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Should Disney hold Kathleen Kennedy responsible for the fall of Star Wars brand?

Pagusas

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Prosper, Tx
Nothing JJ does is worth any hype. He's the biggest con man since Paul Newman in The Sting.
yeah,no. You are full of it. JJ commands an insanely efficient crew and knows what he’s doing. You may not like his style or results, but the man knows what he is doing and delivers insanely well polished products. Hating him is like hating Apple, you can say you hate what they do, or find their products boring, but you can’t honestly say they aren’t made well on average.
 
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ExpandKong

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yeah,no. You are full of it. JJ commands an insanely efficient crew and knows what he’s doing. You may not like his style or results, but the man knows what he is doing and delivers insanely well polished products. Hating him is like hating Apple, you can say you hate what they do, or find their products boring, but you can’t honestly say they aren’t made well on average.
Just because he’s able to put a movie out doesn’t mean it’s a good movie dude.
 

Ownage

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yeah,no. You are full of it. JJ commands an insanely efficient crew and knows what he’s doing. You may not like his style or results, but the man knows what he is doing and delivers insanely well polished products. Hating him is like hating Apple, you can say you hate what they do, or find their products boring, but you can’t honestly say they aren’t made well on average.
You got me, busted. I absolutely hate Apple, and have seen some of their products with bugs. They also were a client, so there's more than conjecture there. But I'll give them the benefit that they're less terrible than JJ. Alias, LOST...even his early stuff blew their load way before peak. Not a single thing he's had his paws on has ever followed thru with hype.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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#1 sin was splitting up the OT three. we don't need them to be the center of the story. we don't need them to be major characters. all we wanted was those three actors in a room together. they had to fuck it up. fuck them FOREVER for this.

KK's picks for directors was a prime fuckup as well. there are so many better directors she could have chosen. what about Steven Spielberg? what about Wes Anderson? that dude has mad design skills, and he is a master of retro aesthetics, imagine him doing a 70's dollhouse Altman style comedy Star Wars.

after directors, the fuck up was writers, why have these same people write their own movie? they are already directing a movie, now they have to write it as well, in such a limited time window? they aren't great writers. here's a suggestion: hire some writers. hire some sci fi authors. hey, maybe you don't even need to hire them, maybe there are longtime writers as Lucasfilm?

which leads us to this: there was this vast treasure trove of stories, all these comics and books and things KK said they "did not have". BULLSHIT. when she said that they have "no source material", it was inexcusable. can you believe this? just bold faced lying.

third and maybe the worst, they just didn't give these movies enough time in the oven. the trilogy should have each had 1 extra year between them. if not additional filming, then simply use that time for planning. JJ's interviews for this one are hilarious in depicting this frantic man "running a race" to the finish line. LOL. that's not really the best environment for a creative endeavour.
 
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Pagusas

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Just because he’s able to put a movie out doesn’t mean it’s a good movie dude.
I never said it was good, I said he’s got a great crew and makes a polished product. He is NOT a con man. He’s not ripping Disney off, he’s not claiming to have some skills he doesn’t, he’s very good at producing flashy blockbusters that make money and please a good amount of people.

RotS is in every single regard better than TLJ, and it’s still not a “good” movie. Rian is also not a hack or con.
 
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Diatribe1974

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It doesn't matter as much of who the stories are about and involve, as long as you A) Respect the Canon and B) Respect the Fanbase.

Do both and you have almost every single Star Wars fan following you down whatever path you want to take us with your stories. Inject PC nonsense into it (just to do it), disregard the canon, call the fanbase that kept the universe as rich and vibrant for the past 30+ years, and you will drive away those same rabid fans you once claim to want.
 
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CausticVenom

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I never said it was good, I said he’s got a great crew and makes a polished product. He is NOT a con man. He’s not ripping Disney off, he’s not claiming to have some skills he doesn’t, he’s very good at producing flashy blockbusters that make money and please a good amount of people.

RotS is in every single regard better than TLJ, and it’s still not a “good” movie. Rian is also not a hack or con.
Take that back, nave. RotS IS a great movie!!

Nah you like what you like, but I genuinely thought that RotS was up there with the OT.
 

#Phonepunk#

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I never said it was good, I said he’s got a great crew and makes a polished product. He is NOT a con man. He’s not ripping Disney off, he’s not claiming to have some skills he doesn’t, he’s very good at producing flashy blockbusters that make money and please a good amount of people.

