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So I believe FF is dead. But what about its music?

Square Enix consistently employs some of the best musicians and the quality of recordings is insane.

I am really glad this is something that never faltered over the years.

Even the remastered music in FFX and KH games was remarkable.
 
Eyothrie said:
Those tracks are great on their own, but they don't tie into the characters, bosses, environments, story, and gameplay as well as Uematsu's tracks do. They're are on the periphery. Great background music.

Link me to a track that matches the feel of Kefka (Dancing Mad) or Sephiroth (One Winged Angel). Or a track that is as haunting as the Mystery Train scene in FF6. Or a track that better integrates what you hear and what you see on the screen than the Opera House music/scene in FF6. Or a track that captures the emotion of Cecil and Rosa's relationship in FF4 (Theme of Love). I could go on and on..
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Challenge accepted. You're welcome to disagree, of course.
 
Falk said:
Kingdom Hearts does borrow a lot stylistically from some of Shimomura's previous works, but it has grown to a point where Kingdom Hearts music is quite identifiable with its own tropes, even. Ishimoto and Sekito's contributions to the franchise, for example, are very distinctly "Kingdom Hearts" flavored.
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This is true. I was very surprised when I learned Shimomura didn't do all the music for BBS and 3D herself
 
Falk said:
Kingdom Hearts does borrow a lot stylistically from some of Shimomura's previous works, but it has grown to a point where Kingdom Hearts music is quite identifiable with its own tropes, even. Ishimoto and Sekito's contributions to the franchise, for example, are very distinctly "Kingdom Hearts" flavored.
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Indeed. But I find weird that many people are like "Shimomura? Oh, Kingdom Hearts OST" and they forget every other stuff she made. Personally, I don't even think that the stuff we've heard from FFXV sounds like KH, and yet I see a lot of people comparing... KH developed more of an identity for itself than for Shimomura IMO.


Also, thanks for reminding me about Ishimoto, I love his work in Crisis Core and Type-0, he is definitely top tier, Price of Freedom is amazing in every aspect.
 
Falk said:
Challenge accepted. You're welcome to disagree, of course.
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The problem is, the scenes themselves weren't that great because (IMO) FFXIII didn't have great plot elements. It sort of pales in comparison due to that reason.
 
Hahahaha I actually messed up and wanted to link separate tracks for Kefka and Sephiroth.

THANKFULLY MY EDIT TIMESTAMP IS BEFORE YOUR POST

(Mitsuto Suzuki did that one)

wmlk said:
The problem is, the scenes themselves weren't that great because (IMO) FFXIII didn't have great plot elements. It sort of pales in comparison due to that reason.
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I'd honestly say that it's more of the fundamental principle of scoring changing over the years, like I previously mentioned. But you're right; for people who care not for XIII trilogy, the music makes a smaller holistic impact.
 
Falk said:
I'd honestly say that it's more of the fundamental principle of scoring changing over the years, like I previously mentioned. But you're right; for people who care not for XIII trilogy, the music makes a smaller holistic impact.
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The post you were replying to was linked with some of the strongest scenarios in the series' history, so it's already biased against FFXIII.
 
Mitsuto Suzuki needs to work on the mainline FFs. It's absolutely criminal we haven't heard more from him outside of LR and (I think?) Dissidia.

Along with LR's Final Boss theme, he was also in charge of Nova Chrysalia and Awaiting the Celebration. These were the best tracks from the OST and he outclasses the likes of Hamauzu and Mizuta.

And these are tracks that you simply wouldn't hear in older FFs. So just comparing themes is simply the wrong thing to do when you consider how much more volume there is with the new FFs and the actual composition changing over the series' history.
 
Not everyone thinks the same things. I've never thought FF is dead as long as it continues to have completely different systems for each title. How can you say something is dead when it reinvents itself constantly? FF13 and FF14 1.0 were lame ducks, but FF14 2.0 was great, and FF15 looks very promising.

On the whole, i agree, FF13 and XIII-2 had amazing music, and production values...granted LR did not, and XIII-2 suffered performance issues, but the least you could say about the first and second games was that the money was there.
 
wmlk said:
Mitsuto Suzuki needs to work on the mainline FFs. It's absolutely criminal we haven't heard more from him outside of LR and (I think?) Dissidia.

