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Should Disney hold Kathleen Kennedy responsible for the fall of Star Wars brand?

Thaedolus

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Straw man. In woke world diversity checklist characters must be perfect Mary Sue characters every time. This makes for a lack of development and generally boring plot.
I think you read what I wrote differently than what I meant. Wokeness (or lack of) had nothing to do with why the movies suck. Finn, the black guy, wasn’t a Mary Sue and part of why TLJ sucked was his development as a character from the first movie completely reset as he cowardly tries to desert. That’s not a wokeness issue, it’s a follow the shit from the last movie issue, instead of trying to act like nothing that came before matters.

With the exception of the Poe plot where he learns to respect wymyn, I don’t think the woke thing really affected Star Wars much at all....just shitty writing and planning out of the sequel trilogy. JJ isn’t a great writer but good director, RJ just sucks. None of that has to do with the new characters’ intersectionality score. They just didn’t think it through and didn’t execute.
 

desertdroog

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The Identity Politics she injected around the movie, mainly talking about her disgust for the fandom who happen to be white and male, as well as general regressive garbage doesn't do her any favors. The fact that she also oversaw unnecessary IdPol threaded into the story line of the final trilogy as opposed to, I don't know, actually attempt to tell a story instead of using diversity (lol it's fucking star wars with aliens of all types) as a crutch, then perhaps the movies may have been better than they are. Rian Johnson did no favors with his disjointed meandering attempt of reconstructing a tale in the space opera and JJ Abrams is obviously a Star Trek fan when you compare and contrast his handiwork on this mess.

She's trash, anyone who pushes IdPol first and story second is trash. Star Wars in general is schlocky trash, but it is endearing in a silly assed scifi fantasy sort of way. If I were Disney, I would head hunt those authors who wrote great (now non-canon) EU books and get them on retainer for consultation work on future movies. The Mandalorian is a good step, Rogue One and Solo were merely OK, but better than the train wreck of what was passed off as the end of the Skywalker Saga.
 
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iconmaster

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I find that hard to believe.
Consider the pressure involved in not just managing a four billion dollar franchise for one of the most demanding corporations in the world, but also pleasing one of the most demanding fanbases in the world, while cleaning up Kennedy’s mess.

There are easier ways to make your stamp in entertainment.

And I don’t see any other way to explain her employment
 
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PanzerAzel

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Let's be honest here, the fans are 100% at fault for the "downfall" of the films.

At release Empire Strikes Back was not very well received and this ws reflected in a lower box office for Return of the Jedi. From the very start fans weren't happy with how different episode 5 was to episode 4.

Nearly 20 years after the OT the prequels came out. I personally enjoyed them for what they were but a lot of the fan base tore Lucas a new arse hole. Again the prequels were totally different to the OT. It's completely fine to hate the prequels but it is absolutely disgusting how parts of the fandom acted and treated Lucas like shit. There was even a movie created by the fans to show how much they hated the prequels.

For 30+ years Lucas had planned to make a 9-12 part saga and if the fandom treated him with more respect there is no doubt in my mind that he would have completed the saga.

It was the fans that pushed Lucas away from Star Wars.

And now here we are with Disney movies. Again it's fine if people hate the films but all parts of the fandom can do is insult Abrams, Johnson, Kennedy and Iger. It's non stop. It's everywhere. Doesn't matter if it's not directly at them, word gets around and it's depressing and gross. Criticise the movies, don't attack the people who spent their lives dedicated to creating a product.

What's even worse is people who quote Lucas to make him out as an ally against Disney but it's the fucking fandom that drove him away.

Parts of the fandom are 100% gross. There is no doubt about it.

*EDIT*
And yes, I think that anyone complaining about Last Jedi or Rise of Skywalker are a bunch of man babies.
There are plenty of other movies out there that are worse but people don't attack the creatives. The Star Wars fanbase are owed absolutely fucking nothing and have absolutely no right to treat people like shit because their "childhood" was ruined. They are adults now and should grow the fuck up. Write a negative review on Rottentomatoes or Letterboxd and move the fuck on with life.
Speaking as a creator myself, when you create and put something out into the public sphere, expect it (and yourself) to be criticized, sometimes very harshly. That's life, and it's ironic for you to sit there and believe that the creators are entitled to be "respected" yet the fans can fuck off. No one is under any obligation to respect a creator or their creation, and certainly not when it is executed so poorly as it has been in Ep. 1-3 (technically) and 7-9 (narratively). I will give creators credit and respect when it is due. To imply that somehow they deserve it by default simply due to creative impetus is absurd.