RotS is in every single regard better than TLJ, and it’s still not a “good” movie. Rian is also not a hack or con.
these people aren't hacks, the fact that they are able to cobble together anything given mismanagement and poor rushed planning is kind of a wonder. clearly they are talented and very good craftsmen. the idea of either one of them directing a SW movie is still pretty appealing to me. just for the love of God let someone else write it.

this is the main problem. the writing has been terrible. not just the plot, not just additions to the canon, but dialog, character behavior, etc. Rey and Han finishing each other's sentences is not a thing that should exist outside of bad fan fiction. it's the kind of thing a good writer would get rid of during the drafting phase. but here it is, in the final movie. there are a lot of things a good writer could iron out, even leaving the general story the way it is, that would vastly improve TFA and Rey's reception as a Mary Sue.

TLJ on the other hand would need a total rewrite. Rian Johnson was unable to write the Poe-Finn buddy adventure story everyone was salivating for, so he came up with Rose instead, and made the terrible Canto Bight sequence. unable to write a good story for them, Rian had Finn & Poe spend half the movie separated and getting yelled at by untrustworthy characters. good writers would probably be able to do the job he was unable to do. he complained that the two characters got along too well and he couldn't create drama from them. hire a writer who can. these are two of the main characters and the director admits he was unable to make drama from an original story pairing them up. this is a huge problem. no wonder the ST is a mess.

the directors are fine, they just need to hire decent writers.
 
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Shodan09

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It's a fascinating situation to be honest. There's nothing wrong with trying to broaden a demographic for your product, it happens all the time. But this is the only case I can think of where there's been an attempt to replace a fanbase rather than compliment it.

You get what you fucking deserve, I guess.
 

Shodan09

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these people aren't hacks, the fact that they are able to cobble together anything given mismanagement and poor rushed planning is kind of a wonder. clearly they are talented and very good craftsmen. the idea of either one of them directing a SW movie is still pretty appealing to me. just for the love of God let someone else write it.

this is the main problem. the writing has been terrible. not just the plot, not just additions to the canon, but dialog, character behavior, etc. Rey and Han finishing each other's sentences is not a thing that should exist outside of bad fan fiction. it's the kind of thing a good writer would get rid of during the drafting phase. but here it is, in the final movie. there are a lot of things a good writer could iron out, even leaving the general story the way it is, that would vastly improve TFA and Rey's reception as a Mary Sue.

TLJ on the other hand would need a total rewrite. Rian Johnson was unable to write the Poe-Finn buddy adventure story everyone was salivating for, so he came up with Rose instead, and made the terrible Canto Bight sequence. unable to write a good story for them, Rian had Finn & Poe spend half the movie separated and getting yelled at by untrustworthy characters. good writers would probably be able to do the job he was unable to do. he complained that the two characters got along too well and he couldn't create drama from them. hire a writer who can. these are two of the main characters and the director admits he was unable to make drama from an original story pairing them up. this is a huge problem. no wonder the ST is a mess.

the directors are fine, they just need to hire decent writers.
Didn't he actively avoid writing a Finn Poe buddy story because they were both men too? Just one example of where agenda destroyed story telling.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Didn't he actively avoid writing a Finn Poe buddy story because they were both men too? Just one example of where agenda destroyed story telling.
no i think he said he was unable to generate any conflict or interesting dynamic between the two characters.

i'll say it again: the writer-director was unable to write an interesting storyline featuring two of the three main characters in his film. like, he has publicly admitted this, as absurd as it sounds.

it could be that Rian is only able to see drama in identity politics terms. certainly interesting that both Poe and Finn were split off and paired with women who spent most of the time lecturing them. Rose was basically a get out of jail free card for him, avoid any criticism due to her casting, and also, use her to make up for Rian's lack of storytelling abilities.
 
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Kadayi

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SW TROS box office number is collapsing


yowzaa!!!
Oof. That data ain't good.


Honestly, I think the abject mishandling of the Franchise post-Lucas has been fucking hilarious. Its just one big 'Youhadonejob.gif' of endless amusement and facepalm incredulity from start to finish. Kennedy was a misfire from the outset because she has no passion for the material, and more importantly any sense of where to take it in terms of a new direction versus retreading the familiar.

Post -TROJ there were a million ways to tell a new story of a conflict between the forces of light and dark and to have the heroes of the past gracefully hand over the baton to a new generation for fans of all ages to get behind, but bringing in JJ Abrams with his Mystery Box BS and lack of an overview and essentially allowing him to just reboot the Empire with Stormtroopers, Star Destroyers and a Deathstar was quite possibly the most creatively bankrupt choice ever. A New Hope didn't require a remix. A new story needed to be told.

