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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot ‘em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread

Mr.McFist

Member
Dec 24, 2013
148
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Worth it for $2? I'd assume so!
I can tell you that Super Galaxy Squadron is super disappointing - it is very boring and way too easy. The bundle is worth it alone for Don'Yoku though for me - it has been on my wishlist since release.
 

Fugu

Member
Jan 25, 2009
7,831
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This genre is woefully missing from my gaming repertoire; I think the only SHMUPs I have beaten are Truxton and Jamestown that was many years ago. I own a handful of them however and I'm making it my mission to get into at least one of them.

I've heard good things about Gradius V (including what's in the OP) and I can pick it up for a reasonable price. Is this a good springboard? What are other good recommendations?
 

Rayge

Member
Jan 22, 2011
10,429
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610
North Carolina
I actually had no idea about this update - judging by the trailer it looks to be a huge improvement on the original release. Thanks for the heads up.
I grabbed this earlier for Super Galaxy Squadron, which has a free update underway.
Got Super Galaxy Squadron, thanks!
I already own Don Yoku and Super Galaxy Squadron. So here are the keys to whoever wants them. First come, first serve. I'm going to have to update my STEAM review when they finish.
I can tell you that Super Galaxy Squadron is super disappointing - it is very boring and way too easy. The bundle is worth it alone for Don'Yoku though for me - it has been on my wishlist since release.
Bros... I am not shitting you, play this beta. Holy shit! Super Galaxy Squadron got improved heavily. Still has a bit to go, but they are heading in a damn good direction.

Type:
tunnelsnakesrule

Into the beta tab on SGS. It's still early, but damn. This is the game it should have been. If you didn't own it before you better jump on it now at this cheap price and pick up a few other games as well. With the beta SGS is easily the best game in the bundle now.
 

ElTopo

Banned
Apr 9, 2014
6,143
0
0
NY
I forgot to subscribe to this thread. I've always enjoyed Shmups but it's not a genre I enjoy as much as Run 'N Gun, or oldschool Beat 'em Ups, or Fighting Games. Mainly because I feel that Shmups lack diversity. I guess there's only so many powerups and gimmicks one can think of in comparison to the genres I mentioned. And I don't really enjoy the Bullet Hell titles too much.

What are your favorite Shmups per console?

For me:

NES:

Abadox
Gradius 2
Cross Fire
SCAT (what an unfortunate title)
Lifeforce

Genesis:

Elemental Master
Thunder Force 4
Bio-Ship Paladin
Galaxy Force 2

SNES:

R-Type 3
 

PantsuJo

Member
Jun 19, 2015
4,077
1
0
Konami strikes again.

I just realized, even though I have the game downloaded... I never bought the DLC character.
I'm thinking about the future of Konami through PC and mobile markets... Maybe we can expect some sort of release on Steam or android/iOS one day. I love the idea of Konami shooters on my PC.
But I have little faith in Konami.. Very little faith.
 

Remembrance

Member
May 5, 2014
3,969
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Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
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This genre is woefully missing from my gaming repertoire; I think the only SHMUPs I have beaten are Truxton and Jamestown that was many years ago. I own a handful of them however and I'm making it my mission to get into at least one of them.

I've heard good things about Gradius V (including what's in the OP) and I can pick it up for a reasonable price. Is this a good springboard? What are other good recommendations?
It's been a while since I've played it, but Gradius V is a great game. Not a bad purchase in any context. It's not quite as lean as most of the great arcade games in the genre (a full playthrough is an hour, which means twice as long single credit clear attempts when compared to a lot of shooters), but it's still very recommended.

Espgaluda is my number one suggestion to those new to trying to clear games in the genre. It's a wonderful game, mostly easy (save the final boss) but never to the point where it feels trivial, with fantastic aesthetics and a cool and unique scoring system to toy with. There's a great PS2 port and the game is pretty well-emulated in MAME.

DoDonPachi is iconic and great and actually probably easier for a first loop clear. PS1, Saturn, MAME.

The modern Mushihimesama series ports are great starting points, too, with both games having three well-balanced game modes selectable in their original arcade form. A lot of people consider the second game, Mushihimesama Futari, to be the best in the genre. The first game has a bad PS2 port, an excellent Japan-only region locked 360 port, and an upcoming Steam release this Winter (!). The second game is region free on 360.

I usually suggest Cave games, lol. They're more accessible than many may think, and every one of their arcade releases is top-tier.
 
Oct 19, 2011
1,728
2
480
It's been a while since I've played it, but Gradius V is a great game. Not a bad purchase in any context. It's not quite as lean as most of the great arcade games in the genre (a full playthrough is an hour, which means twice as long single credit clear attempts when compared to a lot of shooters), but it's still very recommended.

Espgaluda is my number one suggestion to those new to trying to clear games in the genre. It's a wonderful game, mostly easy (save the final boss) but never to the point where it feels trivial, with fantastic aesthetics and a cool and unique scoring system to toy with. There's a great PS2 port and the game is pretty well-emulated in MAME.

DoDonPachi is iconic and great and actually probably easier for a first loop clear. PS1, Saturn, MAME.