Aside, if Lucas is such a fragile snowflake that fan backlash has precluded him from finishing such a grand vision that's occupied a good portion of his life, then I think that speaks more on him then it does the fans. I might've missed it (please show me if I have), but I've never heard him express that fans were the reason he was moving on, but more that he wanted to retire and hand it off to Disney so that more people would be able to enjoy it. He had blueprints for the ST he hoped Iger would use, so if he were so traumatized and tired of this toxic fandom and wanted to rid himself of them as you claim, then why would he place himself again in a position of creative endevour that may have landed him in the shithouse had fans not liked his story? Seems to me that those who so desperately wish to hate on the Star Wars fan base are the ones falsely attributing his own motives in selling Lucasfilm to suit their own blame game narrative as they are utterly incapable of placing it where it is actually due.

Lucas isn't at all at fault for the ST's failing, but yes, he is 100% at fault for the PT's. He owns that, not the fans, just as Kennedy, Iger, JJ and Rian own the ST. Seriously, piss off with this nonsense of blaming fans for terribly made films. Sure, you can make an argument about fan entitlement, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the movies that we got.

And where is this false comparison with Empire coming from? I've seen this lie a few times now. I am old enough to remember that Empire was very well received on release. Now TLJ fans are laughably attempting revisionism to pull Empire down and claim that, with time and like any good fine wine, TLJ will age prime to stand aside it. Sorry, no. It's garbage, and it will rot like garbage.

And "don't attack the people who spent their lives dedicated to creating a product."

For money? You act as if they are acting altruistically. And you mean those same people attacking me, claiming me a bigot and every "ism" under the sun because I call shit out for what it is? Fuck them, let it pour.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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You’re either dumb, blind or a Disney sycophant. Which is It?

Who started this lie and why are you spreading it? Empire strikes back was insanely popular when it it was first released. It was so popular they released it in theaters again before RotJ
As an og fan since the initial release the desperate attempt to rewrite history is hilarious. Us kids loved Empire.
 
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Ixiah

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Yes, 100%
Shes the one in Charge, she allowed this Mess to happen in the first Place, she never made Plans to have all 3 Movies to have a cohrent Plot/Thread, she was so drunk on Power she didnt slapped Rian Cuckson in the face when he asked for 200 Million to make a personal "Fuck You" to SW fans, she was more content to know Lesbian Hair Admirals are in the Movie, thats enough.
She cost Disney Billions, in Movie sales and merchandise.
She basicly failed to sell Cool Coke in a Hot Stadium.
I mostly hate greedy Corp. but in this one Case, how the fuck did no one in the upper Management see this coming, why did they gave the Control away to what could have been an infinite Well of Money and didnt made sure its in the Hands of someone who knows what they are doing ?
Why werent they thinking with their Wallet ?
 
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iconmaster

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As for who would replace her, that remains unclear, but from what we’ve heard, it could be another woman so that the studio isn’t accused of mistreating women in power.
*sigh*
 

oagboghi2

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cryptoadam

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I am pretty sure KK came in and said I want more WAMANZ in Star Wars and thats all she cared about. Thats why she let JJ and RJ do whatever the fook they wanted with their films, nor why she had any over reaching plan.

I think her entire outline was probably female lead + token black character and yall figure out the rest. And ya convinent that RO has a female lead too. I am sure if they could of worked a way to have Solo be a chick they would of, so KK was a bit screwed on that.

I don't really care if you have female leads, and TFA made huge money and RO did very well. So I am not blaming anything on the female leads. But I am blaming KK for probably only caring about having the force be female above all else that she didn't give a crap enough to care about the rest of the films. As long as she got that she let the productions run roguhshod, ending in her having to replace directors on RO + Solo, and bring in RJ and then get rid of him for JJ. Add in all the re shoots, and re edits over all the films and flip flopping of storylines in the ST and its clear KK had no control of the production.
 
