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Should humans eat meat for non-moral reasons?

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We all know the various miracle diets: paleo, keto, sugarless, vegan, pigeon, sugar only... or something.

All of them are high-profile diets (or fads) and can be summarized as three ideas of what humans are supposed to eat and what humans are. First off, we have the idea of humans as natural apex predator carnivores. Second, we have the idea of humans as banana, berry, and high fat avocado eater. And third is give or take the modern 'dunno, donna care' diet (the sugary one).

Except when someone bothers to actually ask "what do humans eat", there's no case for any of them: Debunking The Paleo Diet

Now don't me wrong, the 'sugar overdose' diet is definitely not looking good (and I would not recommend it if you want to live long). However, we can ask whether it matters if your goal is weight loss and you're using a calorie deficit.
It's a lot easier to reach that goal on a high-fat and / or high-protein diet, but that's another matter.


But here's the thing, and I'm asking because it's been bothering me in the context of fitness and weight / fat loss: there is no compelling evidence that humans are made or even meant to eat meat other than the occasional special event of some kind, yet we maintain this idea that we are apex predator carnivores and we've even tied the idea of eating meat to masculinity. As if you couldn't be a man if you just ate eggs instead of meat? Or fucking broccoli for that matter?

So aside from the very specific purpose of using a high-protein, high-fat diet to lose weight, and the very specific amino acids found in meat, what possible reason would people with a 'normal' weight have to eat meat? or least in the quantities and frequency we're used to in Western countries?
The issue is that fat can be gained from cheese as well (a common dish component outside of the West), and protein could just as easily be gained from beans, tofu and other agricultural vegetables we've created over time.

Is there a non-moral, non-normative reason (like say, statistical instead) to give for why we should consume meat, given that we don't lose access to eggs, diary, and other possible animal products?

This is not a pro-vegan thread or whatever, just to clarify. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.
 

Metroxed

Member
We are apex predator omnivores, no carnivores. Stil, meat has always been part of our diet with no reason in particular other that we can digest it so we eat it, like many other meat-eating animals do.
 

D i Z

Member
It tastes good. Many find meat satisfying to consume beyond just the taste, but also texture etc. As a society we recognize its use and benefits, and its value in cultivation and consumption (for the most part).
 
Edit: Derp reading comprehension.

There's an argument that many people have the compulsion to hunt and eat meat as being a part of what it means human to them. Some people garden, some people gather, some people hunt, it's what some people need to do.
 

Joey Fox

Self-Actualized Member
If eggs and milk are ok, then protein intake is more than covered for the weightlifting crowd.

However, I think the protein per calorie of purely vegetarian foods is too expensive to accomplish, needing whey protein powder or unappealing tofu.

Take black beans. If I were to eat nothing but those, which would be a sad existence, I could only get 104 grams of protein on my diet of about 1500 calories. Weight lifters like to get 0.8 gram/pound or more of the weight they're targeting, which would put me 24 grams short.

My solution? Eat a little fish. It's not like we get vegetable protein sources from the sea, and the protein per calorie ratio is fantastic.
 

Fluvian

Banned
We all know the various miracle diets: paleo, keto, sugarless, vegan, pigeon, sugar only... or something.

All of them are high-profile diets (or fads) and can be summarized as three ideas of what humans are supposed to eat and what humans are. First off, we have the idea of humans as natural apex predator carnivores. Second, we have the idea of humans as banana, berry, and high fat avocado eater. And third is give or take the modern 'dunno, donna care' diet (the sugary one).

Except when someone bothers to actually ask "what do humans eat", there's no case for any of them: Debunking The Paleo Diet

Now don't me wrong, the 'sugar overdose' diet is definitely not looking good (and I would not recommend it if you want to live long). However, we can ask whether it matters if your goal is weight loss and you're using a calorie deficit.
It's a lot easier to reach that goal on a high-fat and / or high-protein diet, but that's another matter.


But here's the thing, and I'm asking because it's been bothering me in the context of fitness and weight / fat loss: there is no compelling evidence that humans are made or even meant to eat meat other than the occasional special event of some kind, yet we maintain this idea that we are apex predator carnivores and we've even tied the idea of eating meat to masculinity. As if you couldn't be a man if you just ate eggs instead of meat? Or fucking broccoli for that matter?

So aside from the very specific purpose of using a high-protein, high-fat diet to lose weight, and the very specific amino acids found in meat, what possible reason would people with a 'normal' weight have to eat meat? or least in the quantities and frequency we're used to in Western countries?
The issue is that fat can be gained from cheese as well (a common dish component outside of the West), and protein could just as easily be gained from beans, tofu and other agricultural vegetables we've created over time.

Is there a non-moral, non-normative reason (like say, statistical instead) to give for why we should consume meat, given that we don't lose access to eggs, diary, and other possible animal products?