The modern Mushihimesama series ports are great starting points, too, with both games having three well-balanced game modes selectable in their original arcade form. A lot of people consider the second game, Mushihimesama Futari, to be the best in the genre. The first game has a bad PS2 port, an excellent Japan-only region locked 360 port, and an upcoming Steam release this Winter (!). The second game is region free on 360.

I usually suggest Cave games, lol. They're more accessible than many may think, and every one of their arcade releases is top-tier.
I'll echo Gradius V...that is a fantastic game. Treasure developed it, if memory serves, and I personally like it better than Ikaruga.
The asteroid field boss is a damn cheater.

I was thinking about Trouble Witches Neo the other day...hoping that it gets a Steam release (Strania as well). I'd really like to be able to retire my 360, and its a lot of the Shoot'em'ups, XBLA games, and XBLA indies that prevents me from doing that.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
Doesn't sound that crazy to me. Remember when skullgirls broke down how much it costs to add a single character to a fighting game on a shoestring budget and everyone lost their minds about how there is no way it costs that much? If fans controlled the budget they'd have you believe you could build an MMO on 58 cents and a pack of gum.

Not to mention fees and backer rewards eat into a huge chunk of the goal. If I recall correctly the Double Fine Adventure had nearly $1 million of its budget go to fees/rewards.
 
So I've been messing around with the games from that recent Indiegala bundle.

Super Galaxy Squadron is really easy yeah, but it looks well-made and is fun. The beta is a substantial improvement in terms of difficulty/balancing but only 2 stages are complete. Oh well, I'm sure it'll be just great when it's finished.

Diadra Empty is fairly typical of a Rockin' Android release. It's got a dozen different sub-systems going on at once. The lack of joystick support is annoying, but I guess it's balanced out because your dash is invincible, thus it's easy to get out of intense bullet-patterns. It can be entertaining once you figure out what's going on.

Riddled Corpses is crap. (not really a shmup either but whatever)

Nandeyanen!? started boring me before I even got past the first stage. It's just...I don't even know.

Not really feeling Don'Yoku. The stages are Psikyo short and rather uneventful. The bosses throw way more than enough crap on-screen, probably too much. After my first attempt on normal I went to the community hub and found out there's a rank system. Sure enough, I ran headfirst into this on my second play and the 4th boss became practically impossible to beat without chewing through several lives. This was on normal difficulty btw, apparently the absurd rank-ups aren't that much of an issue on the harder settings. Thing is though, the harder-difficulty bosses throw WAY more crap on-screen regardless.

Another aspect that "sounds good on paper" is that when you're holding down the button to fire the laser, all of the enemy bullets slow down. Your ship slows down as well for making those pixel perfect dodges. However, there will be those times when you need your speed to dodge a wall of projectiles but kablam! you die because you're overtaken by the bullets resuming their normal speed. There really should have been a better system in place.

Death is also handled poorly. Unlike most shooters, when you get hit there isn't a grace period where your next ship comes in/the screen isn't cleared of bullets/etc. It seems like a minor thing, but I like that I get a moment to reflect & figure out what went wrong. Aside from a minor period of invulnerability, you can never really tell that you died in this game. There's a small explosion, you're now down a life, but it doesn't feel right. Oh and if you lose all your lives and continue, you get no invulnerability, so you could lose a life as soon as you start. Also I somehow managed to get hit with a GAME OVER even though I had credits remaining. Not sure how I triggered that glitch. These aspects seem minor (who continues in a shmup amiright?) but presentation always matters.

Probably should have saved all that text for a full review, but I'd like to manage at least one clear. I should be able to 1CC normal as long as I don't rank-up. The final boss puts out some stupid ridiculous patterns though.
 

Rayge

Member
Jan 22, 2011
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Super Galaxy Squadron needs to add invincibility frames after being hit. If a wall of bullets come your way you are done.

Cave has lost their minds asking for $300,000 to $500,000 for a porting job. People have made complete, fleshed out games for less than that.
I will still support their kickstarter.
 
J

Jotamide

Unconfirmed Member
Whoa... This is interesting. I wonder though, would they ever get that much support?
For porting new games I can see them getting some money. For ports of stuff we already have, unless there are some substantial improvements, I'm not seeing it at all when we have MAME.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Aug 8, 2010
26,423
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It's been over a year and a half and Ikaruga was all treasure ever released on Steam. I was hoping it was a sign of things to come but nothing else showed up. So sad :(
 

PantsuJo

Member
Jun 19, 2015
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It's been over a year and a half and Ikaruga was all treasure ever released on Steam. I was hoping it was a sign of things to come but nothing else showed up. So sad :(
Is Radiant Silvergun on 360 published by Microsoft? Maybe they haven't the rights to release the game outside the MS systems...
 

The End

Member
Dec 2, 2004
5,798
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0
Super Galaxy Squadron needs to add invincibility frames after being hit. If a wall of bullets come your way you are done.

Cave has lost their minds asking for $300,000 to $500,000 for a porting job. People have made complete, fleshed out games for less than that.
I will still support their kickstarter.
Sigh.