Along with LR's Final Boss theme, he was also in charge of Nova Chrysalia and Awaiting the Celebration. These were the best tracks from the OST and he outclasses the likes of Hamauzu and Mizuta.

And these are tracks that you simply wouldn't hear in older FFs. So just comparing themes is simply the wrong thing to do when you consider how much more volume there is with the new FFs and the actual composition changing over the series' history.
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dude

KoopaTheCasual said:
You know.... I actually stopped typing, considered correcting it, and said "no one cares", when making that comment.

Why you gotta do me like that? ):
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HAHAHA I was actually referring to the topic title. I actually didn't realize you gaffed too!
 
I had just started playing LR and for all the problems I have with it, and all the issues XIII and XIII-2 had, their music is fantastic. The other night, I was just standing in game listening to the music.
 
Falk said:
Challenge accepted. You're welcome to disagree, of course.
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They're great tracks, but...

1) Bhunivelze lacks any personality whatsoever. No character development. The track is just music. It doesn't tie into the "feel" of the boss. Its background music. It doesn't come close to capturing the feel of this boss like Kefka's Dancing Mad.

2) Jet Bahamut - see #1.

3) This track is just a variation of the FF13 theme (see Saber's Edge for the exact same lead melody). Its the "Oerba" theme, but in no way does this track tie into this specific environment as well as Uematsu's Mystery Train theme does.

3) This is just a rearrangement of the FF13 battle theme that is played over and over in various forms throughout the trilogy. Its simply a new arrangement. Have you played the Opera Scene in FF6? The music is an integral

4) Another variation of the Noel theme that is played over and over in XIII-2 and LR. Its a good track, but it doesn't tie into the story, specifically Noel's story, as well as the Theme of Love ties into Cecil and Rosa's relationship in FF4
 
Ganon Dragmire said:
and speaking of tracks that tie to characters and bosses

in this case both.

but if you want character themes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSDrVa39FvI
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It may sound good, but the character themes were pretty bad in FFXIII in my opinion as I felt that the character development was trash, and character themes should accompany the character more than anything.

For example, TIfa's Theme in FFVII:AC sounds beautiful but it also ties in with the development of her character, which was well done, and the theme actually made sense in context. I can't say the same for any of the FFXIII games.

Eyothrie said:
They're great tracks, but...

1) Bhunivelze lacks any personality whatsoever. No character development. The track is just music. It doesn't tie into the "feel" of the boss. Its background music. It doesn't come close to capturing the feel of this boss like Kefka's Dancing Mad.

2) Jet Bahamut - see #1.

3) This tracks is just a variation of the FF13 theme (see Saber's Edge for the exact same lead melody). Its the "Oerba" theme, but it in no way does this track tie into this specific environment as well as Uematsu's Mystery Train theme does

3) This is just a rearrangement of the FF13 battle theme that is played over and over in various forms throughout the trilogy. Its simply a new arrangement. Have you played the Opera Scene in FF6?

4) Another variation of the Noel theme that is played over and over in XIII-2 and LR. Its a good track, but it doesn't tie into the story, specifically Noel's story, as well as the Theme of Love ties into Cecil and Rosa's relationship in FF4
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You literally picked the best scenarios in the franchise's history, so obviously the meaning is going to pale in comparison. It really is a very weird comparison to make.
 
MrMatt555 said:
Where's The Ark?


My Man..
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Great music! However, I would also add both final battle themes of LR as well since that battle is so epic. Also, <<LR ending spoilers!>>
the rendition of the Promise as the new universe is created and Mog and the Eidolens leave for the new world
is one of the most, if not THE most, haunting pieces of music in the FF library.
 
wmlk said:
You literally picked the best scenarios in the franchise's history, so obviously the meaning is going to pale in comparison. It really is a very weird comparison to make.
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I was making exact same point as you. I pointed out tracks from FF4 and FF6 that better tie into characters, bosses, environments, etc etc, and you referenced a track from FF7.
 
