Support NeoGAF

[cireza]

I mean I'm thinking about getting one just coz it's considerably cheaper and I don't have or want a 4K TV any time soon, and most of my previous-gens XBox library is digital so no loss there on the disc drive.

I identify as an "enthusiast", and I am in the exact same situation as you. My Xbox games library is 100% digital and I game on a 1080p TV. There is a great choice here with the Series S for me.

 

[vpance]

And the public agrees with Jim, according to all recent polls. No one wants to buy a tard pack. People in general are stupid but consumers at large can still sniff out a bad deal.

 

[lock2k]

The comparison with the Wii is ridiculous. The Wii was a console that didn't have a higher power counterpart made by Nintendo and it was also a behemoth in terms of sales.

 

[Shmunter]

haha, the good old "We have a low price option!"(good luck getting one)
Anecdotically, I recall when Microsoft released Xbox One in Argentina. It posted some ads with a very low price. Buuut, buuut. Theres was a quite small fine print at the bottom: "At that price until total promotion units (45) are sold".

Judging by the popularity of Xss, and the Sad prior, it is likely a consumer demand or lack thereoff for digital stock level. Certainly, all current poles reflect that.

Or people just want the best tier.

 

[Neofire]

DIdn't the PS4 outsell the PS4 Pro when both were available?

The ps4 and ps4 pro weren't released at the same time? I must have missed that.

 

[makaveli60]

Fuck this guy. We need the original PS4 management back. He destroys everything they built.

 

[nikolino840]

His words


The point of referencing the Wii, Playstation 2, Playstation 1 and Switch was that he is objectively wrong. Weaker consoles have been successful

There's also a thread

How much does raw power dictate the success of a console?

Since the dystopian console war where random people fight on behalf of corporations is in full swing I was wondering when performance has ever mattered. Of course its important for the medium to reach new technological milestones, since gaming is much more dependent on such advancements...

www.neogaf.com

 

[UnNamed]

Jim gonna Jim.

 

[apocaliptic]

I mean they did the same thing last gen with the PS4 and PS4 Pro. Is he saying the PS4 failed??

It is not the same thing. They weren't released the same year. When PS4 was released was the most powerful console in the market. The PS4 pro came later as an upgrade.

BTW the price of $399 for the digital version is a great price in 2020 especially for the US market. I understand the complaints about the game prices, but the console is priced very good and complaining about it is a heresy.

 

[DrumNBassDanTTV]

Wtf is this man talking about?

When i read the title of the thread these words are 100% what i muttered to myself haha, seriously the guy talks utter shite.

 

[Calverz]

At this point, everytime the man speaks it makes more people interested in xbox.

 

[Nikana]

How has this not been posted?

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Shut the fuck up, Jim.

-

 

[JLB]

Judging by the popularity of Xss, and the Sad prior, it is likely a consumer demand or lack thereoff for digital stock level. Certainly, all current poles reflect that.

Or people just want the best tier.

Or, as already multiple reports are saying, offer of digital edition is super low.
Also, I think its more precise to compare apples to apples.

 

[frogger]

Are there any XSS style console in the history for comparison?

 

[oldergamer]

Are there any XSS style console in the history for comparison?

nope

 

[Aidah]

Not sure what past examples he's talking about.

You put the Wii there, but that's not really the same things. The Wii wasn't trying to be the same thing as the other consoles but shitier, it was trying to be its own thing.

 

[Dr Bass]

The analogies people are making here are way off, but at the same time I can't think of an analogous system to the Series S in console history? The 32x maybe? But even that isn't the same at all. Everyone has pretty much had a single console model at launch.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

At first I was just going to take Jim's word for it well the more I think about it the more I'm unsure there's ever been something like the series S in history. I could almost wonder if the series x was always planned to be like the pro version or like the Xbox one x where it comes out mid-gen but when they learned from whatever sources they have how powerful the PS5 would be they fast tracked it and maybe that's why we don't really see games playing on it. it could also have some bearing on the idea that so many games are getting Ray tracing patched in at launch on series x whereas on PS5 they just have Ray tracing naturally or I guess the term is natively. I want you guys to know this is all just me speculating and I'm not trying to spread fud it just hit me again what an oddity the series s is.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Fuck this guy. We need the original PS4 management back. He destroys everything they built.

Hell, bring back the Sony from 2010 when trying to turn around the PS3.

 

[bishopcruz]

Hell, bring back the Sony from 2010 when trying to turn around the PS3.

Sony has been building to this for a while. UBER successful Sony is worst Sony. Sony with something to prove though, perfection.

 

[lock2k]

Hell, bring back the Sony from 2010 when trying to turn around the PS3.

That Sony was fire.

