• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

So I playing Horizon Dawn Zero and it's not aged well

Dec 12, 2018
1,184
1,321
420
In my opinion, whether a game ages well or not boils down entirely to its game and visual design rather than the year it was released.
I agree, but again I have to brink up Dusk.

Does that look nice to you visually? If you look at it with the same standards as other new games, then sure it does look terrible, but standing on its own without silly comparisons it really does have its charm and I think many people enjoy the throwback visuals a lot. It works. Not only does it recapture the mid to late 90's style of shooter games perfectly, I genuinely think the game got cool art direction. I mean, why should it only work for pixelated 2D games?
 

Sejan

Member
Sep 28, 2018
807
989
490
I agree, but again I have to brink up Dusk.

Does that look nice to you visually? If you look at it with the same standards as other new games, then sure it does look terrible, but standing on its own without silly comparisons it really does have its charm and I think many people enjoy the throwback visuals a lot. It works. Not only does it recapture the mid to late 90's style of shooter games perfectly, I genuinely think the game got cool art direction. I mean, why should it only work for pixelated 2D games?
It looks fine. It certainly doesn’t look bad, but it’s not exactly great. It does, however, accomplish what it sought out to accomplish. It will likely age better graphically than a game like cyberpunk in the long run, though.

Overall, games that aim for realism age most poorly, and games that have performance issues don’t age well either (at least on their original platform).

If I had to predict, I’d say that the games that will age best this generation will be stuff like Ori, shovel knight, hollow knight. As far as AAA, something like BotW will age far better than HZD (it already has).
 

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
4,456
8,838
530
Meanwhile there are ton modern throwbacks of shooters of the same time period. Take Dusk for example, which was universally praised, all while looking and playing like a game from 1998. So no, I doubt GoldenEye would get shit on today, especially if this hypothetical modern release had modern day FPS, graphics and production values etc.

I guess it depends on how you look at games. Aging is natural, I don't see as a bad thing. You age too and 20 year old you was probably objectively better too, doesn't mean that 80 year old you is a bunch of trash. And video games are obviously different and as a form of media and form of art are damned to be analyzed till the end, but come on, it almost sounds like you are an ass for enjoying Mario 64 (still one of the best 3D platformers) or old school Resident Evil/Silent Hill (still some of the best horror survival games), because L0ok At THE NEW gaMES.

Dusk looks to be an evolved version of Doom or Quake, two games that, imo, aged better than Goldeneye. It most likely does just enough new things to keep the experience worthwhile. It also didn't make a dent in the market, and was reviewed by a bunch of media who grew up playing Doom + Quake, and is most likely played by gamers who grew up playing Doom+Quake. Nastalgia is a hellofadrug. It's also an indie game that has very different expectations than the premier shooters of the early 1990's.

I'm not hating on old games. I just think people should appreciate how much better the industry is today compared to what it was 20, 30+ years ago. Nastalgia blocks progress, and we shouldn't let it.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
4,456
8,838
530
I'd have to disagree with this statement. The age of a game matters little to its overall quality. There were terrible games in the 70s-90s just as there are terrible games today. The problem, in my opinion, is how a game takes advantage of its platform. Games like Tetris and Super Mario Bros 3 are nearly perfect in their design in part because they were built around the strengths of the system for which they were initially designed. The problem of aging arises when games try to push a platform to do things that it does poorly. There were a great number of PS1-PS3 games that pushed hard for photorealistic graphics that were praised at their time, but look like garbage today. However, games like Wind Waker that was built with the strengths of the Gamecube in mind still looks great today--even if its a bit jaggy on occasion.

Golden Eye looks bad and runs terribly on the N64, but it was revolutionary for many people in its day. It, however, has aged poorly because of those problems. Paper Mario, on the other hand, still looks and plays great.

In my opinion, whether a game ages well or not boils down entirely to its game and visual design rather than the year it was released.

I appreciate your post here and agree with a lot of it.

But, imo, visual design doesn't really matter when it comes to how fast a game ages.

Games age based on their mechanics. Give Goldeneye a brilliant photorealistic texture pack and the game would still suck.

Games are getting more and more complex as we progress. Goldeneye's simplicity just can't hang with games today.

Btw, love Goldeneye. One of my all time favorite games. Hugely important. Still sucks ass in 2020.
 