Eyothrie said:
I was making exact same point as you. I pointed out tracks from FF4 and FF6 that better tie into characters, bosses, environments, etc etc, and you referenced a track from FF7.
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No, my post rather shows why your post was a one-sided comparison. Obviously something won't "capture the emotion" from FFXIII because it clearly has storytelling issues. The music itself is worse because of it since it doesn't tie in well with the scenario in question. It's a weird comparison to make because it's less about how great Uematsu's music is and more about how great the overall scenario was.

DarknessTear said:
It's not bad at least until 1:50 - 2:34. I don't really see how this is any better than the ARR stuff, honestly but this is all subjective regardless.
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Yeah it's subjective. I think a lot of ARR stuff is better than Uematsu's stuff, but Uematsu's bread and butter (like the theme in question) is better than what's currently in ARR, IMO. Tracks like those are a part of FF's identity more than anything.
 
Eyothrie said:
They're great tracks, but...

1) Bhunivelze lacks any personality whatsoever. No character development. The track is just music. It doesn't tie into the "feel" of the boss. Its background music. It doesn't come close to capturing the feel of this boss like Kefka's Dancing Mad.

2) Jet Bahamut - see #1.

3) This track is just a variation of the FF13 theme (see Saber's Edge for the exact same lead melody). Its the "Oerba" theme, but in no way does this track tie into this specific environment as well as Uematsu's Mystery Train theme does.

3) This is just a rearrangement of the FF13 battle theme that is played over and over in various forms throughout the trilogy. Its simply a new arrangement. Have you played the Opera Scene in FF6?

4) Another variation of the Noel theme that is played over and over in XIII-2 and LR. Its a good track, but it doesn't tie into the story, specifically Noel's story, as well as the Theme of Love ties into Cecil and Rosa's relationship in FF4
Click to expand...

I can't believe number 1 here. Did you pay attention to the story? Granted there is a lot that is in the background among the mythologies but Bhuni has a very clear personality that unveils itself across the story. Without giving any further information that could be spoilerific, looking back at the storyline and certain characters after you cleared the game can give you more perspective into his motivations and actions.
 
Eyothrie said:
Those tracks are great on their own, but they don't tie into the characters, bosses, environments, story, and gameplay as well as Uematsu's tracks do. They're are on the periphery. Great background music.

Link me to a track that matches the feel of Kefka (Dancing Mad) or Sephiroth (One Winged Angel). Or a track that is as haunting as the Mystery Train scene in FF6. Or a track that integrates what you hear and what you see on the screen better than the Opera House music/scene in FF6. Or a track that captures the emotion of Cecil and Rosa's relationship in FF4 (Theme of Love). I could go on and on..
Click to expand...

I think I would completely disagree with you there. To me the music and complex motif structures interwoven throughout the game's music used are integral to character and scene association in XIII.

I think this could be said about all the FF games really. I put it up to the listener's capability to discern such though, which means not everyone has the same capacity for retention and understanding of the more complex music Hamauzu brought with him.
 
wmlk said:
No, my post rather shows why your post was a one-sided comparison. Obviously something won't "capture the emotion" from FFXIII because it clearly has storytelling issues. The music itself is worse because of it because it doesn't tie in well with the scenario in question. It's a weird comparison to make because it's less about how great Uematsu's music is and more about how great the overall scenario was.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The scenarios I mentioned werent built around existing music. Uematsu wrote the music based on the scenario, and that is brilliant.
 
Eyothrie said:
I disagree. The scenarios I mentioned werent built around existing music. Uematsu wrote the music based on the scenario, and that is brilliant.
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I'm not talking about that at all. I'm saying that scenarios in FFXIII are crap, and the best scenarios from FF are well...obviously the best. That's why the music attached to it also sucks in comparison.

For instance, what music can really "capture the emotion" in FFXIII when the scenarios didn't have any to begin with?
 
Kagari said:
Music has never been one of FF's problems. In fact, I would argue that FFXIV has some of the best stuff in recent time, including the best vocal song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96rrbo-_Ik

Other examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZDnlAg3Pk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMBZEHSPyxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXEOBvuvkG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urI20FR1-EA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urI20FR1-EA
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How could you not link Ramuh's theme?

