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Shadow of the Colossus (PS4) new trailer from TGS

Randomizer

Member
That ethereal haze and general art style of Ueda's games must be hard to replicate. I've never seen any other games that look anything like Team Ico games.
 

Persona7

Banned
Please look at these pictures






and tell me it's nostalgia why this is getting criticized.

 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
quite possibly. but - he didn't! & the results, i'd say, have a beauty of their own...
He didn't specifically because of tech tho....yes the older game looks gorgeous but a lot of aspects don't hold up. The structures in the remaster look a lot more like those in the last guardian for instance

 
I was underwhelmed by the visuals when I saw the YT trailer.

Thankfully it's just shitty video quality, gamersyde version looks pretty good.
 

A-V-B

Member
That ethereal haze and general art style of Ueda's games must be hard to replicate. I've never seen any other games that look anything like Team Ico games.

It probably takes a lot of specificity.

"Not quite, more in this direction. No, more. Almost... Now make it like this. Yeah, it feels weird now, but I know where this ends up so keep going."
 

uocooper

Member
I came back to this game a number of times and never made it past the first colossus. People seem so hyped about it I kept wanting to give it another go but I never did figure out how to take down the first one and eventually gave up. I still feel shame about this.
 

guyssorry

Member
I came back to this game a number of times and never made it past the first colossus. People seem so hyped about it I kept wanting to give it another go but I never did figure out how to take down the first one and eventually gave up. I still feel shame about this.

Don't feel ashamed. It's a very puzzle-y game, in a way. As for the first boss, my only advice is to climb, climb, climb. I highly recommend giving it another shot. It's a beautiful, creative, and very atmospheric game (plus excellent music!).
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
One thing I've noticed: we've only seen footage of the colossus fights and some of the cut scenes. We haven't seen any footage of traversal throughout the world, which I'm interested in seeing too. A big part of the SOTC is that it's set in a place that's mostly empty, but also vast (for a PS2 game). I want to see what more of the backdrops and landscapes look like on PS4.
 
One thing I've noticed: we've only seen footage of the colossus fights and some of the cut scenes. We haven't seen any footage of traversal throughout the world, which I'm interested in seeing too. A big part of the SOTC is that it's set in a place that's mostly empty, but also vast (for a PS2 game). I want to see what more of the backdrops and landscapes look like on PS4.

I'm curious about horse animations and physics. They were a little unresponsive on purpose in the original game so I wonder if they'll keep that feel or tighten it up
 
i had almost no qualms with the E3 version. i do feel like they took a step in the wrong direction. its too clear. it doesn't have to have a shit ton of haze, fog and bloom but the severe lack of it completely changes the tone of some scenes. I think the E3 version had a good balance.

and a big thing i noticed is that motion blur seems to be completely absent in the TGS trailer. and that is a big no-no imo
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I'm curious about horse animations and physics. They were a little unresponsive on purpose in the original game so I wonder if they'll keep that feel or tighten it up

The colossi animations in the videos so far to me look identical to the original game, but I haven't played SOTC in a while.

The remake may actually be using more of the original game's code/assets than we realize. It may even be more of a Halo Anniversary-type thing where it's just new assets put on top of the actual original game.
 
Art style and atmosphere is a lot harder to remaster compare to graphics, models, textures and animations.

Some people just don't see it, let alone recreate it, it' not their fault, not everyone has the same artistic talent.

Like I said before, Blueprint might be a bunch of really talented technicians that can recreate some really good rock textures and put it into a really old game, but that doesn't mean they have the artistic talent to recreate the art style and atmosphere of the original, at best they can only mimic it.

Not saying Blueprint have no artist, I am just saying the artist in Blueprint might not be talented enough to mimic Ueda's vision.

Unless the original director is directly involved in the development, this is usually what you will get in a ''remake'' or ''remaster''.



Nothing but a shell of its former self, but hey, it sure looks ''improved''.
 

Neith

Banned
Art style and atmosphere is a lot harder to remaster compare to graphics, models, textures and animations.

Some people just don't see it, let alone recreate it, it' not their fault, not everyone has the same artistic talent.

Like I said before, Blueprint might be a bunch of really talented technicians that can recreate some really good rock textures and put it into a really old game, but that doesn't mean they have the artistic talent to recreate the art style and atmosphere of the original, at best they can only mimic it.

Not saying Blueprint have no artist, I am just saying the artist in Blueprint might not be talented enough to mimic Ueda's vision.