 

[Silent Viper]

GTFO


Jimmy


Btw excellent video

 

[SkylineRKR]

I am very hyped for the S. The PS5 will be my main system, but buying a 500 X alongside a PS5 is a bit of a stretch. I am going to pre order the S just for GP benefits. Its a relatively low entry point. Perhaps, if I really dig it, I might end up with an X if its going down in price.

I bought the PS5 DE for 400. This is a bit of a risk as I know the store prices will be rip offs. But I don't buy that many games anymore. With a 300 S its 700 bucks for 2 new systems. I think thats pretty cool.

OT: Jim is talking shit. I can't think of any example.

 

[FunkMiller]

Fuck me, I miss Layden.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Sony has been building to this for a while. UBER successful Sony is the worst Sony. Sony with something to prove though, perfection.

That Sony was fire.

Hate to say it, but this might be another early PS3 era Sony. MS might wanna take as many shots as they can.

 

[TKOFromTokyo]

GTFO


Jimmy


Btw excellent video

His points were valid, but stop being so whiny. It made it almost unbearable to listen to the video.

 

[vpance]

Are there any XSS style console in the history for comparison?

360 Core/Arcade. Arguably even better value in comparision at the time since it still supported physical.

Both have similarly sized trade offs. Core with a tiny amount of storage space and XSS with downgraded graphics. All for a cheaper initial buy in.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Hate to say it, but this might be another early PS3 era Sony. MS might wanna take as many shots as they can.

They haven't dropped overly expensive SKU's and the PS5 architecture seems sound, the console seems to be in great demand. But for the rest it does harken back to the dark days of the PS3.

 

[ZehDon]

And the public agrees with Jim, according to all recent polls. No one wants to buy a [lower spec machine]. People in general are stupid but consumers at large can still sniff out a bad deal.

The "polls" are reporting the interest of the hardcore audience, who care about 4k resolution and the highest fidelity. The Series S is targeted at people who wouldn't know that the polls exist in the first place. If you think a budget machine won't sell units, then the lower-spec smart phone space is an area you need to read in to. And no, consumers still go in for for their $1500 iPhones that include a marginally larger screen and think they're getting a good deal, and believe that Apple is subsiding the cost of that hardware. People are pretty fucking stupid.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

They haven't dropped overly expensive SKU's and the PS5 architecture seems sound, the console seems to be in great demand. But for the rest it does harken back to the dark days of the PS3.

Yeah. I'm exaggerating but I hope they change or at least put a gag order on Jim.

 

[vpance]

The "polls" are reporting the interest of the hardcore audience, who care about 4k resolution and the highest fidelity. The Series S is targeted at people who wouldn't know that the polls exist in the first place. If you think a budget machine won't sell units, then the lower-spec smart phone space is an area you need to read in to. And no, consumers still go in for for their $1500 iPhones that include a marginally larger screen and think they're getting a good deal, and believe that Apple is subsiding the cost of that hardware. People are pretty fucking stupid.

The hardcore are the ones that buy launch consoles. Casuals will continue playing PS4/XB1 or wait for the first big price drop 2-3 years in. Anyways, the polls have over 100k votes so they're probably quite wide ranging in demographics.

This is how it always was even back in last gen, where all the online polls/preorder splits ended up reflecting reality in sales. I'd put a significant amount of confidence in them.

 

[mcjmetroid]

And that ladies and gentlemen is a very spooked Sony. Is this the first time he's addressed the competition like this?

 

[Birgitte2004-2]

Yeah, so I even went searching around to see if there was some obscure less-mainstream consoles that did something like this, and I didn't find anything. There are examples of the PSP E-1000 removing internet, or game.com removing the front light, but those don't really fit as I read his comment.

I have no idea what the hell he's talking about.

 

[DavJay]

PS4 sells more than PS4 Pro weekly. Same with the One S to X. Series X is going to do well because of parents. Entry price is inportant

 

[bishopcruz]

360 Core/Arcade. Arguably even better value in comparision at the time since it still supported physical.

Both have similarly sized trade offs. Core with a tiny amount of storage space and XSS with downgraded graphics. All for a cheaper initial buy in.

Uh, nope. The Core and early arcade Xbox 360s were was a HORRIBLE value. THe core didn't even have HD cables at launch. The later arcades weren't too bad, once they had 4GB so you could save your games. And the early ones at least came with some games, a wireless controller, and a memory card. The core had ZERO storage, so you had to buy a memory card, had a wired controller, and no HDD of course. So in order to even play games you had to buy at minimum a memory card which I think was about $30 or so, I forget (correct me if I am wrong) and the HD cables were $40 if you didn't get them in the box. It was called the tard pack for a reason. Buying the $400 dollar version was better in every way value wise.

The Xbox Series S has all the features of the XSX save the high resolution, and it is $200 less. Whether or not that works for you is a personal thing, but it is a downright idiotic buy like the Core was.

