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So I hacked Skyward Sword and fixed the shitty controls

jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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UPDATE:

Here's my finished work:


(disclosure: I don't work for Titan but I am a mod on their forum)

Also please ignore my input lag and video quality. I am playing on a 10 year old factory second TV that I bought for $200 and filming it with a 5 year old phone.

******************************************************************

Alright I didn't "hack" it, title is clickbait. I reprogrammed the controls using a Titan Two. Anyway here's my work in progress:


While I love the motion for combat, I think they botched the button-only mode. What I've done is a proof of concept really, there's a good chance I won't bother finishing it unless I get really annoyed at the motion controls (it may happen, I can't stand using motion to fly the bird). I would make it so you'd press two buttons for a diagonal slice etc ( X+Y to slice up, Y+B to slice down). Since the ZR button is unused I'd probably use that for sprint, and remap a few other things to the right stick. Another idea might to map ALL combat to one button, but use the left stick to choose direction. A bit of experimentation would be needed. It's amazing how with just 5 minutes of programming and I've already created a control scheme that feels 10x better than Nintendo's. I don't think my shitty little video quite captures how snappy and good my new controls feel.

I did something similar with For Honor - I moved all the analogue stick controls to buttons and it plays like a dream:


I hate analogue triggers or sticks for anything that should be a digital movement. There is way too much travel. It feels yuck. That’s why I’m always gushing over the digital triggers in the Wii U Pro controller.

So what do you think ladies and gents? Should I finish this off? I've got a house renovation to attend to so maybe I'll do that instead :)

EDIT 1: Ok so I decided to continue working on it. First progress update here: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/so-i...d-the-shitty-controls.1613401/#post-264163755
 
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TheDreadBaron

Member
Oct 27, 2019
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I applaud your efforts! This has no use for me but I’m sure there’s a ton of people that would use it.

I’m interested in developing a control solution for smash ultimate that would let me switch from something like 50% to 100% maximum output on the analog stick, would this Titan Two allow me to do something like that?
 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
Jun 29, 2020
3,187
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Alright I didn't hack it, title is clickbait
happy soviet GIF by hoppip
 

Barakov

Member
Sep 30, 2006
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Alright I didn't hack it, title is clickbait. I reprogrammed the controls using a Titan Two. Anyway here's my work in progress:


It's a proof of concept really. There's a good chance I won't bother finishing it unless I get really annoyed at the motion controls (it may happen). I would make it so you'd press two buttons for a diagonal slice etc ( X+Y to slice up, Y+B to slice down). Since the ZR button is unused I'd probably use that for sprint, and remap a few other things to the right stick. Another idea might to map ALL combat to one button, but use the left stick to choose direction. A bit of experimentation would be needed. It's amazing how with just 5 minutes of programming and I've already created a control scheme that feels 10x better than Nintendo's. I don't think my shitty little video quite captures how snappy and good my new controls feel.

I did something similar with For Honor - I moved all the analogue stick controls to buttons and it plays like a dream:


I hate analogue triggers or sticks for anything that should be a digital movement. There is way too much travel. It feels yuck. That’s why I’m always gushing over the digital triggers in the Wii U Pro controller.

So what do you think ladies and gents? Should I finish this off? I've got a house renovation to attend to so maybe I'll do that instead :)
frustrated frustration GIF
 

jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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ZR is unused with gamepad controls? How are items used, then?

Don't know I'm only like 20 mins into the game so maybe it is used. I haven't played the original in 10 years, I don't remember much.

The objective here isn't to get fixated on this proof of concept I threw together in 5 minutes and argue out the specifics of why I chose a certain button mapping or whatever. It's about demonstrating some new ideas.
 
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jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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I applaud your efforts! This has no use for me but I’m sure there’s a ton of people that would use it.

I’m interested in developing a control solution for smash ultimate that would let me switch from something like 50% to 100% maximum output on the analog stick, would this Titan Two allow me to do something like that?

Yeah it's the best console accessory I've ever used. I love it :)
 
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Gifmaker

Member
Oct 24, 2017
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Don't know I'm only like 20 mins into the game so maybe it is used. I haven't played the original in 10 years, I don't remember much.

