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SNK fighting game history and character development: do you want some lore with that?

Loona

Member
It's been almost a year since the previous SNK love thread, and since then SNK Playmore appears to have grown more active:

* created a Twitter account which they use regularly and have grown more active on Facebook too, which is a step forward

* continued releasing cellphone and pachinko/slot games, which are a sore spot for some fans, but some of those actually leave Asia now (you can get
the Garou Premium slot game for iOS outside Asia)

* while controversial, the Garou Premium and Samurai Shodown slot games have allowed them to experiment with 3D a bit more, which brings up the hope that future fighting game efforts will benefit from some of that experience

* while most of their past releases for phone have been ports of older NeoGeo games, more recent releases like Metal Slug Defense and The Rhythm of Fighters are essentially new games actually meant for touch controls from the ground up despite using (mostly) recycled assets, which means they're at least trying new things, and not doing too bad a job of it.

* these cellphone games are getting released worldwide almost simultaneously too, which may be due to the nature of the medium, but shows an awareness of the western fandom that seemed impossible years ago.

Yes, a lot of us want a new KoF, especially as we're reaching the series' 20th anniversary, some of us are still waiting for Garou 2, but SNKP must pick its battles carefully - KoF is their strongest brand, and unlike the company's primary acronym, that abbreviation isn't being taken over by a popular anime, which is probably why they're trademarking it - although if that means the series is rethinking how worthwhile it is to append a large sequel number to it with every new release, I'm not against it, 13 is big enough as it is.

Today I made a discovery that would have been great to add to the thread I mentioned above, but between its age, these recent developments and some mod advice, it seemed best to create a new one.

Right from the start in Garou Densetsu/Fatal Fury 1, SNK bothered to establish a number of story elements about several characters which did not affect gameplay at all, and not just regarding the playable characters - things like Tung Fu Rue (not playable) having been a teacher to Geese Howard (final boss, killed the protagonist's foster father).

Nobody asked for that or was likely to care, yet they bothered - and with every new game they added a few details spread around several characters, many of them sharing a city, South Town, which would serve as a stage for most of the Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting series - separated by a decade, yet closely tied together, mostly through a primary antagonist:



Follow only the games through their chronological order and you'll find a police commissioner turned crime boss who has killed a former rival with his bare hands before assuming practical control of his city. Along the way of managing the criminal underworld of one of the most physically violent cities in fiction he managed to find the time to get married and have a kid and dabble in the acquisition of mystical artifacts and related troubles, survive a near-fatal beating, and ultimately refuse to be saved from another by the same guy - which may not have been the actual end of him thanks to the aforementioned dabbling with mystical artifacts.

Still, he's too popular a character be gone forever, and nowadays it's accepted the KoF games work in an alternate continuity where he's still alive and kicking just so he'll stick around - and give infamously overpowered KoF bosses a run for their money as the ultimate challenge in games like KoF2002UM.

That's just one character, and outside the games there's a fair amount of supplemental material, although a lot of it is in Japanese and much of it never got officially translated - there are a few sources in English like the KoF official website, although that covers only KoF games and hasn't been updated to cover XIII yet.


Anyway, this was what I discovered today: http://meh.brpxqzme.net/timeline.html
A translation based on a couple of Japanese fansites, one of which is now defunct, and it contributes with a lot of interesting little factoids to the wider lore of the Last Blade/South Town continuity - some notable observations:

* The authorship of the Qin/Jin scrolls from FF3 and Real Bout is actually assigned to someone (a Qin Wang-long), and is the very first event in the timeline. His offspring are mentioned later as the ones possessing the Jin twins, something not directly referenced in the games.

* I recall occasional mentions of Lee Gaksuo (Takuma mentions him in his pre-match dialogue with Athena), an ancestor of AoF's Lee Pai Long whom Takuma respects, but had no idea he was born so close to the LB era - it would probably be a stretch to associate him with LB's Lee Rekka, but still interesting he got a mention.