The worst part is. I dare say the heads of Disney absolutely know they fucked up with allowing someone without any creative vision to manage the IP, but the sunk cost is too much at this juncture to pull out, so they've now lumbered the franchise canon with all the flim-flam BS that both Abrams and Johnson introduced. Congratulationyouplayedyourself.gif
 

sol_bad

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prag16

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God damn, apart from Solo look at those domestic and foreign totals being higher with the Disney films than they are with the prequel series.

Disney

Prequels

How horrible that Disney have grown the brand since the prequels released.
Gotta adjust for ticket price inflation. And in any case I doubt a downward trend from 7 -> 8 -> 9 is being celebrated internally at Disney as much as you're celebrating it.
 

sol_bad

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Gotta adjust for ticket price inflation. And in any case I doubt a downward trend from 7 -> 8 -> 9 is being celebrated internally at Disney as much as you're celebrating it.
I've done that already in other threads somewhere.
Although I doubt studios themselves would adjust for inflation. Wouldn't make sense, they'd be concerned about the current market.

They'd know that they'd never reach the same heights of episode 7, no studio ever could. Guaranteed that Avengers 5 won't make more than Endgame. They also knew that episode 9 would be an upward struggle after all the negativity that episode 8 got.

Episode 4, 5, 6 were on a downward spiral as well and I'm sure Fox didn't care as long as they made profit.

I'm sure Disney will be very happy with episode 9's numbers.
I'm sure they're happy to start fresh, refocus and move away from the Skywalker saga.

*FAKE EDIT*
Episode 4 - $503,000,000 = $2,100,000,000 today
Episode 5 - $400,000,000 = $1,200,000,000 today
Episode 6 - $374,000,000 = $965,000,000 today
Episode 1 - $924,000,000 = $1,426,000,000 today
Episode 2 - $640,000,000 = $915,000,000 today
Episode 3 - $849,000,000 = $1,118,000,000 today

Episode 7 - $2,068,000,000 = $2,224,000,000 today
Episode 8 - $1, 332,000,000 = $1,397,000,000 today
Rogue One - $1,056,000,000 = $1,131,000,000 today
Solo - $392,000,000 = $401,000,000 today

New movies are still doing pretty well apart from Solo.
 
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I'd say its largely JJ Abrams.

I actually really liked his two Star Trek movies. But those, as well as his Spielberg wankfest Super 8, proved that he cant do any original ideas. He just faps over nostalgia.

Hiring someone with an actual vision with an outline for a whole trilogy would have been far better.

He played it hilariously safe. Last Jedi is mediocre, but at least it didnt feel like a rehash of the other movies like the JJ Abrams stuff did.
 
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gioGAF

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I'd say its largely JJ Abrams.

I actually really liked his two Star Trek movies. But those, as well as his Spielberg wankfest Super 8, proved that he cant do any original ideas. He just faps over nostalgia.

Hiring someone with an actual vision with an outline for a whole trilogy would have been far better.

He played it hilariously safe. Last Jedi is mediocre, but at least it didnt feel like a rehash of the other movies like the JJ Abrams stuff did.
Not going to argue your point on JJ, but the underlined is just not true. TLJ is just as much of a rehash as TFA, except that it is less interesting and downright insulting to the fan base.

The bad guys chase the good guys in space: Empire did this better.
The young Jedi seeks the Jedi master to improve their mastery of the force: Empire did this better.
Deactivate gadget located in evil lair: New Hope did this better.
Go on a "cantina" adventure: New Hope did this better.
Battle in the throne room with the "rebels" fighting in the distance: Return of the Jedi did this better.
Our heroes face off against the bad guys on a white-surface planet: Empire did this better.

Reshuffling sequences from the original trilogy doesn't constitute originality or "taking a chance". As rehashed as TFA was, at least it took the existing history into account AND treated it with respect.

TLJ does the same rehashing but replaces the outcomes with jokes or "surprises" (something so dumb that the audience wouldn't see it coming because it is just dumb story telling). I was able to easily predict what was going to happen midway through the movie, if it looked like something I might be interested in or think is cool, I knew it wasn't going to happen. By the time the so-called "Luke redemption" took place (hint, it isn't, he is still a coward and supremely irresponsible), I knew it was some stupid trick and not an actual confrontation.

Then TLJ proceeds to shit all over most of the main characters:
Finn: becomes a joke character that is constantly corrected by new dumb character that has no purpose being there (seriously, make Rose the hacker instead of just a baggage claim/security guard that for some reason ends up tagging along for the ride, providing ZERO value).

