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Skyrim: Yes, Those devs are lazy!

DustQueen

Member
Oct 7, 2020
377
558
325
I am not revealing any new truth here, but my buthurt is so strong, I had to share all of it's glory.

Also worth noting is that I do not believe that developers are ever lazy... Usually there are some other reasonable explanation of why something is not as good as it could/should be. Like I get why Cyberpunk mess is not a result of lazyness...but CPRD just having no experience in functioning as a giant corporation n going mad scientist level of ambition. .But this...


I tried to get into Skyrim many times..
First on 360, then on on PS4, Later on Switch.
And always was turned off buy how mediocre everything was.
Zero reactivity, barebones systems thrown together with zero fleshing out, just balanced against each other on a very surface level for it to sorta work.
Copepast buildings with no real thought or diversity n architecture to in. No real details to represent it's story or world building visually... I just did not get the praise.
Horrible "Special Edition" where they just added couple of bushes on top of old assets with faaaaat layer of volumetric cheese, while barely touching DLC areas at all.
Recently it was released on GamePass and I remembered that Xbox actually alow you to install modes unlike PS4 where Sony was treating mode support like a joke on it's audience and I tried to mode it there(on PS4) but always ended up breaking things, improving some of it but it is still always resulted in a "game with installed modes" amature feel to it.
This time I decided to put an effort and see if anything could really be done.
With some resemblance of full modding potential Xbox allows...maybe I could actually tweak things to make something decent.
My goal was never to change the original vision...not to turn it into something it is not, transform it into fantasy porn parody with porn star NPC models or a survival Dark Souls like monstrosity that so many people do transform this game into with modes.
So I was limiting my self into adding only the most logical things that are well withing the reason of what this game is going for with careful tweaks to already existing systems while pushing GFX to pursue "Special Edition like if they actually cared" look, rather then anything radical in it's changes.
So I was not indulging my self into installing many giant overhauls but was seeking tweaks, updates, changes of individual elements to update it piece by piece without actually compromising any part of it's streamlined action/RPG laid back nature.
Improve, deepen and add to what it is, rather then reinvent. Often taking just small elements of giant modes and gluing it together while fine tuning the combat with the least invasive, but the most logical tweaks while always testing the changes.
Make character 25% slower but making animals 50% faster, increasing damage player and nps dealt by 200%, replacing this fire effect with the one that looks like the person creating it actually cared, add some patrols of diferent factions to the world that supposed to be in a middle of civil war... oh look, that fog effect on top of the mountains from this mode seem to enhance original vision...hey..this seems lore friendly...oh..well those textures make this building look like if was actually build by humans outa actual bricks, hey maybe I can turn this volumetric vomit into volumetric lighting system...hey...what if ugly indoor lighting that does not make any fucking sense is not making any fucking sense... That sorta thing.
After 5 days I individually tweaked and balanced out every fucking aspect of this game. And the more I did this, the more I was shocked by the lack of many, MANY, VERY VERY obvious, easy to implement tweaks that are crearly improving the game.
Reality revealed it self to me... it is not that Skyrim is bad...it is just that every molecule of it is robed of that one small step of fine tuning or care.
And this cannot be explained away by anything rather then Bathesda DEVS NOT GIVING A FLYING FUCK.
It is one thing for example to not have combat that is not this junky retard mess...but it is actually not a good point to criticize the game for what is not there...but not tweaking your own junky retard mess with obvious improvements is...like...why????!!!

So after 60 installed enchantments marrying it's story to the world, fixing inexcusable lore mistakes, making it play like the game Bathesda was developing rather then what they decided to release, actually pushing GFX to what it is going for, making it sound good, making it's system fully functional...basically pushishing your game Todd towards release state...yes...it is pretty damn good. I like Skyrim now.

WHAT THE FUCK?

How did we exepted this in 2011?
Why did we praised it when it took such a monumental efford of modding community to finish developing cycle for this game.
Did we really needes the homeless heroin junky lever of giving a shit of Fallout 76 to actually get mad?


And please tell me people that are so in love with this parody of the game vanilla Skyrim is... How did you actually enjoyed this in that state?
 

