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[AmyS]

X1 is 1.5 years old and will be more than 2 years old by the time NX releases
Pascal is ready and ships within days and 14/16 nm for small chips have been ready since September, going 28nm (20nm?) with a gpu architecture from 2014 today would be so bad but it would also be such a Nintendo thing to do.

This is the Pascal-based Tegra architecture for Nvidia Drive PX2

Probably not outdated either, unlike Tegra Parker that was based on Maxwell. Nvidia could probably "Nv-Custom" anything they want for Nintendo, almost as easily as AMD does semi-custom.

Anyway, it would be extremely interesting if Nvidia got the Nintendo handheld GPU deal and AMD got the Nintendo home console GPU deal.

Or Nvidia got both. Or this is all BS. Or Nvidia lost *again* and AMD is getting everything.

Spoiler

or Imagination Technologies swooped in with PowerVR and steals a deal or every deal. I think they're in every iOS device ever made, not to mention some of the other mobiles

 

[Vanillalite]

Drive PX2 probably IS Parker. Delays in their lineup for the past years dictates this is probably the case.

Sure Parker was suppose to be Maxwell. It was also suppose to be out last year in the original timeline.

Drive PX2 is a new chip. No reason it isn't parker.

What we've yet to see is this in something that isn't a car chipset.

 

[AmyS]

^ Alright, that makes sense to me.

So anyway, Nvidia is 2/4 on getting design wins for gaming systems by console manufacturers. At least from what I know of.


lost: Sega Saturn successor (NV2 chip, around ~1996)
won: OG XBOX - contract in 2000 right before GDC, released in 2001
won: Sony PS3 - contract made official in Dec 2004, released in 2006
lost: rumored 3DS contract, around 2009-2010

 

[GhostTrick]

X1 is 1.5 years old and will be more than 2 years old by the time NX releases
Pascal is ready and ships within days and 14/16 nm for small chips have been ready since September, going 28nm (20nm?) with a gpu architecture from 2014 today would be so bad but it would also be such a Nintendo thing to do.

X1 in a handheld would be pretty good even at 300mhz.
It would be a huge leap over Vita. And perform beyond Wii U. It'd be an even bigger jump if they had a 540p screen.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

So Nintendo will be using Nvidia.

 

[Qwyjibo]

The handheld is the only aspect of the "NX" that I am interested in. I'm set for home consoles/gaming and there just isn't room for Nintendo there anymore. If the handheld NX continues on the awesome game library that the 3DS had, I'm in.

 

[Astral Dog]

But what about the RAM

 

[Vanillalite]

But what about the RAM

LPDDR4

 

[LeleSocho]

This is the Pascal-based Tegra architecture for Nvidia Drive PX2

Probably not outdated either, unlike Tegra Parker that was based on Maxwell. Nvidia could probably "Nv-Custom" anything they want for Nintendo, almost as easily as AMD does semi-custom.

Anyway, it would be extremely interesting if Nvidia got the Nintendo handheld GPU deal and AMD got the Nintendo home console GPU deal.

Or Nvidia got both. Or this is all BS. Or Nvidia lost *again* and AMD is getting everything.

Spoiler

or Imagination Technologies swooped in with PowerVR and steals a deal or every deal. I think they're in every iOS device ever made, not to mention some of the other mobiles

No way they'll use different vendors for handheld and home console.
To me all Nvidia makes the most sense in any case because it's the only one that factually has made something that shares a gpu architecture in both desktop and mobile, surely Nintendo could request a custom chip with preferred amounts of cpu/gpu cores.
AMD's K-12 seems more vaporware than a reality at this point and was server based anyway while Imagination Technologies just doesn't offer anything competitive for the home console version.

 

[chaosblade]

But what about the RAM

Probably LPDDR4. In terms of quantity across form factors, I dunno how they would handle that.

 

[Vanillalite]

No way they'll use different vendors for handheld and home console.
To me all Nvidia makes the most sense in any case because it's the only one that factually has made something that shares a gpu architecture in both desktop and mobile, surely Nintendo could request a custom chip with preferred amounts of cpu/gpu cores.
AMD's K-12 seems more vaporware than a reality at this point and was server based anyway while Imagination Technologies just doesn't offer anything competitive for the home console version.

This has been my mind fuck catch 22 for fucking a year now.

I've yet to find a way to reconcile it in my mind either.

 

[LeleSocho]

X1 in a handheld would be pretty good even at 300mhz.
It would be a huge leap over Vita. And perform beyond Wii U. It'd be an even bigger jump if they had a 540p screen.

It's not a matter of what jump does offer it's a matter of using an outdated process node and gpu architecture.
A Pascal based SoC that performs like the X1 would be better than the X1 itself for a number of reasons.

 

[Oblivion]

LPDDR4

Is this better or worse than GDDR5?