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DeafTourette

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I'm not so sure people dislike Tran personally considering we still haven't seen actual proof of the twitter bullying yet and people claimed the same thing happened to Ridley before she set the record straight. Her performance wasn't good but that seemed to mostly come from her just being too excited to be in the film which is pretty understandable. It could also have been poor direction because Laura Dern who is usually fantastic put out the single worst performance I've ever seen give under Johnson.

But yeah this isn't the cast's fault which is pure dynamite on paper for the most part. They've all been criminally let down by the creatives and higher-ups.

"Ching ching wing tong"? That was ... *Sigh*
 

KingGhidorah

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I am pretty sure KK came in and said I want more WAMANZ in Star Wars and thats all she cared about. Thats why she let JJ and RJ do whatever the fook they wanted with their films, nor why she had any over reaching plan.

I think her entire outline was probably female lead + token black character and yall figure out the rest. And ya convinent that RO has a female lead too. I am sure if they could of worked a way to have Solo be a chick they would of, so KK was a bit screwed on that.

I don't really care if you have female leads, and TFA made huge money and RO did very well. So I am not blaming anything on the female leads. But I am blaming KK for probably only caring about having the force be female above all else that she didn't give a crap enough to care about the rest of the films. As long as she got that she let the productions run roguhshod, ending in her having to replace directors on RO + Solo, and bring in RJ and then get rid of him for JJ. Add in all the re shoots, and re edits over all the films and flip flopping of storylines in the ST and its clear KK had no control of the production.
if you observed Solo, it's actually a very feminist movie. You notice how the leader of the marauder and the young Sith are actually teenage girls, and they both came to rescue Solo at critical moments
 
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Tiamat2san

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How the fuck did Lucas picked her ?
Did she change when she was the head of Star Wars ?
All I can say is that under her lead Star Wars became lame.
7/8/9 have some good moments but so much bad.
I don’t Jedi and Sith to be as powerful as Marvel super heroes.
WTF are the powers in 9!
And the social agenda...eeerk.
It’s Star Wars ...
 

sol_bad

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no...no...no...no.....don't put this on the fans

KK started this war, as far as I remember TFA was fine, some disgruntled fans sure, but overall TFA was well received, box office speaks for itself

Then KK said those infamous words, that she didn't feel like she needed to pander to the male fans........oh yeah?!? then fuck you

it's like business and customers, here we are customers, supported the franchise for 30+ years spending hundreds if not thousands on SW movies and merchandise, then all of a sudden, the new owner comes in and say, 'you know what, I don't think I need to pander to you anymore because we're gonna focus on the new demographic customers'

in that case, we all do what good customers suppose to do, we tell her to fuck off and take our money somewhere else
It's amazing how fans try to re-write history but George has said a similar thing as what Kathleen Kennedy said. He does what's best for the films story and not what's best for the fans.

With Kathleen, her quote is taken out of context

So when criticism from a select group of fans at having a second female lead in a row, as Felicity Jones stars as Jyn Erso in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story next month after Daisy Ridley starred as Rey in Star Wars: The Force Awakens started to hit, Kennedy paid it no mind.

"I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don't feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way [to those particular fans]," Kennedy told the New York Times in an interview focused around Jones. "I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that's appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something


She is talking about a certain subset of the fandom, not of the fandom as a whole. But yeah, if you are one of the people whinging about Rey and Jyn as main characters than she is talking about you and you can keep whinging if you want. If you weren't whinging about Rey and Jyn you can continue to live your happy little life as you please.
KK didn't start a war with that sentence, it's the negative "fans" who twisted her words and wanted to make it a "war".
And as Doom85 Doom85 said, majority of the fandom has no clue who KK is just like the MCU fandom has no clue who Feige is.

In both cases (George and Kathleen) they are doing what they feel is best for the story. With Rey and Jyn, the stories wouldn't magically be better if they were male leads instead.
 

cryptoadam

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if you observed Solo, it's actually a very feminist movie. You notice how the leader of the marauder and the young Sith are actually teenage girls, and they both came to rescue Solo at critical moments
Good point. They couldn't chagne Han into a girl so they did the next best thing.
 

KingGhidorah

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It's amazing how fans try to re-write history but George has said a similar thing as what Kathleen Kennedy said. He does what's best for the films story and not what's best for the fans.

With Kathleen, her quote is taken out of context

So when criticism from a select group of fans at having a second female lead in a row, as Felicity Jones stars as Jyn Erso in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story next month after Daisy Ridley starred as Rey in Star Wars: The Force Awakens started to hit, Kennedy paid it no mind.