The objective here isn't to get fixated on this proof of concept I threw together in 5 minutes and argue out the specifics of why I chose a certain button mapping or whatever. It's about demonstrating some new ideas.
I get that, I was just curious because I already read in another thread sentiments about ZR being unused, so I wondered if that was true.
 

jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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I get that, I was just curious because I already read in another thread sentiments about ZR being unused, so I wondered if that was true.

That could have been my impressions you read. I went to the control guide in the Help section and looked at the button mappings and X and ZR don't have any mappings at all. Maybe that image gets updated over time as you progress though I'm not sure. If it doesn't then I have to say it's very odd that two of the best buttons on the controller go unused.
 
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jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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OMG so I continued working on this and it's brilliant!!


I've made it so you can move the camera without having to hold L, and have remapped Sprint to the L button.

Plays like a dream!!

Next up: directional attacks. Should be a piece of cake to program, I'll report back.
 
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jigglet

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May 18, 2020
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My original idea of multiple button presses for diagonal strikes is going to take a ton more work than I expected. If I had more time or the resources of a big company like Nintendo I believe I would be able to optimise it to work well. I won't bother as this is just a hobby for me. So what I've done is made it so you still use the stick for directional strikes (when locked in), otherwise you use the face buttons. I've just tested this and it works really well.
 

wvnative

Member
Feb 10, 2016
1,706
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Alright I didn't hack it, title is clickbait. I reprogrammed the controls using a Titan Two. Anyway here's my work in progress:


While I love the motion for combat, I think they botched the button-only mode. What I've done is a proof of concept really, there's a good chance I won't bother finishing it unless I get really annoyed at the motion controls (it may happen, I can't stand using motion to fly the bird). I would make it so you'd press two buttons for a diagonal slice etc ( X+Y to slice up, Y+B to slice down). Since the ZR button is unused I'd probably use that for sprint, and remap a few other things to the right stick. Another idea might to map ALL combat to one button, but use the left stick to choose direction. A bit of experimentation would be needed. It's amazing how with just 5 minutes of programming and I've already created a control scheme that feels 10x better than Nintendo's. I don't think my shitty little video quite captures how snappy and good my new controls feel.

I did something similar with For Honor - I moved all the analogue stick controls to buttons and it plays like a dream:


I hate analogue triggers or sticks for anything that should be a digital movement. There is way too much travel. It feels yuck. That’s why I’m always gushing over the digital triggers in the Wii U Pro controller.

So what do you think ladies and gents? Should I finish this off? I've got a house renovation to attend to so maybe I'll do that instead :)

EDIT 1: Ok so I decided to continue working on it. First progress update here: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/so-i...d-the-shitty-controls.1613401/#post-264163755

So are you good with GPC scripting? I use a cronus zen. Either way, since it seems your good with scripting, would you know a way to map motion pointers to the right stick? I'm asking for another game, for mario galaxy
 

jigglet

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So are you good with GPC scripting? I use a cronus zen. Either way, since it seems your good with scripting, would you know a way to map motion pointers to the right stick? I'm asking for another game, for mario galaxy

Yeah funny you ask, I'm actually about to code that right now for SS.
 

wvnative

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Yeah funny you ask, I'm actually about to code that right now for SS.

I have zero interest in Zelda games but with my disease I can't do motion controls, Mario Galaxy has always been a game beyond my reach, and nobody on the cronus forums were willing to help me.

Do you know if Cronus and Titan use the same code language? If they do, maybe I could try your SS script for Galaxy on my Cronus?
 
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jigglet

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I have zero interest in Zelda games but with my disease I can't do motion controls, Mario Galaxy has always been a game beyond my reach, and nobody on the cronus forums were willing to help me.

Do you know if Cronus and Titan use the same code language? If they do, maybe I could try your SS script for Galaxy on my Cronus?

Don't know sorry.
 