This came up during the amplitude KS, but I'll try to sum it up.

You can't compare what is costs for a hobbyist/indie dev to make a game while leaving on ramen at their mother's house to a professional studio where the developers need to pay their mortgage, etc.

Yes, in theory, Cave could make a game for $300k if no one took a paycheck, but considering they've got other stuff to work on that will pay their salaries (pachislot, mobile games, etc) they're not going to do that.
 

Rayge

Member
Jan 22, 2011
10,429
1
610
North Carolina
Sigh.

This came up during the amplitude KS, but I'll try to sum it up.

You can't compare what is costs for a hobbyist/indie dev to make a game while leaving on ramen at their mother's house to a professional studio where the developers need to pay their mortgage, etc.

Yes, in theory, Cave could make a game for $300k if no one took a paycheck, but considering they've got other stuff to work on that will pay their salaries (pachislot, mobile games, etc) they're not going to do that.
But it's for a port... not to make a game.
 

TGMIII

Member
May 6, 2011
3,032
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0
Cave seems to be toying with the idea of a Kickstarter.

However their goals seem a little...steep. $300,000-500,000 for a Steam port? Um.
Their priorities on stretch goals are all over the place. 300/500K gets you a steam port but then once you jump to 3M suddenly steam is off the plate. I get that development isn't cheap but I think if you go the route of crowdfunding then you need to have a clear, concise and consistent goal in mind. Platforms get added, not removed.

I've always thought crowdfunding could be an avenue for CAVE as a supplement to their business but only for their most dedicated fans. Even 300K is probably overzealous.
 
Been working through Eschatos. Here's how I've progressed in 3+ hours of play.

Easy Original & Advance - 1CCed - Not exactly an accomplishment but whatevs.
Normal Original - 26 - I got to the final boss with three lives...It didn't work out. His patterns get far more difficult compared to easy mode, plus he has that final form... It's times like this I wish I was playing a Cave shooter. At least I'd have a meaty stack of bombs to chew through the worst patterns. My last two attempts ended on stages 17 and 16 respectively, so there's definitely progress going on.
Time Attack - If I had literally 10 more seconds I could have won. Still, it was only the second time I played.

My scores suck too but oh well.

Good game.
 

Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
24,280
3
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Yeah the Original Normal boss kind of surprised me with all the push-shield attacks. 1cc'd it the other day, finally. Really like the game. Advanced seems cool but maybe easier?
 

Fugu

Member
Jan 25, 2009
7,831
0
790
Toronto
It's been a while since I've played it, but Gradius V is a great game. Not a bad purchase in any context. It's not quite as lean as most of the great arcade games in the genre (a full playthrough is an hour, which means twice as long single credit clear attempts when compared to a lot of shooters), but it's still very recommended.

Espgaluda is my number one suggestion to those new to trying to clear games in the genre. It's a wonderful game, mostly easy (save the final boss) but never to the point where it feels trivial, with fantastic aesthetics and a cool and unique scoring system to toy with. There's a great PS2 port and the game is pretty well-emulated in MAME.

DoDonPachi is iconic and great and actually probably easier for a first loop clear. PS1, Saturn, MAME.

The modern Mushihimesama series ports are great starting points, too, with both games having three well-balanced game modes selectable in their original arcade form. A lot of people consider the second game, Mushihimesama Futari, to be the best in the genre. The first game has a bad PS2 port, an excellent Japan-only region locked 360 port, and an upcoming Steam release this Winter (!). The second game is region free on 360.

I usually suggest Cave games, lol. They're more accessible than many may think, and every one of their arcade releases is top-tier.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to check out Espgaluda (Esp-galudah? How do you say this non-word?) and DoDonPachi, as I have no realistic/legal way of playing Mushihimesama Futari.

Over the years I've accumulated an odd assortment of SHMUPs. I own the following:
Truxton (beat this a bunch of times), Hellfire, Phelios, Forgotten Worlds (beat this a few times too), Thunder Force II, Gradius III, Darius Gaiden (beat this yesterday using the auto-fire cheat because my wrists can't handle mashing for seven levels), and G-Darius, which I'm currently playing. As I am currently not made of money, do you have any suggestions from within those games as to what might be good for beginners? I got tossed pretty badly by Gradius III and I made some headway into Hellfire about fifteen years ago, but other than that I have no idea about any of these games except for the ones that I've beaten.
 
Eschatos progress update:

That about says it all really.
The first loop (easy) I believe I completed with 7 lives, which is pretty decent considering I died in the first two minutes! (nearly quit because of that).
Now granted, I went into the second loop with a large stock, but for a good chunk of the game I didn't die, and there are probably half as many extend-drops at this point, so it sorta balances out.

I got to the final boss (2nd time around) with 5 lives and still failed. It's just....UGH. It feels like I can't do anything.
There's crap everywhere and I'm too busy on the defensive to get any damage in. Also the thing with Advanced is that the pods aren't dropping bombs by this point, they're dropping power-ups, which don't do much good.

Going to take a well-deserved break, look up some strats, then go from there.