This is not a pro-vegan thread or whatever, just to clarify. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

Yes there is plenty of evidence and basic logic that were built to eat meat, but were fortunate in that fact that, that's not the only thing were built to eat, unlike say cats which can eat vegetables and live off them, for a short time, they have to eat meat eventually or they will die.
Honestly I'm fucking sick to fucking death of people questioning if were suppose to eat meat or if meat is healthy, we wouldn't be where we are right now without meat, the discovery of fire and learning to cook meat is what allowed our brains to grow bigger leading us out of being hunter gatherers and into being farmers.
That being said eating an entire plate of meat balls or a ribeye steak everyday is certainly not good for you, everything in moderation, even moderation.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
What does "meant to eat" even mean? Sounds like some intelligent design stuff... The fact of the matter is that humans are very, very good at eating cooked meat in particular and can thrive off of it.

We're also very, very good at adapting to a wide range of diets and have countless compensatory mechanisms that let us survive for quite a while even if we don't get certain nutrients are body wants.

Yes there is plenty of evidence and basic logic that were built to eat meat, but were fortunate in that fact that, that's not the only thing were built to eat, unlike say cats which can eat vegetables and live off them, for a short time, they have to eat meat eventually or they will die.
Honestly I'm fucking sick to fucking death of people questioning if were suppose to eat meat or if meat is healthy, we wouldn't be where we are right now without meat, the discovery of fire and learning to cook meat is what allowed our brains to grow bigger leading us out of being hunter gatherers and into being farmers.
That being said eating an entire plate of meat balls or a ribeye steak everyday is certainly not good for you, everything in moderation, even moderation.

Why would eating it every day not be good? If it's good, it's good.
 

iamblades

Member
We all know the various miracle diets: paleo, keto, sugarless, vegan, pigeon, sugar only... or something.

All of them are high-profile diets (or fads) and can be summarized as three ideas of what humans are supposed to eat and what humans are. First off, we have the idea of humans as natural apex predator carnivores. Second, we have the idea of humans as banana, berry, and high fat avocado eater. And third is give or take the modern 'dunno, donna care' diet (the sugary one).

Except when someone bothers to actually ask "what do humans eat", there's no case for any of them: Debunking The Paleo Diet

Now don't me wrong, the 'sugar overdose' diet is definitely not looking good (and I would not recommend it if you want to live long). However, we can ask whether it matters if your goal is weight loss and you're using a calorie deficit.
It's a lot easier to reach that goal on a high-fat and / or high-protein diet, but that's another matter.


But here's the thing, and I'm asking because it's been bothering me in the context of fitness and weight / fat loss: there is no compelling evidence that humans are made or even meant to eat meat other than the occasional special event of some kind, yet we maintain this idea that we are apex predator carnivores and we've even tied the idea of eating meat to masculinity. As if you couldn't be a man if you just ate eggs instead of meat? Or fucking broccoli for that matter?

So aside from the very specific purpose of using a high-protein, high-fat diet to lose weight, and the very specific amino acids found in meat, what possible reason would people with a 'normal' weight have to eat meat? or least in the quantities and frequency we're used to in Western countries?
The issue is that fat can be gained from cheese as well (a common dish component outside of the West), and protein could just as easily be gained from beans, tofu and other agricultural vegetables we've created over time.

Is there a non-moral, non-normative reason (like say, statistical instead) to give for why we should consume meat, given that we don't lose access to eggs, diary, and other possible animal products?

This is not a pro-vegan thread or whatever, just to clarify. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

We weren't 'made' or 'meant' to do anything. We evolved as omnivores though, we have an omnivore's teeth and GI tract, and we have evidence of our closest related species(chimpanzee) being omnivorous with a high preference for meat when it is available.

There are also places on the planet where the only way humans ever survived there was because we could eat meat, especially prior to the advent of modern agriculture.
 
For me, removing meat from my palette would pretty much eviscerate my food intake. My tastebuds are terrible, combined with a gag reflex that makes me want to throw up when I eat something I especially don't like. Various plain meats are one of the few areas I have any range, so excuse me if I like to retain at least some variety, plus the protein.
 
We all know the various miracle diets: paleo, keto, sugarless, vegan, pigeon, sugar only... or something.

All of them are high-profile diets (or fads) and can be summarized as three ideas of what humans are supposed to eat and what humans are. First off, we have the idea of humans as natural apex predator carnivores. Second, we have the idea of humans as banana, berry, and high fat avocado eater. And third is give or take the modern 'dunno, donna care' diet (the sugary one).
But we aren't predator carnivores or banana/berry eaters. By definition, we're omnivores

Where did the idea that humans are carnivores come from? That doesn't make any sense

Or that we eat meat because of some masculinity complex?

