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SemiAccurate: Nintendo NX handheld to use Nvidia Tegra-based Soc

-Horizon-

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Aug 29, 2012
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::kid wants new thing that plays pokemon::

::mom buys kid new thing that plays pokemon::

::kids boots up new thing that plays pokemon for the first time::




...ok probably not so much when plugged into a tv lol but the handheld will probably be great
 

ecosse_011172

Junior Member
Jul 20, 2007
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I always find it funny how Spanish people tell me they can't understand Portuguese at all but the Portuguese can understand Spanish mostly lol.


It's Kevin. Don't do this.
That's nonsense, I'm a fluent Spanish speaker and travelled around Brazil speaking Spanish and understanding Portuguese. Spanish is much easier for Portuguese speakers than vice versa but Spanish speakers can read Portuguese relatively easily and understand various amounts of spoken Portuguese.
"Can't understand at all" is horseshit but people love to exaggerate .
 

10k

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Mar 20, 2012
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That's nonsense, I'm a fluent Spanish speaker and travelled around Brazil speaking Spanish and understanding Portuguese. Spanish is much easier for Portuguese speakers than vice versa but Spanish speakers can read Portuguese relatively easily and understand various amounts of spoken Portuguese.
"Can't understand at all" is horseshit but people love to exaggerate .

It was anecdotal obviously. And it didn't refer to writing. It was the dialogue. My Colombian friend can't understand when my family starts speaking Portuguese to each other but we can understand him and all the novella's on TV lol.

But back on topic, NateDrake is essentially saying shit's about to go down.

Azorean Portuguese.

Furnas, Sao Miguel! Represent!

 

joesiv

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Jun 7, 2012
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Maybe. Just because it's Pascal based doesn't mean it will be incredibly powerful. The GPU can scale down significantly.

Agreed. We all need to temper our expectations! Even if it's pascal based, X2, whatever, if it's a custom design they could do anything to it, sacrifice cores for more embedded memory for example, Nintendo loves memory-focused chips.

not to mention, to keep it cool for portable, it will likely be downclocked severely, look at the 3DS, DS, or any portable basically, Nintendo is always on the conservative side compared to what it's chips are "capable" of.

Not to mention that Tegra based portables like the Shield, have always had an active fan in them to keep the thing cool, which makes them bigger, and prone to failure, I'm not sure Nintendo would ever put a fan in it's portable.

Mind you plugged into the dock, who knows what it'll be capable of.

Regarding the X1 being overclocked in the Dev Kits, all Tegra based machines have active fans in them, so we don't know if it's over clocked or whatever, could be underclocked, and Nintendo is just being Nintendo.

How about that, the X2 could be a severely underclocked X2 Pascal based, which performs less than the X1 in the Shield TV, due to clocks, and missing cores to increase yields, but it's super efficient due to the increased embedded memory?

I'm just being devils advocate here, let's keep our expectation in check!

ps, this is fun isn't it, reminds me of all the WiiU anticipation threads... lol
 

10k

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Well of course. Not being in the console business hurt their feelings. You can only be salty for so long. Maybe it's also that they just needed someone to buy spare Tegras.
Aren't the spare Tegras at 20nm which nobody wants to use? I'd assume the Tegras in the nx handheld will be new 16nm ones.
 

defferoo

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Aug 29, 2007
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Aren't the spare Tegras at 20nm which nobody wants to use? I'd assume the Tegras in the nx handheld will be new 16nm ones.

pretty sure they don't just have spare Tegras lying around... my sister does demand planning for Nvidia and they need to be really on point with the number of chips they manufacture.
 

brad-t

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Sep 4, 2013
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Let's clarify, though:

It's their market leading successes that have always been connected to their lateral thinking with withered technology strategy.

I don't know if this can work anymore when huge portions of your addressable audience carry very advanced devices with them at all times.
 

LegendofLex

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Aug 21, 2013
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I don't know if this can work anymore when huge portions of your addressable audience carry very advanced devices with them at all times.

It all depends on whether there's a hunger for the game experiences, though, doesn't it?

Sometimes they use old technology in a way that results in games people trip over each other for (The Legend of Zelda with its battery-powered saves, Wii Sports with its gesture-controlled sports).

Sometimes they use old technology and all we get are games most people don't care about (Nintendo Land with its asymmetrical minigames based on Nintendo IP, Star Fox Zero).
 

Night Angel

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Aug 18, 2013
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Well of course. Not being in the console business hurt their feelings. You can only be salty for so long. Maybe it's also that they just needed someone to buy spare Tegras.
That's not how businesses operate.

I'm highly skeptical of this rumor.
 

jdstorm

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Jan 21, 2016
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That's not how businesses operate.

I'm highly skeptical of this rumor.

Isnt the rumour that Nvidia had a contract with a manufacturer for a certain amount of chips that they weren't going to need since the X1 largely flopped.

Nvidia was hoping to renegotiate that deal as it would cost them 300M to back out. In comes Nintendo. so even if Nvidia sold the chips at cost. It would be saving them 300M by not having to back out of the first deal.
 

Fourth Storm

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Feb 17, 2006
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That's not how businesses operate.

I'm highly skeptical of this rumor.

Isnt the rumour that Nvidia had a contract with a manufacturer for a certain amount of chips that they weren't going to need since the X1 largely flopped.

Nvidia was hoping to renegotiate that deal as it would cost them 300M to back out. In comes Nintendo. so even if Nvidia sold the chips at cost. It would be saving them 300M by not having to back out of the first deal.