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jigglet

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Alright I've finished my work on this, the only slight tweak I've had to make was to move the boost button from X to Y when you're flying your Loftwing. I couldn't be bothered explaining why I had to do this (it's a tad complicated) but other than that I haven't had to do anything that might confuse the player. I've published it for free for anyone who owns a Titan Two to use.

Enjoy.
 
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jigglet

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I've made one more tweak: I made it so the L shoulder button remapping only activates if you are moving. This way there is almost no chance it'll interfere with the Switch OS (I'm pretty sure the shoulder buttons are used in the menus).

I've been playing this for hours now and it controls like a dream.
 

jigglet

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I just implemented Easy Spin Attacks - just double tap a button instead of wiggling the stick left and right three times (what a floppy mess that is):

 
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heringer

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Could you make a mod so you have to hold L and ZL to use the sword while camera defaults to the right stick? :D
 

jigglet

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Could you make a mod so you have to hold L and ZL to use the sword while camera defaults to the right stick? :D

Why not both?


I have full camera controls without having to hold L, and I also have direct sword controls.

And then when you're using Z targeting, then the analogue stick works like normal for combat, allowing you to do diagonal slices.
 
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heringer

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Jan 7, 2009
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Why not both?


I have full camera controls without having to hold L, and I also have direct sword controls.

And then when you're using Z targeting, then the analogue stick works like normal for combat, allowing you to do diagonal slices.
I mean just swap the need of holding L to use the sword instead of the camera, since I like using the sticks to control the sword. That would be ideal to me, but I know I shouldn't ask lol. :p

Your solution is pretty clever though!

How did you map the functions of the face button, like X (you will need it to use the harp)?
 
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jigglet

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I have further optimised the controls.

I now only use the X and Y buttons for attacking, so it plays even more like a traditional Zelda game at this point. Using A and B was annoying because if you pressed them repeatedly it would sheath the sword.

So this is where I have landed:

X and Y for attacking. If you need to slice in any other direction, then you hold the ZL button which then reactivates the right stick (which works well because obviously you can't control the camera while locked on).

X and Y obviously limits you to slicing in only 2 of the 8 directions, but this works perfectly well because 99% of the game does not require directional slices as you're just cutting grass, smashing pots, killing grunts. The real fights that require precision will be locked on anyway which will then reactivate the stick.

More testing is needed but I'm really happy with this so far.
 
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jigglet

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How did you map the functions of the face button, like X (you will need it to use the harp)?

Ah sheit. I haven't gotten that far yet and since it's been 10 years since I lasted played this I didn't realise this would be a problem :(

I'll figure out a solution though. I've been coding for Titan for 7 years now and there are very few problems I've not been able to solve.
 

wvnative

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Feb 10, 2016
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Ah sheit. I haven't gotten that far yet and since it's been 10 years since I lasted played this I didn't realise this would be a problem :(

I'll figure out a solution though. I've been coding for Titan for 7 years now and there are very few problems I've not been able to solve.

Damn, too bad I don't have a titan
 

Vae_Victis

Member
Mar 4, 2020
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OP, you are not playing your Nintendo™ single player game the way Nintendo™ intended. The authorities have already been alerted and officers are on their way to your home.

No wait, you don't seem to live in Japan. It's all fine then :messenger_grinning:
 

jigglet

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I've reworked it again.

I originally made it so double tapping the Y button would activate a spin attack, now I have made it so you have to hold down Y for 1 second. I thought it made it feel more like a classic Zelda game.

My updated demo video:



It really feels like I'm playing a traditional Zelda game now.
 
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jigglet

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I just implemented sticky radial menus. It works SO much better. The current controls are obviously a hangover from the motion controls that were sloppily ported to the analogue stick. Very lazy job. Here's how it should have been:



It really saddens me to see devs put so little thought into their controls, especially a company like Nintendo.
 
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6502

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Jan 25, 2021
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Nice work.

But you are condemned for incorrect use of "hack" and debasement of its value as a term.
 

jigglet

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Nice work.

But you are condemned for incorrect use of "hack" and debasement of its value as a term.

