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Shoot the Core! - Gaf Shoot ‘em Up (aka Shooter/SHMUP) Reference Thread

Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
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Note that for shmups on mame there is an active project on shmups.com re a special recompile of mame to better emulate shmups (i.e., reduce the lag that's currently in mame).
To nitpick, I want to point out that ShmupMAME opts for less accurate emulation. MAME emulates lag present in the original games, but most modern PC users have some lag due to their displays or display options that will stack on top of this. ShmupMAME bypasses the original game's lag in order to compensate for the user's laggy display pipeline. Assuming nothing has changed in the past couple years, at least.

Basically, if you have a gsync monitor and want an accurate experience, use standard MAME over ShmupMAME.
 

AmyS

Member
Aug 22, 2012
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At least you had the good sense to palate cleanse that Nostradamus garbage with a Toaplan classic.
Another Toaplan classic which needs a western release is Truxton II (Tatsujin Oh). While it had a quality port on the FM Towns Marty, as hardcore shmup fans know, it lacked the parallax scrolling.

Arcade and FM Towns side by side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLTsq0HVbc

A few 60fps clips of arcade Truxton II:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYaylvd0mgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzZ82aVZCvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uNSWO33VQ

Edit: full 60fps longplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE-p8EW7nwA

On another note, has there ever been a more serious attempt to make a ripoff of R-Type for arcades than this game?
Some of you can probably already guess what game I'm linking to, but perhaps some of you have never seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXmOUfCpEQ
 

Bar81

Member
May 30, 2013
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50
445
To nitpick, I want to point out that ShmupMAME opts for less accurate emulation. MAME emulates lag present in the original games, but most modern PC users have some lag due to their displays or display options that will stack on top of this. ShmupMAME bypasses the original game's lag in order to compensate for the user's laggy display pipeline. Assuming nothing has changed in the past couple years, at least.

Basically, if you have a gsync monitor and want an accurate experience, use standard MAME over ShmupMAME.
Thanks for that clarification.

Another Toaplan classic which needs a western release is Truxton II (Tatsujin Oh). While it had a quality port on the FM Towns Marty, as hardcore shmup fans know, it lacked the parallax scrolling.

On another note, has there ever been a more serious attempt to make a ripoff of R-Type for arcades than this game?
Some of you can probably already guess what game I'm linking to, but perhaps some of you have never seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXmOUfCpEQ
At this point, just like Dogyuun, you just buy the PCB or mame it. I bought both since they're great games.

Rezon - Just in the first few levels you're seeing rip offs of R-Type 1, R-Type II, R-Type Leo and X-Multiply.
 

microfolk

Member
Apr 12, 2013
506
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I'm torn on whether or not it's actually a good game but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
Oh I'm actually pretty curious now, why aren't you sure about it's quality?
I've just made a couple of runs yesterday so it's really too soon for me for making any sort of qualitative judgement (outside of how incredibly fun it is), but I'd like to hear your opinion!
 

MrDoctor

Member
Jan 3, 2009
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On another note, has there ever been a more serious attempt to make a ripoff of R-Type for arcades than this game?
Some of you can probably already guess what game I'm linking to, but perhaps some of you have never seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXmOUfCpEQ
Damn, that is blatant. I was expecting Xexex.

What are the best shmups available on PSN? Already have Gradius collection and Gradius V.
R-Type Dimensions, Shienryu, and Alpha Mission II
 

Fugu

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Jan 25, 2009
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It's worlds different. I mean, completely different. Not just the difficulty but the levels are different too. You're in for quite a shock if you're expecting a slightly faster SNES version!

There's tons of ways to play it but yeah, give it a try and let us know what you think. I'd seriously like to hear about your reaction to it, if you've never played it before and don't know anything about the AC version. It's like the shmup version of watching people's reactions to the first time they see 2 girls 1 cup. :D

Gradius is one of my favorite shmup series. I love them all in their own way and wish so bad that we'd get a Gradius VI. Too bad Konami sucks weiner now-a-days. T_T
So I moved to Japan last week and one of the first things I did was troll through some arcades, and lo and be hold...