Eating food isn't doing for purely biological reasons; it's a means of enjoyment and social bonding. We like meat because it tastes and smells good and looks pleasing in a prepared meal
 
While we certainly should eat less of it, I would be against removing it entirely. The simple reason being: meat is rich in protein and we need the stuff.
There are alternative sources of protein, but out of all of them meat is the most efficient and accessible.
 
The issue is that fat can be gained from cheese as well (a common dish component outside of the West), and protein could just as easily be gained from beans, tofu and other agricultural vegetables we've created over time.

Check your privilege.

If you think developing countries can get protein from tofu as affordably as, say, aquaculture, you are sorely mistaken. Inland fish farming for the win.
 
Yes because it's tasty.

I agree!

 

Harpuia

Member
The variance in diet we can handle was probably more of a boon back when humans had to go out into the wild to find their food. Having the ability to handle digestion of different kinds of foods probably went a long way in surviving and coming out on top as we have. Also, we possess a lot of means at our disposal when it comes to actually capturing live animals (tools, language/communication).

Nowadays most people don't have to hunt for food as we did, and for some of the humans born in luckier, more well-to-do regions, they can eliminate meat completely from their diets.

Though catching a critter or beast, and eating from it is a pretty cost effective thing to do if you think about it.
 

The_Kid

Member
Eating meat isn't a moral problem for me.

It's eating meat from factories that torture animals to get the meat. It happens all over, but it's not something that is brought to light often. If we could at least not be inhumane to animals before we eat them, that would be better.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
I don't believe in intelligent design so i don't really think we're "meant" to do anything. We just do as we please.
 

Steel

Banned
Because it tastes good and it's not unhealthy? The key to any diet is to not eat too much, that's really it. Doesn't really matter what you're eating beyond that so long as it's not snacks and cake.
 
Meat has the highest protein density in the most delicious, usable, and affordable package. You can use the fats from meat to make sauces and glazes or just as a cooking agent. As far as cooking goes, meat is almost necessary. Not that Vegan dishes can't be fantastic as well, it's just that meat and fats has a rather unique effect on a dish.

And then we factor in proteins. You make a good point - humans can in fact get proteins from other sources and we should since those sources will also have different micro nutrients necessary for a healthy body. A varied, complex diet is absolutely essential to health.

Finally, on that note, this TEDx video is absolutely correct - as far as I can tell since I only had time to watch 12 or so minutes before my break ended - but it leaves out an important aspect of human evolution. At some point as the Australopithecus line begins to break down into Paranthropus and Homo lines, and we start seeing changes from the diet that consists of largely leafy greens, berries, and vegetables. Paranthropus follows the same diet, roughly, as Australopithecus; however, the Homo line at this stage begins eating meat in addition to their vegetable diet. This gave them the flexibility to survive as time passed by.

Now, with all that said, most scientists agree that as our needs have changed from the dangerous and tense lifestyle of our ancestors, we are finding that increased red meat consumption has a correlation with early death and heart problems. However, fish and poultry still remain the defacto standard for protein/calorie ratios, not to mention the benefits of Omega-3 oils within fish.

In my opinion, humans should not eat red meat. Not much. But other meats give us plenty of options for both taste and health.

I don't believe in intelligent design so i don't really think we're "meant" to do anything. We just do as we please.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Shouldn't your disbelief in intelligent design further the notion that we have evolved in a certain way to have foods that we are meant to eat over others?
 

poodpick

Member
Good source of iron. My sister had to start eating red meat because her iron got too low on a purely vegetarian diet.
 
I mean humans evolved to have an omnivorous diet. The fact that we have canine teeth indicates that our ancestors and common ancestors of apes and all that had been eating meat as well, so it is well within our evolutionary history. Humans don't have to eat meat, but we evolved with the ability to do so so that we can get the nutrients we need more efficiently and from a wider variety of foods.

in modern day society, there's not really a reason that we need to eat meat anymore, and bar environmental concerns and inhumane treatment of animals, there also isn't really a reason not to eat meat.

(not to brush those issues under the rug, they are important topics, but if we could figure out a way to keep eating meat and eliminating those factors it would be fine)

also it tastes good
 

Jedi2016

Member
Getting to the top of the food chain via artificial means does not an apex predator make. Humans have always been prey animals.

That said, physiologically, we are omnivores... we eat whatever gives us the nutrients we need, be it plant or animal. Simple as that. Like whatever nutrients I needed that were in those two cheeseburgers I just ate.
 

Hycran

Banned
The only reason neogaf exists is because our ancestors ate meat. The complex proteins and abundance of vitamins and nutrients helped to create a line of humans that would eventually give birth to Tyler Malka. Praise meat.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
I'm not sure what to make of this. Shouldn't your disbelief in intelligent design further the notion that we have evolved in a certain way to have foods that we are meant to eat over others?

