Pretty much. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Senate to begin bipartisan health care push
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
Pretty much. I'll believe it when I see it.
Pelosi has repeatedly taken them to the cleaners in negotiations for Continuing Resolutions because the Tea Party types won't play ball w/ them.Sure. But I get this "fuck off" attitude when you consider that the Republicans aren't going to negotiate in good faith either.
There should be zero concessions to the right, the Dems have all the leverage.
Obama got burned in '09 acting in good faith and the party hasn't treated them the same since.
Fenderputty
Banned
Sure. But I get this "fuck off" attitude when you consider that the Republicans aren't going to negotiate in good faith either.
There should be zero concessions to the right, the Dems have all the leverage.
Hypothetically speaking, the GOP and Dems magically put together a public option. Would that fall under the "fuck off" category?
Pelosi has repeatedly taken them to the cleaners in negotiations for Continuing Resolutions because the Tea Party types won't play ball w/ them.
Obama got burned in '09 acting in good faith and the party hasn't treated them the same since.
Pelosi is great at her job. People that want to get rid of her are nuts.
She can herd those fucking cats.
Hypothetically speaking, the GOP and Dems magically put together a public option. Would that fall under the "fuck off" category?
No of course not, I agreed with your post that I quoted generally. Just saying that I get people who are wary of cooperation.
Most of the DNC would rather repeal the ACA than have a first world health care system.
What a stupid post. I bet you're one of these "moderates = the devil" posters too.
Fenderputty
Banned
No of course not, I agreed with your post that I quoted generally. Just saying that I get people who are wary of cooperation.
Right, I'm just weary that mentality is taken too far sometimes.
skullmuffins
Banned
Isn't this only because they were counting on using all that money they slashed from the heath care system to fund their tax cuts? If they just use this push to get some market stabilization shit done, like funding the CSRs (so Trump can't keep threatening to blow up the market, which is a large part of what's driving up premiums), I don't think it would help their tax reform agenda very much.Unfortunately helping republicans to pass a health care overhaul opens a path for them to really fuck the country. They need a healthcare solution before they can can get to work on revamping the tax code. And you know what that is going to look like.
Beyond this never happening while Republicans are in control of all branches of government.... do you know of a good proposal for how to handle the transition to single payer from our current system? This is a serious question. I like single payer, but I don't know how we get there from here, and it's not like single payer is the only way to do universal health care.Single-payer or fuck off.
Hypothetically speaking, the GOP and Dems magically put together a public option. Would that fall under the "fuck off" category?
GOP? Public option?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Public option would be one step from single payer system, whats the difference?
Lets not be naive about what exactly this is about here if they are going to do this shit when they get back. They got a lot of shit for not being able to repeal ACA. They have tried desperately to scapegoat the Dems on this and this is just one last hail mary attempt to do so, there are no altruistic intentions here. They are snakes trying to sink their fangs in. If Dems refuse "See they are being obstructionist and keeping us from doing our jobs!" And if they go along with this charade and it falls to shit like will happen since GOP will NOT compromise on their shitty health care tax breaks for the rich proposals guess who they will shift the blame to? They have the majority, they do not need the Dem's to pass anything, this is all smoke and mirrors.
whyamihere
Banned
I think the most that will come out of this is shoring up some of the individual marketplace issues -- maybe. It'll probably pass the Senate and be dead in the House.
KojiKnight
Member
GOP: End the subsidies!
Dems: Uh, that's how all of this works.
GOP: Okay, don't end all the subsidies!
Fox Headline: HISTORIC BI-PARTISAN EFFORT TO FIX HEALTHCARE PASSES SENATE
ftfy
El_Tiguere
Member
Silly Democrats... if they stop pandering to the pharmaceuticals and health insurers that bankroll their elections, perhaps we might get somewhere on health care reform.
Here is a wild idea: push for a single-payer policy that is now supported by a majority of Democrats, in a country where the majority supports universal health-care for all.
I expect more sabotage from the Rockefeller Imperial Democrats on this, because it hurts their money handlers.
Here is a wild idea: push for a single-payer policy that is now supported by a majority of Democrats, in a country where the majority supports universal health-care for all.
I expect more sabotage from the Rockefeller Imperial Democrats on this, because it hurts their money handlers.
UHC, single payer, socialized medicine, etc..... all of these are meaningless words since every country that actually has guaranteed healthcare for all its citizens implement it in a way that doesn't perfectly fit any of those definitions. The goal is to get everyone access to healthcare, the details are figuring out how to pay for it. Obamacare was one way of doing that, and it would have worked perfectly had the SCOTUS/GOP governors/Marco Rubio not sabotaged it.
