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Event Senate trial prologue

Should the Senate call more witnesses, especially ones Trump has blocked?

  • No, I am already convinced Trump did nothing wrong

  • No, I have minor issues with his actions, but let's all move on

  • Yes, I am undecided and would like to know more

  • Yes, I am mostly convinced he's guilty but would like a complete picture


Results are only viewable after voting.

Hotspurr

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Jan 27, 2018
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What are you hoping happen in the senate trial?
If there are additional witnesses you think are valuable, beyond those that Trump blocked, who are they and why do you want them to testify?
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
8,364
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I hope Sanders and Warren get stuck behind a desk and miss out on more debates and take a dive in the polls. Then they can be stuck between a rock and a hard place on wether to blame the DNC for screwing them over with this impeachment garbage or if ORANGE MAN BAD is worth more than running for president.
 
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JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
7,811
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I voted option 2. It’s tiring and uninteresting. Regular people don’t care about Ukrainian aide. I don’t feel there’s anywhere near enough here to make an impeachable offense. All these people are partisan. There’s an election soon where the people can decide.
 
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Aug 29, 2018
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Let's see what happens with the fallout of the past few days considering Warren and Sanders. If they just cancelled each other out let's go with the most disgusting circus we can imagine, with the whole Hunter Biden crew being dragged onto the stand under the threat of perjury. Give the Dems the exact same they gave in the House, Jack Shit.


Otherwise wrap it up quick so either the Snake or the Commie can make the primary bloody.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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Warren and Sanders must both participate in this circus, and so both of them will be judged by their behavior here when it comes to the primaries and the election. Trump has sucked everyone into playing the anti-Trump game instead of standing up for their own platform, and he has them fighting one another for the slot of going up against him.

If 2016 is any indication, Trump wins when he gets people to play the anti-Trump game. Why would 2020 be any different? Out of all the (remaining) candidates, Warren and Sanders have focused the least on impeachment without outright decrying it like Gabbard and Yang did. But now they will have to grandstand and play their role in the party artifice, likely losing popularity in the primaries as a result.
 

Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
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This has already wasted too much money and time that could have been better spent elsewhere, like working towards bipartisan legislation to address major issues. If Republicans are able to get Adam Schiff, his staff and the whistleblowers, among others, to testify as well as Bolton and whoever else the Democrats want then I'm all for it. Even the playing field and correct the wrongs we saw in the House, otherwise this has already run its course.

I'd advise anyone expecting another circus-like affair to temper expectations, though. The Senate trial will be very different from the process we witnessed in the House.

I'm also curious, are Democrats okay with this Senate process handicapping Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar and potentially Joe Biden's 2020 campaigns (assuming Hunter gets dragged in)? There's a mountain of irony here considering this impeachment all started with Pelosi calling the Ukrainian phone call election interference.
 

Joe T.

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Oct 3, 2004
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This thread probably serves as good a place as any given the basis for impeachment, but independent investigative journalism by French website Les-Crises.fr and Consortium News put together a 50 minute video (in English) tracking Joe Biden's involvement and giving a more thorough history of how things played out in Ukraine. I'm only about 20 minutes into it and it's been very compelling so far with video evidence and details filling in some of the blanks. Lays out the timeline, highlights Biden's lies, goes into some background detail about Shokin and Lutsenko, etc:

 

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
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As long as they also call Hunter Biden and the leader of Burisma, go ahead and call all the witnesses you want.
 

A Regular Guy

Member
Feb 23, 2018
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This thread probably serves as good a place as any given the basis for impeachment, but independent investigative journalism by French website Les-Crises.fr and Consortium News put together a 50 minute video (in English) tracking Joe Biden's involvement and giving a more thorough history of how things played out in Ukraine. I'm only about 20 minutes into it and it's been very compelling so far with video evidence and details filling in some of the blanks. Lays out the timeline, highlights Biden's lies, goes into some background detail about Shokin and Lutsenko, etc:

Creepy Joe, looks like he's gunna get some tongue action
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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Airola

Member
Jun 25, 2015
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This thread probably serves as good a place as any given the basis for impeachment, but independent investigative journalism by French website Les-Crises.fr and Consortium News put together a 50 minute video (in English) tracking Joe Biden's involvement and giving a more thorough history of how things played out in Ukraine. I'm only about 20 minutes into it and it's been very compelling so far with video evidence and details filling in some of the blanks. Lays out the timeline, highlights Biden's lies, goes into some background detail about Shokin and Lutsenko, etc:

Wow, this was fantastic!
I think this is big enough to warrant its own thread.

This absolutely solidifies my views on that Trump had every right to ask Ukraine to look at what's been done there regarding to Biden and his son. In fact this video makes me think it was more of a duty than a right to ask it. People who were against Trump and defending Biden on this issue constantly tried to make Shokin look bad and downplayed Biden's quid pro quo, but after watching this video I have no doubt Shokin was removed unfairly and wrong reasons and doing that directly resulted in Ukraine falling back to being corrupt as hell. I think this video shows it's clear how under Shokin there was a sign of hope but when he got removed things went back to usual corruption.

Can't wait to the next video where they look at how this has been (mis)treated in media.
 