Sejan

Member
Sep 28, 2018
807
989
490
I appreciate your post here and agree with a lot of it.

But, imo, visual design doesn't really matter when it comes to how fast a game ages.

Games age based on their mechanics. Give Goldeneye a brilliant photorealistic texture pack and the game would still suck.

Games are getting more and more complex as we progress. Goldeneye's simplicity just can't hang with games today.

Btw, love Goldeneye. One of my all time favorite games. Hugely important. Still sucks ass in 2020.
I’m just saying that golden eye wasn’t particularly great in 1997. It was just the first game of its kind for a lot of people so there wasn’t much point of comparison for many people. Anyone that had previously played a game like doom or quake would have seen that golden eye was clearly lacking even in its day.
 

VictorVectors

Member
Nov 24, 2020
180
158
230
Not everything has to be Assassins creed. Imagine if every open world game used that as a framework for traversal or style. It would suck. HZ is unique and focuses on range combat. I am betting some of you just don't like it as it requires strategizing combat over pure brute force or pew pew pew and done.
I mean, I hear what you're saying... but I have a hard job. I like to come home and unwind. If I have to force myself to engage with something that bores me, my work life is going to suffer.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
4,456
8,838
530
I’m just saying that golden eye wasn’t particularly great in 1997.



This is a gif from the movie Highlander. A story about legendary immortal warriors who have to fight eachother with swords (only decapitation kills a highlander), until there is only one remaining on the planet.

I'll see you Sejan sometime in the next 1,000 years.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Sejan

Trunim

Member
Sep 18, 2020
160
207
230
The main character is so flat and boring. Aloy or something? She was basically a Mary Sue who could do it all perfectly, nothing affected her and she was the same person in the end of the game as she was in the beginning. Lazy and incompetent writing.
 

Heartkiller

Gold Member
Dec 7, 2020
82
157
345
Couldn't disagree more about the combat. Aiming feels incredibly smooth, movement feels slick, stealth is fun, setting up traps is awesome, and the enemy design is very original. Melee definitely feels undercooked but everything else is great.
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,924
2,530
455
Blew me away back when it launched but just like far cry 4 it has aged a bit. Hopefully horizon 2 steps it up so it feels good again.
 
Feb 24, 2018
238
259
335
Yeah, I've got HZD on my PC and bought it for my daughter on OG PS4. I wouldn't think as highly of it if that was how I experienced it. I think the combat is as fast and fluid as any open world game out there. I have a lot of fun with that aspect of it. I got progressively more lethal and always had new tools to use on enemies to feel powerful. That triple arrow one shot feeling when you hit the sweet spot is great.
 
Dec 12, 2018
1,184
1,321
420
Dusk looks to be an evolved version of Doom or Quake, two games that, imo, aged better than Goldeneye. It most likely does just enough new things to keep the experience worthwhile. It also didn't make a dent in the market, and was reviewed by a bunch of media who grew up playing Doom + Quake, and is most likely played by gamers who grew up playing Doom+Quake. Nastalgia is a hellofadrug. It's also an indie game that has very different expectations than the premier shooters of the early 1990's.

I'm not hating on old games. I just think people should appreciate how much better the industry is today compared to what it was 20, 30+ years ago. Nastalgia blocks progress, and we shouldn't let it.
I looked up the reviewers and they seem to be usually working there for quite a bit. I don't care for reviews, to be honest, but I don't think Dusk is an example of a game getting praise because the guys reviewing it are blind to their nostalgia. They may grow up playing Quake and Doom, but is that important? Didn't see that much praise for most other throwback shooters. Or look at Doom 2016. That's also a retro throwback, just done in a AAA kinda way with modern tech.

I don't think nostalgia blocks progress. You definitely shouldn't block yourself from enjoying new games and new experiences, but there is still a lot of enjoyment in these oldies and quite frankly a lot to learn from them. Some of the best new age games are based on these classics. A lot of indie games obviously, but also AAA games. Which is probably the reason why I can't agree. You may or may not have the picture of a middle aged grumpy guy in front of you that is mad he can't have his childhood back and damns modern gaming. And it is true, that we often associate great times in our life with a certain piece of media. Thing is, I am in my 20s, grew up with a Gamecube/Wii, and never had a lot of nostalgia for games releasing before that era. I think a lot of people are the same, they go back to older games because they're curious about how their hobby started. And what happens? They figure out that a lot of games actually still do hold up and have a ton of design philosophies that still get used to this very day. I think it's really telling that one of the best-rated PS4/Xbox One game is a remake of two 20-year-old PS1 classics. I am talking about Pro Skater 1+2. And yes, they did improve it quite a bit, made it look all fancy, but at its core it still the very same game.

