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[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Here's the thing, though - the guy is such an outlier that you will be hard pressed to generalize his behavior to any particular trigger. 99.999999% of misogynists do not commit mass murder.

He is an outlier, yes, but I feel as though the issue here has more to do with misogynist attitudes as a whole. While most do not kill large groups of people, the attitudes are still common and prevalent throughout society.

I think that's what Mumei was trying to get at, anyway.

 

[CadetMahoney]

It's crazy how much he was obsessed with sex and his virginity.

For someone with more money than most folk, it's weird how he just didn't pay for it if he was so desperate. It's even legal in some states or something. Nevada and Rhode Island prostitution is legal, in Nevada prostitution is entirely legal.

 

[Aesius]

He mentioned those guys in his manifesto. Considered them to be pathetic nerds that he wouldn't ever want to befriend because he wouldn't get anything out of it.

Yep.

The guy wrote entire passages about how lonely and miserable he was, and then in the next passage he would talk about going home to hang out with his friends or even hanging out with a group of guys at his college.

 

[Xpike]

I wonder if he had considered online dating or something. I question whether someone so disturbed could maintain a relationship, but it may have helped him.

The problem with this though was he felt that girls should have flocked to him because he was a 'gentleman' and he drove a BMW.

I'm guessing since from what I skimmed though in the manifest that he didn't consider online friends "real" friends, that he though of online dating as fake and only for pathetic losers.

 

[BunnyBear]

Some more thoughts as I delve further into the manifesto:

- It was kind of striking how casually he mentioned making use of 'one of his several stalking account on FB' as though that were quite normal. It was just in the midst of a sentence, passed over without comment. I found that quite telling.

- His level of self-interest and narcissism was astronomical, but so to was his inability to feel compassion or perceive the similar weaknesses of others. Not once does he seem to contemplate that he is not alone in this feeling a of frustration and envy. He puts almost everyone in his life on a pedestal beside his stepmom, and it clearly contributed to his bitterness. The realisation that even those blonde girls he so desires have insecurities, weaknesses, etc is just beyond him, and I feel as though that realisation may have soothed his bitterness had he ever considered it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

For someone with more money than most folk, it's weird how he just didn't pay for it if he was so desperate. It's even legal in some states or something. Nevada and Rhode Island prostitution is legal, in Nevada prostitution is entirely legal.

Consider his high standards and lofty sense self-worth.

Can you really imagine him "stooping" to be with "a whore"? Based on what you've seen and read, it doesn't even seem a plausible suggestion. To him, that would be akin to admitting defeat, and he's to arrogant to think he's capable of losing. To him, there is no losing; only delayed success and foolish paupers who should know better causing that delay.

 

[leadbelly]

Some more thoughts as I delve further into the manifesto:

- It was kind of striking how casually he mentioned making use of 'one of his several stalking account on FB' as though that were quite normal. It was just in the midst of a sentence, passed over without comment. I found that quite telling.

- His level of self-interest and narcissism was astronomical, but so to was his inability to feel compassion or perceive the similar weaknesses of others. Not once does he seem to contemplate that he is not alone in this feeling a of frustration and envy. He puts almost everyone in his life on a pedestal beside his stepmom, and it clearly contribute to his bitterness. The realisation that even those bliss girls he so desires have insecurities, weaknesses, etc is just beyond him, and I feel as though that realisation may have soothed his bitterness had he ever considered it.

Yeah. That is exactly how he was. Those personality traits are obvious symptoms of Asperger's and autism

It is so apparent in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvaVWdJRQM

 

[suzu]

For someone with more money than most folk, it's weird how he just didn't pay for it if he was so desperate.

Well..

 

[Laughing Banana]

Goddamn reading his manifesto.

His childhood life is a thing of beauty that millions of kids would love to have, I mean damn.

If only someone can inject some much needed perspective in him.

 

[marimorimo]

I admit I've been having a morbid fascination with the killer because of all his contradictions. In all appearances, he seemed to have everything money could buy, he wasn't bad looking, and he seemed intelligent judging from his writing and vocabulary. How could such a person become so depressed and misgonystic to the point of committing murder?

