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[SOR5]

In that sense, we'll most likely never get a new generation from MS.

You aren't, you're getting bigger and better XB1's that are marketed differently and cater to different technological milestones

A wacky example:
The XB1 is just an XB1
Scorpio is an XB1 thats more powerful and can do 4K and VR
Scorpio II is a more powerful Scorpio that can output holograms and smells and 3D printing
Scorpio III is a more powerful Scorpio II that can read your mind and input buttons depending on what youre thinking

 

[nelsonroyale]

You can say it as many times as you like. The generation definition doesn't apply anymore to Xbox.

Maybe, maybe not. But it is a new gen console. Just with backwards compatibility. If it is was modular and upgradeable that would be a true no gen model. I don't buy the rhetoric that generations are over. There are just smaller cycles and more co-existence.

 

[matrix-cat]

This means Sony consoles will have BC forever from now on?

I don't believe there's anything to suggest that. It would be nice, of course, but all they're saying here is that the Neo isn't going to change the PS4's lifespan, i.e. in 2019ish they're going to launch the PS5. Maybe it'll be backwards compatible, maybe not. I would think it's safer to assume not than go dropping $400 or more on a Neo you only hope will be supported for more than three years or so.

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

In that sense, we'll most likely never get a new generation from MS.

Exactly.

Scorpio shares almost nothing architecturally with the original Xbox One.

What? It's the same architecture, it's just got beefed up CPU/GPU, bandwidth, memory and so on. It' nothing like the architecture change from PS3 to PS4, or 360 to One.

And yeah, even upgrading/changing everly single part in your PC, it doesn't make it "next gen".

You aren't, you're getting bigger and better XB1's that are marketed differently and cater to different technological milestones

A wacky example:
The XB1 is just an XB1
Scorpio is an XB1 thats more powerful and can do 4K and VR
Scorpio II is a more powerful Scorpio that can output holograms and smells and 3D printing
Scorpio III is a more powerful Scorpio II that can read your mind and input buttons depending on what youre thinking

This. And obviously there will be moments in time when older models will be phased out, but it will all be a smooth and organic process, nothing like generation jumps.

 

[Nestunt]

I wonder what the wisdom of Sony sticking to similar parts for Neo was. Could Sony purposefully have done this to indirectly insure optimizations of both PS4 and Neo exist in a similar environment?

That's what you do when you are on the lead. You play it safe

 

[SOR5]

This means Sony consoles will have BC forever from now on?

As long as its x86 architecture yes

 

[LukasTaves]

Like ''policies'' really mean anything in this industry, Microsoft changed theirs 2 times in this gen alone, Sony changed theirs with PS3 even before mid gen

Scorpio is new hardware, new gen wether people like it or not. The 4 year cycle worked for them with OG Xbox - Xbox 360, not shocking they are doing it again.



It wont, Andy House said that on the interview he mentioned NEO before E3

Stop spreading misinformation. They have been abundantly clear that Scorpio won't kill the current Xbox in any way, shape or form. They want a platform that supports the same games running on devices even less capable than Xbox one and it will be years from now until support it is no longer required.

 

[Dennis]

Shuhei Yoshida is wrong.

And so is Microsoft.

I, Dennis, say that they will learn that gamers can't accept their vision and will instead migrate wholesale to the new models which in essence will be the next generation.

 

[Keihart]

The horror! prepare for another 9 year cycle !

 

[leeh]

You aren't, you're getting bigger and better XB1's that are marketed differently and cater to different technological milestones

A wacky example:
The XB1 is just an XB1
Scorpio is an XB1 thats more powerful and can do 4K and VR
Scorpio II is a more powerful Scorpio that can output holograms and smells and 3D printing
Scorpio III is a more powerful Scorpio II that can read your mind and input buttons depending on what youre thinking

Yeah, I'm in agreement, that's what I'm saying. I wonder how they manage the support for previous devices, for example the XB1 when the Scorpio II is released.

PS: Your vision for the future is scary.

 

[Leyasu]

4X leap is half of what tradition cycle leap, it'll be super disappointing if Scorpio is that leap.

It's a bit over 4x, nothing major though.. But much better than the neo leap.

I wonder what the wisdom of Sony sticking to similar parts for Neo was. Could Sony purposefully have done this to indirectly insure optimizations of both PS4 and Neo exist in a similar environment?

Probably the cost was the biggest factor.

 

[@Wreck]

It's a bigger leap than 360 was to Xbox One. 0.35TF to 1.4TF. Scorpio is 6.6TF.

I get that,

okay its a next gen hardware but still running old software?

numbers aside will it have next gen software? =)

when it does it will be next gen.

we can't know we can only assume.