ComputerBlue

Member
Dec 6, 2013
8,335
814
790
I love it, what can I say. Not going to convince you otherwise because it seems like it ain't for you, but out of curiosity, what made you try the game out so many times? And did you actually waste money two more times on PS4 and Switch after you weren't feeling it on 360? Because if so...
 

Ryzaki009

Member
Jul 5, 2016
1,229
74
490
Eh it's one of my favorite games personally. Even vanilla (the only thing I absolutely *had* to fix was the godawful character faces/textures my first playthrough).

But if it's not for you it's not for you.
 

Yoboman

Member
Sep 17, 2005
20,213
16,858
1,890
I think people generally excused the likes of Skytim because it was so big and dynamic especially for when it came out

As far as I see Cyberpunk isn't anywhere near the level of sandbox that an Elders Scrolls game is
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,165
15,797
915
I'm not a big ES guy but it's appeal is it's ability to pick up and play. It's one of the easiest rpgs to get into. It never clicked with me in a deep way due to how janky it is.
 

Bkdk

Member
Dec 20, 2018
967
625
340
I did enjoy the open world very much though, the open world certainly works a lot better than cyberpunk, at least the dragon fight can happen in the open world, exploration is also really fun. Plus I love modding so I primarily play on PC. Even games with no modding capabilities I would download trainer just to enhance the experience a bit like removing the weight capacity, or slightly faster speed etc. I guess I am the oppossite to OP as I love fallout 4 for being probably the only AAA game that has such robust modding capabilities and it's certainly my most played game this gen. I do love my chars look like hot porn superstar,
 
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Nhranaghacon

Banned
Sep 15, 2020
626
727
485
When Skyrim released, graphically it was Untouchable.


Untouchable.

You had to wait a year and a half (BF3) before anything came near Skyrim graphically.

Secondly, it was an uncompromising first person fantasy game that delivered what fan's had been wanting/craving since Morrowind.

Where Oblivion failed to deliver immersive engrossing environment's, enemies and varied non generic dungeons - Skyrim delivered in spaids.

Skyrim's AI was far and away superior than Morrowind's and far more refined than Oblivions.

Where Morrowind failed to deliver a completely infinite open world, marred by low draw distance, invisible walls and inaccessible areas - Skyrim was the exact opposite.

Skyrim was the first game Fantasy based Swords and Sorcery RPG's fan of all demographics - craving an immersive, engrossing Open World Fantasy RPG could truly relate to.

And Skyrim to this day retains that mantle.

And the fact that it does - make's it all the more obvious just how BAD Sword and Sorcery Fantasy based RPG's have been up to this point.

And just how much room is left for improvement - and that fact still
does not detract from the game that is Skyrim.

With that said, Dragon Age PC edition is an incredible Sword and Sorcery Fantasy RPG, that still manages to fumble as it is plagued with invisible walls and non interactive environment's while also limiting the player experience in that world. The narrative of truly Open World Sword and Sorcery Fantasy RPGS are marred by a common trait - all of which are present in Dragon Age - none of which are present in Skyrim.
 
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Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
1,962
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Bethesda games are beloved despite the issues because they are fun, the characters are memorable at the worlds are amazingly detailed and interesting to explore.

You can scream "but the devs are lazy!" all you want but you cannot deny the cultural impact that literally every game since Morrowind has had.
 

Rillania

Gold Member
Dec 8, 2020
87
257
415
I played vanilla Skyrim on the 360 on and off for years and I loved the game, jank and glitches /bugs and all.

Skyrim was my first ES game, as I never had an Xbox and had only watched friends play Oblivion. I vividly remember being completely awestruck by the intro scene in Helgen with Alduin, and I fell in love with the game as soon as I was thrust into this huge, vast world where I could go anywhere and do just about anything I wanted. While it wasn't my first open-world game, something just really clicked with me when it came to Skyrim and the sheer size of it. I had a blast every time I loaded up the game, from exploring off the beaten path, delving into dungeons, battling dragons, and doing questlines.