IamDodongo
Member
I dont expect this is in good faith. I expect fuckery.
That's a safe assumption
The concept is fine- the big reason why it's always been Medicare and not Medicaid as the push is that Medicare rates pay out much better to providers. (aka there are way more doctors accepting Medicare patients relative to ones accepting Medicaid.)
So care providers prefer Medicare because it actually compensates them at favorable rates. Gotcha.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Single Payer or obstruct.
The GOP showed us that there are no downsides to obstruction so fuck them.
The GOP showed us that there are no downsides to obstruction so fuck them.
Dems should really just push for UHC. Stop beating around the bush.
That's what the dems want, but that's simply not possible in the current Congress. If they can get a bill that stabilizes and improves Obamacare as it stands, without giving anything up, they should damn well take it. That's where the compromise is. Once they have the presidency and Congress we can talk about a public option or otherwise.
We're talking about people's lives here, if something that could be a simple stopgap comes up it'd be malpractice and downright evil to not take it.
GOP: End the subsidies!
Dems: Uh, that's how all of this works.
GOP: Okay, don't end the subsidies!
Fox Headline: HISTORIC BI-PARTISAN EFFORT TO FIX HEALTHCARE PASSES SENATE
This isn't where the Dems have a line drawn.
Dems should really just push for UHC. Stop beating around the bush.
They couldn't get that when they had a 60 seat Supermajority in Congress and Obama... how are they going to get this when they don't have control of Congress, have their biggest defecit in the House of Reps since the great depression, and have Trump who would Veto it the instant it hit his desk?
How far are Dems willing to compromise?
From the sound of things, all they'd take that the reps would possibly put up is an improvement of Obamacare without touching planned parenthood. Basically, the compromise, if it'll ever exist, will probably be a kinda weak stabilization of the individual markets that would be better than nothing and allow things to limp along.
Collins and Murkowski would also accept nothing that lower the subsidies and/or medicaid.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Republicans obstructed and did everything they could to not work together for the last seven years. They can not be trusted. Do not work with these devils democrats. Wait to get a majority and push through Medicare for all.
Fenderputty
Banned
GOP? Public option?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Public option would be one step from single payer system, whats the difference?
Lets not be naive about what exactly this is about here if they are going to do this shit when they get back. They got a lot of shit for not being able to repeal ACA. They have tried desperately to scapegoat the Dems on this and this is just one last hail mary attempt to do so, there are no altruistic intentions here. They are snakes trying to sink their fangs in. If Dems refuse "See they are being obstructionist and keeping us from doing our jobs!" And if they go along with this charade and it falls to shit like will happen since GOP will NOT compromise on their shitty health care tax breaks for the rich proposals guess who they will shift the blame to? They have the majority, they do not need the Dem's to pass anything, this is all smoke and mirrors.
I think this can be understood while the general idea that a possible bipartisan bill should be based on it's merits and not whether it's single payer or bust.
FYI ... the GOP had a public option in a version of the ACA and the blue dog Dems stripped it out.
I think the most that will come out of this is shoring up some of the individual marketplace issues -- maybe. It'll probably pass the Senate and be dead in the House.
This is kinda what I was thinking. Maybe a repeal of the medical device take as a concession. If that's possible we should take it too.
I question how any of this makes it past the house.
Tons of R's are already seen as feckless for not actually moving on healthcare reform, a compromise with dems where the discussion favors concessions for the democrats seems like a questionable solution to bring back to their voters. idk.
Tons of R's are already seen as feckless for not actually moving on healthcare reform, a compromise with dems where the discussion favors concessions for the democrats seems like a questionable solution to bring back to their voters. idk.
eBay Huckster
Member
Most of the DNC would rather repeal the ACA than have a first world health care system.
Which is why most of the House Democrats voted for a public option (i.e., backdoor singlepayer) in 2010.
(Oh wait you're one of those people still referring to the entire party with the name of its presidential-election arm, why am I expecting you to know these things)
Fenderputty
Banned
I question how any of this makes it past the house.
Tons of R's are already seen as feckless for not actually moving on healthcare reform, a compromise with dems where the discussion favors concessions for the democrats seems like a questionable solution to bring back to their voters. idk.
None of it would make it past Ryan's desk. Anything dems would put their names to will not have the majority of republican support in the house.