I've been reading his Manifesto and while I don't believe everything he wrote down as truth, it was a good glimpse on how HE saw the world. I do think his parents tried their best to help him, but did not expect the level of psychological disturbance their son had. Elliot Rodgers had zero emotional growth from kindergarten to college. He was bratty and extremely selfish as a child, as many children are/ It's a phase most people grow out of, but he never did.

He considered himself to be a superior being, yet acknowledges that he is weak, pathetic, and shy. He thinks the popular kids are obnoxious, yet he wants to be part of them. He compares himself to anything and everyone, falling short on just about anything except maybe video games. He craves attention, and as he can't get it by being popular, he resorts to making trouble to gain recognition. Bundle of contradictions if I've ever seen one.

His problem is rooted in how he sees the world. It's all about ME, ME, ME. He expects everything to be handed to him on a silver platter just by virtue of existing. I don't think he even truly tried to talk to girls because of his fear and anxiety. But he needed them to feel validated by society. He was self-aware of many of his faults, and yet he it never occurred to him to look within and find the answer, to escape from the hole he dug for himself. How can anybody be so introspective and yet so out of touch?

Maybe if he had a friend who stuck by him and put up with his PITA personality, helping him become more self-aware or entertaining him so his pain is alleviated even just a little, the tragedy wouldn't have happened. Instead, all he got was ridicule which only served to fan the flames. I've been depressed many times in my life and just having *someone* there helped tremendously in centering myself and prevented me from letting go of life.

Next time, maybe you should befriend that shy, weird kid who's always alone and bullied by the other guys. He may not be the best guy and may even tick you off, but keep at it anyway. You just might make a difference.

 

[TheOddOne]

The flatmates he stabbed

link

Jesus.

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown described what authorities found as "a horrific crime scene," saying the roommates and their visitor had been "repeatedly stabbed," but he did not give any details on how much time elapsed between the stabbings and the subsequent shooting spree, in which Rodger slaughtered three more victims -- including two women at a UCSB sorority house he had identified as the school's "hottest" -- injured seven, and then, according to a sheriff's statement, died from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot to the head.

According to an unconfirmed report that quoted "family friends," at least one of the murdered men was just days from moving out of the apartment. The sheriff revealed during a news conference Saturday that in January, Rodger accused Hong of stealing $22 worth of candles from him. Rodger took the unusual step of making a citizen's arrest for petty theft and contacted sheriff's deputies, who arrested Hong. He was booked and released, but the two men evidently continued living together.

The latter part of the attacks involved Rodger using his BMW as a battering ram against an Alamo man who was cruising on a skateboard -- breaking both his legs.

His parents said they were so concerned that they called police. Officers who showed up at Rodger's doorstep for a mental health check in April, however, found a well-mannered, if shy, young man who they concluded posed no risk.

 

[Slayer-33]

Damn at the stabbing. Sick mother fuck.. Jesus this guys head was warped past comprehension.

The poor kids probably didn't see shit coming at all. Holy fuck

 

[OneEyeTwoHead]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

 

[BocoDragon]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

Where on earth could this possibly fit into anything? I'm calling bullshit.

That manifesto was one of the most hetero-centric pieces of writing I've ever seen.

 

[ISOM]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

This has been floated by numerous people and I find it kind of lazy armchair analyzing. From his manifesto he didn't describe any gay experience or being attracted to men. I think they are saying he is gay purely on the facts of his looks and that he is a virgin.

 

[LQX]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

I bet they are basing this on how he looked and maybe his mannerisms more than anything else.

 

[Tornado Condor]

I'm in a "deer in the headlights" mood right now. Absolutely speechless. I feel for everyone in UCSB.

I had plans to head to Isla Vista this past Friday to party with my friends who are graduating in 2 weeks. At the end of the day, i did not feel like going and spent my memorial weekend with my parents instead. I'm just thinking that i could have been one of those who got shot because i always love walking around Isla Vista and eating in the restaurants there.