 

[Nestunt]

I don't believe there's anything to suggest that. It would be nice, of course, but all they're saying here is that the Neo isn't going to change the PS4's lifespan, i.e. in 2019ish they're going to launch the PS5. Maybe it'll be backwards compatible, maybe not. I would think it's safer to assume not than go dropping $400 or more on a Neo you only hope will be supported for more than three years or so.

If this works as they intend, why buy a PS5 for 400 when 3 years later there will be a PS5.5 for the same price?

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Yeah, I'm in agreement, that's what I'm saying. I wonder how they manage the support for previous devices, for example the XB1 when the Scorpio II is released.

They'll probably stop production and firmware upgrades, loosening the back/forward compatibility requirement to a couple of hardware iterations.This way they'll slowly phase out older models while new ones come out.

 

[pastrami]

Stop spreading misinformation. They have been abundantly clear that Scorpio won't kill the current Xbox in any way, shape or form. They want a platform that supports the same games running on devices even less capable than Xbox one and it will be years from now until support it is no longer required.

So will Microsoft be rejecting VR games that don't run on Xbox One? If something like The Brookhaven Experiment or Job Simulator wants to be on Scorpio, Microsoft is going to say no, unless you get it running on Xbox One too?

 

[Zedox]

I think because of the timing in which these consoles came out, people are getting confused as to the "next-gen" of these systems. The platform holders could have done this at the beginning of this generation but it would have cost a lot to make the enhanced versions. PS4 and PS4K could have came out in 2013 but that PS4K version would have been hella expensive. They would still be playing the same games with the same developer tools but just more power. That's exactly what's happening here, but instead of releasing the enhanced version at the beginning of the generation, they waited (both Sony and Microsoft) so that the prices could go down. They are just enhanced versions, more power, but still the same thing.

Now will the "true next-gen" system come out and support only these enhanced versions as the baseline? Possibly, we don't know. It all depends on the technology that is out at the time and how much of an upgrade in computing power it is. So you can't say definitively if that is the case or not.

 

[wapplew]

If this works as they intend, why buy a PS5 for 400 when 3 years later there will be a PS5.5 for the same price?

People who don't want to wait 3 years for first party exclusive.

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

So will Microsoft be rejecting VR games that don't run on Xbox One? If something like The Brookhaven Experiment wants to be on Scorpio, Microsoft is going to say no, unless you get it running on Xbox One too?

That's the exception. Scorprio will support VR while One won't, so obviously VR games will be exclusive to Scorpio and subsequent iterations.

 

[G-Bus]

After playing uncharted 4 and seeing what's coming up from e3. I don't see why I need to upgrade my ps4. Everthing looks great to me.

Be interesting to see exactly how they market this thing to consumers. Simply saying it's more powerful won't be enough for the masses imo.

Do people care about 4k gaming yet? I doubt most of my friends are really all that aware about it other than seeing those rediculously expensive tvs in electronics stores.

If this works as they intend, why buy a PS5 for 400 when 3 years later there will be a PS5.5 for the same price?

If neo is considered a success I bet we'll see a ps5.5 out the gate along with its little brother so to speak. Why not have 2 units with one being slightly better. See a lot of that now in the phone market.

 

[pastrami]

That's the exception. Scorprio will support VR while One won't, so obviously VR games will be exclusive to Scorpio and subsequent iterations.

So all games will be Xbox One compatible...except the exceptions. Ok.

 

[diamount]

But you do want everyone to upgrade to the Neo.

 

[darkwing]

Yep, still a fucking stupid idea. It's still splitting the userbase.

how? it's still a PS4, there is no Neo only game

 

[tomato shrub]

The early leaks really screwed them over.

 

[kurahador]

I wonder if we'll see Neo model replacing standard PS4 by the time they announce Neo 3.

 

[Obscuritas]

But you do want everyone to upgrade to the Neo.

No? OG PS4 will still be on the store shelves, with a cheaper price.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

It is going to feel like cross-gen though, on both Scorpio and Neo at some point.

In terms of how the games perform and look. It's still better than cross-gen because you're playing with OG owners.

 

[thuway]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

 

[leeh]

They'll probably stop production and firmware upgrades, loosening the back/forward compatibility requirement to a couple of hardware iterations.This way they'll slowly phase out older models while new ones come out.

Production I get, but your still going to have a subset of users on the older model. If by firmware upgrades, you mean the OS, then the XB1 is already unified with the PC builds, they're the same builds as of the latest preview update which means all future Xbox's will also be the same.

 

[geordiemp]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

Sony need to show me how high end it is, put tough to run games on and show them running flawlessly at 1080p60 and I will believe.

