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Shadow of Mordors true ending - Grinding or Lootboxes

Chairmanchuck

Member
Jun 18, 2011
14,205
0
680
Polygon review:
However, Shadow Wars is spoiled by two major issues.

First, it's not just postgame content. While the main plot of Shadow of War wraps up in relatively tidy fashion before act four begins, Monolith has confirmed that there is a ”true ending" hidden behind Shadow Wars. I love the idea of offering dozens of hours of grindy yet fun content for players who really adore this game to sink their teeth into. But that works better as an option rather than a looming obligation for completionists. Having the game's real finale locked away behind those dozens of hours — hours that, while fun, are devoid of story missions, side quests, cutscenes or other distractions that help mix up the pace — is a disappointment.

When you run out of in-game money, you have two choices: Make a huge time investment by hunting down orcs in your game world and earning chests via vendetta missions, or spend some real money to get the more powerful orcs you need now. Does the game ever force you to spend money? No. I'm sure you can get to the end of Shadow Wars without spending a dime, as long as you're patient and persistent. But locking progress through this mode (and, again, toward the game's true ending) behind either spending more money or doing tons of tedious busywork feels at least greedy if not predatory.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/5/16428308/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-review
Gamespot:

In the game's actual final act, you cycle through the four fortresses you explored previously for a total of 20 more defending siege battles. If you haven't upgraded the Orcs you met early in the game--and up until this point, there was no reason to--you have to replace and upgrade your entire retinue of Orcs to match this more powerful invading force. The enemies you face level up with each encounter, so you're also forced into upgrading each castle over and over again, either by building up your current Orc army or finding new fighters and replacing the old. This Sisyphean quest has no corresponding significant characters to keep you company or explain why it's important to tackle the defense missions in the order you do. It's not even clear, exactly, why you want to do them at all.

More than once I felt like giving up on this quest thinking I'd stumbled onto some optional side content that was clearly only made for obsessed completionists. But enduring on, I found that finishing every stage unlocks the final cutscene and credits. It did not feel worth it.

https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-review/1900-6416783/
Gamesradar article on how you get the legendary orcs without buying Lootboxes

Now all you have to do is die. That sounds easier than it actually is because your objective is to be killed by a particular kind of Orc. You rarely encounter lone Orcs, so it's easy to accidentally have the wrong one make the killing blow. You can always try over though, so don't get discouraged if you end up with a dud.

Once the Orc of your choice kills you, it's in the hands of the Random Numbers Generator. First, there's a good chance the Orc that took you out will spawn as just a regular old Orc Captain. Secondly, if the Orc in promoted in a region with no empty spots for new Orcs, they'll duel someone for their place. This can either end up in your brand-new dream Orc being killed, or one of your other favorite Orcs in the region being murdered.

However, if everything goes right, and you've cleared out a spot in advance for your new Orc, you can get an Epic or Legendary Orc Captain to spawn precisely how you want them to be. This method is incredibly frustrating, but it's the only way to exert any influence over what kind of Orcs spawn.

http://www.gamesradar.com/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-epic-and-legendary-orcs-guide/
Waypoint:

Does the game ever force you to spend money? No. I'm sure you can get to the end of Shadow Wars without spending a dime, as long as you're patient and persistent. But locking progress through this mode (and, again, toward the game's true ending) behind either spending more money or doing tons of tedious busywork feels at least greedy if not predatory."

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/8x8bpv/shadow-of-war-and-forza-7-are-poisoning-the-concept-of-loot-boxes?utm_source=wptwitterus

Eurogamer comment by someone who apparently played it, so take that with a grain of salt:

As I may have played more of this than Johnny, a word of warning about the microtransactions: if you want to complete the endgame and see the *true* ending, be prepared to buy the XP boosts from the store while you're playing the campaign or face a 40-50 hour grind. I finished the story in about 15 hours (and agree that it's awful), and have been grinding for 8 hours a day for the past four days just to level up enough to finish the "Shadow of War" endgame content, and it is indescribably tedious.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
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Implying no game in the history of video games ever had you grind for the true ending.


Gotta get some last minute outrage in before the game comes out and everyone moves onto the next big outrage.
 

ChaosSmurf

Member
Jul 24, 2015
142
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BREAKING: Guy who hasn't played the game and knows nothing about how reviewing games works has a lot of thoughts on game and how it was reviewed.

EDIT: hey the OP got changed, hooray
 

jsnepo

Member
Dec 5, 2008
3,948
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725
WTF. Just watched the reviews of IGN and Gamespot and this was not mentioned at all. IGN even said that lootboxes can be ignored.
 
I'm not entirely sure how it works, but if you preorder it you get something called the "Legendary Champions War Party."

Four mighty Champions have been sent to battle in the Arena to earn their place in your Army.