* Related to that, also interesting that AoF's tiger and dragon titles were apparently once held by Gaksuo and Takuma

* 9-year-old Krauser beat up 15-year-old Geese

* Jeef Bogard and Hanzo Shiranui both took on Krauser when he couldn't have been older than 16... someone's got some 'splaining to do...

* Some Don Gonzalez set up a KoF tournament between the AoF2 and FF1 ones - never heard of the character... maybe that's from some light novel tie-in or something? The Geese Howard Story manga?...

* There's a mention that according to the Wild Ambition version of FF1 events (the former overrides the latter), Ripper spread the rumor that Geese died - and that in the original version of the story it took Geese 3 hours to die after hitting the pavement

* Billy's one act of disobedience to Geese, not destroying a Jin scroll, may actually be proof of his loyalty, if we go by Geese's RB2 ending

Well, this is all very interesting for some, but a lot of it is based on a time when SNK was doing very well, had their own hardware, and it was a greater concern for them to ensure that arcade content could work as console content and vice-versa.

Times have changed, however. The thing is, SNK's games have also changed a lot, and they made a whole lot of them. For the Fatal Fury series alone, every 2 or 3 games they'd completely revise the control scheme.

What remained throughout all of those changes?
The characters, the setting, and the lore.

That, in my opinion, is SNKP's greatest asset nowadays, and someone at the company clearly realized it while they were working on KoF XIII.
That game could have been their final effort as a gaming company, but fortunately, despite some missteps along the way, it ultimately did very well at all it set out to do, and helped keep the company afloat - I think it's safe to say we can eventually expect more from them in the future.

The interesting thing is how their smaller recent efforts are also showing some care and concern for their characters and lore:

* Metal Slug Defense lets you see the full names of every character and vehicle in the game that actually has one - that sort of thing wasn't visible in the actual games, but now fans can access it there

* Well, but Metal Slug is one of their famous titles, that makes sense, right - sure, but now with The Rhythm of Fighters they're clearly paying attention to much less famous material from their history through its assists - you get to see names of previously nameless characters from the likes of NAM-1975, even an enemy minion from the really old and blocky Sasuke VS Commander is available. Characters loosely tied to more established settings, like Red Dragon from 3-Count Bout (who after his game hasn't been mentioned since a Kensou/Raiden intro in KoF XIII) are in. There's a DLC pack featuring G-Mantle (who represents the NeoGeo), Neo Poke-kun (who represents the NGPC) and Kuroko (who represents just about every SNK character, since he can use practically all their moves in the games he's in).

* It may be sad for a lot of fans that Fatal Fury's latest iteration is a 3D slot game, but think about it like this - they took the opportunity to model as much as needed of South Town in 3D and gave a lot of characters new, mostly-plausible outfits. It would have been easier to use the same old outfits and use empty stylized backgrounds for everything.


There's still care for the finer work of the company at SNKP's offices - and I'm looking forward to what the future will bring.
What about you?
 
Very cool. I love story elements in my fighting games. I know they are usually pretty poor but as long as they are fun that's all that matters. I feel that I enjoy background stories for my fighting games because I quickly get attached to the characters as I spend hours trying to master their moves and combos.


Still prefer SF over KOF though, lol.
 
I'm still bitter about Geese not being in KOFXIII. Probably would've been busted to hell, but still, dude is one of my favorite "boss" characters ever. Whatever they do for the next game, whether it be another dream match or a reboot or whatever, I hope he's involved.

KOF in general has a very strong cast from all the games they're derived from. It's a shame that SNK probably doesn't have a big budget to work with, anymore, because I'd love to see them flesh their stories out more and make the connections more pronounced instead of things that you actively have to look out for.
 
i wish southtown was real

Can't deny it's a nicely developed place: http://www.mmcafe.com/southtown_map/

There are also these studies of it - in French - which go to show either a lot of though went into conceiving the place, or at least analyzing it, history, architecture and economy included:
http://neogeospirit.pagesperso-orange.fr/dossiers/southtown/dossier_southtown1.htm
http://www.lafautealamanette.org/post/2008/04/05/599-geographie-de-south-town

I'm still bitter about Geese not being in KOFXIII. Probably would've been busted to hell, but still, dude is one of my favorite "boss" characters ever. Whatever they do for the next game, whether it be another dream match or a reboot or whatever, I hope he's involved.