I hope the families of those whom got killed find peace.

 

[Oersted]

Honestly, in every single girl-age thread, there is some contingent that is just as scary. I'm not being hyperbolic. There are always a few posts that leave me queasy and I find myself leaving the board for a while. Earlier in this thread Devo posted two threads just from a day or two ago that were fucked up and scary.

I think it's unfortunate that the last few pages have been about people trying to see a victim side of this killer. A better discussion would be about how toxic his views were, and yet how prevalent variations of them are. The notion that women are a prize to be had; even the common sentiment that women crave wealthy, handsome men can be seen in this guy. He had nice clothes, expensive glasses, nice car, connections, where were the women? But every thread you'll see the same sentiment, that women *fill in the blanks.*

And early in this thread, there were guys saying they never realized that women lived with fear because of all the rape precautions, the harassment, etc; and yet women on this board are in every single thread shouting this. But we're never fucking heard. We're ignored. For a few hours yesterday, I thought we might actually get somewhere. Maybe a few guys would listen a bit longer and digest what we've been saying. But, nope. We're back to "creep shaming" and shit.

Thank you for your post.

 

[BocoDragon]

I've been flip flopping in my mind as to whether this incident is merely a reflection of societal patriarchy/misogyny.

Oh yes, I think it is very possible that it is. A man who saw women as the gatekeepers to what what rightfully his by birthright? Obviously could have been stoked by the ideas floating around in society about the role of women, the role of men, and the inequal interplay between them.

But in the back of my head... I wonder if this isn't just an extension of the male biological condition. Man is a being who cannot reproduce by himself. His very genetic survival does depend on him being, to a certain degree, obsessed with women and reproduction. (and it is fine for those who are celibate or homosexual... but their hetero/sexually interested counterparts are obviously fostered by the nature of us being a reproduced species). Why wouldn't this very natural inclination occasionally go bad? We have eating disorders - when natural food cravings go bad. Perhaps this is just a sexual attraction disorder. It's not that unremarkable that a sexually unsuccessful man would snap.

I think something like this can certainly be promoted by patriarchial trends in society. But I guess I can't help but wonder if this kind of thing would happen even in a utopia. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. I have no problem with using this moment to have a conversation about misogyny, patriarchy and sexual roles.

 

[Nesotenso]

so what was the timeline of the attacks?

- he stabs and kills two of his room mates and their friend.
- attacks two girls at a sorority and runs someone over with his car.
- then does a drive by and ultimately shoots himself?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Oh wow - the /v/ thread is just amazing!

http://a.pomf.se/guifsr.webm

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I've been flip flopping in my mind as to whether this incident is merely a reflection of societal patriarchy/misogyny.

Oh yes, I think it is very possible that it is. A man who saw women as the gatekeepers to what what rightfully his by birthright? Obviously could have been stoked by the ideas floating around in society about the role of women, the role of men, and the inequal interplay between them.

But in the back of my head... I wonder if this isn't just an extension of the male biological condition. Man is a being who cannot reproduce by himself. His very genetic survival does depend on him being, to a certain degree, obsessed with women and reproduction. (and it is fine for those who are celibate or homosexual... but their hetero/sexually interested counterparts are obviously fostered by the nature of us being a reproduced species). Why wouldn't this very natural inclination occasionally go bad? We have eating disorders - when natural food cravings go bad. Perhaps this is just a sexual attraction disorder. It's not that unremarkable that a sexually unsuccessful man would snap.

I think something like this can certainly be promoted by patriarchial trends in society. But I guess I can't help but wonder if this kind of thing would happen even in a utopia. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. I have no problem with using this moment to have a conversation about misogyny, patriarchy and sexual roles.

I can think of a better way to fuel a desire for sex than killing people.

If it was some type of disorder like you say, I would think he would attempt rape to feed his desire that you hypothesis, than kill six people.

 

[benjipwns]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

Where on earth could this possibly fit into anything? I'm calling bullshit.

That manifesto was one of the most hetero-centric pieces of writing I've ever seen.