Dark Assassin - A deadly killer striking from the shadows
Feral Beastmaster - A mounted frenzy of fangs
Warmonger Commander - Leading from the front lines
Machine Destroyer - A living battering ram
Wonder if those are good enough for whatever Act IV requires?
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Jul 23, 2010
31,050
12
720
www.metal-archives.com
Implying no game in the history of video games ever had you grind for the true ending.
Uh... what modern (post-8 bit era) game does this?

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but if you preorder it you get something called the "Legendary Champions War Party."



Wonder if those are good enough for whatever Act IV requires?
Highly doubtful. The Gamespot review says you need to upgrade/level up your orcs (which you have no incentive of doing during the main game) for the final missions. Pre-order bonuses are surely not end-game viable.
 

2blackcats

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May 6, 2014
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the reviews said but I was under the impression you had to dominate the boss Orcs.

That will take longer without getting then from paid loot boxes but I remember doing this at the end of the first one too.

Not to sure if I had to or not.
 

SuperBanana

Banned
May 22, 2015
2,514
0
0
I'll wait for GiantBomb to review it or give their impressions. They give a pretty balanced opinion on loot boxes and if they hate it I'll skip it.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Jul 19, 2011
23,084
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Arkham Knight's ending... Now with microtransactions!

I can't say I'm shocked. I figured something like this would happen after the fortresses mechanic was announced
 

Gurish

Member
Aug 4, 2013
5,834
3
380
If true than this is shameful, reviewers are too "kind" to give such shit a pass, I care about "true ending" stuff and my motivation now to ever play this game is pretty much zero.
 

EpicBox

Member
Mar 18, 2015
518
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Implying no game in the history of video games ever had you grind for the true ending.


Gotta get some last minute outrage in before the game comes out and everyone moves onto the next big outrage.
When the grinding has been put there solely for the purposes of tempting you into spending money - in a game you already paid for - that's a big problem.
 

Veon

Neo Member
Sep 20, 2017
127
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0
All I going to say is "We should just get rid of all forms of micro-transactions not just a form of them, all of them".

Could you link to the actual reviews instead of this guy?
This fellow is that TB guy, correct?

EDIT: It is TotalBiscuit, I just didn't see his twitter name.
 

Mass Effect

Member
Apr 24, 2011
11,120
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While I wouldn't be surprised that this is completely true, can we get some more detail on how this works? Maybe a link to those specific reviews that called it out?

Either way, this is our loot box future, people. This will happen more and more.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
10,296
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535
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When the grinding has only been put there to tempt you into spending money - in a game you already paid for - that's a big problem.
So you've never run out of resources or cash in games which doesn't have loot boxes?
 
Aug 15, 2017
859
0
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Implying no game in the history of video games ever had you grind for the true ending.


Gotta get some last minute outrage in before the game comes out and everyone moves onto the next big outrage.
I don't remember too many SNES/N64/PS1/PS2/GC/Wii games having a "give us more money to get past the boring part" option so maybe that's the point I dunno? Or was there a real money economy system in Chrono Trigger I can't remember it's been a couple of months since I played it last.
 

Mushroomer25

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Jan 5, 2012
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All I going to say is "We should just get rid of all forms of micro-transactions not just a form of them, all of them".



This fellow is that TB guy, correct?
What exactly is the line for microtransactions, though? Is it immoral for me to pay $3 for a new song in Rock Band?

I think randomized loot boxes need to be more closely regulated by platform holders, but just saying 'no microtransactions' isn't really a solution.
 

theaface

Member
Feb 18, 2013
2,915
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London, UK
They're already out, and largely positive.

Also, as always, totalbiscuit is being misleading here.
Implying no game in the history of video games ever had you grind for the true ending.


Gotta get some last minute outrage in before the game comes out and everyone moves onto the next big outrage.
BREAKING: Guy who hasn't played the game and knows nothing about how reviewing games works has a lot of thoughts on game and how it was reviewed.
Can I just clarify, have you guys played and completed the game and can confirm whether or not TB is wrong here? Or are you doing the exact thing you're accusing him of?
 

Brat-Sampson

Member
Dec 22, 2015
404
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Sounds from the Polygon review that you can basically finish the game just fine, but there's 'post-game' (along with it's own final final ending) which is where the grind kicks in and the lootboxes can really help things shift along. It reads almost similarly to how MGSV had FoBs as the 'real endgame' where you could grind those for aaaages, and there's even a hidden ending there too, albeit one that's unlikely to ever be achieved by anyone.

Of course, don't forget you can't just buy what you need even, no, you have to pay for a chance to win something you need, which could be really helpful or could not.

Yeah, I'll probably skip this entirely. The game I mean.
 

OldMuffin

Member
Feb 22, 2015
295
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0
If this is indeed true, then this industry is truely fucked. Not only is wb screwing us over, but now it seems the games media can be trusted even less than it was previously.... and friends were calling me crazy when I was complaining about the micro transactions in destiny 2 and such, whose the crazy person now?
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Feb 24, 2013
10,296
2
535
Toronto
I don't remember too many SNES/N64/PS1/PS2/GC/Wii games having a "give us more money to get past the boring part" option so maybe that's the point I dunno? Or was there a real money economy system in Chrono Trigger I can't remember it's been a couple of months since I played it last.
So what you're saying is I can't see the secret ending without spending real money on loot boxes?