Bad guys: all become caricature villains, one throwing 2 year old tantrums while the other becomes a slapstick punching bag for the tantrum guy. Main boss is tossed aside so that the protagonists can fight nameless red dudes instead (how bad would RotJ have been if the Emperor had tripped into the furnace and Luke had to fight a few Storm Troopers afterwards, yawn, but I guess expectations would have been "subverted").

Rey: basically on stasis until late in the movie, hanging out with Jake Skywalker, since Luke was apparently unavailable.

Beloved characters: disrespected throughout.
- Luke is the victim of character assassination (seriously, Mark Hamill comes back to play the iconic Luke Skywalker once again and this is the way they treat him?).
- Admiral Akbar: dies off-screen, never to be seen or mentioned again.
- Chewie: director decides to CUT the Chewie and Luke reunion from the film! WTF!

I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made. I truly hate TLJ as a film, as a piece of entertainment, as canon for the Star Wars universe, for what it did to the legacy characters, for what it did to the new characters AND for all the political bullshit they put into it (so much for "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...). And of course, let us not forget Admiral Gender Studies, the cherry on top.
 
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Not going to argue your point on JJ, but the underlined is just not true. TLJ is just as much of a rehash as TFA, except that it is less interesting and downright insulting to the fan base.

The bad guys chase the good guys in space: Empire did this better.
The young Jedi seeks the Jedi master to improve their mastery of the force: Empire did this better.
Deactivate gadget located in evil lair: New Hope did this better.
Go on a "cantina" adventure: New Hope did this better.
Battle in the throne room with the "rebels" fighting in the distance: Return of the Jedi did this better.
Our heroes face off against the bad guys on a white-surface planet: Empire did this better.

Reshuffling sequences from the original trilogy doesn't constitute originality or "taking a chance". As rehashed as TFA was, at least it took the existing history into account AND treated it with respect.

TLJ does the same rehashing but replaces the outcomes with jokes or "surprises" (something so dumb that the audience wouldn't see it coming because it is just dumb story telling). I was able to easily predict what was going to happen midway through the movie, if it looked like something I might be interested in or think is cool, I knew it wasn't going to happen. By the time the so-called "Luke redemption" took place (hint, it isn't, he is still a coward and supremely irresponsible), I knew it was some stupid trick and not an actual confrontation.

Then TLJ proceeds to shit all over most of the main characters:
Finn: becomes a joke character that is constantly corrected by new dumb character that has no purpose being there (seriously, make Rose the hacker instead of just a baggage claim/security guard that for some reason ends up tagging along for the ride, providing ZERO value).

Bad guys: all become caricature villains, one throwing 2 year old tantrums while the other becomes a slapstick punching bag for the tantrum guy. Main boss is tossed aside so that the protagonists can fight nameless red dudes instead (how bad would RotJ have been if the Emperor had tripped into the furnace and Luke had to fight a few Storm Troopers afterwards, yawn, but I guess expectations would have been "subverted").

Rey: basically on stasis until late in the movie, hanging out with Jake Skywalker, since Luke was apparently unavailable.

Beloved characters: disrespected throughout.
- Luke is the victim of character assassination (seriously, Mark Hamill comes back to play the iconic Luke Skywalker once again and this is the way they treat him?).
- Admiral Akbar: dies off-screen, never to be seen or mentioned again.
- Chewie: director decides to CUT the Chewie and Luke reunion from the film! WTF!

I could go on and on, but I think the point has been made. I truly hate TLJ as a film, as a piece of entertainment, as canon for the Star Wars universe, for what it did to the legacy characters, for what it did to the new characters AND for all the political bullshit they put into it (so much for "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...). And of course, let us not forget Admiral Gender Studies, the cherry on top.
Luke being the opposite of what people expected was the best part of the movie. It just needed a better backstory. Rian Johnson was completely in the right making Luke the way he was.

Expecting Luke to remain the same Luke for so many years is nonsense. Fans are stupid. They could have given it a much better and more convincing backstory, but him turning into a jaded douche was the best part.

Star Wars fans bitch about the new trilogy being unoriginal. Then they complain when it does things differently. They just want to bitch about everything, including stupid shit like a character being black or Asian.