When I first played Resident Evil I also was like "wtf are these controls?" but I figured it out in about an hour and while I don't think its nearly as "horror" as Resident Evil 7 (although the visuals kinda fool you), the survival aspect is still compelling and the item management is really well done.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Men_in_Boxes

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
16,019
25,564
1,075
The main character is so flat and boring. Aloy or something? She was basically a Mary Sue who could do it all perfectly, nothing affected her and she was the same person in the end of the game as she was in the beginning. Lazy and incompetent writing.
My biggest issue was the way they made her strong and smart is by making everyone else stupid and incompetent as fuck, especially male characters.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Zannegan
Dec 12, 2018
1,184
1,321
420
Overall, games that aim for realism age most poorly, and games that have performance issues don’t age well either (at least on their original platform).
I think that is true for most cases, but there're also examples of games going for a more realistic style that actually hold up quite well. Art direction is indeed very important. I think I posted this already, but oh well...



Yes. 2003 Silent Hill 3 does look better than Mass Effect Andromedia in my book. Not in terms of tech. ME: A is definitely far more advanced in that aspect, but SH3 just does have so good art direction that it really doesn't matter in the end.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AutumnLeaves

Zannegan

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,479
997
505
I thought the combat was pretty good, and the enemies themselves were great. My big gripes with the game were how it handled traversal and the lack of meaningful interactivity (again, outside of the fantastic enemies).

The only way to climb anything was to follow the glowing ledges like an early Uncharted game. Auto-platforning is horrendously boring to me, and that one ledge that inevitably gives way does nothing to break the monotony. By the same token, you couldn't really interact with the environment in any meaningful way.

Give Aloy a rope/grappling hook that lets her climb and swing off of things (and that she has to throw to save herself from a collapsing ledge) for the next one, and it'll already be way more interesting to traverse. Add a few platforming segments that aren't all contextual button presses and it'll be even better. Mostly though, just bring more of those fantastic creature designs.

Again, the first one wasn't my favorite open-world game, but if the sequel is more than just more of the same, it could be pretty high up on the list.
 

Royal-Slime

Banned
Dec 14, 2020
188
184
185
Expensive graphics don't equal artistic beauty. Expensive graphics age in a manner of months or years. Artistic beauty never dies.

Ladies and gentlemen, what you see in this topic is the death of a game. A game that was never good to begin with.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Mister Wolf

Mithos

Member
Apr 26, 2006
6,121
462
1,520
Sweden
Why do you own 4 copies of TR underworld and 3 of Anniversary on 3 different platforms but no Shadow of the tomb raider?
I can understand double dipping to pc from PS3/4 as I have done this a lot for better graphics and for cross play. Also do it for switch the portable appeal (would love some TR switch ports),
but why wii? was there some sort of waggle controls to make her shake it?

You may be right about rise, i haven't played it yet (own them all). I frankly don't think they are comparable. TR is way more vertical and sectioned off, rather than open world expanse.
Tomb Raider fan so got the games on all platforms I owned/could.
No Shadow of The Tomb Raider because I/we knew the game was incomplete long before release (all the 7 months of dlc release bullshit), So was waiting for a "complete edition" to release but took so long for a physical edition and it was apparently limited or something because no shop around her seemed to sell or have the "definitive edition" at release or anymore.
Also Rise and Shadow on PC is a NO GO because Denuvo.

Wii versions of the games are not the same games, levels/courses are very differently designed then all the other versions.
 
Apr 11, 2016
1,285
1,406
510
I shudder when people say "A good game is a good game forever". Goldeneye is dog shit.

But a good game is good forever. Its just that a lot of these "console classics" were never good. Goldeneye was horseshit since the day it came out. It had some good ideas, on paper, but the implementation especially compared to pc games was horrid. Its just that consoles players didnt really have a frame of reference. Now, decades later, after console games eventually copied pc style games, of course we can all see Goldeneye for what it always was. It didnt transform into a bad game over the years - thats the game it always was.