No. We aren't "meant" to do anything as a species. I mean without meat in the diet we wouldn't have these big beautiful brains to outhink our former competitors with, but we were never "meant" to have them.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
We should eat bugs instead. Better for you and the environment and people won't feel bad for factory farming them because they aren't cute.
 

bwakh

Member
We all know the various miracle diets: paleo, keto, sugarless, vegan, pigeon, sugar only... or something.

All of them are high-profile diets (or fads) and can be summarized as three ideas of what humans are supposed to eat and what humans are. First off, we have the idea of humans as natural apex predator carnivores. Second, we have the idea of humans as banana, berry, and high fat avocado eater. And third is give or take the modern 'dunno, donna care' diet (the sugary one).

Except when someone bothers to actually ask "what do humans eat", there's no case for any of them: Debunking The Paleo Diet

Now don't me wrong, the 'sugar overdose' diet is definitely not looking good (and I would not recommend it if you want to live long). However, we can ask whether it matters if your goal is weight loss and you're using a calorie deficit.
It's a lot easier to reach that goal on a high-fat and / or high-protein diet, but that's another matter.


But here's the thing, and I'm asking because it's been bothering me in the context of fitness and weight / fat loss: there is no compelling evidence that humans are made or even meant to eat meat other than the occasional special event of some kind, yet we maintain this idea that we are apex predator carnivores and we've even tied the idea of eating meat to masculinity. As if you couldn't be a man if you just ate eggs instead of meat? Or fucking broccoli for that matter?

So aside from the very specific purpose of using a high-protein, high-fat diet to lose weight, and the very specific amino acids found in meat, what possible reason would people with a 'normal' weight have to eat meat? or least in the quantities and frequency we're used to in Western countries?
The issue is that fat can be gained from cheese as well (a common dish component outside of the West), and protein could just as easily be gained from beans, tofu and other agricultural vegetables we've created over time.

Is there a non-moral, non-normative reason (like say, statistical instead) to give for why we should consume meat, given that we don't lose access to eggs, diary, and other possible animal products?

This is not a pro-vegan thread or whatever, just to clarify. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

Humans have canine teeth. I think we were meant to eat meat.
 

Fluvian

Banned
What does "meant to eat" even mean? Sounds like some intelligent design stuff... The fact of the matter is that humans are very, very good at eating cooked meat in particular and can thrive off of it.

We're also very, very good at adapting to a wide range of diets and have countless compensatory mechanisms that let us survive for quite a while even if we don't get certain nutrients are body wants.



Why would eating it every day not be good? If it's good, it's good.

A PLATE OF MEAT BALLS (Meaning between 10-20) AND A RIBEYE STEAK. Those are not healthy meats.
 

olympia

Member
Yes there is plenty of evidence and basic logic that were built to eat meat, but were fortunate in that fact that, that's not the only thing were built to eat, unlike say cats which can eat vegetables and live off them, for a short time, they have to eat meat eventually or they will die.
Honestly I'm fucking sick to fucking death of people questioning if were suppose to eat meat or if meat is healthy, we wouldn't be where we are right now without meat, the discovery of fire and learning to cook meat is what allowed our brains to grow bigger leading us out of being hunter gatherers and into being farmers.
That being said eating an entire plate of meat balls or a ribeye steak everyday is certainly not good for you, everything in moderation, even moderation.

 

dlauv

Member
Yes there is plenty of evidence and basic logic that were built to eat meat, but were fortunate in that fact that, that's not the only thing were built to eat, unlike say cats which can eat vegetables and live off them, for a short time, they have to eat meat eventually or they will die.
Honestly I'm fucking sick to fucking death of people questioning if were suppose to eat meat or if meat is healthy, we wouldn't be where we are right now without meat, the discovery of fire and learning to cook meat is what allowed our brains to grow bigger leading us out of being hunter gatherers and into being farmers.
That being said eating an entire plate of meat balls or a ribeye steak everyday is certainly not good for you, everything in moderation, even moderation.



Edit: Damn it.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
If we weren't meant to eat meat, how else would we make gains and get swole? As well all know, the rule of nature is survival of the swolest. If your ancestors didn't eat meat, you wouldn't be here giving me lectures about the benefits of a vegetarian lifestyle.

Sure you could spend your days grazing on greens, or you could eat some damn meat and get on with your day.
 
I propose moral meatatarianism. I posit that it is dishonorable, nay immoral, to eat that which cannot defend itself or attempt to subvert its hunter. Plants are defenseless creatures forced to sit and wait for their inevitable trampling at the hands of far more complex organisms. Cows can at least stampede and a chicken will mess you the fuck up if it gets near your face, but that innocent broccoli stalk is doomed to whatever whims pass the mobile and able-bodied. End the oppression of plants now, eat more meat.

Vitamin B12

Also this
 
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