Based on all the reviews I can tell you that's total and utter bullshit.
 

joecanada

Member
Nov 15, 2013
5,887
1
390
what we need for all these cases is hard facts. For example I think it was Forza 5 where they added the currency you needed for certain cars. there was a published article from a games site which calculated exactly how much you would need to buy all the cars and it was something like

"300 hours needed to buy x cars" ... this is what we need for all these shitty MT... if they put them in the game I want to know exactly how much grinding I'm going to need..... if it's like 20 hours just to get a certain ending then forget that game altogether.
 
Oct 26, 2009
3,647
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From Gamestop review
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-review/1900-6416783/

In the game's actual final act, you cycle through the four fortresses you explored previously for a total of 20 more defending siege battles. If you haven't upgraded the Orcs you met early in the game--and up until this point, there was no reason to--you have to replace and upgrade your entire retinue of Orcs to match this more powerful invading force. The enemies you face level up with each encounter, so you're also forced into upgrading each castle over and over again, either by building up your current Orc army or finding new fighters and replacing the old. This Sisyphean quest has no corresponding significant characters to keep you company or explain why it's important to tackle the defense missions in the order you do. It's not even clear, exactly, why you want to do them at all.

More than once I felt like giving up on this quest thinking I'd stumbled onto some optional side content that was clearly only made for obsessed completionists. But enduring on, I found that finishing every stage unlocks the final cutscene and credits. It did not feel worth it.

It's an entire section that should have been cut or severely truncated, and playing through the repetitious levels felt like padding meant only to make the game last longer. But although the game's final act is the most egregious, there are several other systems that Shadow of War fails to justify.
Polygon Review https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/5/16428308/middle-earth-shadow-of-war-review

However, Shadow Wars is spoiled by two major issues.

SHADOW WARS WORKS BETTER AS AN OPTION RATHER THAN A LOOMING OBLIGATION FOR COMPLETIONISTS
First, it's not just postgame content. While the main plot of Shadow of War wraps up in relatively tidy fashion before act four begins, Monolith has confirmed that there is a ”true ending" hidden behind Shadow Wars. I love the idea of offering dozens of hours of grindy yet fun content for players who really adore this game to sink their teeth into. But that works better as an option rather than a looming obligation for completionists. Having the game's real finale locked away behind those dozens of hours — hours that, while fun, are devoid of story missions, side quests, cutscenes or other distractions that help mix up the pace — is a disappointment.
In Shadow Wars, however, things get more complicated. With all other side content drained, the only thing left to do is to play fortress defense missions (and collect more orcs to help with more fortress defense missions). Finding powerful orcs becomes the be-all, end-all focus of the game, and the easiest way to find powerful orcs is, cynically, to purchase them. The cheapest chest on the marketplace (which offers the barest guarantees on the quality of allies you unlock) can be purchased using the in-game money Talion picks up. That money also buys upgrades to your fortresses, though, and between the two I spent all 60,000 or 70,000 coins I had gathered over the course of the campaign in a few hours.

When you run out of in-game money, you have two choices: Make a huge time investment by hunting down orcs in your game world and earning chests via vendetta missions, or spend some real money to get the more powerful orcs you need now. Does the game ever force you to spend money? No. I'm sure you can get to the end of Shadow Wars without spending a dime, as long as you're patient and persistent. But locking progress through this mode (and, again, toward the game's true ending) behind either spending more money or doing tons of tedious busywork feels at least greedy if not predatory.

The true ending is basically a grind
 

d9b

Banned
Nov 21, 2013
3,387
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0
"Legendary orcs are only available with paid loot boxes"

Loool! Fuck WB!
 

weemaster

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Jul 5, 2014
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Shouldn't reviews be informing the consumer of the product of such things?
It's times like these that make me wonder "who are these outlets writing for?"
 

Mushroomer25

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Jan 5, 2012
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the reviews said but I was under the impression you had to dominate the boss Orcs.

That will take longer without getting then from paid loot boxes but I remember doing this at the end of the first one too.

Not to sure if I had to or not.
So to be clear, the last act of the game requires you to have Legendary orcs in your party. These can either be taken from boss battles through domination - or randomly scored through loot boxes. The boxes can be grinded out through game play, or bought directly with cash.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Mar 18, 2015
23,759
1
0
What exactly is the line for microtransactions, though? Is it immoral for me to pay $3 for a new song in Rock Band?

I think randomized loot boxes need to be more closely regulated by platform holders, but just saying 'no microtransactions' isn't really a solution.
Unless a Government does it, all platform holders wont do it, leading to more problems
 

N7.Angel

Member
Jul 14, 2015
1,344
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If true, I want the press to demolish the game in every way possible, like the worst metacritic/open critic ever for a AAA game.