This has been floated by numerous people and I find it kind of lazy armchair analyzing. From his manifesto he didn't describe any gay experience or being attracted to men. I think they are saying he is gay purely on the facts of his looks and that he is a virgin.

I bet they are basing this on how he looked and maybe his mannerisms more than anything else.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/...exual-impulses-triggered-calif-mass-shooting/

Reality television psychologist Dr. Robi Ludwig asserted to Fox News that a mass shooting in California over the weekend may have been triggered because the suspect could not cope with his “homosexual impulses.”

...

By late Saturday night, Ludwig was speculating to Fox News that Rodger’s gay feelings had turned him into a mass murderer.

“When I was first listening to him, I was like, ‘Oh, he’s angry with women for rejecting him,’” Ludwig recalled. “And then I started to have a different idea: Is this somebody who is trying to fight against his homosexual impulses?’”

“Was he angry with women because they were taking away men from him?” she continued. “But this is a kid who couldn’t connect, and felt enraged, and wanted to obliterate anyone that made him feel like a nothing.”

Ludwig later declared that Roger’s could have been “angry at the men for not choosing him.”

 

[BocoDragon]

I can think of a better way to fuel a desire for sex than killing people.

If it was some type of disorder like you say, I would think he would attempt rape to feed his desire that you hypothesis, than kill six people.

I don't see why this is that complicated.

You are a being that is obsessed with sex (most males) -> You can't get sex -> You learn to hate the game of sex.

Many men, unsuccessful at the game, have come to loathe their lot in life. No, rape is not a natural next step there... it's a bitterness towards the whole social and sexual game of life.

The novelty here is making it into some complex revenge world view and acting it out. That's the difference with this boy. But the feelings that led into it? I'll bet you sexual bitterness is common amongst the unwilling virgin set. And I think that might be inevitable as long as you have sex, it's important for genetic survival, and there are winners and losers....

 

[faceless007]

Reality television psychologist

I don't know if I can think of a less confidence-inspiring title.

 

[leadbelly]

I've been flip flopping in my mind as to whether this incident is merely a reflection of societal patriarchy/misogyny.

Oh yes, I think it is very possible that it is. A man who saw women as the gatekeepers to what what rightfully his by birthright? Obviously could have been stoked by the ideas floating around in society about the role of women, the role of men, and the inequal interplay between them.

But in the back of my head... I wonder if this isn't just an extension of the male biological condition. Man is a being who cannot reproduce by himself. His very genetic survival does depend on him being, to a certain degree, obsessed with women and reproduction. (and it is fine for those who are celibate or homosexual... but their hetero/sexually interested counterparts are obviously fostered by the nature of us being a reproduced species). Why wouldn't this very natural inclination occasionally go bad? We have eating disorders - when natural food cravings go bad. Perhaps this is just a sexual attraction disorder. It's not that unremarkable that a sexually unsuccessful man would snap.

I think something like this can certainly be promoted by patriarchial trends in society. But I guess I can't help but wonder if this kind of thing would happen even in a utopia It doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. I have no problem with using this moment to have a conversation about misogyny, patriarchy and sexual roles.

Well, you can't escape the fact that he was socially inept and extremely obsessive. You only have to watch some of his videos to understand why no woman was interested in him. You could attribute that to his Asperger's and other mental problems that developed. He was just incapable of understanding what it was that women didn't like.

Was it entitlement and misogyny in a patriarchal society that is the cause, or was it his extreme depression caused by his own inability to form a relationship?

He states that he 'deserved' a woman, but then he says that in the context of other men. He deserved women more than the fat loser he saw in the shop.

Is it toxic and rampant misogyny within society that is the cause or is it frustration boiling over?

My point of view is, the actual act of constantly being rejected alone is enough to cause a person to harbour resentment. Anyone can understand this. If someone does something you deem hurtful to you, there is potential for resentment and bitterness. In that mindset you may then see a warped viewpoint; a biased view of women.