Single Payer or obstruct.
The GOP showed us that there are no downsides to obstruction so fuck them.
Obstruct means the ACA underperforms thanks to changes the republicans can make and already have made. It's not really a viable option.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Aren't a few Rs trying to push some shitty repeal bill? Graham and Cassidy and Heller?
I still expect some fuckery.
I don't think they can use reconciliation (it would need to start in the House), so it doesn't really matter if some garbage bill gets GOP support.
Dems should really just push for UHC. Stop beating around the bush.
Yup its the only thing that would actually fix the problems.
I don't think they can use reconciliation (it would need to start in the House), so it doesn't really matter if some garbage bill gets GOP support.
They can. They just don't have 50 votes.
This won't be a good faith discussion. It will end with none of the democrat ideas being chosen and a similar bill to what they just tried to push only this time I have a feeling it will pass because the Republican senate will feel free to claim it was all the democrats fault when the bill ultimately kicks people off healthcare. It will be framed as though all the bad stuff happening is the result of democrat ideas. I even imagine they will use the failure as brownie points in the midterms.
Fenderputty
Banned
They can. They just don't have 50 votes.
It's more of a timing issue at this point.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
UHC or single-payer is not going to happen under a bipartisan resolution, GOP were trying to remove healthcare and deal with the replace part later just some weeks ago.
I want the insanity surrounding American Healthcare to end too, but I'm not going to pretend that Up is Down when we still have an RRR government.
I want the insanity surrounding American Healthcare to end too, but I'm not going to pretend that Up is Down when we still have an RRR government.
It's more of a timing issue at this point.
This is absolutely true.
As Andy Slavitt put it:
https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/899815077318152193
ACA repeal less about health policy, now about $.
Competes with clock & busy agenda. But he money on the table makes it far from over.
I think this can be understood while the general idea that a possible bipartisan bill should be based on it's merits and not whether it's single payer or bust.
FYI ... the GOP had a public option in a version of the ACA and the blue dog Dems stripped it out.
A large part of basing any proposal on its merits is if you truly believe the shape of the US Insurance industry is in any way sustainable or workable as a for profit, privatized model. If your pillars are shit, dressing them up with decorations is pointless as its still going to crumble. The only way to even consider keeping such a beast in check is through massive regulation and oversight. Which, when a parties whole motto is "De-regulate and less government", I just don't know what exactly you would be expecting. Especially when you have seen for your own eyes exactly what they propose. Definition of insanity is etc etc.
That ACA and what the GOP was doing during that was complete bullshit. They were completely fucking with the dems during that whole thing trying their damndest to poison the well, which they did. If they really believed in a public option why haven't we seen one in any of their proposals over the last few months?
People are free to believe what they want, just like you are free to believe the GOP are going to come to a table after 9 years of obstruction to Dems with actual good intentions when they hold the majority and walk out with a proposal that includes a public option. People can also believe Dems should stop compromising with a party who always tries to sabotage them and never gives on anything. I would say a persons stance depends on how much goodwill they have left in their heart.
VendettaRed07
Member
I really can't believe some of the replies in here.
People's lives are on the line. If we can come to a bipartisan agreement, that doesn't have any massive "kill PP, destroy X industry, etc" strings attached, to stabilize the insurance markets, you have to go for it
I really don't care how the GOP behave. I expect our elected officials to do the moral and ethical things rather than what is best for a political win or what makes your opponents look worse, regardless of who it hurts in the process
If we want single payer, or UHC, campaign on it in 2018 and 2020. For now, you need to accept we lost the election and that is off the table, I'm not down for advocating voting against a potential life saving bill that will help make sure people stay on their health insurance over the next few years. Hate Trump and the GOP all you want but we need to actually govern and make it through the next few years best we can.
People's lives are on the line. If we can come to a bipartisan agreement, that doesn't have any massive "kill PP, destroy X industry, etc" strings attached, to stabilize the insurance markets, you have to go for it
I really don't care how the GOP behave. I expect our elected officials to do the moral and ethical things rather than what is best for a political win or what makes your opponents look worse, regardless of who it hurts in the process
If we want single payer, or UHC, campaign on it in 2018 and 2020. For now, you need to accept we lost the election and that is off the table, I'm not down for advocating voting against a potential life saving bill that will help make sure people stay on their health insurance over the next few years. Hate Trump and the GOP all you want but we need to actually govern and make it through the next few years best we can.
