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Senate healthcare repeal bill fails - Collins, Murkowski, and McCain voted no

Aug 8, 2013
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Long Island, NY
I don't know what else to say other than McCain is a super gangsta.

Everyone was wishing death one him for voting yes, only to make the ultra heel turn.

Plus, the Caeser Thumbs Down fake-out? Almost too gangsta.
 

Carn82

Member
Jan 15, 2014
4,115
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505
maybe posted already, but I liked Robert Reich's take on McCain.

A word about Senator John McCain, who today voted against Mitch McConnell’s last-ditch attempt to repeal (and “replace”) the Affordable Care Act. In doing so, McCain brought the whole shameful effort to a close.

I’ve been a close watcher of McCain for many years. I’ve often been disappointed by him. His decision to make Sarah Palin his vice presidential candidate, for example, contributed to lowering the bar for American politics.

But let me just say this. McCain has a conscience. He also has something that’s in short supply in Washington today: integrity.

They may inhabit the same political party, but John McCain is the opposite of Donald Trump.

Trump has no principles. He has maturity of a 3-year old, the character of a conman, and the attention-span of a fruitfly. He cares only about his personal wealth and power, and has and will do anything to enlarge both.

One of my memories of John McCain occurred in the 2008 presidential campaign at a town hall event in Minnesota, in response to a supporter who said he was “scared” at the prospect of an Obama presidency.

"I have to tell you,” said McCain, “Senator Obama is a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States.”

The Republican crowd booed. “Come on, John!” one audience member yelled out. Others yelled that Obama was a "liar," and "terrorist.”

McCain quieted the crowd and passed his wireless microphone to a woman who immediately said, "I can't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's not, he's not uh — he's an Arab. He's not… "

McCain snapped up the microphone from her and replied:
"No, ma'am. He's a decent family man [and] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign's all about. He's not [an Arab]."

Donald Trump has made America more hateful. John McCain has made it more honorable.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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maybe posted already, but I liked Robert Reich's take on McCain.

I don't. This guy has voted time and time again to denigrate and degrade the people of this country. He's a bitter old man who did one really good thing. I'll give him credit for that but he has no integrity.
 

AstroNut325

Member
Oct 15, 2011
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San Gabriel Valley, SoCal

LOL.. this is too perfect!
 

Carn82

Member
Jan 15, 2014
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I don't. This guy has voted time and time again to denigrate and degrade the people of this country. He's a bitter old man who did one really good thing. I'll give him credit for that but he has no integrity.

I kinda cringe at the "decent man" part, countering Obama being called an Arab. Just feels gross.

fair points. (small disclaimer: im not American so I mostly know McCain from when he ran for president; I get where the "McCain has no spine" jokes are coming from but I'm sure I didnt get all the twists and turns of his recent political manouvers)
 

BBboy20

Member
Sep 9, 2013
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I don't. This guy has voted time and time again to denigrate and degrade the people of this country. He's a bitter old man who did one really good thing. I'll give him credit for that but he has no integrity.
And the silencing of Elizabeth Warren.
 

ratcliffja

Member
May 13, 2005
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McCain's intention countering that comment is really a non issue unless if you want to take it out of context.

Yeah he knew where that was going. The implication was that he was a foreign Muslim terrorist, which he shut down. That's the main thing that made me respect him during that campaign. I strongly disagree with a lot of his policies and find him to tow the line WAY too much all in the name of his "greater good" but at least he mostly sticks to attacks on Democrats from a policy standpoint and not making up slanderous accusations about their personal lives.
 

Matt

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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I kinda cringe at the "decent man" part, countering Obama being called an Arab. Just feels gross.
If you watch the actual video, it's clear that's not what he meant. The crowd was attacking Obama, and "Arab" was one of the slurs. McCain was defending him against all of those comments.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
May 16, 2014
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fair points. (small disclaimer: im not American so I mostly know McCain from when he ran for president; I get where the "McCain has no spine" jokes are coming from but I'm sure I didnt get all the twists and turns of his recent political manouvers)

Read up on the Keating Five scandal to start.

McCain did the right thing last night. Many times in his life he has not. I'll credit him where due, but let's not rewrite history.
 
Apr 3, 2009
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McCain reminds me a lot of George W Bush, except way more articulate.

A man with some terrible policies and who is way to eager to instigate a war, but also a man who tries to be professional and occasionally shows flashes that they have a soul.
 

Matt

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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McCain reminds me a lot of George W Bush, except way more articulate.

A man with some terrible policies and who is way to eager to instigate a war, but also a man who tries to be professional in a party that has gone off he rails, and occasionally shows flashes that they have a soul.
McCain is smarter, more hardworking, and less religious than than Bush, but otherwise that kinda works.
 
