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Sexual Preferences and Racism

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Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Jul 7, 2012
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I feel like there's a world of difference between "no x" and "I prefer x but like some y as well".

oh, that's definitely true. We all have those. Heck I strongly prefer blondes over brunettes, and a certain body shape over another and I surely don't consider myself racist towards gingers or brunettes. I suppose the extreme semplification on online dating profiles, "no blacks", "no Irish" or whatever may or may not have racist connotations because of said simplifications. i don't know, I never did such a thing, although it's very likely these people are indeed racist
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
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That's a false equivalence. A business usually operates publically, and as such they are privy to anti-discrimination laws that will lead to punishment for such prejudice. Like the bakery and the gay couple that has been a popular story this past year.

There is no law for a person saying 'Nah I ain't gonna date them.'


This doesn't make sense. It's because a business operates publicly that we can make anti discriminatory laws. Dating isn't something that effects the public domain and so personal freedom trumps. This distinction has nothing to do with the motivation behind the actions
 

Dusk Soldier

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Jul 2, 2013
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Racial preferences are clearly racist, but they're also unconscious. You really can't choose who you are attracted to.

What can be changed are bullshit arbitrary rules like "I'm not into black women", which might be just as important as preferences.

Racial preferences are not racist lol.
 

User 73706

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I mean, I get what you mean, but businesses are regulated by laws, including anti-discrimination laws. Dating isn't.

I'm talking the ethical concerns behind it, not any legal ones.

EDIT: Then again, if anti-discrimination laws weren't a thing, we'd probably have threads like this regarding discriminatory businesses where people wrote off stereotyping as "preferential" and "just business."
 

Jzero

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Nov 1, 2009
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915
Racial preferences are clearly racist, but they're also unconscious. You really can't choose who you are attracted to.

Today i learned that i am partially racist for finding some races more attractive than others
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
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So you think some black girls are pretty, but would never fuck them. Why? If Nathalie Emmanuel (nsfw) came onto you, you'd say no?

Man, I've seen people say no-no-no to black people until they stumble upon one who is just drop dead gorgeous enough , or goes against their perceptions. Then its a rare, new and welcomed experience.

Then it's back to no-no-no again. Meanwhile they will give their preferred race tremendous leverage.
 

Griss

Member
Sep 26, 2013
11,685
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Is it bad that I laughed at 'No rice, no spice, no curry?' It's just so... catchy. Would be a horrible culinary decision, but damn if it doesn't roll off the tongue.

As for the article, I don't doubt that our sexual desires are rooted in social mores. I don't doubt that someone with racist thoughts is going to have 'preferences' that stem from their racist beliefs. Where you lose me is in saying that these people need to be inclusive, because it starts to sound like people are 'entitled' to sleep with people who fundamentally don't want to, for the sake of political correctness. It starts to sound like policing what people can do or refrain from doing with their bodies.

You don't like working with another race? Fuck you, deal with it. You don't want people of another race moving next door, or joining your golf club, or being your boss, or your landlord? Fuck you, deal with it, you racist cunt. But you don't want to fuck someone of another race? Well shit, it might (might!) be due to some underlying racist attitudes but I can't read your mind and I'm not comfortable in telling you what to do with your body on that score. I'm just not.

You can then get into all sorts of nitty-gritty arguments over what people find attractive. Among my own race (celtic white people), I find pale skin really desirable and don't particularly like tans. I'm Irish, and pale as the moon! My whole family is, and we don't tan. We turn pink. I think that skin preference a natural reaction to the environment I was born into. People of colour ain't gonna have pale skin (it's in the description) so that puts them at a disadvantage in that area. I don't feel bad about that at all.

Because I'm not picky (beggars and choosers etc), I don't give too much of a shit, it's one preference out of many, and I've known plenty of stunning brown and black girls because I ended up moving to a black country during childhood. And in the end, when you meet someone face to face rather than looking through an app, you find that physical preferences like that mean very little if there's a connection. BUT... if I did want to be really picky and had tons of choices, I'm not sure why focusing in on that one physical trait (skin colour / racial features) should be so wrong rather than the more common 'slim people only' filter that many people have and which no one seems to find objectionable. And when I DO have the ability to choose, like on a dating app or (let's be real) watching porn, why am I not just going to filter to some super-pale girl when it's both available and what simply turns me on the most?