In contrast, actual good games, Thief, Deus Ex 1, Half Life, Unreal Tournament and so on - the tech behind them has aged, sure. The gameplay and design of those is as strong today as it was when they came out. I can play Half Life today and its better than 99.99% of games out there. I can play Thief and its better than 100% of games out there. Outside of animation and stuff that has to do with tech aging, the gamedesign if ageless
 
Last edited:

v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 18, 2020
896
2,872
505
Some of yall have some unrealistically high standards if you consider Aloy to be ugly. She's at the very least above average.

Imagine the Girls they date, i mean i date top tier women and i doubt any of these guys even come close, calling Aloy ugly is just laugable.

ricky gervais laughing GIF
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Loope

ripeavocado

Member
Jul 26, 2020
527
747
325
It was never good to begin with.

Nice robots but that’s it, its design and story are quite boring
 
Last edited:

Terenty

Member
Nov 21, 2018
1,035
1,507
425
It's a game made by Sony western studio, it was never great, because Sony western studios pour all their money into graphics and couldn't care less about gameplay. Anything worth playing that came from Sony these past few years are games from Japanese studios. This is the harsh truth, stop pretending otherwise.

Now that Sony is done with japanese studios say goodbye to Sony output for good. And this has nothing to do with Microsoft or Xbox
 
  • Love
Reactions: Men_in_Boxes

Dodkrake

Member
Feb 28, 2020
1,406
6,138
535
well,as you said op,its your personal opinion ,i wholly disagree,and the whole "they move so fast" its pretty dumb,they are fucking machines,thats the whole point

This reads as "I don't like the combat because it's not easy".

It's a game made by Sony western studio, it was never great, because Sony western studios pour all their money into graphics and couldn't care less about gameplay. Anything worth playing that came from Sony these past few years are games from Japanese studios. This is the harsh truth, stop pretending otherwise.

Now that Sony is done with japanese studios say goodbye to Sony output for good. And this has nothing to do with Microsoft or Xbox

Hot take.

 
Last edited:

RoadHazard

Member
Dec 9, 2008
19,649
2,270
1,245
Gothenburg, Sweden
That has nothing to do with age, it was always like this. Amazing visuals and an interesting story (I finished the game only to see where that would head), but boring gameplay and a lifeless world that doesn't feel very interesting to explore.
 

Bankai

Member
Jul 14, 2015
959
1,517
555
"did not age well"

"Thin geometry"

"The enemies are incredibly agile, too much honestly"




How old are you, 12? I know all is relative, but come on.. this game is from 2017 and not much has changed since then in terms of open-world design and combat mechanics. And that's just facts. Considering the power of the hardware this game is amazing; especially from a technical perspective.

You don't like the game? Fine, but your arguments are weak at best.
 

The Skull

Member
Jul 8, 2018
491
612
360
Just finished it on PC and it was a struggle. The story was meh and quite predictable, although I did enjoy the combat aspects and different weapons the game provided. Environments looked great but felt barren. The game definitely felt like it had been plagued by open world tropes and I'm severely tired of "detective modes" in games, so not something that is unique to Horizon. Lack of memorable NPC's and Aloy being wooden as anything, it was a 6/10 game for me.
 

YoodlePro

Member
Jul 16, 2014
671
427
485
Exactly, your opinion and the rest of the Sony/HZD fans is worth the same as his.
Sorry mate, but it's not always like this.

If we both have an opinion about the colour of the sky, and I say a dark blue but you say light blue, that's one thing.

But what the situation actually is here is, I'm saying dark blue and you lot are saying green. So one opinion can be worth more than another, don't you think?
 

PooBone

Member
Jan 31, 2009
4,525
445
1,095
Personal opinion of course but I can't avoid to say I'm not particularly impressed by the game. I'm not saying it's bad but some flaws are literally annoying. Now I avoided the game at the launch because honestly doesn't appear particularly interesting but actually is available on PSN with a good price so I give a try.
Graphically is surely beautiful though not perfect as expected and CBR starts to show it's limitations in the thin geometry. Game is particularly aliased in such situations but fortunately thin geometry are a rarity in Horizon (not in Death Stranding and IQ is atrocious in the cities but it's OT). Another big issue it's the static grass, see the character walk through it as it was transparent is more annoying than I reminded. Unbelievable they never fixed it via patch (though on pc they did it but eh). Otherwise characters are surely phenomenal, very detailed and a league ahead to RDR2 or most of the others open world in the market. Sure it suffers of popup but shitty jaguar CPU so cant really blame Guerrilla for that.