Well, there's always these to look at and dream - made for the iOS version of XIII - no idea if the next game will use the same graphical style as XIII:

kof13-geese-card.png

kof13-geese-card2.png


Looking these up reminds of a few other nods to their lore they made along with those:

Athena Asamiya summoning the other, more ancient Athena, wielding every weapon from her classic game:
kof13-athena-card2.png


The KoF97 grand finale:
kof13-card1.png


Clingy Mai failing the Bechdel test as usual:
kof13-card31.png


Takuma Sakazaki, concerned father:
kof13-card29.png


Takuma Sakazaki, peak human:
kof13-card14.png


KOF in general has a very strong cast from all the games they're derived from. It's a shame that SNK probably doesn't have a big budget to work with, anymore, because I'd love to see them flesh their stories out more and make the connections more pronounced instead of things that you actively have to look out for.

A lot of people want to see Garou 2 for the gameplay, others want closure for Rock's story - I want to see the results of Chonrei training with both Kim and Tung in the Real Bout 2 endings:

chonrei.gif


I hope SNKP does well enough to be able to make that playable someday.

Speaking of future prospects, it seems some older staff is returning to the company.
 
I long for a new Art of Fighting but I know it won't happen.
To tell you the truth I always preferred AoF and FF/Garou to KoF.


* 9-year-old Krauser beat up 15-year-old Geese
* Jeef Bogard and Hanzo Shiranui both took on 11-year-old Krauser... someone's got some 'splaining to do...
What!?
 
I love the fact that SNKP has been able to keep so much consistency and heart in their works, even in their less-relevant years. It really helps show how much respect those related with the company still have.

I wonder if the load of updates and additions to their 2 recent iPAD / Android games will pass on to whatever games they bring out in the close future? If I can't have KoF as often as I did in those late 90s, I'd love to have annual updates and bonuses dumped into the game every few months / year.

The best thing about KoF being the big series they keep working on... is that it's a great potential gateway to all SNK series in some way or another. Though Battle Coliseum is probably better at this thematically. Even KoF XII's lacking cinematics and stuff gave us a few AoF III Cameos, for goodness sakes. I'd love to see all those timeslip theories from KoF XIII's background cameos actually mean something in the next game.
 
kof13-card8.png


Yeah Shingo is awesome.

It would be cool if they let Kyo stay as he is in XIII and give Shingo the rekka style moving forward.

And from those KOF13 custom pics SNK made, Kim's is probably my fave:

kof13-card13.png

Nah. Shingo needs that Dan aspect to his game. What SNK needs to do is have Kyo train that game up to KoF XIII Takuma levels. Because Shingo's original moves are already baller enough. Shingooo Kiiiiick is best kick.
 
Nah. Shingo needs that Dan aspect to his game. What SNK needs to do is have Kyo train that game up to KoF XIII Takuma levels. Because Shingo's original moves are already baller enough. Shingooo Kiiiiick is best kick.

Yeah, they should definitely keep that Shingoness to his style. As well as the fun stuff like critical hits (which trigger since he apparently can't do moves properly so he puts in more strength than he should) and the random flame attacks he does by luck.
 
KoF story:
Tournament
Demons
Demons
Demons
Demons
Clones
Evil organization
European demons
Time travel, possibly with demons
 
I love SNK lore and I miss the old SNK so much.

KOF XIII was a game in the right direction and I really want them to find a way to ressurect the "Orochi Team". Shermie, Yashiro and Chris are awesome!

But honestly? I really think that KOF is over =/
(And SNK fighting games as well)
 
I wonder if Samurai Spirits has any market nowadays. Would love a new one, but SS style of combat seems the opposite of what people want/expect nowadays.

But man, seeing old man Haohmaru and Tam Tam clashing swords against a new menace would be great!
 
As if any other fighting series is any better!



But yeah, this. Precisely because of that.