Holy crap.

This shit is ridiculous! I actually managed to beat the SNES version (almost in one life, too) but I can't make it past the first level of the arcade game. I didn't try very hard -- I think "trying hard" in this case might bankrupt me, 50 yen at a time -- but it's just ridiculous.
 

Tain

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Jun 13, 2004
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So I moved to Japan last week and one of the first things I did was troll through some arcades, and lo and be hold...

Holy crap.

This shit is ridiculous! I actually managed to beat the SNES version (almost in one life, too) but I can't make it past the first level of the arcade game. I didn't try very hard -- I think "trying hard" in this case might bankrupt me, 50 yen at a time -- but it's just ridiculous.
lol, this is great.
 

ShalashaskaEx

Banned
Jan 8, 2014
481
0
0
So I moved to Japan last week and one of the first things I did was troll through some arcades, and lo and be hold...

Holy crap.

This shit is ridiculous! I actually managed to beat the SNES version (almost in one life, too) but I can't make it past the first level of the arcade game. I didn't try very hard -- I think "trying hard" in this case might bankrupt me, 50 yen at a time -- but it's just ridiculous.
Hahaha awesome. Good luck in Japan! The arcades there are great. The first time I visited Akihabara (sp) I thought I had found the promised land. :D
 

Fugu

Member
Jan 25, 2009
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lol, this is great.
Hahaha awesome. Good luck in Japan! The arcades there are great. The first time I visited Akihabara (sp) I thought I had found the promised land. :D
Yeah... my Gradius 3 days are probably over. It's fun, but not fun enough to justify the time/expense involved in learning it.

Darius Gaiden, on the other hand, is becoming a post-work ritual for me. Not quite good enough for the 1CC (even with the Japan autofire) but I'm getting there.
 

Rayge

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Jan 22, 2011
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AmyS

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Aug 22, 2012
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Alright, completely back on topic.

A run through another favorite, Namco's Phelios from 1988.

Part 1, 2 and 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SliGoSqEsaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-x8kHcxmc8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSAhIWNrTmE

The theme is Greek mythology, you are Apollo, riding Pegasus, trying to rescue Artemis. Holding down the fire button (a la R-Type) charges your sword weapon. Love the music also!.



The arcade version has a wonderful color palette, plus scaling & rotation, which on the Mega Drive / Genesis version, they did not even attempt to reproduce.



On the other hand, the 1990 console version puts more emphasis on parallax scrolling. i.e. the clouds on the second part of the first stage scrolling rapidly at an angle to the movement of the screen scrolling in different directions. It looks very nice in its own right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KRNcoL-JrE

Very under appreciated shmup.










Edit: Hardcore Gaming 101 has an excellent Phelios article.

Namco practically invented the vertical shooter as we know it with Xevious, released in 1983. They expanded on the formula with Dragon Spirit (1987) and Dragon Saber (1990), changing the well-worn sci-fi setting of Xevious into a high fantasy one, replacing spaceships with dragons. Sandwiched in the middle of those releases is Phelios, which seems outwardly similar to the two Dragon games, but changes the setting to one inspired by Greek mythology.

You control Apollo (or Apollon, in the Japanese version), riding on top of the mighty winged horse Pegasus. Your goal is to rescue his girlfriend, the goddess Artemis, from the evil titan Typhon. Anyone familiar with Greek mythology will find this to be a little bit wrong, considering Apollo was actually Artemis' brother, not lover, but then again that whole canon is known for being somewhat sordid anyway. Boss enemies include Medusa, the Graenae (the three witches), the Siren, Antaeus, the Siren (who looks more like a harpy), Scylla and Cerberus.
The fanciest gimmick is the prevalent use of scaling and rotation effects, thanks to the Namco System 2 hardware, which also powered Valkyrie no Densetsu and Assault to similar ends. Right at the beginning of the first stage, as soon as Apollo launches his assault, he divebombs from a cliff down to the earth below, which twists and turns sporadically. At the end of this segment, Apollo rises into the sky to scale a cliff, before diving back down to the surface, avoiding fire from a turret consisting of eyeball-firing skulls, before entering the shrine to face the first boss.