I don't think I could ever go back to vanilla now that I've been spoiled by PC modded Skyrim (I've sunk weeks into tweaking mod builds for the perfect setup several times), but that fact doesn't negate how much I absolutely adored it back in the day.
 

mansoor1980

Member
Oct 12, 2020
2,434
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it was great for 2011 and was hyped to the nines
 

Poké Maniac

Banned
Dec 4, 2020
72
171
265
I tried Skyrim on the PS3 back in the day and dropped it after the first few hours. Nothing about it was appealing to me, not the gameplay, characters, story, or enviornments. I had a similar experience with Dragon Age, Witcher, and Mass Effect. I don't know if the sequels improved in any of these areas, but I pretty much lost any interest in WRPGs after playing these four games.

P.S. Don't hit Enter after every sentence.
 

CartoonsNCereal

You're wayyyycist!!!!
Nov 26, 2020
536
458
360
When Skyrim released, graphically it was Untouchable.


Untouchable.

You had to wait a year and a half (BF3) before anything came near Skyrim graphically.

Secondly, it was an uncompromising first person fantasy game that delivered what fan's had been wanting/craving since Morrowind.

Where Oblivion failed to deliver immersive engrossing environment's, enemies and varied non generic dungeons - Skyrim delivered in spaids.

Skyrim's AI was far and away superior than Morrowind's and far more refined than Oblivions.

Where Morrowind failed to deliver a completely infinite open world, marred by low draw distance, invisible walls and inaccessible areas - Skyrim was the exact opposite.

Skyrim was the first game Fantasy based Swords and Sorcery RPG's fan of all demographics - craving an immersive, engrossing Open World Fantasy RPG could truly relate to.

And Skyrim to this day retains that mantle.

And the fact that it does - make's it all the more obvious just how BAD Sword and Sorcery Fantasy based RPG's have been up to this point.

And just how much room is left for improvement - and that fact still
does not detract from the game that is Skyrim.

With that said, Dragon Age PC edition is an incredible Sword and Sorcery Fantasy RPG, that still manages to fumble as it is plagued with invisible walls and non interactive environment's while also limiting the player experience in that world. The narrative of truly Open World Sword and Sorcery Fantasy RPGS are marred by a common trait - all of which are present in Dragon Age - none of which are present in Skyrim.


except skyrim had worst quests than oblivion, and was MUCH weaker in it's rpg elements. so...what are you talking about? oblivion was abetter game and RPG than skyrim....and had more heart and each quest was hand written. oblivion was closer to morrowind than skyrim was....
 
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The Dead Flag Blues

Neo Member
Sep 11, 2019
46
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It's almost as if the devs had a deadline. You have to be pretty dense if you can't understand that they have to pick and choose stuff to add and prioritize some things over others. There are way more modders than devs and they have had almost ten years now to create stuff. Bethesda can't just keep working on the game forever and never release it, that's not how it works. Anyways, a lot of what you mention is just preference or untrue. I'm very grateful for the unofficial patches, but apart from those, Skyrim is imo still best played vanilla.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
6,622
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610
I started it again the other day on One X to try the 60fps mod and the FOV mod and see how the game play like that on Console nowadays

I immediately was shocked at how bad the attack animations are.
WHAT INCOMPETENT IDIOT WORKED ON THOSE? whoever did has no idea how to animate that's for sure.
I never animated anything and even I know the most basic rules on how to make an attack look and feel good... it's not fucking hard!


also how did this game never get an official patch to unlock the framerate and to change FOV.
something modders had to put into the game VIA BASIC .INI FILE EDITING!

Bethesda is a terrible development studio full of incompetent idiots.

there is a reason the only decent modern Fallout game was the one they didn't make!

so i somewhat disagree with OP, they aren't lazy they suck at what they're doing.
having decent attack animations instead of the dogshit ones that are in the game is tied to the talent of the animators not the time they out in.
 
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Edgelord79

Member
Sep 24, 2020
995
1,320
420
The game was made by a 100 person dev team. Perspective is required here.
Utilizing the creation engine no less. Based on the consistent limitations and issues stemming from the use of this engine and its adaptations to suit more modern titles (in Fallout 76), I think its fair to say that history could have remembered Skyrim in a much worse light. than how its celebrated now.
 