There are other issues at play, of course. One would be reproduction, as bizarre as it sounds. If I'm gonna have a kid I want it to look like me, and look like it fits into my heritage. I think a lot of people feel that way and I think that's normal. And if not 'normal', then perfectly acceptable. If I fell in love with someone of another race I'm sure I'd be happy with whatever kid we had, but if you're asking me my preference? I want the kid to look like me.

Or what about culture? Is it so wrong to want to date someone from your own culture? If you have two racially identical countries, and someone only wants to date someone from their own country due to cultural reasons, is that also racist? Isn't it more likely that you'd have stuff in common, that your family and friends would get along, etc? I mean, hell, people from different social classes / educational levels in the same country barely date each other! People want people like them, as far as I can see. I'm not being antagonist, and I think this is a fascinating subject, I'm just curious.

And lastly, how on earth do you go about dealing with this on a societal level rather than an individual level, other than combatting generic racism? Would 'Please sleep with minorities' PSAs really be appropriate or have any effect? I can't imagine they would. This is ultimately an individual issue. There are no organisations or groups involved, and no one knows the truth behind their own sexual preferences but themselves.

If someone really believes deep down 'I could NEVER sleep with a person of x race', then that person is probably racist. But if someone is just saying 'my race only' as a means to filter the thousands of available partners to get one they'd prefer, then I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of racism at all.

So you think some black girls are pretty, but would never fuck them. Why? If Nathalie Emmanuel (nsfw) came onto you, you'd say no?

Looks like my friend's wife.
Fuck that guy :(
 

Gamerloid

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Jun 24, 2013
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I agree with the article. Preference is just programmed into you anyway, and we all know what society programs us with. I been thinking about this for awhile now, and without giving my life story, I don't have a preference because I was never able to receive any messages to subconsciously find whatever attractive.

/going to sleep now so any quotes will have to wait
 

freeofgreed

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Mar 7, 2013
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Tbf, most people probably wouldn't see her as the sort of "black" they don't prefer. She is fairly light skinned.

And good lord she is hot.

That's exactly the point. If she considers herself black and saw a profile that said "no blacks" she probably wouldn't interact with that user even though he very well may have had been attracted to her. That's why it's foolish imo to make such hard hardline requirements.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Nov 16, 2012
35,965
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I feel like the opposite is true. Black men with white women get a lot more dirty looks, etc.

I've noticed similar. I've heard some second-hand gruff from my girlfriend's less welcoming relatives that I'm someone of pakistani descent while she's caucasian. I feel like, particularly in media, there's less of a negative reaction when white men date women of colour as it's seen as some "aw he's so progressive" thing, but do the reverse and it's perceived as some "THEY'RE STEALING OUR WOMEN!" thing. I remember the movie Hitch having something like this regarding its casting.
 
Oct 9, 2013
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I'm having flashbacks to the transgender dating thread.
This will not end well...


Good OP though. Not sure really, but I guess so. I think the main problem is blatantly saying "No X" instead of saying "I prefer X" though that could still be racist.
 

IISANDERII

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Does this make a person racist?: I wouldn't want to have a kid with a black woman because I know the world is racist and my kid would have a tougher and likelier shorter life.
 

BreezyLimbo

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Jul 11, 2014
36,963
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This doesn't make sense. It's because a business operates publicly that we can make anti discriminatory laws. Dating isn't something that effects the public domain and so personal freedom trumps. This distinction has nothing to do with the motivation behind the actions

I'm talking the ethical concerns behind it, not any legal ones.

EDIT: Then again, if anti-discrimination laws weren't a thing, we'd probably have threads like this regarding discriminatory businesses where people wrote off stereotyping as "preferential" and "just business."