"I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don't feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way [to those particular fans]," Kennedy told the New York Times in an interview focused around Jones. "I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that's appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something


She is talking about a certain subset of the fandom, not of the fandom as a whole. But yeah, if you are one of the people whinging about Rey and Jyn as main characters than she is talking about you and you can keep whinging if you want. If you weren't whinging about Rey and Jyn you can continue to live your happy little life as you please.
KK didn't start a war with that sentence, it's the negative "fans" who twisted her words and wanted to make it a "war".
And as Doom85 Doom85 said, majority of the fandom has no clue who KK is just like the MCU fandom has no clue who Feige is.

In both cases (George and Kathleen) they are doing what they feel is best for the story. With Rey and Jyn, the stories wouldn't magically be better if they were male leads instead.
wrong again! that bolded part is from the article '......So when criticism from a select group of fans at having a second female lead in a row.....'

her answer didn't specifically address certain group of fandom, her quote was directed to general men

"....I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something...."

she said 'men' twice, and not in any one of them she said '...certain group of men...'
 
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sol_bad

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wrong again! that bolded part is from the article '......So when criticism from a select group of fans at having a second female lead in a row.....'

her answer didn't specifically address certain group of fandom, her quote was directed to general men

"....I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something...."

she said 'men' twice, and not in any one of them she said '...certain group of men...'
We both know you are part of that select group of fans.
 
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blu

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I blame whoever let Rian Johnson near the trilogy, so yes, I blame Kathleen Kennedy for her incompetence.

And it's not like they were starved for good directors -- JJ did ok with TFA, while Gareth Edwards did great with RO -- another movie with a female lead, a male support and a bunch of secondary characters all with their own arcs. So nothing in the path to TLJ mandated the joke of a movie RJ did of it.

Which makes RO the last great SW movie, while Solo was ok, and so is Mandalorian for a series. And that's all that remains after you give the most successful movie franchise to incompetent people -- incompetence consumes all.
 
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newtypepilot

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100% yes.
SJW pandering aside, the biggest problem with the recent trilogy is that it was obvious they had no plan on where the story would go. It seemed like as long as she can push her agendas into the films, it didn't matter if the story had no direction. Thus you have 3 films that have zero coherency with each other.

TFA: basically a soft reboot. It was fine because it was setting up for the new characters to take over.
TLJ: ignores the setup that were in TFA. Tries for something off the wall and fails. Also wasted a hour of film time devoted to a meaningless sidequest just to push a PC message.
ROS: due to fan outrage from TLJ, it attempts to retcon TLJ, as if it never existed. In fact it even takes subtle shots at it. Pacing was in lightspeed as they try to undo everything in TLJ as well as tie all the loose ends together. In doing so, plotholes and deus ex machina appear one after another. Even the dialogue is just exposition for the audience to understand what the fuck is going on.
 
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longdi

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I actually like Rey too. They could have created an interesting arc for her had they not bungled the narrative with The Last Jedi.

I also feel sorry for Daisy Ridley. While it's no fault of hers that the sequel trilogy failed, I think she'll carry that stigma wherever she goes. It's why I think actors should be careful whenever the sign on to Star Wars. Do the fans wrong and you'll feel their wrath. Look at what happened to poor Jake Lloyd as an example.
I found Rey pretty hot in TROS. :messenger_fire::messenger_smiling_hearts:

I like the character, manbabies please dont troll my Daisy.
 

Starlight Lotice

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If she goes then I will take the lead and add many characters from Jamaica and re-add Jar Jar Binks with a Restafarian Hat.

It may not make millions but I can at least provide the fans more entertainment and get paid a heafty sum and retire to somewhere recluse where no fan can stab me to death for making the new films a funnier joke that has some flair!

/s
 
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Davey Cakes

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The cast is pitiful, the writing brings upon seething cringe levels in the brain--the acting in turn follows suit to said writing, and films overall have been done zero justice to their name. Star Wars used to be great, now they're more or less, simply disappointing. One watch will do with these new films, one less than enjoyable sit through. The older ones are classics and can be revisited; cant say that for the new ones. Maybe she should be fired
The cast is actually fantastic, IMO. The most out-of-place might be Driver, but that almost works considering his character.