Even Darkstalkers went the interdimensional + aliens route, lol. So yeah... they aren't even consistent. (I know this was not the point that either of you were making, but it is funny, nonetheless)

KoF 14 can easily make a comeback a la Xrd "sprites".

They'd just be the second company to take up the innovation, so there is zero shame.

Street Fighter will be the Johnny Come Lately, and third... if they want to prosper. Yes, SF4's visual - I refuse to call it artistic - direction is horrible. Horrible direction, like a P1 joystick stuck at "down".

Ah an SNK thread, can't leave without saying:

original KOF2002 > KOF2k2UM >> KOF98FE >>>> KOF13

YES.
Because Hinako.
 
I wonder if Samurai Spirits has any market nowadays. Would love a new one, but SS style of combat seems the opposite of what people want/expect nowadays.

But man, seeing old man Haohmaru and Tam Tam clashing swords against a new menace would be great!

Last Blade revived could pick up a devout following. It was ahead of the curve in a lot of respects, and pro matches are a thing of beauty.
 
Last Blade revived could pick up a devout following. It was ahead of the curve in a lot of respects, and pro matches are a thing of beauty.

Hmm, yeah, I could see that. Wonder if SNKP could do justice to Last Blade's amazing backgrounds with 3D though.
 
Romance @itzRomance · 19h
Everyone in latinoamerica and maybe around the world are talking about @ArcadeShock confirming SNK will announce KOF XIV at evo, source? Thx
Wut?
 
I really wish Arcade Shock hadn't made that tweet. They haven't followed up on it at all since. I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be let down. Is anyone from SNK even going to be there?
 
I long for a new Art of Fighting but I know it won't happen.
To tell you the truth I always preferred AoF and FF/Garou to KoF.

Those games and South Town are the heart and foundation of all that came after - I like their comparatively more grounded settings (until the Jin scrolls came along in FF3 and their continuity was linked to Last Blade's), more than KoF's apparent reliance on people's fire-based powers.


To quote the link in the OP:

* 1968
GeeseÂ’s mother Maria succumbs to illness about this time. Geese Howard (age 15) and Wolfgang Krauser (age 9!) face off.
* 1970
Sometime between 1966 and 1975, Jeff Bogard and Shiranui Hanzō faced Krauser. The distinctive cross-shaped scar on KrauserÂ’s forehead was due to JeffÂ’s Power Wave.
Sometime after 1968, Geese defeated Suō Tatsumi (grandfather of Blue Mary).

My bad on the Jeff/Hanzo/Krauser face-off bit, Krauser could have been 16 by then, thanks to the mentioned 1966-1975 interval.

The Geese/Krauser meeting is said to have happened when Geese tried to go kill his father (also Krauser's, they're canonically half-brothers) for abandoning his mother, but Krauser stopped him.

Clearly Stroheim physical conditioning is the best is the world! (also, somebody and SNK had a thing for Jojo, as was common at the time)

This could have triggered a sub-plot in Geese's history, his "collecting" of martial arts masters - he's confirmed to have studied under Tung Fu Rue (with Jeff), and Suo Tatsumi, Mary's (foster?) grandfather. His fighting style does change a bit between AoF2 and the FF era...

Speaking of Geese's mother, I wonder if that's who the nun in this picture is:

shinkiro6og.jpg


Yeah Shingo is awesome.

It would be cool if they let Kyo stay as he is in XIII and give Shingo the rekka style moving forward.

In their KoF2001 ending, Saishyu offers to train Shingo, so maybe he'd lean closer to the old man's moves - he's not as rekka-inclined, but with the exception of projectile use I figure Shingo would find a decent compromise of his own.

I actually prefer KoFXI's version of Kyo, who kept both his projectile and rekkas, those things don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I wonder if the load of updates and additions to their 2 recent iPAD / Android games will pass on to whatever games they bring out in the close future? If I can't have KoF as often as I did in those late 90s, I'd love to have annual updates and bonuses dumped into the game every few months / year.