Most definitely.

It's just that...personal preference for who you date, who usually affects only you and well, your significant other, is much different then who a business decides to 'let in' because they're the right color. Sure they both stem from preference of one person, but the result is much, much different. That's how I view it, atleast.

Does this make a person racist?: I wouldn't want to have a kid with a black woman because I know the world is racist and my kid would have a tougher and likelier shorter life.

Hoo boy, now that starts getting into eugenics and the morality of 'choosing the best possible partner for the best possible result'..
 

AbsolutBro

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Jul 23, 2012
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I'm talking the ethical concerns behind it, not any legal ones.

EDIT: Then again, if anti-discrimination laws weren't a thing, we'd probably have threads like this regarding discriminatory businesses where people wrote off stereotyping as "preferential" and "just business."

The ethical concerns about who a (generic) person wants to date?


As for the edit: anti-discrimination laws are a thing. We don't even have to speculate like you want to, because we can look at actual history and see the discussions that happened when anti-discrimination laws weren't a thing.

And they'll still have nothing to do with dating as they exist in a realm covered by laws and regulations. The two are almost entirely incomparable.
 

tirminyl

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Dec 5, 2008
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Interesting read.

I feel like the "no [enter race here]" is super racist. I can't help by feel that way.

Yeah, I've had people say that outright to me "you're cute, but I don't date black guys." Someone said the same thing to a guy I know that is Indian, and when he said he was Indian he got an "ok, cool"

I've chatted with people and as soon as they find out I am black, all communication stops. It was all good conversation and fun until then.

I'm sorry, but I don't take that as "I got my preferences."
 

AbsolutBro

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Jul 23, 2012
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...because you didn't actually read the article before commenting.

He's not referring to the article; he's referring to the poster he directly quoted how is claiming that preferences in dating partners are inherently and unconsciously racist.
 

kinggroin

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Sep 4, 2006
14,204
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I'm attracted to attractive women of absolutely every single "race".

Eh. I had no rules, but generally gravitated towards Caucasian women (probably because it felt taboo). Ended up marrying one heh.
 

Hieberrr

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Sep 16, 2009
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I'm attracted to every race, except I'm typical much more attracted to certain. Doesn't make me a racist. Things aren't always so black and white (no pun intended).
 

injurai

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Oct 18, 2011
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Racial preferences are clearly racist, but they're also unconscious. You really can't choose who you are attracted to.

What can be changed are bullshit arbitrary rules like "I'm not into black women", which might be just as important as preferences.

I contest this specific view on preference. Though I'll also expand on why the actions are still racist.

Sexuality is by nature an attempt to decipher the information that human phenotypes convey. So that knife will certainly fall along the categories of race, as traits are interpreted. But it's a primal urge which isn't intrinsically racist. It itself is not grounded in the belief of racial disparagement. However the rationalization of preference through higher thought, where a modern sensitivity to racism is absent, will imbue one's sexual identity with internalized racism. If you had a preference you can easily rationalize it as being purely primal, and understand that it should not dictate your belief or your behavior that interfaces with society. But here we don't see this being done. Thus the actions are racist.

So how does racism feed off of sexuality? I'd argue that racism co-opts preference due to an inability to rationalize the presence of carnal preferences. These gut feelings are allowed to validate racist thought itself, as an appeal to the emotions. Which is highly fallacious. People understand that the urges themselves are not racist, so as racism often goes, racism cloud racism. So of course when a racist is criticized for their belligerent racist pronouncement of their preferences, they will use the fact that the preference are not intrinsically racist as evidence they're actions are not racist. I will certainly give credit to the notion though that racism can help naturally select preference in people, though geography and cultural homogeneity and social upbringing has more to due with our development of preferences. More than anything we are selecting for genetic diversity, not against it.

So whether you call the preference itself racist or not, I think the ultimate interface against society ends up exactly the same. It's racism that is ultimately leading to these preferences being proclaimed. Yes the actions are absolutely racist. Internal to this interface, being both a person's sexual preference and their rationalization. You have the rationalizing being racist, and the sexual preference not intrinsically being racist.
 