Unless the original director is directly involved in the development, this is usually what you will get in a ''remake'' or ''remaster''.



Nothing but a shell of its former self, but hey, it sure looks ''improved''.

Yeah, let's wait for the finished game. There are many dated aspects to the originals. Acting like they are perfect is a bit much.
 
Yeah, let's wait for the finished game. There are many dated aspects to the originals. Acting like they are perfect is a bit much.

No one said the original is perfect, but there are a lot of very unique things about it, especially the art direction.

I never played SotC until 2014, so I am not blinded by nostalgic goggles.

It's true that the game really has something to it, I still remember I was amazed by its art direction and atmosphere, I played the PS2 version too which looks like shit and runs like shit from a tech standpoint but everytime I play the game I just feel like I was being sucked into a different world, a living reality that actually exists.

I am no artist, but I am a art lover, whether the art direction in SotC is really amazing or just overrated is entirely subjective, but there's one thing I can be sure of, it is very strong and inspired.

''Whoever created this must have seen or dreamt some incredible stuff.'' is what I said to myself when I first played ICO and SotC, back then I don't even know who the hell Ueda is.

This makes me wonder how a Bloodborne remake would be received if the chromatic aberration were to be removed, and it lost a lot of the griminess/grotesqueness introduced by the less than ideal image quality.

Unless Miyazaki is involved I don't think the atmosphere will be nearly as good, it's impossible to just ''update'' a game without affecting the quality of atmosphere and art direction.

Remaking a game is a lot more complex than just ''Okay team, now let's increase the graphic and texture to +10, lighting to +5, frame rate doubles and resolution increase to 1440p and NOT touching the rest. That's it! PERFECT!''

Unless the team ''gets it'' and perfectly understands the direction behind the game (ex: what color to use, what contrast to use, what kind of feeling that object has to emit etc.) it's gonna be HARD.



I recall arguing that it lost some of its "otherworldliness" in the recreation.

I feel the same way.
 
This makes me wonder how a Bloodborne remake would be received if the chromatic aberration were to be removed, and it lost a lot of the griminess/grotesqueness introduced by the less than ideal image quality.


Edit: Wait, I just remembered an old thread about the aforementioned scenario!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1216041

EA DICE artist recreation in UE4:



Bloodborne:



I recall arguing that it lost some of its "otherworldliness" in the recreation.
 

Shin-Ra

Junior Member
— Motion Blur

There's motion blur in the TGS trailer but it seems to require a higher velocity to start showing. Due to parallax perspective, it's most commonly visible close to the camera.

Examples from the first few scenes: Agro's ear and Wanda's leg passing at the very start, violent camera shake during the wall break and pieces falling closer to the camera, Wanda's sword-holding arm swinging on the approach to Valus.

Bluepoint could satisfy most players by including three motion blur options (Nathan Drake Collection had just on/off) for classic [high], [natural] and [off].

— Cape Flaps

Wanda's cape still flaps too stiffly when running but there's demonstrably cape-ability for more flexible flapping!



Maybe the force of Wanda running is acting against the virtual air turbulence, pulling it too flat.

I don't know if the pieces hanging from Wanda's lower belt are supposed to be soft or hard, but the middle three are stuck pointing outward instead of hanging like the others. I'm going to be really picky and say the wrinkles on Wanda's shorts should be placed and shaped according to the curvature of his arse.
 

Option-

Member
Best run cycle ever


Honestly though, Wander's stride has a certain personality, just like Ico's and the Boy's from TLG.

this is actually the healthy way to run according to marathon runners (except for the heel to toe motion of the foot, which is done conversly)
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
That ethereal haze and general art style of Ueda's games must be hard to replicate. I've never seen any other games that look anything like Team Ico games.

Nier's monochromatic art style and reliance on bloom was inspired by ICO's own art style according to Yoko Taro, due to his reverence for the original ICO game. And you can see that even in Automata
 

jett

D-Member
— Motion Blur

There's motion blur in the TGS trailer but it seems to require a higher velocity to start showing. Due to parallax perspective, it's most commonly visible close to the camera.

Examples from the first few scenes: Agro's ear and Wanda's leg passing at the very start, violent camera shake during the wall break and pieces falling closer to the camera, Wanda's sword-holding arm swinging on the approach to Valus.

Bluepoint could satisfy most players by including three motion blur options (Nathan Drake Collection had just on/off) for classic [high], [natural] and [off].