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CartoonsNCereal

You're wayyyycist!!!!
Nov 26, 2020
536
458
360
In what way? Cyberpunk has really watered down RPG elements and a dead open world similar to recent Ubisoft games.


ubisoft games don't have the side content or creativity in quests that cyberpunk does at all

in my last playthrough I talked a guy out of suicide, rescued a chick that locked herself into a braindance to avoid getting killed by the gang that was after her, and found this sentient gun



ubisoft aint doing that shit.

and if I have to explain what it does betetr than skyrim, then you have alot to learn about games my guy, bc i can objectively make this argument.


quests? who you gonna give it to? cyberpunk hands fucking down. has far more creative quests than Skyrim's procedurally generated quests.

rpg elements. not only does skyrim scale with you leveling wise, they don't even have the expanse of weapons and armory that cyberpunk does, once you get the daedric and ebony class weapons, it's pretty much a wrap for finding new shit. especially since they got rid of alot of the enchanted variations and destructibility that was in oblivion.

but in cyberpunk you have weapons with various stats, and that have various different leveling and damage outputs, and have different mechanics to them, and abilities. more than enough to keep you looking. AND you can modify them

combat? fucking cyberpunk destroys skyrim and fallout in gunplay lets not even joke around. this is just facts. even the katana mechanics are better than skyrims swordplay mechanics lol

these are MAJOR forany rpg

quests, leveling, loot variation, mechanics. cyberpunk beats skyrim in all of those.
 
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Barakov

Member
Sep 30, 2006
8,574
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Played Skyrim at launch on PC. Enjoyed it despite the bugs. Playing Cyberpunk and am enjoying it despite the bugs. I think the common thread here is that people overlook technical shortcomings in a game if the content that's in the game is good enough to keep you coming back.

Do Bethesda and CD Projeckt Red deserve all the shit they get for technical issues? Definitely. Cyberpunk on consoles seem like PS3 Skyrim levels of bad from what some people have said. I think even if CD Projekt Red turns it around there's going to be jank and some elements that will just turn people off. I remember all the shit Bethesda got for saying some problems in PS3 Skyrim were unfixable. I think that was definitely case of them not wanting to do it and hence being lazy.
At least with CP2077 people were able to get their money back.
 

Torrent of Pork

Gold Member
Aug 29, 2018
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Play with the Ordinator perk overhaul, turns into a completely different game. For God's sake it makes a Speech or Lockpick build perfectly viable.

Edit: In fact, just get all the overhaul mods the author releases. He has overhauls for races, magic, enchantments, vampirism, lycanthropy, standing stones, and others. You will not recognize Skyrim (for the better) with just this guy's mods.
 
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Royal-Slime

Banned
Dec 14, 2020
188
184
185
Bethesda games are beloved despite the issues because they are fun, the characters are memorable at the worlds are amazingly detailed and interesting to explore.

You can scream "but the devs are lazy!" all you want but you cannot deny the cultural impact that literally every game since Morrowind has had.
Seriously, everyone knows about Skyrim. Even the people who don't play games have heard about it. It's the same as screaming "Mario devs are lazy, Crash Bandicoot looks better!".


Do you guys have a competition or something? Who is going to make the most ridiculous and entitled topic? Can't wait to see "video games suck" topic soon. I'm starting to see why Resetera has so much banning. Gamers forums need some serious moderation or this is what we get.
 

Hugare

Member
Sep 8, 2019
1,072
2,390
455
I bought it in 2011

To me, it always looked like shit and played like shit. Like a real Bethesda game.

The only truly enjoyable Bethesda game imo is Fallout 3. There are some really great quests in there, exploration is awesome, and with VATS, the gameplay was passable

In Skyrim, gameplay was shit. Being a mage was ok because you just spam some spells.
Stealth was shit, sword fighting was shit. Every cave you explore looks the same. Story is a big meh.

It has LOTS of content, but everything is mediocre.

Never undertood the hype
 

Ryzaki009

Member
Jul 5, 2016
1,229
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490
Play with the Ordinator perk overhaul, turns into a completely different game. For God's sake it makes a Speech or Lockpick build perfectly viable.