It's also possible that misogynistic views from other men then have an influence, but perhaps that is mainly 'confirming' his own view based on his experience with women.

I'm nto sure what the answer is, but I do notice that what one person may see as entitlement within society, another might view as bitter anger built up from constant rejection.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

That theory seems ridiculous to me. Has she even read the manifesto? I bet she just watched the videos before weighing in with her "expert" opinion.

 

[The One Who Knocks]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

While he describes numerous handsome men with well-chiseled jawlines, muscular bodies, and beautiful blond hair, it seems a misreading to me to belief there is any homosexual basis. From a very young age in his manifesto, he emphasises his failure in physical activities (swinging on his own, football, skateboarding), makes note of how small and weak he is desiring this physique, notes how when he dyed his hair blond he had a moment of joy and acceptance, acknowledges that he constantly fantasies about women (repeatedly stating in graphic detail that there were numerous times when he had an erection upon simply seeing a 'beautiful blonde'), displays no attraction towards men (James is his only friend, but he doesn't have any attraction to him), and harbours a great resentment against any man that matches the look of 'muscular, blond, chiseled, tall' in fear that they've certainly had a lot of sex and would be one of the 'obnoxious jerks' to bully him (despite him, too, wishing to be one). I really don't think there's material in the manifesto to support this view. In fact, he responds negatively to the many bullies who call him "faggot" in his manifesto and emphasises a clear contempt.

Edit: And as it turns out it's almost certainly from an observation of the videos, judging his mannerisms and appearance, rather than actually reading the manifesto.

 

[Mumei]

Here's the thing, though - the guy is such an outlier that you will be hard pressed to generalize his behavior to any particular trigger. 99.999999% of misogynists do not commit mass murder.

I'm not attempting to identify a trigger when I say we need to look at the social context. I'm saying that we need to ask where he got his ideas about women. We need to ask how these opinions might have been reinforced, not just by rejection that he took as confirmation of those views. When someone has issues with women, and they are said to have an account on a known (to me, anyway) anti-PUA website just as notable for misogynist rants as regular PUA-websites, and then this same person ends up shooting women, I think we'd be remiss to avoid thinking about how those things are connected. I don't doubt that in the coming weeks (days, if we're particularly unlucky) we'll see posts like this attempting to justify what he did, or express deep sympathy for the sentiment.

And this is a very good overview - much better than I could give in a post - of why his misogyny matters and why we shouldn't be trying to whitewash it and pretend it isn't part of the issue.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well, you can't escape the fact that he was socially inept and extremely obsessive. You only have to watch some of his videos to understand why no woman was interested in him. You could attribute that to his Asperger's and other mental problems that developed. He was just incapable of understanding what it was that women didn't like.

Was it entitlement and misogyny in a patriarchal society that is the cause, or was it his extreme depression caused by his own inability to form a relationship?

He states that he 'deserved' a woman, but then he says that in the context of other men. He deserved women more than the fat loser he saw in the shop.

Is it toxic and rampant misogyny within society that is the cause or is it frustration boiling over?

My point of view is, the actual act of constantly being rejected alone is enough to cause a person to harbour resentment. Anyone can understand this. If someone does something you deem hurtful to you, there is potential for resentment and bitterness. In that mindset you may then see a warped viewpoint; a biased view of women.

It's also possible that misogynistic views from other men then have an influence, but perhaps that is mainly 'confirming' his own view based on his experience with women.

I'm nto sure what the answer is, but I do notice that what one person may see as entitlement within society, another might view as bitter anger built up from constant rejection.

Right. I think you are saying something similar as myself, in different words..

Patriarchy and misogyny can absolutely foster a sense of entitlement that might lead to incidents like this.

But even in the absence of a gender-imbalanced society... simply the act of being born as a sexual being implies you are born into a "game", and there are losers in that game. Being a loser in that game will hurt, and there are many responses to it....

 

[leadbelly]

But even in the absence of a gender-imbalanced society... simply the act of being born as a sexual being implies you are born into a "game", and there are losers in that game. Being a loser in that game will hurt, and there are many responses to it....