— Cape Flaps

Wanda's cape still flaps too stiffly when running but there's demonstrably cape-ability for more flexible flapping!



Maybe the force of Wanda running is acting against the virtual air turbulence, pulling it too flat.

I don't know if the pieces hanging from Wanda's lower belt are supposed to be soft or hard, but the middle three are stuck pointing outward instead of hanging like the others. I'm going to be really picky and say the wrinkles on Wanda's shorts should be placed and shaped according to the curvature of his arse.

That's actually interesting. The cape might indeed be buggy. When Wander run it def looks too stiff for my liking.

Best run cycle ever


Honestly though, Wander's stride has a certain personality, just like Ico's and the Boy's from TLG.

this is actually the healthy way to run according to marathon runners (except for the heel to toe motion of the foot, which is done conversly)

best run cycle ever just keeps on getting better.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
this is actually the healthy way to run according to marathon runners (except for the heel to toe motion of the foot, which is done conversly)
I was on the track team for years and I was just in a marathon a few months ago. It's absolutely not normal or more efficient to run the way Wander does. First of all the arm flailing side to side would tire a person out quickly so that's a big no no, plus the long leg strides are also a big no no.
 
Oof, I didn't really consciously realize it while watching the trailer but those comparison shots are clear to me. The more stark, clean style really fails to capture some of the charm of the original.

Won't change that the game is great, though.
 
...Blueprint
... Blueprint ... Blueprint ...


It’s hard enough to take this post seriously with that posted comparison - I can’t actually imagine a worse illustration of Bluepoint’s remastering job - but much harder given you can’t even get the studios name right through the entire thread.
 
Again, people are failing to realize that this should never ever attempt to replace or recreate the original 1:1. You can't expect a team to redo what Ueda couldn't do on decades old hardware AND add in the mystifying and atmospheric effects meant to mask shortcomings (unless they were just the only available techiques at the time).

No. That tarnishes or takes away from Ueda's vision unless he does it himself.

So instead, a new take is far more respectful and more worthy of development. Why bother doing it if it's going to be 1:1 and why take that aspect away from the original?
 

jett

D-Member
Again, people are failing to realize that this should never ever attempt to replace or recreate the original 1:1. You can't expect a team to redo what Ueda couldn't do on decades old hardware AND add in the mystifying and atmospheric effects meant to mask shortcomings (unless they were just the only available techiques at the time).

No. That tarnishes or takes away from Ueda's vision unless he does it himself.

So instead, a new take is far more respectful and more worthy of development. Why bother doing it if it's going to be 1:1 and why take that aspect away from the original?

But this doesn't look like a new take at all but a re-creation that is reverentially faithful in parts to the original and in others weirdly askew.
 
But this doesn't look like a new take at all but a re-creation that is reverentially faithful in parts to the original and in others weirdly askew.
It's a new take in that its visual fidelity and image quality suit the generation more than the ethereal/blurry/mystical look of the original.

Similar to The Last Guardian.
 

A-V-B

Member
It's a new take in that its visual fidelity and image quality suit the generation more than the ethereal/blurry/mystical look of the original.

Similar to The Last Guardian.

Last Guardian was also ethereal. Higher detail, absolutely (I wish I could put all those high res stone designs on display somewhere) but it didn't lose Ueda's artistic touch at all. It was still drenched in really bright sunlit surfaces, weird crumbling architecture, gorgeous and dreamlike depictions of nature, and thick atmospheric effects.
 

Yukinari

Member
This makes me wonder how a Bloodborne remake would be received if the chromatic aberration were to be removed, and it lost a lot of the griminess/grotesqueness introduced by the less than ideal image quality..

A majority of the time i absolutely hate chromatic aberration in games, even for something i want to buy like Cuphead.
 

jett

D-Member
It's a new take in that its visual fidelity and image quality suit the generation more than the ethereal/blurry/mystical look of the original.

Similar to The Last Guardian.

I disagree. TLG clearly looks like the natural aesthetic follow-up of ICO and SotC, unlike this remake.

This remake reminds me more of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. Essentially the same game rendered at higher detail, but they changed its color palette completely among other artistic changes.

 
I disagree. TLG clearly looks like the natural aesthetic follow-up of ICO and SotC, unlike this remake.

This remake reminds me more of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. Essentially the same game rendered at higher detail, but they changed its color palette completely among other artistic changes.
On one hand, you have a reason and justification to own and play both. As I've said, I don't want something that does everything better than the original. I'll take the cg or live action remake to go along with my hand drawn or practical effect classic.