Yeah yeah I know. I just didn't know the right term to describe what I've done that wouldn't confuse the shit out of people who aren't familiar with this sort of thing.
 
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Kev Kev

Gold Member
Oct 25, 2012
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This is awesome! I noped out as soon as I heard what they did with the controls, but with your mod I may actually play this game one day! Cant believe how dumb games company’s are sometimes. Like seriously? THAT is the best you could do Nintendo? Unbelievable

And then they go and sell it for full price? What a bunch of assholes. And don’t get me started on Square Enix.
 
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6502

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Yeah yeah I know. I just didn't know the right term to describe what I've done that wouldn't confuse the shit out of people who aren't familiar with this sort of thing.
I am teasing. It is fab and well worth sharing :)
 

keefged4

Neo Member
Mar 12, 2021
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Latest update to this has broken Y & X, Y is constantly bringing up the Harp, and X is acting like its ZR
 

jigglet

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Latest update to this has broken Y & X, Y is constantly bringing up the Harp, and X is acting like its ZR

I've completely reworked it so:

1) Y is the only combat button.
2) X has been converted to throwing bombs. Press it once to throw, or roll it by pressing X while holding Y.

I found that dedicating X to swipe up was a huge waste. You only need to charge to sword a few times during the game, whereas you need to use your bomb all the time. So I thought I would make Y the dedicated bomb button instead. Hope that makes sense.

To make up for this, I've made Y swipe in 4 directions now, instead of 2. It's very cool, if you tap it repeatedly it will swipe left, right, then left diagonal up and right diagonal up. Also if you pay close attention there's a very cool bit of logic at play: if you swipe less than 4 times and stop for more than 2 seconds, it will reset the animation sequence. For example if you swipe left then right, stop for a second, it will restart at swiping left. I've tried to make it feel exactly like the original Zelda games :)

Another change I've made is instead of double tapping to do a spin attack, you hold the button down for 1 second. This way it plays (again) exactly like the traditional Zelda games.

Have a watch of my latest video to see all the changes:

 
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keefged4

Neo Member
Mar 12, 2021
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I've completely reworked it so:

1) Y is the only combat button.
2) X has been converted to throwing bombs. Press it once to throw, or roll it by pressing X while holding Y.

I found that dedicating X to swipe up was a huge waste. You only need to charge to sword a few times during the game, whereas you need to use your bomb all the time. So I thought I would make Y the dedicated bomb button instead. Hope that makes sense.

To make up for this, I've made Y swipe in 4 directions now, instead of 2. It's very cool, if you tap it repeatedly it will swipe left, right, then left diagonal up and right diagonal up. Also if you pay close attention there's a very cool bit of logic at play: if you swipe less than 4 times and stop for more than 2 seconds, it will reset the animation sequence. For example if you swipe left then right, stop for a second, it will restart at swiping left. I've tried to make it feel exactly like the original Zelda games :)

Another change I've made is instead of double tapping to do a spin attack, you hold the button down for 1 second. This way it plays (again) exactly like the traditional Zelda games.

Have a watch of my latest video to see all the changes:

This is awesome, thanks for you hard work in creating this - I was using the older version fine but now It doesn't seem to work. Pressing Y brings up the harp and doesn't swing the sword on v 1.08 - I'm using a Pro Controller (wired) so could this be causing this? I dont have the bluetooth adaptor for the Titan two to test out the joycons unfortunately :(
 

jigglet

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This is awesome, thanks for you hard work in creating this - I was using the older version fine but now It doesn't seem to work. Pressing Y brings up the harp and doesn't swing the sword on v 1.08 - I'm using a Pro Controller (wired) so could this be causing this? I dont have the bluetooth adaptor for the Titan two to test out the joycons unfortunately :(

It should work fine with the pro. Can you try holding a bomb when you press X. You will see how it works.
 

keefged4

Neo Member
Mar 12, 2021
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It should work fine with the pro. Can you try holding a bomb when you press X. You will see how it works.
Yeah, throwing a bomb works fine, what I'm trying to say is that pressing Y normally now does not swing the sword, it brings up the harp and starts playing it