 

[Somnid]

Probably LPDDR4. In terms of quantity across form factors, I dunno how they would handle that.

DDR4 would be expensive, even high-end phones don't use it.

 

[LeleSocho]

This has been my mind fuck catch 22 for fucking a year now.

I've yet to find a way to reconcile it in my mind either.

They have to go completely bonkers to do something like that, it doesn't fit in any way with what they want to do strategy wise for the present and the future

 

[Vanillalite]

DD4 would be expensive, even high-end phones don't use it.

Wut?

 

[Astral Dog]

This is for the handheld.

Spoiler

It would be a bit faster than Wii U

. The console is discussed in the other thread, and it's on-par with Xbone, give or take. I don't think that Nintendo saw those upgrades coming at all.

really!? wow that sounds more than expected, good news for the handheld!

and would make may concerns go away about Nintendo making sub Wii U graphics on NX console. the little thing is going to be a beast (for a handheld)

 

[tuxfool]

Is this better or worse than GDDR5?

Depends on your criteria. In terms of memory bandwidth, much worse. In terms of power consumption, much better.

 

[Schnozberry]

Is this better or worse than GDDR5?

Slightly worse, but it would be competitive.

 

[Astral Dog]

LPDDR4

Probably LPDDR4. In terms of quantity across form factors, I dunno how they would handle that.

i should check what that is

 

[sfried]

No way they'll use different vendors for handheld and home console.

How so? Considering if like the Android platform, the NX will be hardware agnostic, it would make sense...

 

[kennyamr]

another day, another rumor

 

[LeleSocho]

How so? Considering if like the Android platform, the NX will be hardware agnostic, it would make sense...

Because if you want to have the same software run on these things making the two hardwares two different architectures for gpu would be a nightmare.

 

[Somnid]

Because if you want to have the same software run on these things making the two hardwares two different architectures for gpu would be a nightmare.

That's why OpenGL/Vulkan exist, nobody writes GPU specific code.

 

[sfried]

Because if you want to have the same software run on these things making the two hardwares two different architectures for gpu would be a nightmare.

Not unless they share a sort of OS layer and have a common API running over it.

 

[CronoShot]

Because if you want to have the same software run on these things making the two hardwares two different architectures for gpu would be a nightmare.

Android has a shit ton of different hardware all running the same apps/games.

 

[sfried]

That's why OpenGL/Vulkan exist, nobody writes GPU specific code.

Didn't Nintendo recently become part of the Khronos Group too? This would make a lot of sense...

 

[LeleSocho]

That's why OpenGL/Vulkan exist, nobody writes GPU specific code.

Not unless they share a sort of OS layer and have a common API running over it.

Hello?
We are not talking about some general purpose application we are talking about highly optimized software such as games.
The advantage consoles have are being closed systems with low level proprietary APIs that take advantage of the specific hardware, using two different hw architecture would mean twice the work for an API that would not take advantage of neither because it has to work for the lowest common denominator.

 

[J@hranimo]

another day, another rumor

Yup. Preeeeeeeetty much.

Although this is a little more interesting because no one has said anything about Nvidia with either the Console or Handheld for the NX so I suppose it can lend to more discussion.

 

[sfried]

Yup. Preeeeeeeetty much.

Although this is a little more interesting because no one has said anything about Nvidia with either the Console or Handheld for the NX so I suppose it can lend to more discussion.

Hmm, where was it comfirmed that there was going to be a separate console/handheld hardware release? Wasn't that also a rumor?

 

[Vanillalite]

That's why OpenGL/Vulcan exist, nobody writes GPU specific code.

The original rumors in one of the last threads was about how the NX console was def gonna be AMD Polaris based because of a specific GPU feature only found in Polaris in supposed dev documents.

So you can see why some people go down this train of thought.

Plus just cause both could use say Vulkan doesn't mean each system would be 1 to 1 api compliant. We're at Vulkan 1.0 for now

 

[Daft Punk]

But I thought Nvidia didn't need consoles?

 

[Vanillalite]

Android has a shit ton of different hardware all running the same apps/games.

They also have a shit ton of different performance.

If the games are gonna be the same on each it could "run" on both just like you can run games on different Android phones. Doesn't mean a 3 year old Android phone runs Hearthstone to the same fps stanard as say the just launched Galaxy S7.

 

[Nanashrew]

Didn't Nintendo recently become part of the Khronos Group too? This would make a lot of sense...

Yep, then later they became part of the Vulkan working group in Khronos, as is Sony and many others.

 

[Somnid]

Hello?
We are not talking about some general purpose application we are talking about highly optimized software such as games.
The advantage consoles have are being closed systems with low level proprietary APIs that take advantage of the specific hardware, using two different hw architecture would mean twice the work for an API that would not take advantage of neither because it has to work for the lowest common denominator.