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Hotspurr

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This thread probably serves as good a place as any given the basis for impeachment, but independent investigative journalism by French website Les-Crises.fr and Consortium News put together a 50 minute video (in English) tracking Joe Biden's involvement and giving a more thorough history of how things played out in Ukraine. I'm only about 20 minutes into it and it's been very compelling so far with video evidence and details filling in some of the blanks. Lays out the timeline, highlights Biden's lies, goes into some background detail about Shokin and Lutsenko, etc:

The entire Western international community saw Shokin as corrupt, but yeah, let's find obscure french documentary and believe it instead. I wonder if there are pizza related documentaries people are still sweating over ...
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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The entire Western international community saw Shokin as corrupt, but yeah, let's find obscure french documentary and believe it instead. I wonder if there are pizza related documentaries people are still sweating over ...
You never let an opportunity go by to attack the messenger instead of the message by resorting to logical fallacies, yet you feign concern that you aren't taken seriously. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Hotspurr

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You never let an opportunity go by to attack the messenger instead of the message by resorting to logical fallacies, yet you feign concern that you aren't taken seriously. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Careful, remember the John Solomon piece you were parroting? Remember how I thoroughly debunked it, showing obvious wrong dates and false information? You don't stay embarrassed for long I guess, I'll give you points for self esteem. I might do it with this "documentary" next to see the salt flow.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
18,474
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Careful, remember the John Solomon piece you were parroting? Remember how I thoroughly debunked it, showing obvious wrong dates and false information? You don't stay embarrassed for long I guess, I'll give you points for self esteem. I might do it with this "documentary" next to see the salt flow.
This is your thread and your poll, ostensibly inviting GAFers to share their viewpoints and contribute to the conversation.

And yet when someone shares something that goes against your narrative, you appeal to the bandwagon fallacy followed by an ab absurdo fallacy in an attempt to shut the information down. 🤷‍♀️

And now, predictably, you go after me with contrived gotchas that have no basis in reality. Maybe sometime try talking to your mirrors instead of getting angry that they don't reflect you, narcissist. Ah, at least you got nearly a page of attention before your mask began slipping.
 

Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
Jan 2, 2007
14,669
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5. No, It doesn't matter how many witnesses are called because it doesn't matter if Trump is guilty of anything.

The senate is going to acquit him regardless of how many witnesses you call, regardless of whether or not they think he broke some laws/rules. It's going to be a mirror of how it went in the house.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Mar 14, 2018
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5. No, It doesn't matter how many witnesses are called because it doesn't matter if Trump is guilty of anything.

The senate is going to acquit him regardless of how many witnesses you call.
They hope if they keep fishing they'll find something while forgetting to realize this thing is over before it begins.
 

Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
Jan 2, 2007
14,669
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They hope if they keep fishing they'll find something while forgetting to realize this thing is over before it begins.
That's the longshot. The more reasonable gamble is that this will cost Trump in the election more than it costs them. It doesn't appear to be working out that way, though.

Instead of worrying about the legality of the situation Trump's followers see Biden selling white house favors in return for putting his son into "jobs" he's ridiculously unqualified for. Unless the dems were trying to sink Biden along with Trump they fucked up on that one.

Meanwhile the people who don't like Trump see the dems wasting 4 years accomplishing nothing with their dogged pursuit of partisan politics. They're not positioning themselves as a rational alternative.

Meanwhile part 2 the economy appears to be thriving under Trump's leadership. There's plenty who will overlook every one of Trump's negative personality traits as long as the economy stays strong.

They even dropped the ball on the Iran issue. This debate was a perfect opportunity to present a real strategy that differs both with what Trump has done and what has failed in the past. Did they have one? Nope. You can't pitch them over the plate any slower than that one.
 
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accel

Formerly 'blackcrane'
Sep 11, 2015
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Like some others above I also am missing an option of "I am convinced that Trump did nothing wrong and BECAUSE OF THAT I want a public trial with folks like Schiff being dragged through the mud".
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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Should've had an option for "Yes, I think he is probably innocent and that putting it all out there will help exonerate him."
I prefer the option of "Yes, I don't care if Trump utilized a normal negotiation tactic of quid pro quo and want to see the truth of what Biden and others were doing burn the Democrats."
 
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Ornlu

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Oct 31, 2018
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The same can be said for the Republicans and Fox News to be honest.
True enough, there's prima donnas throughout our current political theater. I'd say Schiff in particular is the most egregious in living memory. The dude has been wearing a mic 24/7 for years.
 

Sign

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Hotspurr

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Aid was released beofore cut off date.
Sure, let's now disagree with the supreme auditing and accountability bipartisan office of the US. It's all a conspiracy anyway, amirite? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I look forward to all the "GAO bad" posts and salt.
 
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Joe T.

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The entire Western international community saw Shokin as corrupt, but yeah, let's find obscure french documentary and believe it instead. I wonder if there are pizza related documentaries people are still sweating over ...
I think you'll have a difficult time holding onto that point of view when you watch the qualifications, results in office and crimes committed by Shokin and Lutsenko laid out in that video. Putting Lutsenko into that position was itself an act of corruption as I see it, the Anti-Corruption Bureau you've cited yourself in the past does not speak kindly of him.

You have to open yourself up to the possibility that a country mired in corruption allowed powerful politicians from other countries to protect themselves and further their own interests under that guise of righting wrongdoing.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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Sure, let's now disagree with the supreme auditing and accountability bipartisan office of the US. It's all a conspiracy anyway, amirite? :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I look forward to all the "GAO bad" posts and salt.
Going 1 mph above the speed limit is also illegal. You aren't going to be given the death penalty for doing so.