Oct 4, 2012
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I was just thinking what I'd say to this piece of shit if I saw him in public, since I'm right next to the city. Probably how he's a piece of shit; how he'll be remembered in history as being the poster boy for the old, crusty, right-wing asshole politician that fucked over Americans and convinced others to vote against their own interests, and did it shamelessly because he's an awful human being.

On a related note I only today saw the video of McCain giving the thumbs down.

Fucking classic.
 

Not

Banned
Jun 7, 2012
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I was just thinking what I'd say to this piece of shit if I saw him in public, since I'm right next to the city. Probably how he's a piece of shit; how he'll be remembered in history as being the poster boy for the old, crusty, right-wing asshole politician that fucked over Americans and convinced others to vote against their own interests, and did it shamelessly because he's an awful human being.

I think he's the guy who noticed that Obama was black and singlehandedly turned the GOP into the "party of no" because of it, which brought about hyperdivision and the alternative facts/fake news era.

He's one of the most destructive American politicians to ever live.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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Glad to see some people with political courage, despite whatever their reasons might or might not be going for out on a limb.

Of course now, my guess is that some of the 'moderate' GOP will try to gain Dem votes by going for peacemeal 'reform', to try and pull a fast one without the pressure of a huge bill like this taking up national spotlight.

I would not put it past that being much easier for the insurance lobby to turn politicans on
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
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I just want to say, as a hardcore liberal who always held out hope that guys like McCain existed to actually be a 'check and balance' on the system, that this particular moment I am proud of McCain for being a badass and saying 'no'. I dont know what that means going forward or if he flips and goes back to his old ways but i'll take what i can get and really hope he has seen the light. I acknowledge he has majority voted with Trump etc but the way he just stood out there and did the thumbs down 'fuck you' was something else. So yeah, i don't want to eat the bullet quite yet on hope.
 

commedieu

Banned
Jan 10, 2009
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I just want to say, as a hardcore liberal who always held out hope that guys like McCain existed to actually be a 'check and balance' on the system, that this particular moment I am proud of McCain for being a badass and saying 'no'. I dont know what that means going forward or if he flips and goes back to his old ways but i'll take what i can get and really hope he has seen the light. I acknowledge he has majority voted with Trump etc but the way he just stood out there and did the thumbs down 'fuck you' was something else. So yeah, i don't want to eat the bullet quite yet on hope.

I was wishing him dead. As I figured even on deaths bed, he'd continue to be less than useless. Hopefully it was that, which changed his perspective to have some sort of positive legacy, and not just a way to save Republican seats.

But it's McCain. So, I expect to see him ruin this temporary good will by continuing to be a shit sock.

I'm happy to be wrong about this instance, but the credits aren't rolling yet. What follows this single deed, is what he will be judged on.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
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I was wishing him dead. As I figured even on deaths bed, he'd continue to be less than useless. Hopefully it was that, which changed his perspective to have some sort of positive legacy, and not just a way to save Republican seats.

But it's McCain. So, I expect to see him ruin this temporary good will by continuing to be a shit sock.

I'm happy to be wrong about this instance, but the credits aren't rolling yet. What follows this single deed, is what he will be judged on.

i mean i agree. If something batshit comes out and a vote is held to impeach Trump and he is 'No', it kind of negates everything. But i recognize the pressure and weird bubble that exists in politics right now and McCain really did come through for the liberal end. Plus i just want to believe in that badass moment, cause he played it well.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
No need to confirm it, that was almost certainly his intended play.

Except it's completely wrong! That's not how the rules work. I don't know how many times we need to debunk this.

Healthcare is dead either way. They have no will or ideas left. But this McCain chess move is just not true.
 
Nov 18, 2014
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So are there any limits on passing such a huge bill via reconciliation?

The fiscal year of the US begins and ends on October 1. Any "budget items", aka reconciliation bills, must be passed by then or they won't take effect until the next fiscal year.
 

pigeon

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Feb 14, 2011
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So are there any limits on passing such a huge bill via reconciliation?

Successful reconciliation bills are extremely limited.

Failed bills are almost never limited, because you can almost always just send the bill back to the committee or the calendar or whatever.
 

KingV

Member
Jul 30, 2004
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If you read through the responses people are saying thats wrong since it was an amendment and its already back on the calendar.

I actually think that the real restriction is they can only PASS one reconciliation bill per topic, not consider.

So they could just bring skinny repeal right back up and try to pass it again, but it's doubtful McCain would vote for the MTP again.

I think that there is a deadline that ends when they start the budget process for next year though.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So are there any limits on passing such a huge bill via reconciliation?

Oh, tons. They do have to start in the house, they do have a limit of one per budget, and they can't vote on it after they pass the topline budget and reconciliation guidelines for the next year. Not to mention the major requirement that everything has to be directly related to the budget and it can't increase the deficit past 10 years.