Bloodborne, show that running on Neo and we will all believe, or not. Its in Sonys court. If Neo struggles to run Bloodborne how we would expect its pointless.

If I have to put on my reading glasses and put my nose next to the TV to see some shadow detail and AF then its not so interesting, and not so premium.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

I guess part of me is worried why would I buy into a PS4 Neo this fall when I'd need to buy into a PS5 three years from now to play the next generation of games. It just seems bizarre to release a console that, out of the gate, only has a 3-4 year lifespan and whose main selling point is 'can run PS4 games marginally prettier/smoother'.

I mean obviously there's 4k media considerations too, so in some respects Sony is smarter for taking a middle road between the X1 S and Scorpio (I think Spencers implication that MS will support three SKUs going forward is kind of insane, but whatever). I think though both the OG PS4 and Neo need to be _really_ competitively priced; the former to expand the ecosystem and the latter to entice upgrades. I just... I dunno, this seems like the makings of another New 3DS debacle to me. It's a shame because I thought this was a chance to break out of the fixed 6-7 year console cycle, but both Sony and MS have been actively countering that implication.

...if I'm still working this fall I'll probably get a NEO anyways though D:

 

[wapplew]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

I doubt most people want best box, most people want cheap box and PS4 still the more powerful cheap box.

 

[Nestunt]

People who don't want to wait 3 years for first party exclusive.

My question was rhetorical. A lot of people will buy the Neo because that's the new thing. Look at the Elite in comparison to the original 360 (without HDD). And in that case was not more powerful

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

So all games will be Xbox One compatible...except VR ones. Ok.

Fixed.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care.

Especially because Scorpio will be marketed the same way: a high end Xbox One.

If by firmware upgrades, you mean the OS, then the XB1 is already unified with the PC builds, they're the same builds as of the latest preview update which means all future Xbox's will also be the same.

Yep but I'm looking at the Apple model here: all iPads/iPhones have the same OS, but the older ones stop getting newer versions just because they couldn't run them or for marketing purposes. I thing at some point in time MS will start doing the same. If they want to innovate the OS, they can't keep on making it run on a 10 or 15 years old hardware.

 

[thuway]

Sony need to show me how high end it is, put tough to run games on and show them running flawlessly at 1080p60 and I will believe.

If I have to put on my reading glasses and put my nose next to the TV to see some shadow detail and AF then its not so interesting, and not so premium.

What are you talking about? Scorpio is more powerful than Neo, but don't make the mistake of thinking the difference will somehow nullify the Neo ports into obsolescence.

Scorpio will be around 40 to 50 percent more powerful than Neo (around the same difference between PS4 and Xbox One), but to be quite honest, it's also going to be hamstrung by development priorities and targets held back by Xbox One and PS4. Temper your expectations because by the time you see any software truly take advantage of Scorpio you'll be on the doorstep of PS5.

I still think Sony would be wise to mess around with clocks and try to get Neo into the 5+ TF territory but even at 4.2 TF you are really pulling hairs with the difference you are expecting on screen.

 

[mrklaw]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

most people will want the best box that plays the games they want to play. Playstation has the brand value outside of US/UK where they're pretty even with Xbox, and more importantly Playstation has 40m consoles (more than 40m people playing) with growing digital libraries and friends lists that will most likely stay within the playstation ecosystem. They'll either buy a neo or just skip it and wait for PS5.


Also, 'beyond generations' from MS sounds very much like they're moving to an iterative model, and moving away from the big bang generational model. Anything Phil Spencer says about 'inflection points' etc and not doing this too often just sounds like marketing speak to avoid devaluing Xbox one S and Scorpio prematurely.

 

[Obscuritas]

I doubt most people want best box, most people want cheap box and PS4 still the more powerful the cheap box.

Yep. It's all about quality/price ratio perceived by the customer. PS4 nailed that and would probably still nail it in the future.

 

[pastrami]

Fixed.


Especially because Scorpio will be marketed the same way: a high end Xbox One.

I'm not sure why you are trying your damnedest to make the exception not seem like an exception. All Scorpio games will be Xbox One compatible is a false statement. Period.

 

[Inuteu]

actually, it can make the life cycle longer

 

[Nestunt]

Fixed.


Especially because Scorpio will be marketed the same way: a high end Xbox One.

What makes you think that? When talking about Scorpio, I bet, they will focus much more on the W10 brand than the XB1 brand. That's why they released the Xbox One S. That's their "high end" Xbox One. Scorpio will be marketed as a shift (that has backwards compatibility)

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

I'm not sure why you are trying your damnedest to make the exception not seem like an exception. All Scorpio games will be Xbox One compatible is a false statement. Period.