The best thing about KoF being the big series they keep working on... is that it's a great potential gateway to all SNK series in some way or another. Though Battle Coliseum is probably better at this thematically. Even KoF XII's lacking cinematics and stuff gave us a few AoF III Cameos, for goodness sakes. I'd love to see all those timeslip theories from KoF XIII's background cameos actually mean something in the next game.

Well, an interesting thing about RoF is that it appears to have new voice samples, at least for some characters, when they beat/finish a song.
It seems unlikely new stuff would be recorded only for a rhythm game, so I wouldn't be surprised to see those making it to a bigger game.

The interesting thing is that Nakoruru from SS is also in the game, but I'm not 100% sure she got new voice samples too, but I think the artwork for her is new?...

As for an updates policy, I believe this is something a new KoF dream match game could excel at (and they usually do, they're always the most competitively respected) - they have lots of characters, precedents for using them in a plot-free, anything goes environment, and a huge body of artwork serving as a source for lots of possible alternative looks for everybody - I could imagine a KoF being designed from the ground up to be updatable indefinitely, especially if it's in 3D.

DoA was smart to try the LoL approach to F2P and DLC, but they lack the variety of characters and wholesome reputation to make it work as well as KoF (or SNK in general, if leaning toward a more NGBC-ish approach). Probably a bigger project than what SNKP may be able to handle, but I'd gladly throw my money at that.
 
I want to know the backstory of Iori's pants.

As an actual response, I was hugely into all of this stuff for years, and I'd love an even more fleshed out story mode for the next game. Is there a decent comic series or anything set in the KoF/FF universe?
 
I want to know the backstory of Iori's pants.

As an actual response, I was hugely into all of this stuff for years, and I'd love an even more fleshed out story mode for the next game. Is there a decent comic series or anything set in the KoF/FF universe?

Your best best are the KoF Another Day shorts - they were made to promote MI2 and XI and mix elements of both, even if they're meant to be different continuities, but treat the characters fairly in the short time they have to work with.
I particularly like Rock's dream sequence in one of them, major fuel for a pet theory...

Just about everything else cannot be found in English, or is a generally rubbish Hong Kong comic.

In English there are Hong Kong comics based on MI1, which like the games themselves, focus way too much on the original characters from that series.

In Japanese there is, of course, a lot more material, but a standout might be The Geese Howard Story, which focuses on the classic series antagonist from his youth to rise to power - it was written before games like RB1, I think, so it misses out on a few plot elements, and leaves out relatively important moments like meeting and training under Tung, but the fact that it even exists is pretty cool. Curiously, its author also wrote an AoF3 manga with Karman Cole as the PoV character, which is even more amazing.

I'd love to see a comic in English treating the setting as well as Udon treated their early SF comics - sometimes I think I'd even like to write that myself, but I'm probably missing a lot of critical little tidbits (who is that nun?!...) only available to someone able to read Japanese and with access to accurate reference material.

If Udon would release an SNK artbook not unlike their SF and Darkstalker ones, that would already be pretty great.
 
Great thread Loona, thanks.

SNK >> Capcom fighters


Especially with how SF4 has turned out with their disgusting art style

I like both, yet agree.

Interesting quote from Ken Masters.

Ah an SNK thread, can't leave without saying:

original KOF2002 > KOF2k2UM >> KOF98FE >>>> KOF13

KOF2K2UM = KOF13 >> KOF98FE >> original KOF2002

for me.

KoF story:
Tournament
Demons
Demons
Demons
Demons
Clones
Evil organization
European demons
Time travel, possibly with demons

More like
Evil guy
Evil Omega guy
Demons
Demons
Dream match
Clones & Evil Organization
WMD & Evil Organization
Evil Organization's final bid on world dominance
Dream Match
Time demons
Time "Orochi" demons
Time demons



Hope there's something worth looking forwrard to on Monday.


Say what!?!
 
I love SNK lore and I miss the old SNK so much.

KOF XIII was a game in the right direction and I really want them to find a way to ressurect the "Orochi Team". Shermie, Yashiro and Chris are awesome!

But honestly? I really think that KOF is over =/
(And SNK fighting games as well)

Shut your trap!
 