Not something that aims to overshadow the original to the point of making it unnecessary and irrelevant.

And I've said in previous threads, it's far more exciting viewing this as the "actual" scenery Ueda could have visited and put to canvas. And it's like playing the game for the first time again, something I've yearned for since my first completion way way back. Even the PS3 remaster didn't quite capture that because essentially, I was playing the same game as I remembered it despite it looking and performing a bit better.
 

jett

D-Member
On one hand, you have a reason and justification to own and play both. As I've said, I don't want something that does everything better than the original. I'll take the cg or live action remake to go along with my hand drawn or practical effect classic.

Not something that aims to overshadow the original to the point of making it unnecessary and irrelevant.

And I've said in previous threads, it's far more exciting viewing this as the "actual" scenery Ueda could have visited and put to canvas. And it's like playing the game for the first time again, something I've yearned for since my first completion way way back. Even the PS3 remaster didn't quite capture that because essentially, I was playing the same game as I remembered it despite it looking and performing a bit better.

I don't understand how can anyone view this in that light when Ueda isn't involved.

Personally, the PS3 remaster didn't capture the original feeling because BluePoint fucked up and released the game with borked grip physics. Let's hope that doesn't happen again.
 
I don't understand how can anyone view this in that light when Ueda isn't involved.

Personally, the PS3 remaster didn't capture the original feeling because BluePoint fucked up and released the game with borked grip physics. Let's hope that doesn't happen again.
I think it may have come across wrong.

(I remember posting this in another thread after e3)


What's on the canvas is the original game. The "actual scenery" is the PS4 game. I much rather this idea than someone trying to redo and replace the actual painting.

And yes, the grip stuff did suck, but that's not what I meant when referring to the overall feeling/atmosphere of the original.
 

A-V-B

Member
I think it may have come across wrong.

(I remember posting this in another thread after e3)


What's on the canvas is the original game. The "actual scenery" is the PS4 game. I much rather this idea than someone trying to redo and replace the actual painting.

But they're both paintings. Come on.
 

Neith

Banned
Best run cycle ever


Honestly though, Wander's stride has a certain personality, just like Ico's and the Boy's from TLG.

this is actually the healthy way to run according to marathon runners (except for the heel to toe motion of the foot, which is done conversly)

Honestly, we've resorted to outright lying about running animations to prove that the original does it best. OKAY guys.

That is no way whatsoever looks natural. It looks horribly animated is what it looks like.

I disagree. TLG clearly looks like the natural aesthetic follow-up of ICO and SotC, unlike this remake.

This remake reminds me more of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. Essentially the same game rendered at higher detail, but they changed its color palette completely among other artistic changes.

There barely any detail whatsoever in the N64 game. I'm not sure what you want them to do. Things are going to change people. Maybe you just mean that really bright green? I guess. But it's just a 3DS. It's power is shit too, so they really couldn't do all that much. I guess they could have dimmed the colors a bit.
 
But they're both paintings. Come on.
...just like they're both games. The point should still be clear. (Edit: I thought my quotes around "actual scenery" was enough)

It's like when the folks who designed Godzilla 2014, they wanted it to feel like the "real animal" that the original creators recreated as a rubber suit based on eye-witness accounts. They're both movie magic monsters, but I understand the sentiment.
 

Neith

Banned
Honestly, Bluepoint needs to keep doing what they are doing. Take notes on what people think, but absolutely do not listen to the crazy fanboys.

Jesus, that running animation if awful.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Honestly, we've resorted to outright lying about running animations to prove that the original does it best. OKAY guys.

That is no way whatsoever looks natural. It looks horribly animated is what it looks like.
That new one tho:



Straight up perfection. It's like a perfect representation of how it should've looked in the original.
 

tesqui

Member
Jesus some of you are crazy. It's like if there's any change it's automatically deemed worse looking. It's like someone saying that the mansion in the remake of Resident Evil looks way too dirty. "I liked it better when it was cleaner on PS1"

This thing is a remake not an HD remaster.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Can't wait to play this beauty for the first time. It looks gorgeous and I'm interested in why I have to kill these creatures. Come on May release date baby!(guess work)
You've never played SOTC and don't know the reason? Ah shit you're in for a treat,
 
I think he knows. Or else he plays every video game and is curious about why he has to kill stuff.
I mean yes generally there's a reason why you're killing something in a video game. From what I've seen there's only this boy and these big titans. So no I don't know why he's killing them
 
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