The Dems should obstruct the fuck out them. They have nothing to lose. It worked for Republicans. Republicans have most power and society will see how these people promised to fix everything and failed. Dems need to start playing the game. Anything done will just look like a win for Trump. Let that orange fuck flounder and tie the GOP to him.
El_Tiguere
Member
If we want single payer, or UHC, campaign on it in 2018 and 2020. For now, you need to accept we lost the election and that is off the table, I'm not down for advocating voting against a potential life saving bill that will help make sure people stay on their health insurance over the next few years. Hate Trump and the GOP all you want but we need to actually govern and make it through the next few years best we can.
For Democrats running and up for re-election in 2018, their stance on the issue will be defined NOW, when the debate revs up again.
Many people here are misguided in thinking that Dems should soft-ball it and stand for UHC after they regain power. This is backwards.
With ~60% of the country now wanting UHC, Dems need to make a grand stand on where they want the country to go, which will be the very thing inspiring people to vote for them in 2018. If Dems sugar-coat their way because they don't want to hurt the profits of their donors, then they will be seen again as the DNC/Hillary pro-corporate disaster they have become.
Guys, most Democrats won't actively push for a single-payer system at this point in time because they believe the majority of Americans aren't fine with that idea.
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/10/542663685/democrats-fear-medicare-for-all-plan-could-sharpen-party-divisions
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/10/542663685/democrats-fear-medicare-for-all-plan-could-sharpen-party-divisions
NANCY PELOSI: The comfort level with a broader base of the American people is not there yet. Doesn't mean it couldn't be. States are a good place to start.
El_Tiguere
Member
Guys, most Democrats won't actively push for a single-payer system at this point in time because they believe the majority of Americans aren't fine with that idea.
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/10/542663685/democrats-fear-medicare-for-all-plan-could-sharpen-party-divisions
Translation: the medical industrial complex is not ready to let go of their for-profit racket.
NullPointer
Member
There is a real opportunity here for both sides to gain something, and to show that the system can actually function at times. Now more than ever we could all use some of that.I dont expect this is in good faith. I expect fuckery.
Am holding out to some hope here, though it may be naive. Republicans that want to accomplish something (moderates) know that Obamacare is the way of things now, and they can at least deliver some improvements to their constituents.
Translation: the medical industrial complex is not ready to let go of their for-profit racket.
No, they think that the public is not ready for a single-payer system. Reminder: the views on NeoGAF aren't necessarily held by a large chunk of America. They hear the words "government-run" and they flee in the opposite direction, even if a single-payer system would work in their favor.
eBay Huckster
Member
No, they think that the public is not ready for a single-payer system. Reminder: the views on NeoGAF aren't necessarily held by a large chunk of America. They hear the words "government-run" and they flee in the opposite direction, even if a single-payer system would work in their favor.
another reminder: you're responding to a banker who likes to troll by bringing up Nina Turner as the Left's Next Great Hope
El_Tiguere
Member
No, they think that the public is not ready for a single-payer system. Reminder: the views on NeoGAF aren't necessarily held by a large chunk of America. They hear the words "government-run" and they flee in the opposite direction, even if a single-payer system would work in their favor.
Has she asked the public or has she huddled with the other Imperial Democrats who stand against common sense progress here? if she did she would find out that the majority of Democrats already support single-payer.
eBay Huckster said:another reminder: you're responding to a banker who likes to troll by bringing up Nina Turner as the Left's Next Great Hope
Bernie passed her the baton through Our Revolution, so yes, she is. Stronger champion for single-payer than whatever Manchurian Candidate the DNC throws up after donor huddles in the Hamptons (*cough*Kamala*cough*).
Raylan Targaryen
Member
I really think it would be wise for democrats to be unsupportive of anything republicans want. They own this. They tried to screw over America with worse health care. Let them deal with the consequences.
Any legislation passed will be claimed by Trump and the GOP as a victory and they'll take credit for any positive things happening.
Republicans wouldn't face consequences anyway. They've mastered the art of misinforming a population so, at the end of the day, Americans suffer while they continue to be voted in.
I don't care who gets to claim this win, if we can get good healthcare then we take it.
adamsappel
Member
They couldn't get anywhere close to UHC with control of the white house and both chambers of congress, what makes you think they could do it now that they have none of those things?
It isn't that they can get close, but it's frustrating when Democrats propose the reasonable solution, and then have to compromise from there, rather than proposing something visionary and negotiating down to the reasonable.