 

[frogger]

360 Core/Arcade. Arguably even better value in comparision at the time since it still supported physical.

Both have similarly sized trade offs. Core with a tiny amount of storage space and XSS with downgraded graphics. All for a cheaper initial buy in.

That's not a good comparison.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Sony in 2010-2013 was soo good, if Microsoft had at LEAST one launch or launch window game I wanted to play I would pick up the series X, because Sony’s lack of competition is wack.

 

[ZehDon]

The hardcore are the ones that buy launch consoles. Casuals will continue playing PS4/XB1 or wait for the first big price drop...

Well, the hardcore are the ones that buy launch consoles because of the price of new consoles at launch. When the slim revisions are introduced, and the cost of manufacturing goes down, the casuals jump in because the price allows them to. This is what Microsoft is hoping to front load with the Series S - the casuals who wait for the price to come down have their entry point available at the start of the generation instead of mid-way through. Will it play out that way? Who knows - we've never had this before.

 

[vpance]

Uh, nope. The Core and early arcade Xbox 360s were was a HORRIBLE value. THe core didn't even have HD cables at launch. The later arcades weren't too bad, once they had 4GB so you could save your games. And the early ones at least came with some games, a wireless controller, and a memory card. The core had ZERO storage, so you had to buy a memory card, had a wired controller, and no HDD of course. So in order to even play games you had to buy at minimum a memory card which I think was about $30 or so, I forget (correct me if I am wrong) and the HD cables were $40 if you didn't get them in the box. It was called the tard pack for a reason. Buying the $400 dollar version was better in every way value wise.

The Xbox Series S has all the features of the XSX save the high resolution, and it is $200 less. Whether or not that works for you is a personal thing, but it is a downright idiotic buy like the Core was.

Still, it supported physical which XSS doesn't, which allows people to save a lot of money by reselling games. The value of XSS to casuals is overemphasized on here because of how this point gets overlooked.

Well, the hardcore are the ones that buy launch consoles because of the price of new consoles at launch. When the slim revisions are introduced, and the cost of manufacturing goes down, the casuals jump in because the price allows them to. This is what Microsoft is hoping to front load with the Series S - the casuals who wait for the price to come down have their entry point available at the start of the generation instead of mid-way through. Will it play out that way? Who knows - we've never had this before.

The price of all the SKUs will go down, but the relative value will remain similar. I don't think the price barrier to entry is that huge of a deal. Definitely not at launch, so the XSS is almost as much of a pointless marketing tool as the PS5 DE is. However the snowball effect which the hardcore start at launch is a strong factor that affects the rate of sales as the gen goes on.

The 2 most important thing to casuals is
1) where most of their friends are playing
2) the ability to sell games

And XSS misses both of those.

 

[bishopcruz]

Still, it supported physical which XSS doesn't, which allows people to save a lot of money by reselling games. The value of XSS to casuals is overemphasized on here because of how this point gets overlooked.

I thought I mentioned physical in the last sentence. My bad, I meant to. It still doesn't make the Core a better value.

DIgital games drop in price all the time though. Sometimes you can easily get a digital title for well under what you can get the physical version, and with game pass that point almost becomes moot for the people this is targeting. If you are planning to not have game pass and you are planning to only buy AAA games at launch to sell them later, then sure... the value might not work, but as I said that is personal. But a LOT of these people who don't care about 4k and are buying PS4s and XBox One S consoles fore around this price RIGHT NOW, can get this and game pass for $25 a month for two years, own it, and then upgrade later, or just keep game pass at $15 a month. That is a pretty strong value proposition. Whether or not that really hits with the causal market we will see soon enough. But it is definitely a new idea, and I am damn curious to see if it hits.

 

[Dr Bass]

Hate to say it, but this might be another early PS3 era Sony. MS might wanna take as many shots as they can.

It's not even close.

 

[The_Mike]

I doubt Sony shouldn't be afraid, but are they anyway since they actually have to trash talk the competitor?

 

[bishopcruz]

Well, the hardcore are the ones that buy launch consoles because of the price of new consoles at launch. When the slim revisions are introduced, and the cost of manufacturing goes down, the casuals jump in because the price allows them to. This is what Microsoft is hoping to front load with the Series S - the casuals who wait for the price to come down have their entry point available at the start of the generation instead of mid-way through. Will it play out that way? Who knows - we've never had this before.

Exactly, and even this generation prices never really dropped that much. The days of the PS2 launching at $299 and finishing the gen at $99 are over. I doubt the XsX and PS5 will ever get to $200 this time around, and if they hit $299 by generations end I will be surprised (Yes, the Xbox 1 did it, but it also had a LOT of fat it could cut, and required an almost complete hardware redsign to pull it off.)