Not only is this a remarkably impressive effect, but it gives Phelios a remarkably cinematic feel.
While there are a few other shooters that share the ancient Greek setting - Konami's Knightmare and Compile's Sylphia being the most noteworthy - Phelios is easily the best looking of the lot, and the special effects elevate it above the level of many others of the era.

Phelios was ported to the Genesis, marking its first English release. (The arcade version was only released in Japan.) Strangely, all of the text is in English, even in the Japanese release. Most of the graphics have been entirely redrawn, and it looks a little darker, though still decent. There was absolutely no hope in replicating the scaling and rotation effects on the hardware, so the levels have been revamped to revise these sections.

Despite losing one of its main gimmicks, the game itself doesn't really suffer all that much for it, besides losing the gee-whiz factor. In fact, in one instance the lack of scaling graphics actually works in its favor. In the arcade game, most of the boss sprites are scaled up from a lower resolution, making them look ugly and pixellated. They're completely redone at the proper resolution in the Genesis port, so they look much better.
Though missing from most Namco retro game compilations, both the Genesis and arcade versions were released on the Wii Virtual Console in Japan.
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/phelios/phelios.htm

It's amazing that the Wii VC was the only platform to get the arcade version, even if only in Japan.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Apr 8, 2005
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Hey guys, finally got down spending some time with Ketsui on PS3.
Wobbly backgrounds and visual artifacts are a it of a problem tho.

Can somebody help me out with some maths to know what zoom % would be the correct/nearest to the original on a 1024x768 Plasma display (16:9) in Yoko mode? Using nearest neighbour of course.
Iirc it's something like 83% on a 720p panel.

I'd love to know the same with the enhanced (640x480 iirc?) EspII; Futari, Akai Katana, DDPR and Deathsmiles.

MMP/PS should be the same as Ketsui I guess.

Don't know about the Delta Zeal/etc on the 10thASC.

I'll be forever grateful! Or you could fill me in on what kind of math I need and where I can find the correct info on the various ports' resolution.
 

StarCreator

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Oct 26, 2007
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For Ketsui, the problem stems from the game's non-square pixels; it's only possible to get a near-match in one dimension while stretching or shrinking the other.

You can get near a dot by dot representation on the smaller (horizontal) axis by setting the PS3 output resolution to 480p and the in-game scaling to 93-94% (the actual value is in the middle somewhere). I use nearest neighbor scaling because it is sharper, though there will be visible areas where the vertical sizing will be off; at that scale though, it's not a big enough problem for me to be concerned with it. Unfortunately, given your display you will have to put up with the console's image being scaled again, which sort of ruins the point of all this, but on PS3 you don't really have any choice in the matter; the PS3 only supports 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p outputs.

Dodonpachi Daioujou is the only other 360-era port to have the issue; all other games that appear on 360 had square pixels to begin with and are generally preconfigured to a dot by dot display at 480p output.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Apr 8, 2005
15,737
2
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For Ketsui, the problem stems from the game's non-square pixels; it's only possible to get a near-match in one dimension while stretching or shrinking the other.

You can get near a dot by dot representation on the smaller (horizontal) axis by setting the PS3 output resolution to 480p and the in-game scaling to 93-94% (the actual value is in the middle somewhere). I use nearest neighbor scaling because it is sharper, though there will be visible areas where the vertical sizing will be off; at that scale though, it's not a big enough problem for me to be concerned with it. Unfortunately, given your display you will have to put up with the console's image being scaled again, which sort of ruins the point of all this, but on PS3 you don't really have any choice in the matter; the PS3 only supports 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p outputs.