Edit: In fact, just get all the overhaul mods the author releases. He has overhauls for races, magic, enchantments, vampirism, lycanthropy, standing stones, and others. You will not recognize Skyrim (for the better) with just this guy's mods.

Ah Enai's mods are beautiful. He even does vanilla+ for people who don't want extra ham with it :p
 

onesvenus

Member
Aug 26, 2004
1,328
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1,625
I am not revealing any new truth here, but my buthurt is so strong, I had to share all of it's glory.

Also worth noting is that I do not believe that developers are ever lazy... Usually there are some other reasonable explanation of why something is not as good as it could/should be. Like I get why Cyberpunk mess is not a result of lazyness...but CPRD just having no experience in functioning as a giant corporation n going mad scientist level of ambition. .But this...


I tried to get into Skyrim many times..
First on 360, then on on PS4, Later on Switch.
And always was turned off buy how mediocre everything was.
Zero reactivity, barebones systems thrown together with zero fleshing out, just balanced against each other on a very surface level for it to sorta work.
Copepast buildings with no real thought or diversity n architecture to in. No real details to represent it's story or world building visually... I just did not get the praise.
Horrible "Special Edition" where they just added couple of bushes on top of old assets with faaaaat layer of volumetric cheese, while barely touching DLC areas at all.
Recently it was released on GamePass and I remembered that Xbox actually alow you to install modes unlike PS4 where Sony was treating mode support like a joke on it's audience and I tried to mode it there(on PS4) but always ended up breaking things, improving some of it but it is still always resulted in a "game with installed modes" amature feel to it.
This time I decided to put an effort and see if anything could really be done.
With some resemblance of full modding potential Xbox allows...maybe I could actually tweak things to make something decent.
My goal was never to change the original vision...not to turn it into something it is not, transform it into fantasy porn parody with porn star NPC models or a survival Dark Souls like monstrosity that so many people do transform this game into with modes.
So I was limiting my self into adding only the most logical things that are well withing the reason of what this game is going for with careful tweaks to already existing systems while pushing GFX to pursue "Special Edition like if they actually cared" look, rather then anything radical in it's changes.
So I was not indulging my self into installing many giant overhauls but was seeking tweaks, updates, changes of individual elements to update it piece by piece without actually compromising any part of it's streamlined action/RPG laid back nature.
Improve, deepen and add to what it is, rather then reinvent. Often taking just small elements of giant modes and gluing it together while fine tuning the combat with the least invasive, but the most logical tweaks while always testing the changes.
Make character 25% slower but making animals 50% faster, increasing damage player and nps dealt by 200%, replacing this fire effect with the one that looks like the person creating it actually cared, add some patrols of diferent factions to the world that supposed to be in a middle of civil war... oh look, that fog effect on top of the mountains from this mode seem to enhance original vision...hey..this seems lore friendly...oh..well those textures make this building look like if was actually build by humans outa actual bricks, hey maybe I can turn this volumetric vomit into volumetric lighting system...hey...what if ugly indoor lighting that does not make any fucking sense is not making any fucking sense... That sorta thing.
After 5 days I individually tweaked and balanced out every fucking aspect of this game. And the more I did this, the more I was shocked by the lack of many, MANY, VERY VERY obvious, easy to implement tweaks that are crearly improving the game.
Reality revealed it self to me... it is not that Skyrim is bad...it is just that every molecule of it is robed of that one small step of fine tuning or care.
And this cannot be explained away by anything rather then Bathesda DEVS NOT GIVING A FLYING FUCK.
It is one thing for example to not have combat that is not this junky retard mess...but it is actually not a good point to criticize the game for what is not there...but not tweaking your own junky retard mess with obvious improvements is...like...why????!!!

So after 60 installed enchantments marrying it's story to the world, fixing inexcusable lore mistakes, making it play like the game Bathesda was developing rather then what they decided to release, actually pushing GFX to what it is going for, making it sound good, making it's system fully functional...basically pushishing your game Todd towards release state...yes...it is pretty damn good. I like Skyrim now.

WHAT THE FUCK?