Samara

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Dec 5, 2008
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So question, might be a bit uncomfortable, but why do you think some forms of interracial romance have been accepted more than others?

For example, I think while the couples probably have to go through some serious barriers, black men and white women are not seen as taboo in some parts of the country. However, I feel like white men and black women are still seen largely as taboo. (Perhaps due the terrible history of what white slave owners did to female slaves.)

On the other hand, I've seen white men date asian women with success and acceptance.

Bear in mind, this are just my personal experiences. They reflect only my limited social perception.

A lot of black women are seen as a checklist to tick off for some men. It's taboo because, well we're the least wanted (least desirable hair, skin color etc). I don't want to be someone ''fetish'' and when you search black women, its mostly for a hit it and quit it type of hookup.

So for a man to go a stay with his conquest is pretty rare. Yesterday, a young white man with his black girlfriend pointed at us like ''look, they're just like us''.
 

AbsolutBro

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Jul 23, 2012
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I think having a racial preference means there's a twinge of racism or prejudice
I mean, are we talking "I don't like X type of women because they are <insert stereotype here>" or "I prefer features a, b, and c and they are typically found on Y type of women, so that is my general preference".


Because the first? Yeah, pretty racist.
The second? As a made up example, say someone prefers natural redheads. Is it "a twinge of racism" to say they prefer white women, because they are the most likely to be natural redheads? (That's totally not a made up example, btw, redheads are the best.)
 

riotous

Banned
Jan 10, 2014
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just because someone has a preference it doesn't make them a racist by default.

No matter how you word a preference or bias it communicates prejudice against something (or many things.) Actively acknowledging these biases tends to perpetuate them; how you word them can also have an effect both externally and internally (in one's own thoughts.)

However you choose to view racism; at it's core the concept of a sexual race bias is similar to racism. You are "ranking" a race lower than another race; whether you are shouting it from the hills negatively or merely making a positive preference known.. it communicates what you think is superior (and thus, inferior).

The context is less important than other forms of racial bias; what race you chose to fawn for will likely have a smaller affect than a racist Judge... but how is it not in the context of sex, racism or near enough to be considered it?

And how is it logical? Even if you have noticed a positive trend in yourself sexually towards a race, or negatively towards another.. why perpetuate thoughts like that? What are you gaining?

Many people realize later in life they really like all sorts of things they'd closed themselves off to; why would you want to actively close yourself off to an entire race of potential mates?
 

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Jul 11, 2014
36,963
1
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I think having a racial preference means there's a twinge of racism or prejudice

Probably. I mean, if a person is 'No blacks' that's obvious. But say, what if a person likes and preferes natural red heads? Naturally, that excludes most black folk. Would you call that racism if someone preferred red heads?
 

Beelzebufo

Banned
Jan 31, 2014
13,974
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So question, might be a bit uncomfortable, but why do you think some forms of interracial romance have been accepted more than others?

For example, I think while the couples probably have to go through some serious barriers, black men and white women are not seen as taboo in some parts of the country. However, I feel like white men and black women are still seen largely as taboo. (Perhaps due the terrible history of what white slave owners did to female slaves.)

On the other hand, I've seen white men date asian women with success and acceptance.

Bear in mind, this are just my personal experiences. They reflect only my limited social perception.
It's usually the opposite. Black men dating white women is seen as threatening to white men who are more racist.
 

User 73706

Banned
Aug 3, 2010
20,489
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The ethical concerns about who a (generic) person wants to date?


As for the edit: anti-discrimination laws are a thing. We don't even have to speculate like you want to, because we can look at actual history and see the discussions that happened when anti-discrimination laws weren't a thing.

And they'll still have nothing to do with dating as they exist in a realm covered by laws and regulations. The two are almost entirely incomparable.