Dodonpachi Daioujou is the only other 360-era port to have the issue; all other games that appear on 360 had square pixels to begin with and are generally preconfigured to a dot by dot display at 480p output.
Thanks man, tho afaik 93% would be in 480p yes, but only if I were to TATE.
My plasma set (being 1024x768 but 16:9) has rectangular pixels just like Ketsui (again afaik) so in this particular case it shouldn't be a problem but I asked because Cave games display ratio are all over the place and it's difficult to track them all. Don't have DDP:Dj since I don't own a jpn 360, I own just the pal/free releases (but all of them, xbla/retail, bar Caladrius Blaze since it's coming to PC and Bullet Soul IB cause I've missed it and now it's too expensive for what it is imo... maybe I can grab it off the jon marketplace?) but the 360 is hooked up to a CRT monitor. Again, thanks for taking the time to writing that down, appreciated it!
 

BOTEC

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Feb 8, 2010
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Whoa, time out. Degica is publishing Darius Burst CS in the US? When was this announced?

Edit: Just found the thread from last night. This is why we need new news on old threads people.
 

AmyS

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Aug 22, 2012
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455


From the November / December 1987 issue of Top Score. Published by Amusement Players Association, and editor Steve Harris, who would later go on to found EGM.


Yes, Nintendo America distributed Irem's R-Type machines in the U.S.

 

shaowebb

Member
Dec 12, 2006
20,107
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Just found out for PC Engine there was a shmup based around a kid taking a shit and then having to fight his way through the world of shit inside his toilet. Its called Toilet Kids...



I officially know too much. You fly around on your potty dodging literal shit, piss, and fart shaped bullets and enemies. EVERYTHING is made of shit...eeeeeeverything. Camel humps, pyramids, planes with butts for the front end that shit at you, flys with dicks that piss everywhere... When I checked it on youtube and at the 12 minute 43 second mark goldfish started straining and string pooping to make beams and flying helicoptering penises flew by slinging piss bullets I knew I was through the looking glass here.

Time to leave the internet for awhile.

@_@
Somebody send this thing to Jon Tron
 

Tetsuo9999

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Apr 19, 2015
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You guys see this? This released on Steam today - looks dope! And it's 4 player co-op, no less!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/389650/
It's a pretty awesome game. You can fully customize just about every facet of the game, from enemy health, to the player's hitbox. It also has a simple progression system, four characters, and some light customization as well. The only major downside to is it no online co-op.
 
Oct 19, 2011
1,728
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G.Rev announced that Strania is on Steam!

*cries*

Dreams DO come true.

Honestly, I just need Trouble Witches Neo, Radiant Silvergun, and Guardian Heroes to show up on Steam, and (with Cave now releasing their games on Steam in general), I can retire my 360...hell, I could almost get rid of it.


Also, a friend of mine has a shoot em up going through Greenlight right now. I did game testing on it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=540046161
 

SonyToo!™

Member
May 30, 2011
2,917
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Hey GAF.

Mad Shark by Allumer Ltd. is a very polished Raiden-style shmup that is pretty obscure but definitely worth playing emulated if you can't get the PCB.
Yeah I was hooked when I played Mad Shark 2-3 years ago, so hooked that I ended up with carpel tunnel and a knacked r hand for 6 months lol.
 

Shaneus

Member
Jul 26, 2004
38,258
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Hey GAF.

Mad Shark by Allumer Ltd. is a very polished Raiden-style shmup that is pretty obscure but definitely worth playing emulated if you can't get the PCB.
I'd be really happy if we had more Raiden-em-ups. I loved that style but everything seems to take it to extremes these days. I love other shmups obviously, but this style seems to get neglected.

Edit: Holy shit, I just watched a trailer for Strania on 360. Such an interesting mechanic, the reflective bullet thing. Will get.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
Jun 7, 2011
9,665
0
0
I'd be really happy if we had more Raiden-em-ups. I loved that style but everything seems to take it to extremes these days. I love other shmups obviously, but this style seems to get neglected..
You got XIIZEAL/Deltazeal, right?