I agree. Only the non-VR Scorpio games will be Xbox One compatilbe. Not all games, just the ones not built for VR.

That's why they released the Xbox One S. That's their "high end" Xbox One. Scorpio will be marketed as a shift (that has backwards compatibility)

Absolutely not. Xbox One S *is* Xbox One. It's not the high end model, the same way Xbox 360 S wasn't an high end Xbox 360 and all the PS3 hardware iterations weren't high end PS3s. Scorpio will be the high end Xbox One.

 

[Glorified G]

I'm not sure why you are trying your damnedest to make the exception not seem like an exception. All Scorpio games will be Xbox One compatible is a false statement. Period.

He;s actually using Spencer's own words:

We don’t want to force VR into a middle ground between the scale that we see in mobile, and what our customers [expect].” So even though future Xbox games will be compatible with all the Xbox One systems, the VR games will likely be Scorpio-exclusive.

For people being intentionally obtuse then yeah, this is pretty difficult concept. For everyone else, it is pretty simple. All Scorpio games will be Xbox One compatible except for VR software.

 

[danm999]

most people will want the best box that plays the games they want to play. Playstation has the brand value outside of US/UK where they're pretty even with Xbox, and more importantly Playstation has 40m consoles (more than 40m people playing) with growing digital libraries and friends lists that will most likely stay within the playstation ecosystem. They'll either buy a neo or just skip it and wait for PS5.

Spot on. A lot of people will be hesitant to switch out of the ecosystem for incremental jumps in power, especially if there's a belief another leap in power in their current ecosystem is coming down the line.

 

[reKon]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

That's when Sony must delivery on their console exclusives.

I'm sure Neo will launch at $400 this year. By the time Scropio launches Sony would probably bring it down to $350 at least, leaving room for a $250 PS4. Microsoft needs to be careful with Scorpio pricing so it's going to be interesting what they go with. If they start at $500, good fucking luck there, lol.

 

[SOR5]

Yeah, I'm in agreement, that's what I'm saying. I wonder how they manage the support for previous devices, for example the XB1 when the Scorpio II is released.

PS: Your vision for the future is scary.

Hahaha its not even my idea, theyve stated theyre already looking at cognitive input and 3D printing even though its way off

 

[FunkyDealer]

I wonder what'll happen when PS5/Xbox Two releases. Will they be fased out with the current models, or live on longer?

 

[Shtof]

If I was him, I would say the same. Even if I knew it was technically a lie. What about the rumor that manufacturing the old PS4 would eventually become more expensive due to the old hardware in it?

I think with the current development in the console market and Andrew House's admiration for Apple's release cycles the Neo will release soon after Gamescom or TGS. Announced and released the same week, I reckon. Sony will just call it the 'New PS4' . After all, the codename is Neo. The price will be $399, and old PS4 production will cease as soon as it is economically viable. After all, when Neo is out, new buyers will not have much incentive to buy the old PS4 as the price difference probably won't be much more $50-100.

 

[AgentChris]

The one thing that will hurt Neo the most is the inevitable technical comparison to Scorpio. There's no way around it, Neo will need to be priced significantly lower to justify it's performance deficit.

No matter how many times PR keep insisting Neo is a high end PS4- gamers won't care. Most people just want the best box for their needs.

Not if it comes this year.

 

[matrix-cat]

If this works as they intend, why buy a PS5 for 400 when 3 years later there will be a PS5.5 for the same price?

Well if they're continuing the cycle of six year generations and no backwards compatibility, a PS5 would get you six or so years of games, while a PS5.5 would get you three.

 

[Crayon]

Sony speaking for microsoft now. Uh huh.

 

[amdb00mer]

Ps4 neo is ps4.
Xbox Scorpio is Xbox One.

Neither company is ending a life cycle. They're only enriching it.

Wish more people understood this. Both companies let developers know well in advance so they can plan how to make titles work on both. So when on NEO/Scorpio gamers get extra detail/performance, but the same titles work with less detail/performance on the regular PS4/X1. Just like a PC can play new games on old hardware with lower settings. I expect a few PS4 and X1 games to actually run better without the need for patches. Phil Spencer said as much in his Giantbomb interview. He gave Halo 5 as an example. It currently uses dynamic resolutions to adjust for performance to prevent dips in fps. With the extra power it would not need to change the resolutions as much or if at all. It would stay at a constant 60fps and 1080p most of the time. Of course not all games will do this. If developers choose to take advantage for older games, most will require a patch. I can see Sony and MS doing this for some of their 1st party games.