TODAY the MSRP of the PS4 is $299.

 

[Ps5ProFoSho]

If you ppl don't see the difference in making a mid gen console update (or releasing a console like the Wii) than releasing two different consoles at the same time one with lower specs than the other... I don't know what to think.



The thing is that Jim doesn't understand that MS isn't or doesn't want to be in the console wars anymore... they are in the gamepass subscription war... and don't care if you play on an xbox, pc, or an smartphone via xcloud.

I'm PS through and through since PSone but MS is still gonna get my money to play GamePass on my phone and tablet.

 

[ZehDon]

...The 2 most important thing to casuals is
1) where most of their friends are playing
2) the ability to sell games

And XSS misses both of those.

Point 1, seems to make sense.

Point 2, not really, why do you think that? Sony reported just over half of all PS4 games sold in the previous financial year were digital. Individual publishers are reporting even larger swings - Capcom at over 80%, for example. Everyone is moving digitial. I'm not - but most people are.

Cost and software is the main factor that slows adoption. From Microsoft perspective, Series S addresses the former, Gamepass addresses the latter. Review the sales momentum for the previous consoles, paying attention to when cost reductions - either through RRP decreases, or hardware revisions - land, and watch the sales increase. Cost is the main driver.

 

[vpance]

I thought I mentioned physical in the last sentence. My bad, I meant to. It still doesn't make the Core a better value.

DIgital games drop in price all the time though. Sometimes you can easily get a digital title for well under what you can get the physical version, and with game pass that point almost becomes moot for the people this is targeting. If you are planning to not have game pass and you are planning to only buy AAA games at launch to sell them later, then sure... the value might not work, but as I said that is personal. But a LOT of these people who don't care about 4k and are buying PS4s and XBox One S consoles fore around this price RIGHT NOW, can get this and game pass for $25 a month for two years, own it, and then upgrade later, or just keep game pass at $15 a month. That is a pretty strong value proposition. Whether or not that really hits with the causal market we will see soon enough. But it is definitely a new idea, and I am damn curious to see if it hits.

True there will be digital sales but I still think casuals are old fashioned for the most part. They want the certainty of being able to sell their games at X price after X time post launch.

Point 1, seems to make sense.

Point 2, not really, why do you think that? Sony reported just over half of all PS4 games sold in the previous financial year were digital. Individual publishers are reporting even larger swings - Capcom at over 80%, for example. Everyone is moving digitial. I'm not - but most people are.

Cost and software is the main factor that slows adoption. From Microsoft perspective, Series S addresses the former, Gamepass addresses the latter. Review the sales momentum for the previous consoles, paying attention to when cost reductions - either through RRP decreases, or hardware revisions - land, and watch the sales increase. Cost is the main driver.

Yes and I think the other half who are still buying physical are the casuals. It's still a large portion of the market. XSS is stuck in a sort of no man's land where its appeal is actually most suited to "casuals" who post on here or Ree.

 

[ZehDon]

... Yes and I think the other half who are still buying physical are the casuals. It's still a large portion of the market. XSS is stuck in a sort of no man's land where its appeal is actually most suited to "casuals" who post on here or Ree.

Why? As more consoles have been sold, the skew toward digital has only increased. This would lend credence to casuals, not the hardcore, buy more digitally. Do you have anything to back up your thought?

Let me phrase it this way: if the hardcore buy digital, why does the XSX have a disc drive? Wouldn’t it make more sense for Microsoft to put a disc drive in the XSS not the XSX so that they’re making more money off their hardcore who primarily digital? Mobile is dominated by casual players. Old folks like me want a physical collection, not the casuals.

Your comments about XSS being in no mans land also doesn’t really make sense. It appeals to casuals or those looking for a budget entry point. That’s not “no mans land“. It has a very clear market, one that has proven to be quite lucrative.

 

[bishopcruz]

True there will be digital sales but I still think casuals are old fashioned for the most part. They want the certainty of being able to sell their games at X price after X time post launch.



Yes and I think the other half who are still buying physical are the casuals. It's still a large portion of the market. XSS is stuck in a sort of no man's land where its appeal is actually most suited to "casuals" who post on here or Ree.

Eh, I see more and more casuals buying digital. For example a casual friend of mine bought a PS4 and went pretty much all digital including FFVII, covid increased digital sales a ton, and a lot of people are now used to digital more than ever, PC which has a MASSIVE casual market is almost entirely digital, people are just not that into physical media anymore.

I would argue that the people really complaining about a lack of physical are the core gamers nowadays, basically the old fogies like me who want to have a physical copy even when it honestly doesn't add much at all other than making me sorta happy to hold something in my hands.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

When your opponent lies on the ground defenseless you go full Mortal Kombat, but then I have no pathological need to root for the underdog.