Uh, yes? I don't see how interpersonal relationships are immune to ethical scrutiny considering they focus on, well, relations between multiple individuals by definition. I think a good place to draw the line with these sorts of situations are with exclusivity and commitment. Like, let me put it this way: I'm a pansexual, mixed Latin / white dude. My preferences may evolve over time, but on a short-term level my tastes absolutely fluctuate. In a committed relationship this isn't as flagrant concerning seeing other people, but it's still totally evident in something like porn. One day I may be looking up white dudes, and on the next I may be looking up black women (among a slew of other potential descriptions and variations). At the same time, though, if I happen to come across one while I'm searching for the other, I'm not going to write them off because it's White Boy Wednesday or something. Additionally, just because I'm looking up one thing doesn't mean my relationship / sex with my partner (who may be another thing) is any less meaningful. If you're barring entire races or prefer some significantly over others to the extent that you almost exclusively seek out that one type, there's a chance those preferences are seeping into other elements of your life, as evidenced by the article. I think one big distinction a lot of people don't seem to be making is:

"No blacks"

is not the same as

"I've only ever dated white people, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to dating other people. I haven't been only looking for white people."

I mean hell, I even outlined in the OP not to post about feeling personally attacked and this thread is still getting it.

I mean, are we talking "I don't like X type of women because they are <insert stereotype here>" or "I prefer features a, b, and c and they are typically found on Y type of women, so that is my general preference".


Because the first? Yeah, pretty racist.
The second? As a made up example, say someone prefers natural redheads. Is it "a twinge of racism" to say they prefer white women, because they are the most likely to be natural redheads? (That's totally not a made up example, btw, redheads are the best.)

I mean, those two examples are more or less flip sides of the same coin. "I prefer X because <typically:stereotype> A" to "I do not prefer Y because <typically:stereotype> -A."
 

Beelzebufo

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What do I do if I'm open to dating anyone I'm attracted to, but I'm not attracted to a certain race for the most part?
 

AbsolutBro

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Uh, yes? I don't see how interpersonal relationships are immune to ethical scrutiny considering they focus on, well, relations between multiple individuals by definition. I think a good place to draw the line with these sorts of situations are with exclusivity and commitment. Like, let me put it this way: I'm a pansexual, mixed Latin / white dude. My preferences may evolve over time, but on a short-term level my tastes absolutely fluctuate. In a committed relationship this isn't as flagrant concerning seeing other people, but it's still totally evident in something like porn. One day I may be looking up white dudes, and on the next I may be looking up black women (among a slew of other potential descriptions and variations). At the same time, though, if I happen to come across one while I'm searching for the other, I'm not going to write them off because it's White Boy Wednesday or something. Additionally, just because I'm looking up one thing doesn't mean my relationship / sex with my partner (who may be another thing) is any less meaningful. If you're barring entire races or prefer some significantly over others to the extent that you almost exclusively seek out that one type, there's a chance those preferences are seeping into other elements of your life, as evidenced by the article. I think one big distinction a lot of people don't seem to be making is:

"No blacks"

is not the same as

"I've only ever dated white people, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to dating other people. I haven't been only looking for white people."

I mean hell, I even outlined in the OP not to post about feeling personally attacked and this thread is still getting it.

Uh, I am not sure what part of my post made you think I was feeling personally attacked, or if the last part of your post is even directed at me. (You didn't quote anything else, so it's hard to tell.)

As for the first paragraph re: ethics in interpersonal relationships, I don't disagree that a person saying "I will never have a relationship* with ____________ type of person" is an idiot. I *'ed relationship since I'm referring to both romantic and platonic relationships. I just took issue with the business comparison you originally made, given that interpersonal relationships aren't governed by law while business ones are. If you want to get into the ethics of it, you should probably go directly to that argument, rather than roundabout through a completely unrelated example. My opening sentence should make it clear I think people should have a wide variety of friends. I am, however, against forcing them to do so as how someone spends their time isn't something the government should be having any part in. Largely since I don't want to be forced to spend time with that sort of person any more than they want to spend time with the object of their disdain.
 