Yeah. It doesn't even have to be sex, necessarily, there are other ways in which we compete, it's just that sexual impulse is obviously an extremely strong motivator and a big part of our life seems to centre around it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Yeah. It doesn't even have to be sex, necessarily, there are other ways in which we compete, it's just that sexual impulse obviously an extremely strong motivator and a big part of our life seems to centre around it.

Captialism comes to mind. Same equation. It implies winners and losers... eventually some of those losers will react.

 

[leadbelly]

Captialism comes to mind. Same equation. It implies winners and losers... eventually some of those losers will react.

Yeah. A feeling that the wealth disparity is unjust. Can cause in some cases revolution.

 

[Syf]

What's alarming me is thinking about how common this sort of attitude was on the forums I used to visit. Not to the extremes that this guy displayed but along the same lines, and often supported by other members of the community. Makes me wonder about some of those people.

 

[DanteFox]

I've been flip flopping in my mind as to whether this incident is merely a reflection of societal patriarchy/misogyny.

protip: it's not, some people simply feel the need to politicize and color events to suit their worldview or agenda.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Captialism comes to mind. Same equation. It implies winners and losers... eventually some of those losers will react.

Whatever this guy dealt with plenty of other dealt with the same and worse. So what makes him a killer when others aren't? Plenty of people get rejected, are broke, are short, are unattractive, and whatever else.

There's something more to what makes a killer act. I suppose the truth is anyone is capable of murder. No matter what their views are or their experiences.

 

[BocoDragon]

protip: it's not, some people simply feel the need to politicize and color events to suit their worldview or agenda.

Considering that every single thing on earth is made out to be a feminist issue, you don't need to convince me very hard about that.

But given the tone of his manifesto, and the skewed nature of his worldview... to say that there is a grain of truth as to misogyny being involved in this incident is to understate it.

I think this is a far more legitimate platform upon which to discuss gender issues than most of the videogames/superhero design nerdosphere stuff with which we have been inundated the last few years.

Whatever this guy dealt with plenty of other dealt with the same and worse. So what makes him a killer when others aren't? Plenty of people get rejected, are broke, are short, are unattractive, and whatever else.

There's something more to what makes a killer act. I suppose the truth is anyone is capable of murder. No matter what their views are or their experiences.

Oh absolutely.

I can't help but feel that we are a trigger's pull away from discussing whether fat shaming leads to murder, sports fandom leads to murder, console wars lead to murder... P)

But I don't think it's that wrong to discuss the issue that aggetated the incident, even if the actual murder part was almost a separate psychosis from the issue that motivated it.

 

[Future]

Misogyny was clearly involved. But you can take any thought to an insane psychotic level that leads to insane results like these murders. Misogyny did not make him kill people, and he could have used any reason to rationalize his insane thoughts through any sort of social failure he had constructed

I guess the difference from misogyny from other views, like racism, homophobia, etc is that the base views aren't treated with the same disdain in my experience. If people start spewing racist bullshit, they often get called out on it. If the forum is racist, then they get outcast into one of "those" forums

Meanwhile, misogyny can be seen in various male forums everywhere, and often tolerated

 

[leadbelly]

By taking him out of the misogynist context of the woman-hating influences he'd mired himself in, all we're really doing is playing an academic exercise and implying that his expressed hatred for and blame of women wasn't really misogyny because it might've found root somewhere else, because he murdered men too, because he had a mental disorder (while I'm at it, since when is Asperger's syndrome a marker or excuse for criminal behavior or anything other than one of the milder expresssions of autism spectrum disorder, which many have found ways of living & socializing with and walking among the rest of us without killing people or demeaning women and blacks and Asians?).

It's not necessarily about taking it out of the misogynistic context though. He clearly harboured misogynistic views. The question I am raising for instance is was his misogynistic views caused by society or was it simply a reaction to his own rejection?

Clearly it was his own loneliness and inability to attract women that was a big part of his problem. That's how a lot of his posts and videos go.

What makes it society that is the big cause rather than the simple act itself of constantly being rejected? That is the question I was wondering.