Lesson? Star Wars fans are fucking stupid. Probably the dumbest current fanbase out there
 
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Kadayi

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Luke being the opposite of what people expected was the best part of the movie. It just needed a better backstory. Rian Johnson was completely in the right making Luke the way he was.
The contradictory nature of those statements is fucking hilarious. Something is either good, or it isn't. Clearly judging by the largely negative fan response it wasn't, though feel free to imply anyone who says so is quite clearly a sexist, racist imbecile. That always goes down well with people here. :pie_eyeroll:

Still the threads not about defending the sanctity of Rian Johnson's middling act but whether Kathleen Kennedy has done a good job steering the IP ship post-Lucas. Hand on Porg Tattoo can you honestly say she's done that?
 
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CausticVenom

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Luke being the opposite of what people expected was the best part of the movie. It just needed a better backstory. Rian Johnson was completely in the right making Luke the way he was.

Expecting Luke to remain the same Luke for so many years is nonsense. Fans are stupid. They could have given it a much better and more convincing backstory, but him turning into a jaded douche was the best part.

Star Wars fans bitch about the new trilogy being unoriginal. Then they complain when it does things differently. They just want to bitch about everything, including stupid shit like a character being black or Asian.

Lesson? Star Wars fans are fucking stupid. Probably the dumbest current fanbase out there
Maybe they should have made a better movie? There are plenty of things that Rian copied from Empire.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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Star Wars fans bitch about the new trilogy being unoriginal. Then they complain when it does things differently.
when have things been done differently? the Last Jedi wasn't different it was a rehash of Empire. Luke refused to train her like Yoda refused to train him. they do the dark tree hole thing. they do the "don't go, this won't work" thing. all of that just ripped off from Empire. Rey going anyways, ripped off from Empire. her getting a shocking revelation about her family, ripped off from Empire. do i need to go on?

the problem isn't that it was different. it wasn't. the problem was it was boring. sitting on an island for half the movie complaining to the only other human on the island is not interesting. it's not that i wanted this one specific awesome thing. it's that sitting in a single boring island that looks like any random island on Earth is not interesting in itself. when i go to see a Space Fantasy Adventure i don't want to see them sitting around in Ireland complaining about things that happened in the past. it's not that it's "too different". it's not interesting.

Luke turning away from the force could have meant to many interesting things, maybe there is a force cave on the island haunted by corrupting dark side energy, maybe he is trapped by some dark side power, maybe Rey has to save him, or there is some kind of lead to something that will show up in movie 3, introduce some new settings, maybe some new lore, etc. but no, there is just nothing there. "Jedi text" and "Jedi tree" (next time come up with some proper names, Rian) are the bare minimum and have all the depth of action figure accessories. no, we get nothing, just a lot of moping and whining. and guess what, that's nothing new for Luke!

the whole "it's so different!" myth is such a line of bullshit. but it's a convenient one so it's not surprising to see it still going. honestly it feels like gaslighting. i remember being in the theater and breathing a sigh of relief when he threw away the lightsaber thinking "thank god we don't have to sit through a bunch of training sequences on this boring island" and then of course for the next 40 minutes we do exactly that. it's wasn't "too different" it was the same old shit just done poorly.

it's not that fans expected one specific thing. in truth he just made a shitty, boring, cyncial movie and just uses a natural reaction to a plot that goes nowhere and unlikable characters to say "OH DUMB FANS ONLY WANT DUMB THINGS."
 
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sol_bad

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When The Last Jedi came out, the primary complaints were about Snoke dying, Rey being a nobody, Canto Bight and Luke being a grumpy nobody.
This narrative has changed and evolved over the last couple of years to suit whatever narrative needs to be pushed at the time.

Three of those complaints are simply people not getting what they wished for. The Canto Bight "issue" is only an issue if you look at it on a surface level.

Sure, some of the story beats mimic ESB but Johnson still did interesting things on a character level that far exceeds the OT. He also set it up for future potential that was not reached. No one knew how the 3rd film would play out, Rey and Kylo are both amazing characters and seeing their struggles was fascinating to watch.

Most people who complain about The Last Jedi have mostly only seen the film once in the cinemas and never watched it again. Or if they did watch it again it was "on in the background" while they did something else and they weren't paying attention. What these people have done though is watch hours and hours of Youtube videos and so their mental memory of the film has been twisted beyond what the actual film represents.
 
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Kadayi

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Most people who complain about The Last Jedi have mostly only seen the film once in the cinemas and never watched it again. Or if they did watch it again it was "on in the background" while they did something else and they weren't paying attention. What these people have done though is watch hours and hours of Youtube videos and so their mental memory of the film has been twisted beyond what the actual film represents.
So you're saying that increased exposure to the source somehow makes it more palatable? That if people eat enough shit sandwiches then eventually they'll forget that eating shit?