I've never heard that rumor jdstorm. Do you have a source on that? Sounds like rampant speculation in order to justify this supposed deal Nintendo are getting. But the way I see it, the deal with Nvidia is on the Tegra IP along with a contract for software support, assistance and design collaboration. Nintendo would still also be paying TSMC directly to fabricate the wafers for them.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Mar 10, 2007
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Nvidia has no logical reason to be "desperate" to get into the console business, with it's thin profit margins. It's a narrative AMD apologists have run with, but it holds no water.

They literally don't need the action. There's simply no way they jumped in, to take a loss.
 

jdstorm

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I've never heard that rumor jdstorm. Do you have a source on that? Sounds like rampant speculation in order to justify this supposed deal Nintendo are getting. But the way I see it, the deal with Nvidia is on the Tegra IP along with a contract for software support, assistance and design collaboration. Nintendo would still also be paying TSMC directly to fabricate the wafers for them.

It's probably just speculation that I read on GAF. That I'm repeating as fact.
My Bad
Post 19 on page 1 of this thread details the theory.
 

sfried

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Apr 25, 2009
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Nvidia has no logical reason to be "desperate" to get into the console business, with it's thin profit margins. It's a narrative AMD apologists have run with, but it holds no water.

They literally don't need the action. There's simply no way they jumped in, to take a loss.

That's one of the reasons why I'm still skeptical about the whole Nvidia + Nintendo deal.
 

Cobra84

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May 11, 2006
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Nvidia has no logical reason to be "desperate" to get into the console business, with it's thin profit margins. It's a narrative AMD apologists have run with, but it holds no water.

They literally don't need the action. There's simply no way they jumped in, to take a loss.

They are desperate for Tegra sales. Teslas and some under performing tablets aren't going to make keeping their mobile division worthwhile.
 

BDGAME

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::kid wants new thing that plays pokemon::

::mom buys kid new thing that plays pokemon::

::kids boots up new thing that plays pokemon for the first time::


best argument I read here.

Plus Ubi tell us it is a casual machine and Sega announce only the 3D Sonic.

Man... I will down my expectations.
 

Kimawolf

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Sep 15, 2012
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Nvidia has no logical reason to be "desperate" to get into the console business, with it's thin profit margins. It's a narrative AMD apologists have run with, but it holds no water.

They literally don't need the action. There's simply no way they jumped in, to take a loss.
Well a nintendo system will sell more product than just about anything Nvidia will sell on its own (other than car stuff).

So,i imagine it'd be a good win for them.
 

LordOfChaos

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Mar 31, 2014
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A great analysis by Thraktor, as usual from him. But the hypothesis about the shared SoC across hh and home does not see much support in the analysis. At the end of the day, a pricey SoC is a pricey SoC, whether you can physically host it in a hh environment or not.

While on the subject of NX hh getting within a throwing CPU distance from the ps4/xbone, here's a test I did recently on something more practical for general-computing peformance - binary searches in real-life-sized datasets.

The test is single-core, and the participants are a Bobcat @1.333GHz, two A53s at 1.5GHz and 1.51GHz, respectievly, and an Ivy Bridge @1.6GHz. The results clearly show that while naive code runs better on the Bobcat, properly-optimized code (in terms of data access, not instructions) can be as performant on the A53 at a minimal clock advantage over the bobcat, and more importantly, a comparable RAM bus. What that means is that given ~6 cores have been traditionally made available to apps on the ps4/xbone, a cluster of 2GHz A53s (and a separate small dedicated core for the OS, wii/wiiU-style) can be also within a throwing distance for general-purpose computing, given an adequate RAM bus.



I've been curious about your other test more and more, the one I believe you coined and I paraphrase the "blu needs to throw together a benchmark benchmark", which had the results

Code:
| CPU | N-way SIMD ALUs | flops/clock/core |
| ------------------------- | ---------------- | ---------------- |
| IBM PowerPC 750CL (Wii U CPU) | 2-way | 1.51 |
| AMD Bobcat | 2-way | 1.47 |
| Intel Sandy Bridge | 8-way | 9.04 |
| Intel Ivy Bridge (no SMT) | 8-way | 8.82 |
| Intel Ivy Bridge | 8-way | 9.09 |
| Intel Haswell | 8-way | 9.56 |
| Intel Xeon Phi / KNC | 16-way | 6.62 |
| iMX53 Cortex-A8 | 2-way | 2.23 |
| RK3368 Cortex-A53 | 2-way | 2.42 |
| AppliedMicro X-Gene 1 | 2-way | 2.71 |
| Apple A7 | 4-way | 11.07 |
| Apple A8 | 4-way | 12.19 |
| Apple A9 | 4-way | 16.79 |

What workload is that from curiously? If KNC is doing worse than Haswell it's obviously not something that is making good use of the vector instruction set on KNC of course. Similar Haswell+ should do a fair bit better than anything previous if AVX2 is being used, but I'm guessing the workload is just not hammering FLOPS in a way that it shows up. Any chance I can see it?


Also since I'm drudging the numbers up I'll take the liberty of adding the caveat - Jaguar shouldn't be assumed to be like Bobcat there as it doubles the SIMD ALUs, the total cache, etc.
 

SScorpio

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Apr 24, 2012
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That's also likely the part which is "semi" accurate.



They are not "desperate" in the slightest.



Auto is basically all Tegra based.

Their stock is also just under double what it was at the start of the year. So investors don't think they are struggling either.
 
Aug 24, 2009
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Their stock is also just under double what it was at the start of the year. So investors don't think they are struggling either.

eh, to respond to both you and the person you responded to, nVidia doesn't have to be struggling in order for them to be "desperate" for a console win. I put desperate in quotes as that's not an accurate term. it'd be more precise to say another continuous revenue stream means growth which means more investors buying in which means a larger budget for the Tegra/SoC division. thus, the management of that division has strong incentive to tell their licensing division to secure licensees in as many industries as possible including the console industry if possible.