Necromanti

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I've seen a few instances of "no blacks"--though a lot less than I would have expected, so I guess it's not always explicitly stated--though I haven't seen any stating "no Asians". I've seen quite a few stating "Asians preferred", however. That probably varies by city as well.
 

AbsolutBro

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I mean, those two examples are more or less flip sides of the same coin. "I prefer X because <typically:stereotype> A" to "I do not prefer Y because <typically:stereotype> -A."

Except in the first I'm omitting an entire group.

In the second, I have a feature I prefer that is typically found on a type of person, but is still "all systems go" when found on "the not typical" (it's early and I can't think of how to write this) person.

To continue my redhead example, it is obviously most common in white women (~2-6% of the population), but is still found in just about any other race. I thus find myself more typically attracted to white women, but not ruling out non-white redheads. In fact, it doesn't "rule out" anyone where the first statement does. I can have a preference for redheads (I do) and still think Iman or Sara Martins are gorgeous (they are). The person in the first example would not.

Hopefully that's clearer.
 

M52B28

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I remember browsing OkCupid and coming across a black gal who's username was "IOnlyDateWhiteGuys"

I shook my head so hard, I nearly broke my neck.

White women do this covertly some times, but I come across a number of black women openly basically bragging about how they don't like black guys.

Being black, I just want to give up dating.


Had a friend say that he would date Beyonce, but would never date a black woman. This was the time where she had very light skin and hair.

I've also had aa friend straight up say he wouldn't date a black woman - ever. My buddy and I looked at him with a "why" face for a solid 10 seconds. He responded "I just don't like 'em." Racist fuck.
 
Jan 3, 2007
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I mean.. we can just drive racism underground..

"No (insert race here)" is just open racism.

Choosing to shut that race out of your possible dating realm without saying it yields the same result except that it's not explicitly stated. It's just people taking their racism underground.

I suppose the former is worse than the latter.
 
Feb 11, 2014
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Man, I've seen people say no-no-no to black people until they stumble upon one who is just drop dead gorgeous enough , or goes against their perceptions. Then its a rare, new and welcomed experience.

Then it's back to no-no-no again. Meanwhile they will give their preferred race tremendous leverage.
The nonono blacks til they find someone attractive and not know thier black. Then it's the Asian example in the op as thier response


Want to know a trick

Go people watching, you'll see most people the same skin tone and same race as thier partner in most cases. You'll rarely even see a tanned shite person with a non-tan one
 

Wolfe

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Dec 28, 2010
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What do I do if I'm open to dating anyone I'm attracted to, but I'm not attracted to a certain race for the most part?

Do you not see how that doesn't make sense?

How can you base your preference on something superficial that doesn't define a person or how they will physically look, the color of their skin notwithstanding?

If you saw a person you were physically attracted to, but then took that same person and made their skin a different shade (to whichever "race" you dislike when it comes to attraction) why would they be any less attractive? Not to mention things like race don't dictate how someones personality is going to be.

I totally understand having preferences but exclusion of a specific type of person based on an arbitrary trait that they have little to no control over is going a bit beyond preferences. I get thinking something like "eh I'm just not that attracted to asians" but how can you (i.e. anyone thinking along those lines), after reading this thread in particular, not look back at that statement and go "ok maybe that is a bit wrong."
 

The Maverick

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Racial preferences to the point of exclusion is rooted in racism. We can dance around it all day, but it is what it is.

What do I do if I'm open to dating anyone I'm attracted to, but I'm not attracted to a certain race for the most part?
You do whatever you want. This isn't about telling people what to do. It's exploring why they make the choices that they do.
 

Monster Zero

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I find it off that a person who is attracted to women can dismiss a whole pool of them based just off their race. When I hear "I'm not attracted to black women" I always get confused. There are so many different types of black women, how do you know you're not attracted to any of them.
 

Wolfe

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I find it off that a person who is attracted to women can dismiss a whole pool of them based just off their race. When I hear "I'm not attracted to black women" I always get confused. There are so many different types of black women, how do you know you're not attracted to any of them.

"I'm attracted to human females, but only the ones that have a particular shade of pigment."
 
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