People watched it and didn't like it, and they have issues with it on many levels. Accept it.
 
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sol_bad

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So you're saying that increased exposure to the source somehow makes it more palatable? That if people eat enough shit sandwiches then eventually they'll forget that eating shit?

People watched it and didn't like it, and they have issues with it on many levels. Accept it.
I accept it and I know there are issues with the film. But like I said, the hate has increased and been twisted due to the Youtube generation.
As bad as the prequel films are, people still watch and enjoy them.
Last Jedi is a better made, filmed, acted, edited and produced film in every conceivable way compared to those films. If it were released in the early 2000's it wouldn't have the same amount of vitriol that it currently does.
 
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Bolivar687

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The ST numbers are inflated by 3D/IMAX/RealD prices. Should've been much more. Preauels would have made way more, especially I and III, and they're still leagues better anyway.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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Most people who complain about The Last Jedi have mostly only seen the film once in the cinemas and never watched it again. Or if they did watch it again it was "on in the background" while they did something else and they weren't paying attention. What these people have done though is watch hours and hours of Youtube videos and so their mental memory of the film has been twisted beyond what the actual film represents.
Saw it for the second time full through just last Sunday and it managed to be worse than when I initially saw it.
 
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Azurro

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I accept it and I know there are issues with the film. But like I said, the hate has increased and been twisted due to the Youtube generation.
As bad as the prequel films are, people still watch and enjoy them.
Last Jedi is a better made, filmed, acted, edited and produced film in every conceivable way compared to those films. If it were released in the early 2000's it wouldn't have the same amount of vitriol that it currently does.
Nah, that's bs, people were making fun of the prequel trilogy and talking about how shit Jar Jar, Anakin, etc are and that's the exact timeframe you are talking about. TLJ is worse than any of those movies.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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Damn, I'd been following the numbers, but that is a crazy drop off for the Friday night. That's never going to even match TLJ .

I don't think Disney will be giving JJ any greenlights after this. 🤔
Honestly kinda sucks since ROS was the best of the ST so far.

But you can probably blame the handling of this by KK and Roundheads disaster.
 
Probably a perfect storm of bad for TRoS.

TLJ hangover, SW fatigue in general, bad reviews and word of mouth ahead of time.. All on top of a generally just OK movie.

I imagine if Carrie Fisher lived, this would have had a lot more of her training Rey and being more involved, so TFA would be Han's movie, TLJ Luke's, and TRoS Leia's.

I still think not getting them all together at least once in TFA was the biggest mistake of all.
 

gatti-man

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SW TROS box office number is collapsing


yowzaa!!!
Let’s be real this trilogy already made way more than it deserved. But I don’t think the IP has been poisoned. The fact that the madalorian is such a success and meme factory says plenty of people still like the When it’s actually done right.
 

Kadayi

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Let’s be real this trilogy already made way more than it deserved. But I don’t think the IP has been poisoned. The fact that the madalorian is such a success and meme factory says plenty of people still like the When it’s actually done right.
You know that all the horseshit Abrams and Johnson fished out of their asses is all essentially SW canon now right? Filmwise, where does Lucasfilm go exactly? If you go forward you have to contend with a post-Abrams/Johnson universe and if you go back, then you're stuck mining the past (which has already been trampled), with everyone knowing where the train eventually goes off the rails (which the new game of thrones show will have to contend with, in the wake of GOT season 8 and many peoples indifference).

The Mandalorian got a pass because it A) it didn't try and be more than its ambitions of Kurosawa in Space, and B) it kept its stories nice and simple in line with the OT, and C) Baby Yoda is cute and cool.

It had a decent first season for what is ostensively a kids show at the end of the day, but albeit I dare say its future is in safe hands with Favreau and Filoni running things, that does necessarily translate to the movies going forward, unless there is a major shakeup in management


You can absolutely guarantee that no one on the Disney board is looking at the diminishing returns of the Star Wars films post the initial success of TFA (riding the wave of fans just eager for more Star Wars after so long) and is happy with the drop-off. That's not what's supposed to happen. The idea is to grow interest, not lose it. Marvel, on the other hand, has been a phenomenal success.

I think once the dust settles on RoS in terms of the financials. Disney will quietly push Kennedy out once Iger has found a suitable replacement, though it's probably likely Kevin Feige will be given the reins as he's already started developing some work for Lucasfilm according to the Hollywood reporter.