It's all in the writing. This new Star Wars Trilogy as a continuation needed to be Sonic Mania'd. That is, it should've involved people versed in the EU and the lore, who could keep the series fresh while still tying it to the OT.
 
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oagboghi2

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Oh I didn't think she was a Sith....

just that she was working for one which happened to be Darth Maul. I haven't seen Solo though but saw the spoiler ending on YouTube.
She might not be. They didn’t make it clear. All we know is he is her boss.
 

DeafTourette

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I found Rey pretty hot in TROS. :messenger_fire::messenger_smiling_hearts:

I like the character, manbabies please dont troll my Daisy.
In one of the shots when she senses Kylo coming on that planet they find Lando on... It looked like she gained some hips and ACTUALLY had a booty (no flat ironing board).
 
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Contica

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wrong again! that bolded part is from the article '......So when criticism from a select group of fans at having a second female lead in a row.....'

her answer didn't specifically address certain group of fandom, her quote was directed to general men

"....I have a responsibility to the company that I work with. I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something...."

she said 'men' twice, and not in any one of them she said '...certain group of men...'
I replied to you already but you ignored it to keep spouting your bullshit.

Go and read the original NY Times articles and try to grab the context. It matters. Her quote comes after the writer brings up this select group of fans who dislike women leads, first Jones answers, then Kennedy.

But who the fuck am I kidding? As long as you can continue to trick people into believeing this horseshit you should be content.


There are enough issues with Kennedy and Disney, without needing to make shit up.
 

PanzerAzel

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I replied to you already but you ignored it to keep spouting your bullshit.

Go and read the original NY Times articles and try to grab the context. It matters. Her quote comes after the writer brings up this select group of fans who dislike women leads, first Jones answers, then Kennedy.

But who the fuck am I kidding? As long as you can continue to trick people into believeing this horseshit you should be content.


There are enough issues with Kennedy and Disney, without needing to make shit up.
I wasn't going to reply to you, but this is just absurd. Relevant excerpt from the article:

The casting of women in the lead roles of fantasy films like “Rogue One,” “The Force Awakens” and “Ghostbusters” has proved unexpectedly provocative, drawing the ire of those few frustrated fans who call it a concession to political correctness.

Ms. Jones sidestepped this issue, saying that “we wanted the audience to relate to Jyn as a person, whether you’re a boy or a girl, a man or a woman.”

Kathleen Kennedy, the president of Lucasfilm, the studio that makes the “Star Wars” films, was more direct about whether she felt she had to placate these critics.

“I have a responsibility to the company that I work with,” she said. “I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way.”

She added, “I would never just seize on saying, ‘Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something.’”


How does Kennedy make the connection between disgruntled fans who view the placement of females in leading roles as synonymous to those who view and stand opposed to a "concession to political correctness"? Fans having a problem with a female lead due to sexism is entirely different from someone disgruntled because they believe doing so is conceding to political correctness or an agenda. Those are two different arguments. Yet Kennedy immediately conflates the two, and then jumps to the conclusion that the problem is men feeling ostracized, threatened, (or pick whatever Leftist narrative you please) and that's she's under no responsibility to cater to them.

Where is she getting the evidence that fans cited in this article even wanted this aside from pulling this belief out of her behind to suit her ideological worldview? One in which she's held no compunction in demonstrating explicitly in using this franchise as a vessel to push it. Sure, I've no doubt there are more than a few men who feel neglected due to female leads, but that's wholly irrelevant to the point Kennedy was initially confronted with before she conflated two very different issues. And I think when taken in context, as you love to preach, seeing her "the force is female" t-shirt, statements and whatnot, it's a safe bet to say that yes, there is an agenda (I think the term political correctness was misused in the question) going on here.

If anything, this article you cite does Kennedy no favors as it exemplifies what is driving her motivations in the first place.
 
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Rat Rage

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It all started with the damn prequels. Then I blame the people or whoever chose Kennedy.

Everything after the original Trilogy has been more or less soulless. Soulless in the sense that there wasn't any desire to truly outdo the original trilogy or at least be on the same level.

A typical snydrome of multi million dollar franchises. People in charge where more concerned about marketability and producing something "safe" (shoehorning all kinds of shit into the new trilogy), so much so that they effectively crippled themseves creatively, resulting in a fucking mess of movies that are mediocre at best.