I think this is clearly the fan favourite from what I see across the Internets.

EDIT: this is 2 gud
 
wmlk said:
I'm not talking about that at all. I'm saying that scenarios in FFXIII are crap, and the best scenarios from FF are well...obviously the best. That's why the music attached to it also sucks in comparison.

For instance, what music can really "capture the emotion" in FFXIII when the scenarios didn't have any to begin with?
Click to expand...

Hope losing his mother
Snow and Serah's relationship
Snow eventually losing Serah to crystal
Sazh and his son Djah
Sazh losing Djah to crystal
Vanille's loneliness

Just off the top of my head thinking about the events in the first game of the trilogy. I could go on an on. There were poignant moments that could have been captured better with more memorable music. Instead, the entire soundtrack feels like it was written outside of the events of the game.
 
Eyothrie said:
Hope losing his mother
Snow and Serah's relationship
Snow eventually losing Serah
Sazh and Djah relationship
Sazh losing Djah to crystal
Vanille's loneliness

Just off the top of my head. I could go on an on. There were poignant moments that could have been captured better with memorable music. Instead, the entire soundtrack feels like it was written outside of the events of the game.
Click to expand...

i thought of this when he posted that question
 
Eyothrie said:
Hope losing his mother
Snow and Serah's relationship
Snow eventually losing Serah to crystal
Sazh and his son Djah
Sazh losing Djah to crystal
Vanille's loneliness

Just off the top of my head thinking about the events in the first game of the trilogy. I could go on an on. There were poignant moments that could have been captured better with more memorable music. Instead, the entire soundtrack feels like it was written outside of the events of the game.
Click to expand...

That's strange when the popular opinion is clearly that FFXIII had a subpar story and plot elements. All of those plot events (other than Sazh losing his son) had major issues in writing, whereas the opera scene for example was written flawlessly.

Just how Uematsu's themes in The Last Story's poor scenarios aren't that gripping emotionally, but they definitely are in The Last Odyssey's stellar VN scenes.
 
Ganon Dragmire said:
i thought of this when he posted that question
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There's a nice interview where Hamauzu explains the decision for guitar in Hope's theme versus piano (which it originally was). Association is something that was touched upon, iirc.

wmlk said:
That's strange when the popular opinion is clearly that FFXIII had a subpar story and plot elements. All of those plot events (other than Sazh losing his son) had major issues in writing, whereas the opera scene for example was written flawlessly.
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You could argue while the music was great, the scenario was cliche (this is totally subjective though). Back when it came out though, it was a nice surprise.

I think the re-orchestrations/arrangements of the piece for live performers has increased in the piece's cult following though, and seeing it performed live was definitely an out-of-this-world experience. If anyone reading this ever has a chance to go to a Distant Worlds concert, don't hesitate to go. It's well worth the money.
 
Kagari said:
I like Titan's theme "Under the Weight" a lot more than Ramuh. For me it goes something like... Titan > Garuda > Leviathan > Ramuh > Ifrit > Shiva (only first part is good) in regards to the primal themes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjozvK2C9dA
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I came to post Under the Weight; leaving satisfied now.

Did Tempest get posted yet? Easily my favorite battle music and that's after having to listen to it for four months straight.

Kagari said:
XIII had some decent music but I would argue games like IX, X, XI and XIV edge it out by quite a bit.
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Agreed, but then 13-2 and LR are right up there with the best of the best, too. FF13's OST was too....grandeur and epic. I love variety in my music. I don't want it to sound like generic AAA Hollywood Lord of the Rings stuff.
 
Kagari said:
I like Titan's theme "Under the Weight" a lot more than Ramuh. For me it goes something like... Titan > Garuda > Leviathan > Ramuh > Ifrit > Shiva (only first part is good) in regards to the primal themes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjozvK2C9dA
Click to expand...

For me it goes Garuda > Titan > Ifrit > Ramuh > Leviathan (Sounds too much like Sonic the Hedgehog music to me) > Shiva (First part is awesome, but that second part is so horrendous it brings the whole thing down).
 
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