That whole thing reads like a saving face move to position Feige to take over and Kennedy to 'resign' to spend more time with her family etc, or 'pursue other projects'. Feige headed up the whole of the MCU to great success. You don't get a man in like that to work on one film.
 
They are in a weird space where.. They have like 30 years to mine between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens, but can't really use any of the actors people want to see. They can do cartoons and books and stuff, but movies would largely not work, unless they come up with some Rogue One-esque stories to make, but literally everyone will be wanting to see middle age Han/Luke/Leia.

Doing early Republic stuff... Ehhhhhhh. Could be okay, but probably not going to crack a billion dollars unless they're literally better than the OT.
 
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gatti-man

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You know that all the horseshit Abrams and Johnson fished out of their asses is all essentially SW canon now right? Filmwise, where does Lucasfilm go exactly? If you go forward you have to contend with a post-Abrams/Johnson universe and if you go back, then you're stuck mining the past (which has already been trampled), with everyone knowing where the train eventually goes off the rails (which the new game of thrones show will have to contend with, in the wake of GOT season 8 and many peoples indifference).

The Mandalorian got a pass because it A) it didn't try and be more than its ambitions of Kurosawa in Space, and B) it kept its stories nice and simple in line with the OT, and C) Baby Yoda is cute and cool.

It had a decent first season for what is ostensively a kids show at the end of the day, but albeit I dare say its future is in safe hands with Favreau and Filoni running things, that does necessarily translate to the movies going forward, unless there is a major shakeup in management


You can absolutely guarantee that no one on the Disney board is looking at the diminishing returns of the Star Wars films post the initial success of TFA (riding the wave of fans just eager for more Star Wars after so long) and is happy with the drop-off. That's not what's supposed to happen. The idea is to grow interest, not lose it. Marvel, on the other hand, has been a phenomenal success.

I think once the dust settles on RoS in terms of the financials. Disney will quietly push Kennedy out once Iger has found a suitable replacement, though it's probably likely Kevin Feige will be given the reins as he's already started developing some work for Lucasfilm according to the Hollywood reporter.


That whole thing reads like a saving face move to position Feige to take over and Kennedy to 'resign' to spend more time with her family etc, or 'pursue other projects'. Feige headed up the whole of the MCU to great success. You don't get a man in like that to work on one film.
They should go into the past (which they are) and if they actually find footing then stay there. Or they could just skip ahead of the current mess and start over there too.
 

DeafTourette

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I'd rather they go into the future... Remember, even the ST is "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away"
 

Kadayi

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They should go into the past (which they are) and if they actually find footing then stay there. Or they could just skip ahead of the current mess and start over there too.
I already pointed out the flaws in both strategies. This is where they are at: -



TBH at this juncture, they need to just nuke the site from orbit and actively get down to re-imagining the whole SW IP from scratch (which would have been the sensible play when they acquired it in the first place) which would afford them the opportunity to sort out a whole bunch of BS from the prequels amongst other things in the process as well (and just forget the latest films even existed). However, I suspect the sunk cost with stuff like Galaxies Edge would make that an unpalatable proposition for the Disney Board.
 
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oagboghi2

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I accept it and I know there are issues with the film. But like I said, the hate has increased and been twisted due to the Youtube generation.
As bad as the prequel films are, people still watch and enjoy them.
Last Jedi is a better made, filmed, acted, edited and produced film in every conceivable way compared to those films. If it were released in the early 2000's it wouldn't have the same amount of vitriol that it currently does.
Sy-co-phant. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I already pointed out the flaws in both strategies. This is where they are at: -



TBH at this juncture, they need to just nuke the site from orbit and actively get down to re-imagining the whole SW IP from scratch (which would have been the sensible play when they acquired it in the first place) which would afford them the opportunity to sort out a whole bunch of BS from the prequels amongst other things in the process as well (and just forget the latest films even existed). However, I suspect the sunk cost with stuff like Galaxies Edge would make that an unpalatable proposition for the Disney Board.
Disney put themselves in a terrible position, and I feel zero sympathy for them
 
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gatti-man

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I already pointed out the flaws in both strategies. This is where they are at: -



TBH at this juncture, they need to just nuke the site from orbit and actively get down to re-imagining the whole SW IP from scratch (which would have been the sensible play when they acquired it in the first place) which would afford them the opportunity to sort out a whole bunch of BS from the prequels amongst other things in the process as well (and just forget the latest films even existed). However, I suspect the sunk cost with stuff like Galaxies Edge would make that an unpalatable proposition for the Disney Board.
No that’s a terrible idea. Just go past and future. If you reboot Star Wars over the same time period it’s going to be incredibly stale when there are already good stories to tell in the distant past.