So fuck them!

By the way, anyone dissaponted with the new movies, should see "Solo: A Star Wars Story", because - who would've thought - it's actually GREAT!

Story co-written by
Lawrence Edward Kasdan, who was a co-writer of The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Return of the Jedi.

Directed by
Ron Howard, who directed movies like A Beautiful Mind (for which he won the Academy Award for Best Director) and The Da Vinci Code (among others).

So, for everyone who passed on Solo out of spite of the new movies, do youself a favor and watch it.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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It all started with the damn prequels. Then I blame the people or whoever chose Kennedy.

Everything after the original Trilogy has been more or less soulless. Soulless in the sense that there wasn't any desire to truly outdo the original trilogy or at least be on the same level.

A typical snydrome of multi million dollar franchises. People in charge where more concerned about marketability and producing something "safe" (shoehorning all kinds of shit into the new trilogy), so much so that they effectively crippled themseves creatively, resulting in a fucking mess of movies that are mediocre at best.

So fuck them!

By the way, anyone dissaponted with the new movies, should see "Solo: A Star Wars Story", because - who would've thought - it's actually GREAT!

Story co-written by
Lawrence Edward Kasdan, who was a co-writer of The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Return of the Jedi.

Directed by
Ron Howard, who directed movies like A Beautiful Mind (for which he won the Academy Award for Best Director) and The Da Vinci Code (among others).

So, for everyone who passed on Solo out of spite of the new movies, do youself a favor and watch it.
It's the only SW movie I haven't seen.

I've heard mixed views on it and some people it went full feminist and whatnot. That turns me off a bit but I would also think a solo Solo movie (pun intended) would be a fun adventure romp.
 

sol_bad

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How does Kennedy make the connection between disgruntled fans who view the placement of females in leading roles as synonymous to those who view and stand opposed to a "concession to political correctness"? Fans having a problem with a female lead due to sexism is entirely different from someone disgruntled because they believe doing so is conceding to political correctness or an agenda. Those are two different arguments. Yet Kennedy immediately conflates the two, and then jumps to the conclusion that the problem is men feeling ostracized, threatened, (or pick whatever Leftist narrative you please) and that's she's under no responsibility to cater to them.

Where is she getting the evidence that fans cited in this article even wanted this aside from pulling this belief out of her behind to suit her ideological worldview? One in which she's held no compunction in demonstrating explicitly in using this franchise as a vessel to push it. Sure, I've no doubt there are more than a few men who feel neglected due to female leads, but that's wholly irrelevant to the point Kennedy was initially confronted with before she conflated two very different issues. And I think when taken in context, as you love to preach, seeing her "the force is female" t-shirt, statements and whatnot, it's a safe bet to say that yes, there is an agenda (I think the term political correctness was misused in the question) going on here.

If anything, this article you cite does Kennedy no favors as it exemplifies what is driving her motivations in the first place.
How does Kennedy make they connection? Oh I don't know, the hundreds and thousands of Twitter posts and YouTube videos that are primarily made by men? Sure there would be women in the mix but majority would be men. Every negative comment I have seen about Rey being a Mary Sue has come from a man.
 

Darkmakaimura

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How does Kennedy make they connection? Oh I don't know, the hundreds and thousands of Twitter posts and YouTube videos that are primarily made by men? Sure there would be women in the mix but majority would be men. Every negative comment I have seen about Rey being a Mary Sue has come from a man.
I'm no longer on Twitter but last part is false.

I had plenty of mutuals who were women who thought Rey was a Mary Sue.
 
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RaptorGTA

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Last century called. The damage was already done in the prequels.
yes the prequels hurt the brand a little....but considering how strong interest was for The Force Awakens it wasnt anywhere near as bad as it is now. Sure people made fun of the prequels and yea..some people didnt like it..but the current trilogy has divided the fans, caused political controversy and altered the message for the last 6 movies.


Yes she should be held accountable. You can point at JJ and Rian for their scripts..but Kennedy should have stepped in. A plan should have been laid out. Scripts should have been reviewed. You were put in charge when the brand was strong and now look at it. The only thing being talked about is either the terrible reviews of your last movie or baby yoda. Which rumor is she had nothing to do with.
 

