combat, but it adds to the experience because it has real value to the core combat/loot loop. The same deal applies to the whole Living Weapon systems, which lends the entire game a more RPG'ish character, but works really well as its correctly integrated into the combat mainloop.

Its a deeper, but more flexible and accessible approach on the whole, which to me seems much more in tune with the direction that Dark Souls 2 was heading before the (unjust in my opinion) negative backlash seemingly caused FROM to reconsider their direction.

The sad part is most of what people were vocally negative about in DS2, were not things related to its systems, being more related to its troubled development history and the compromises that resulted.

Anyway, sorry to go on at such length, but the truth is there's a lot of ground to cover.

tl;dr; Maximalism done right > Minimalism done right.
 
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What a disappointment of a game. Bloodborne is my favorite game of all time so I came in with huge expectations. The combat is good but everything around it sucks balls. The game is not fun. The difficulty feels cheap and artificial. I forced my self to get to the guardian ape and switched the game off once he re spawned with a second health bar.

Traded it in and never gave it a second thought.

Gaming is dead. All overrated trash.
F👏A👏C👏T👏S

YASSSSS QUEEN.
 

wzy

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What makes the Kodamas so egregious though is precisely that they do affect gameplay, i.e., obligate you to do something tedious and horrible.
 

Fbh

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Finally fought Owl (Father) in NG+. I went for the other ending in my first playthrough so this is the first time.
Dude was hard as hell, I think he gave me more issues then the final boss.

Fun fight though
 

#Phonepunk#

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Finally fought Owl (Father) in NG+. I went for the other ending in my first playthrough so this is the first time.
Dude was hard as hell, I think he gave me more issues then the final boss.

Fun fight though
yes! i just beat him too. first phase didn't take too long to figure out, it's quite close to his first in-game fight.

second phase is tricky, but once you figure out avoiding the Owl and the fire attack, it's basically the same as the first. the Owl you just have to run from when it looks like they are going to dive into the ground. the fire attack, just jump left or right and get ready for a free Mikiri counter.

awesome fight! damn this game is full of the best fights they have ever done.

sad i have beaten all the bosses in the game. bring on the DLC!
 
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royox

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What a disappointment of a game. Bloodborne is my favorite game of all time so I came in with huge expectations. The combat is good but everything around it sucks balls. The game is not fun. The difficulty feels cheap and artificial. I forced my self to get to the guardian ape and switched the game off once he re spawned with a second health bar.

Traded it in and never gave it a second thought.

Gaming is dead. All overrated trash.

What's so hard about that boss?