But the bill they voted was on an amendment same as the vote for full repeal. It does not kill the bill from being amended in some different way and passed the next day if they wanted to. His vote to proceed on debate did absolutely nothing to hurt Republicans.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Jun 7, 2004
21,120
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maybe posted already, but I liked Robert Reich's take on McCain.

Good piece. I recall that town hall when McCain was defending Obama from the shit being thrown at him during the election.

8 years later the Republican town halls were leading chants calling for their opponents to be thrown in jail, to vilify the news media for reporting facts, and making deals with the most heinous foreign leaders on the planet to practically cheat victory through misinformation tactics

All this technology at our fingertips and instead unifying the globe and spreading knowledge it's Pushed us further apart.
 

epmode

Member
Jun 7, 2004
28,470
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Thanks for the details on reconciliation. I wonder how long they'll wait before trying again. Feels like a shitty bill will eventually be passed. Here's hoping they can't get their shit together before midterms.
 

DeviantBoi

Member
May 5, 2005
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Honduras
maybe posted already, but I liked Robert Reich's take on McCain.
That moment that was described in your quote came after the Secret Service had asked the McCain campaign to tone down their rhetoric because of an increase in death threats against Obama.

McCain may have corrected that woman that time, but he hadn't in his previous rallies when they chanted those same things. And Palin, of course, never stopped.
 

SanguineShark

Member
Jun 7, 2007
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I'm tired of worrying about what terrible idea they're going to come up with next, to get rid of our healthcare.

So, this isn't dead yet? What do you think are the chances of them bringing it back up? I really hope they move on to something else.
 

DontBeThatGuy

Member
Oct 15, 2014
16,472
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I'm tired of worrying about what terrible idea they're going to come up with next, to get rid of our healthcare.

So, this isn't dead yet? What do you think are the chances of them bringing it back up? I really hope they move on to something else.

Listen, man, always expect some fuckery. (but maybe not for a few months, on healthcare at least...)
 

hodayathink

Member
Mar 13, 2013
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Thanks for the details on reconciliation. I wonder how long they'll wait before trying again. Feels like a shitty bill will eventually be passed. Here's hoping they can't get their shit together before midterms.

They don't have to votes now, and unless McCain rapidly deteriorates and has to resign in the next 2 months, they won't have the votes before October 1, which seems to be the actual deadline. Collins isn't flipping, and Murkowosky doesn't really have to cowtow to the party since she got elected without them. Like, they can keep trying, but we still have the problem of passing something just in the Senate being really, really unlikely, and the problem that anything that passes the Senate probably won't pass the House (which is why Ryan declared Martial Law to try to rubber stamp it instead of talking it out).
 

Seth Enosh

Member
Apr 23, 2013
2,065
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eastern usa
That moment that was described in your quote came after the Secret Service had asked the McCain campaign to tone down their rhetoric because of an increase in death threats against Obama.

McCain may have corrected that woman that time, but he hadn't in his previous rallies when they chanted those same things. And Palin, of course, never stopped.

Do you have a reputable source backing up the claims you're making that the Secret Service asked McCain to change rhetoric? Googling doesn't back it up unless you consider sites like AlterNet credible sources, and I don't remember your claims appearing in the news in 2008.
 

Matt

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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That moment that was described in your quote came after the Secret Service had asked the McCain campaign to tone down their rhetoric because of an increase in death threats against Obama.

McCain may have corrected that woman that time, but he hadn't in his previous rallies when they chanted those same things. And Palin, of course, never stopped.
That's not true.
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,948
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Thanks for the details on reconciliation. I wonder how long they'll wait before trying again. Feels like a shitty bill will eventually be passed. Here's hoping they can't get their shit together before midterms.

The margins for getting it done will just get narrower and narrower. McCain will be getting treatment and be absent from Congress, and McConnell has shown no willingness to craft a bill that will include Collins and Murkowski (whose name is misspelled in the title BTW).
 

gcubed

Member
Mar 7, 2007
25,836
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Foster City, CA
The margins for getting it done will just get narrower and narrower. McCain will be getting treatment and be absent from Congress, and McConnell has shown no willingness to craft a bill that will include Collins and Murkowski (whose name is misspelled in the title BTW).

I think it should be pretty clear that McCain won't vote for a bill crafted by 15 republicans and never shown to others.

So... I'm not sure where they go since they have no viable way of getting to 50. Murkowski is probably cemented as a no now after the shit Trump tried to pull on her
 

Basileus777

Member
Aug 6, 2008
33,948
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I think it should be pretty clear that McCain won't vote for a bill crafted by 15 republicans and never shown to others.

So... I'm not sure where they go since they have no viable way of getting to 50. Murkowski is probably cemented as a no now after the shit Trump tried to pull on her

The route would be one that McConnell would never take, to craft a bill that Collins and Murkowski would support and try to peal over vulnerable 2018 deep red state Dems to replace any losses from the hard right that would refuse to vote for it. Though even this method is probably closed due to how he has handled it so far.