#Phonepunk#

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yes the prequels hurt the brand a little
LOL they did not this is batshit insane.

without the prequels SW is only 3 movies. no clone wars tv show. no spinoff films. oh, aside from the Ewok movies nobody wants to bring up (even Disney, bizarrely?) and the Holiday Special.

without the prequels i doubt Lucas could have even sold SW. prequels added tons of characters, tons of media, tons of stories, it hinted at the KOTOR, it created games. basically the entire post-2k SW empire comes out of the PT. if anything it is a massive proof of concept that the brand could extend infinitely, even when the movies are getting crapped on by mainstream people.

feel like people think whether or not critics like a thing matters far more than it does. it doesn't.
 
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PanzerAzel

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How does Kennedy make they connection? Oh I don't know, the hundreds and thousands of Twitter posts and YouTube videos that are primarily made by men? Sure there would be women in the mix but majority would be men. Every negative comment I have seen about Rey being a Mary Sue has come from a man.
This is about men not feeling catered to, not about being a Mary Sue.

I don't think the majority of male fans object to the fact of women in leading roles (we have movies from 3+ decades ago with female leads that show otherwise), that's something Kennedy brought up when asked about appealing to political correctness through casting them. Which I don't think is PC in the slightest tbh, but I do think there's evidence indicative of an agenda on Kennedy's part. If the movies were well written and the character development competently executed, there wouldn't be nearly the degree of vitriol there is towards Rey, and there wouldn't be the mistaken assumption it stems from something that it actually doesn't on Disney's end.
 
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Handel

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No, almost all of the movies produced under her have been financially successful to extremely successful, and she overall expanded the audience for it in the long run. We now have live action shows going, with the Mandalorian being received well.

From a dormant franchise with the taint of the prequels to this in seven years is pretty impressive. There have been failings obviously, you can't please everyone and I have my own issues with certain movies, but none worthy of firing Kathleen over.
 

Rat Rage

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It's the only SW movie I haven't seen.

I've heard mixed views on it and some people it went full feminist and whatnot. That turns me off a bit but I would also think a solo Solo movie (pun intended) would be a fun adventure romp.
Nah, this is all not true. Movie is super fun to watch, has a great cast and fantastic pacing.
 
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Handel

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Despite the quality of the prequels,, Star Wars is one of the biggest brands out there. They had an opportunity to give it new life after the success of The Force Awakens yet they completely squandered it. The responsibility falls on her.

Meanwhile Kevin Feige managed not to fuck up the Marvel Cinematic Universe for 10 years despite some missteps. It's now undoubtedly Disney's biggest franchise. Star Wars needs a guy like him.
There have been quite a good deal of bad-mediocre movies in the MCU, people just sweep them under the rug because the characters aren't as important to them and due to the interconnectivity they have to see them, plus the character might be done better next time. The MCU is not as hard a property as SW, you have an endless supply of storylines and characters already created, and the vast majority of the movie going audience don't have the knowledge to care about adaptation changes. Comic books in general have characters change a ton, have different versions between writers and story arcs. So even the comic book fanboys don't have much to complain about, and many remaining who might complain are still just happy to get big adaptations like this after years of low quality ones, and after lives of being made fun of for being so into comics.

The MCU's handling is impressive for sure, but I don't envy anyone working on SW's with it's fanbase.
 

#Phonepunk#

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From a dormant franchise with the taint of the prequels to this in seven years is pretty impressive.
"taint of the prequels"? look i understand that they are not amazing works of film. but they did not damage a brand that had the Star Wars Holiday Special released before the first sequel. critics may dislike these movies from time to time but on the whole they are and have always been insanely popular money makers from the very first entry. critical praise is really irrelevant except for narratives, which always change in time. the fact of the matter is that rather than buying 3 movies, they could twice that as well as a tv series, all of which being proof of concept that SW could be far more than 3 popular movies from the 80s.

i don't understand this idea that the prequels damaged the brand. they expanded it massively. they added new characters, new ships, new worlds, new stories. it is more than double "the portfolio" as they like to say. without the prequels, SW would be three movies that were big in the early 80s. that's it. after ROTJ, the brand lied dormant, then fan demand was rewarded with new toys, games, and novels. these things in turn Lucas dumped back into his company, back into more projects, fans & Lucas keeping it alive during the lean years. the Special Edition came out in the mid 90s, it showed there was still massive interest. profits from this went into the PT. each project celebrated by fans and the success going back into the franchise, resulting in more stuff. ROTJ had once been an ending, this represented a future of potentials. the only reason this whole thing is worth $4 billion dollars is because of the massive size & potential of the brand. these people aren't reviving a dead brand they are merely mass producing the world's healthiest one.