And the truth is, I don't really see how his mental problems shouldn't be part of the equation, when it is part of what shaped his personality and his reality.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Reading his manifesto feels really surreal, I am now at the 14 years old part.

Now, I know that it's all written in his point of view and that means it's all his subjective viewpoint and all that, but I can't help but to feel saddened when he described the bullying that he experienced.

Bullying culture...... I wonder how much it contributed to horrific stuff such as this. What a shame.

 

[neurosisxeno]

But given the tone of his manifesto, and the skewed nature of his worldview... to say that there is a grain of truth as to misogyny being involved in this incident is to understate it.

Should every gun-holding sociopath with a manifesto be the indicator of society as a whole? I choose to believe that we as a species are better than that.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's not necessarily about taking it out of the misogynistic context though. He clearly harboured misogynistic views. The question I am raising for instance is was his misogynistic views caused by society or was it simply a reaction to his own rejection?

Clearly it was his own loneliness and inability to attract women that was a big part of his problem. That's how a lot of his posts and videos go.

What makes it society that is the big cause rather than the simple act itself of constantly being rejected? That is the question I was wondering.

And the truth is, I don't really see how his mental problems shouldn't be part of the equation, when it is part of what shaped his personality and his reality.

He wasn't rejected though. He just thought he was because women weren't approaching him and begging to be with him. This is a person that was angry that women didn't offer him sex to make him feel better after he broke his ankle starting a drunken fight.

 

[leadbelly]

He wasn't rejected though. He just thought he was because women weren't approaching him and begging to be with him. This is a person that was angry that women didn't offer him sex to make him feel better after he broke his ankle starting a drunken fight.

I'm not sure there is a huge difference between thinking you are and knowing for sure that you are.

He clearly believed that women didn't like him.

Edit: I will say though, his personality was strange and creepy enough that I can see why women wouldn't be interested in him.

 

[Turnstyle]

Not sure if it was mentioned, and to add to this horrific, albeit fascinating situation, a particular media outlet is suggesting he might actually be gay--and was taking out his rage on women who were having sex with men he could never have.

I'd love to hear their source for that one.

If this guy was gay, he was so far back in the closet he was hanging out with Aslan.

 

[petszk2]

I skimmed through the manifesto, pausing here and there to read a few parts in detail.

Reminded me of the novel "The Collector"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Collector

 

[BocoDragon]

Should every gun-holding sociopath with a manifesto be the indicator of society as a whole? I choose to believe that we as a species are better than that.

I can understand that response.... It does rather bother me that anyone who kills someone gets his worldview and gripes placed under a microscope. We call that terrorism.

And no, I don't think his fringe view is representative of society. There are many gripes people have in this world. Just because one snaps and kills doesn't mean it is representitive of the whole.

But still, I cannot help but read his manifesto here and think: there's a machismo here, a relationship to women which is absurd, shades of which I've seen in others (who are not so murderous), is patently false, and I can't think of a better time to discuss it than now.

I don't think this means he is a perfect representitive sample of the culture at all. But I do think this is not the worst time to discuss male-female relations. I feel so much better discussing it now than I would when a new videogame featuring a big boobed character comes out....

This was an actual psycho with issues with women. It's okay to discuss it.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'd love to hear their source for that one.

If this guy was gay, he was so far back in the closet he was hanging out with Aslan.

The way the human mind works is so complicated. It wouldn't shock me if that was true and the killer himself didn't realize it. Trying to make sense of this kind of insanity is incredibly difficult.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Of course Fox News would be trying to blame this on the gays. :/

 

[BocoDragon]

I'd love to hear their source for that one.

If this guy was gay, he was so far back in the closet he was hanging out with Aslan.

Bravo for that turn of phrase! lol

 

[Casimir]

Where on earth could this possibly fit into anything? I'm calling bullshit.

That manifesto was one of the most hetero-centric pieces of writing I've ever seen.

Fox News is the organization that they were referencing.


Edit: Link has already been posted by benjipwns.