How did we exepted this in 2011?
Why did we praised it when it took such a monumental efford of modding community to finish developing cycle for this game.
Did we really needes the homeless heroin junky lever of giving a shit of Fallout 76 to actually get mad?


And please tell me people that are so in love with this parody of the game vanilla Skyrim is... How did you actually enjoyed this in that state?
Do you have a list of mods you think are worth it? I'm thinking about replaying it again
 

Bolivar687

Banned
Jun 13, 2014
7,261
7,844
800
USA
This was a 360/ps3 game. The reason they needed to copy pasta was so they could fit an entire province with hundreds of dungeons and points of interest on a 9GB DVD. Even then, all of the major cities do have their own character.

The systems didn't need to be too in depth because this was a game made for the masses to transport them to and immerse them in an alternate fantasy world. It's by far the most successful game to ever attempt that and it's not even close.

The fact that Bethesda empowers modders to do this kind of stuff is a testament to the studio.

This is like buying a Ferrari and complaining that the dashboard LED colors don't pop as well as they could. So you look up a way to make them brighter on your own and then making a thread on the Ferrari Age Forums about what lazy pieces of shit the engineers are.
 
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Ladioss

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Oct 21, 2018
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What really astonish me with TES games is how each numbered episode is weaker and poorer than the previous entry, ie Morrowind > Oblivion > Skyrim, yet the sales keep going up. Another proof that democracy is broken, and more people means less IQ.
 
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Matt_Fox

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Jul 24, 2019
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Skyrim is a prime example of both critical and commercial success (as such its always going to attract online contrarians trying to take it down a peg or two). The ambition in the game was unparalleled at the time and arguably still unsurpassed - the opposite of 'lazy'.

The amazing modding community has indeed made the game WAY BETTER than it was in 2011, but if it hadn't been a special game in the first place it never would have attracted those unpaid modders who have collectively spent literally millions of man hours improving it and honing it in ways that the original devs could never have expected.


 

Vae_Victis

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Mar 4, 2020
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When Skyrim released, graphically it was Untouchable.

Untouchable.

You had to wait a year and a half (BF3) before anything came near Skyrim graphically.
Skyrim (November 2011):






The Witcher 2 (May 2011):






Crysis 2 (March 2011):






Alan Wake (May 2010):






Skyrim had some nice wilderness vistas and a few cool effects, but overall textures, models and environment density were on the average side for the time. And let's not even touch on stuff like animations and fluidity of movements, which was barely an improvement over Oblivion (which was itself a bit on the janky side even for 2006).

PS: Battlefield 3 released in October 2011, so 1 month before Skyrim, not 1.5 years after.
 
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UnNamed

18+ Member, acts like 12 year old console warrior
Dec 21, 2006
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Cyberpunk has it's issues, ok, but Skyrim is literally a scam, even if I like it very much.

I have Skyrim on Switch, which is the third release since the original and the Legendary edition for the current gen. Three fucking releases and still there are lot of bugs unpatched from 2011.
 
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Kev Kev

Gold Member
Oct 25, 2012
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I ain’t reading all that

I’ve put probably close to 3k hours into Skyrim and fallout 4 and I’ll likely go back for more one day :lollipop_tongue::goog_tongue::lollipop_wink_tongue::lollipop_squint_tongue:
 
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Nhranaghacon

Banned
Sep 15, 2020
626
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Skyrim (November 2011):




Skyrim had some nice wilderness vistas and a few cool effects, but overall textures, models and environment density were on the average side for the time. And let's not even touch on stuff like animations and fluidity of movements, which was barely an improvement over Oblivion (which was itself a bit on the janky side even for 2006).

PS: Battlefield 3 released in October 2011, so 1 month before Skyrim, not 1.5 years after.
Alan wake, closed streamlined world plagued with invisible walls
Crysis 2, blatantly did not run well and had horrible graphical errors
Witcher 2 not even close to a massive open world RPG on the level of Skyrim, an on rails experience
And BF3 was broke for a year and more... on launch, unless you had the exact GPU in your PC that ran BF3 you could not run BF3.

And then there were the server issues.

You also undersold the graphics with those screenshots.




 
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