it is crazy and far more damaging than whatever "TAINT OF THE PREQUELS" means towards the brand to pretend they killed it. to imply it was dead before these vampires bought it. by diminishing the impact fans had in keeping SW alive during those dormant years in the 90s, through comics, through books, through video games. all these things people bought because they loved it, the fans funded the Special Edition by buying the merch despite there being no new movies. we kept it relevant. George put that money into the SE and then put the success of that into the PT. these were billion dollar movies. AOTC made the 2019 equivelant of $900 million dollars. these are massive contributions work $4 billion dollars as valued by one of the biggest comanies on the planet. this was a largely grassroots media empire bought up and simply updated to use a corporate mass production schedule. are we seriously going to ignore decades of fan love so that we can pretend KK is doing a better job than she is? that seems terribly ahistorical and biased.
 
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SlimySnake

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eh, i dont know. they are divisive movies sure, but they still made a lot of money. broke records. did well with the critics. its hard to hold her responsible for earning disney back their $4 billion investment in like 6 years.

but fans seem to be mad. and i guess shes the one who should be held responsible because the fans seem to be betrayed. im personally not a fan and enjoyed most of the movies. i thought the supporting cast fucking sucked. i felt nothing for finn, poe, rose, and only kylo was a somewhat decent villain.

i thought rouge one and solo were exceedingly mediocre and shouldve never been made. i think she should get fired for greenlighting those two movies.

i dont agree with the straight white male complaint. they hired two white male directors to make the movies. their big mistake was rushing out these movies with weak characters and even weaker scripts. they clearly didnt have an overarching plan for the story which is shocking to say the least. you cant just go around winging these movies.
 
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Handel

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eh, i dont know. they are divisive movies sure, but they still made a lot of money. broke records. did well with the critics. its hard to hold her responsible for earning disney back their $4 billion investment in like 6 years.

but fans seem to be mad. and i guess shes the one who should be held responsible because the fans seem to be betrayed. im personally not a fan and enjoyed most of the movies. i thought the supporting cast fucking sucked. i felt nothing for finn, poe, rose, and only kylo was a somewhat decent villain.

i thought rouge one and solo were exceedingly mediocre and shouldve never been made. i think she should get fired for greenlighting those two movies.

i dont agree with the straight white male complaint. they hired two white male directors to make the movies. their big mistake was rushing out these movies with weak characters and even weaker scripts. they clearly didnt have an overarching plan for the story which is shocking to say the least. you cant just go around winging these movies.
RO made over a billion dollars at the BO and is exactly the kind of movie the sequel trilogy haters love. It panders to their want for fan service especially the Vader scenes. I think it's mediocre myself but a side movie making that much can't be called a failure to be fired over. Solo was a bit better than RO to me, but did flop financially and part of that was due to it not being released in December like the others. Solo and maybe TROS are the only good arguments for her firing. The rest were financially successful and for the most part critically successful.
 

gatti-man

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LOL they did not this is batshit insane.

without the prequels SW is only 3 movies. no clone wars tv show. no spinoff films. oh, aside from the Ewok movies nobody wants to bring up (even Disney, bizarrely?) and the Holiday Special.

without the prequels i doubt Lucas could have even sold SW. prequels added tons of characters, tons of media, tons of stories, it hinted at the KOTOR, it created games. basically the entire post-2k SW empire comes out of the PT. if anything it is a massive proof of concept that the brand could extend infinitely, even when the movies are getting crapped on by mainstream people.

feel like people think whether or not critics like a thing matters far more than it does. it doesn't.
The prequels were trash and lowered what was acceptable as Star Wars. The clone wars could have been done without them and plenty of media pre the OT was around before them.

Been a Star Wars fan since 85 what you’re saying is laughable.
 

megamerican

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She appears to be both a micromanager and an overseer with no actual vision. The worst of both worlds.

She's done more harm than good for the franchise in the long term. If I was a director of any repute I would definitely stay the fuck away from Star Wars under her.