I don’t think most people give a shit about canon or what is and is not possible in Star Wars. I think trilogy continuity is important and canon is important withina given story but not the entire universe of films I think that’s far more flexible.
 

dan76

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I think KK is to blame. She obviously had pressure from Iger to get a film out asap, hired JJ because of what he did with Star Trek, then it went off the rails. I believe a lot of the reddit leak, where story group don't really like JJ but loved Rian Johnson.

I also think she wanted to push an agenda above anything else and for Disney to seem to be progressive, giving RJ the freedom to add more pointless characters - Rose, Holdo - that bent Star Wars way out of shape. These new characters were only in TLJ because of the agenda they were serving, the writing was so weak and transparent, but it does the "right thing" in killing Luke so it gets a free pass. Apart from TLJ it seems like every other film has been difficult to make, directors fired, studio meddling, last minute reshots, who the fuck knows.

KK has been a successful producer, but look who she has had the biggest successes with. What part did she play? A lot of producers get the funding together, have relationships with studios, agents etc, other producers are very creative and less involved in the financing. It's such a broad term in the film industry. I think KK thought she could get creative with this, move the stories towards a more progressive agenda with new characters (meaning she wanted rid of the old characters) and she screwed up in a massive way.

Or maybe directors and screen writers just aren't as good as they used to be. How could JJ have Chewey walk past Leia after Hans death? Why did Mark Hamill have to suggest a small moment between him and C3-PO? Even little details like these seem obvious to most Star Wars fans, but apparently not to the idiots making the films.
 

residentgrigo

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She is a problem (not that she is a total hack, look up her IMDB credits) but I blame Bog Iger for all of this. Loop up a pdf of his book (the easy to find SW chapter is enough) but here is a summary for those who don´t want to read. This is essential to know for long time SW fans:

He is 100% gone in fall of 2021. I don´t see KK lasting either. That said. Here are my final IMDB scores n "her" 5 films. All scores were rounded down over there (this is a reference, please watch Solo):

TFA - Fun nostalgia wank. I can see why Disney saw that SW needed a fun E4-6 summary in 2015 and a solid way to introduce China to SW. 7/10
TLJ - Good ideas, flawed execution. Currently being de-canonized by the sequel and the EU. - 6/10
TROS - The 2nd viewing yesterday proofed to me that this is THE worst SW film ever. No competition. The film´s editing and shot continuity alone is Razzy worthy! 3/10

R0 and Solo. No complaints even if the broken production process can be felt at times. 8,5/10
She is only an executive on Mando but fair is fair. 8,5/10

PS: I 100% would have preferred seeing George´s scripts regardless of the outcome and he likes RO. He even directed a scene in Solo. CW would have run for at least 7 (but more like 8) 24 eps seasons under him too:

Edit: Rebel is an 8/10, Fallen Order a 7,5/10, BF 2 a 7/10, etc. Many comics and books are good to great. It´s the way that Lucas Films is run that is aggravating and clearly holding down all else down.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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look who she has had the biggest successes with. What part did she play?
she was getting a lot of genre films produced. the difference is the general culture, we had better filmmakers back then, and more creative storytellers. at the very least postmodern irony hadn't poisoned everything with cynicism and nihilism.

ultimately i think KK is probably just doing what she's always done, it's the people she chose that let her down. Joe Dante at his peak is a hundred times better than Rian Johnson and Stephen Spielberg at his peak is at least ten thousand times better than JJ Abrams.

if someone bought the rights to the Beatles, and they got all the album rights and trademark and naming rights, and they got some new musicians in, and said "These are now the Beatles, please enjoy these new Beatles albums" and they recorded albums of new material, there is slim to none chance it would be "like it was", or any guarantee that the new material will be satisfying in any way.
 
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residentgrigo

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if someone bought the rights to the Beatles, and they got all the album rights and trademark and naming rights, and they got some new musicians in, and said "These are now the Beatles, please enjoy these new Beatles albums" and they recorded albums of new material, there is slim to none chance it would be "like it was", or any guarantee that the new material will be satisfying in any way.
Did you just suggest that SW 2015-2019 is like Woodstock '99:

Woodstock 50
was even canceled:

How many were canceled by now? No Rian on his list. Still waiting for any info buddy...
Rian could make a good one with the right guidance and totally new... everything.