That's what graphics APIs do, they make it so the same code runs on hardware form various manufacturers. The differences would be performance based but those are handled holistically because the specs will be different but whether AMD or Nvidia or MediaTek makes your GPU, it doesn't matter from a code standpoint.

 

[DonMigs85]

Slightly worse, but it would be competitive.

It's low-power DDR4, the performance/bandwidth will be FAR worse. GDDR5 is tuned for high clockspeeds, LPDDR memory is like regular-ass desktop/laptop system RAM chips optimized for lower power consumption.

 

[Jay RaR]

Man Nvidia software plus Nintendo portable hardware sounds like a great combination.

 

[Vanillalite]

That's what graphics APIs do, they make it so the same code runs on hardware form various manufacturers. The differences would be performance based but those are handled holistically because the specs will be different but whether AMD or Nvidia or MediaTek makes your GPU, it doesn't matter from a code standpoint.

This is Nintendo though. They aren't gonna be like runs at 60fps on our console.

You can also take it on the go in our meek doge NX handheld edition that runs at a choppy 25-30fps with dips into the teens with high action scenes.

 

[antonz]

It's low-power DDR4, the performance/bandwidth will be FAR worse. GDDR5 is tuned for high clockspeeds, LPDDR memory is like regular-ass desktop/laptop system RAM chips optimized for lower power consumption.

For a device that would theoretically be around PS3/360/Wii U level or slightly above LPDDR4 would work just fine.

 

[Votron]

If this is the K1 or X1, it's much, much more powerful.

ALOT ALOT MORE powerful for sure...

 

[DonMigs85]

That's what graphics APIs do, they make it so the same code runs on hardware form various manufacturers. The differences would be performance based but those are handled holistically because the specs will be different but whether AMD or Nvidia or MediaTek makes your GPU, it doesn't matter from a code standpoint.

Not in this age of Vulkan and DX12. It's possible now to tweak games to take advantage of a specific architecture's strengths. Ashes of the Singularity for example went for a more balanced approach, while other games might make more use of AMD's asynchronous compute.

 

[CronoShot]

They also have a shit ton of different performance.

If the games are gonna be the same on each it could "run" on both just like you can run games on different Android phones. Doesn't mean a 3 year old Android phone runs Hearthstone to the same fps stanard as say the just launched Galaxy S7.

I'm not talking about old phones vs new phones.

Hell, the Galaxy S7 is the perfect example. Some variants have the Snapdragon 820 SoC, and some have the Exynos 8890 SoC. Completely different hardware, but can still run the same games with basically the same peformance.

Edit: Nevermind, can't read.

 

[DonMigs85]

For a device that would theoretically be around PS3/360/Wii U level or slightly above LPDDR4 would work just fine.

Correct, because it only has to deliver at least 20-30GB/sec of bandwidth to match those consoles.

 

[Vanillalite]

I'm not talking about old phones vs new phones.

Hell, the Galaxy S7 is the perfect example. Some variants have the Snapdragon 820 SoC, and some have the Exynos 8890 SoC. Completely different hardware, but can still run the same games with basically the same peformance.

Those have basically the same power level.

Only reason Samsung uses two chips is they have to pay Qualcomm royalties.

Why would you source two different chipsets of basically the same power level from two different vendors if you didn't have to?

 

[CronoShot]

Those have basically the same power level.

Only reason Samsung uses two chips is they have to pay Qualcomm royalties.

Why would you source two different chipsets of basically the same power level from two different vendors if you didn't have to?

Nevermind, I get what you're saying now.

Still, Android games often have PC-esque settings for games so lower end hardware can run them smoother. Not to mention a handheld will not be rendering at the resolution a console will be,

It won't be exactly the same, certainly. But they won't be worlds apart either.

 

[Schnozberry]

It's low-power DDR4, the performance/bandwidth will be FAR worse. GDDR5 is tuned for high clockspeeds, LPDDR memory is like regular-ass desktop/laptop system RAM chips optimized for lower power consumption.

Depends on the clocks and the bus.

 

[Otakumegane]

Handheld shouldn't use DDR4 anyway. Battery life is important. 3DS had some short lasting charges.

 

[Omadahl]

Why would Nvidia made a deal at a loss?

It sounds like the can afford it and it gets them back at the table when the other console-makers want to talk new hardware. If they're desperate to get a foot in the door, Nintendo seems to be offering just that.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Portable chipset. Makes sense for a hybrid.

 

[Somnid]

Not in this age of Vulkan and DX12. It's possible now to tweak games to take advantage of a specific architecture's strengths. Ashes of the Singularity for example went for a more balanced approach, while other games might make more use of AMD's asynchronous compute.

That's still an API feature that can be opted into if your GPU supports it, if both nvidia and AMD support async compute then you're not rewriting for each implementation of it.