I wonder if Samurai Spirits has any market nowadays. Would love a new one, but SS style of combat seems the opposite of what people want/expect nowadays.

But man, seeing old man Haohmaru and Tam Tam clashing swords against a new menace would be great!

SS characters keep topping SNK char popularity polls, so I think it's safe to say the love is still there. There just needs to be a good game to go along with it, and SEN/Edge of Destiny was definitely NOT that.

Since Namco has all but effectively killed Soulcalibur, I'd say the time is right for SNKP to bring out a new 3D weapons-based fighter and restore SS's relevance on a worldwide scale. But that's depending on if SNKP sees it the same way, when they stated a 3D SS was in the works, along with 3D KOF.
 
Since Namco has all but effectively killed Soulcalibur, I'd say the time is right for SNKP to bring out a new 3D weapons-based fighter and restore SS's relevance on a worldwide scale. But that's depending on if SNKP sees it the same way, when they stated a 3D SS was in the works, along with 3D KOF.

The SC Twitter nowadays is pretty depressing - every pic is a female character in a bikini, not even the Team Ninja one plays up that sort of thing that much.

The depressing thing is that there was already a SC/SS crossover, if an indirect one: Ivy, Cham Cham and Mina in Queen's Gate Spiral Chaos.

Considering how much SS Sen leaned towrds SC gameplay, the series could work together much better than that...
 
SNK missed a chance by not porting SS 64 arcade title to consoles.
still hasnt been emulated correctly.

but perhaps consoles were too underpowered at that time....
 
Insane amount of lore that can be delved into that some how makes sort of sense is what more fighters should do. There are some that do, but I wish others would do more of that, like SF. Instead of using comic books, always felt that was ( even if they are enjoyable ) a cop-out. Not saying you can't have outside comics, I am however saying if that is where a game lore is coming from that should be in the game, thats not good.

SNK >> Capcom fighters


Especially with how SF4 has turned out with their disgusting art style

Successful.


lJ9FOmM.gif
 
I loved both fighting giants, Capcom or SNK, but if you forced me to pick one, I would pick SNK prcisely because the lore. Since the first Street Fighter 2 my main motivation for playing fighters was knowing the personal story and ending of characters, and I always found SNK put much more care on this than Capcom.

Special salutation between friends/rivals/enemies, personalized intro and victory dialogue according to your opponent, meaty story, details in the scenarios... SNK always excelled of that and that defined my taste for the genre.
 
Insane amount of lore that can be delved into that some how makes sort of sense is what more fighters should do. There are some that do, but I wish others would do more of that, like SF. Instead of using comic books, always felt that was ( even if they are enjoyable ) a cop-out. Not saying you can't have outside comics, I am however saying if that is where a game lore is coming from that should be in the game, thats not good.

Not putting it all in the games is a constraint of the arcade medium - SNK had to find some nice compromises when their games were simultaneously meant for arcade and console, and pulled off a fair amount of characterization in things like special character intro even in plotless games like KoF98.

Sadly, the SS RPG and KoF: Kyo were never localized...
 
kof13-card8.png


Yeah Shingo is awesome.

It would be cool if they let Kyo stay as he is in XIII and give Shingo the rekka style moving forward.

And from those KOF13 custom pics SNK made, Kim's is probably my fave:

kof13-card13.png

When were these, and the ones above made? They original or fanmade?
 
Not putting it all in the games is a constraint of the arcade medium - SNK had to find some nice compromises when their games were simultaneously meant for arcade and console, and pulled off a fair amount of characterization in things like special character intro even in plotless games like KoF98.

Sadly, the SS RPG and KoF: Kyo were never localized...

I mean , while SNK probobly can't do because their SNK, maybe capcom could throw some money at an actual story mode like neither realms does, I would like it to be more segmented because sf characters working towards one goal would be odd. That said Actually having a story mode is something neither realms does that need more credit for.
 
SNK, for me, is definitely the company which made the most good fighting games. I just love The Last Blade 2 or Garou: Mark of the Wolves.
 
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