Talking about the gameplay it's now I starts to notice some issue. My biggest problem is the combat system. It's incredibly simplistic and dull, doesn't give back the right feeling when you hit something and it's quite unsatisfying as a bit chaotic, the only way to avoid an enemies attack is roll and that's all. The enemies are incredibly agile, too much honestly, I understood they are machine but see a crocodile jump as a jaguar it's ridiculous. I mean, bigger enemies are more powerful sure, but at least they should be slower but nope even a cat in comparison seems a sloth.
Said that, I hope the sequel is more refined and it's not a bad game after all but honestly I expected a bit more hearing the general consensus.
I never finished the game, and would say that it felt "aged" at launch. Maybe aged isn't the right word, but there was a lack of environment interaction that ruined the open world for me, despite the fantastic art style and pretty neat story.
 

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,572
2,808
650
I agree with you OP. I never liked it. I got about 10hours in maybe and quit. I found the world really boring, traversal was a drag, combat was very repetitive.
Goddamn snoozefest.
 
  • Strength
Reactions: bonk64

Loope

Member
Dec 7, 2020
347
443
250
Sorry mate, but it's not always like this.

If we both have an opinion about the colour of the sky, and I say a dark blue but you say light blue, that's one thing.

But what the situation actually is here is, I'm saying dark blue and you lot are saying green. So one opinion can be worth more than another, don't you think?
Yeah but that is anos extreme case which is not what is happening here. If he said :the graphics are shit, then you kind of turn a side eye.
 

MoneySings

Member
Feb 27, 2017
168
128
375
I have tried three times to really get into HZD , however each time after 5-7 hours i get bored and just put it down. Its funny I really like open world games but something is not clicking with me.

But i can see why people like it , its just not for me.

Also Aloys Voice Actress was not very good, her voice seemed really monotone with no emotion what so ever. It looked great though so that's the main thing for a lot of gamers I suppose.

I completed the game on PS4 - bought it on PC and just can't get back into it. It feels so dull.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
13,582
26,218
1,420
- Not well balanced difficulty
- Boring open world
- too much filler in the primary story
- intro that is cliche as hell

This game is just ok, but it's from Sony, so it's great
Better just stick with GIFs mate.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
9,453
24,268
1,200
It was my GOTY of 2017 and I hated how BOTW got so much praise despite several shortcomings itself.

That said, looking back, there are definitely some flaws there that I noticed back at launch. The story dungeons were basically walk and watch holograms instead of active storytelling. They fixed this in the DLC but the main game still suffers from this. The combat was my favorite part about the game, but again the OP is right and it was mostly about rolling and attacking. I loved hitting weak points and trying to figure out which parts were weak to specific arrow types, but at the end of the day it was fairly simple. Enemy design was brilliant and kept things fresh until the end, but in 2020 I expect more from my GOTYs.

I think they fixed a lot of this stuff in the DLC so I have hope for the sequel. However, i would like more build variety. Not every game needs to be an RPG, but a game with dialogue boxes and choices is clearly trying to be one. You need to have that choice in combat too. It's an action adventure game at the moment and thats perfectly fine, but like most action adventure games, it starts to feel one dimensional by the time you are done with the game. I didnt feel compelled to replay like I do Mass Effect or Souls games.

They have already fixed my two biggest complaints with the DLC after focusing on better dungeons in story missions and better or rather more active storytelling during those missions. I really really liked Frozen Wilds and OP should give it a shot. But the main problem this game has is that it's a shooter, not a melee game and it's very hard to make RPG shooters without adding chest high covers everywhere. I think the game needs to dig deeper into its sci-fi setting and make defense a better proposition. Some shields that force you to be on defense will go a long way to making the combat deeper and more challenging. Again, this is where build variety comes into play.
 
Aug 20, 2020
94
116
220
I honestly think it's my GOTY for 2020. Neve played it until now.

I remember playing this as my 1st game on my new LG CX and i was SHOCKED on how amazing it looks especially with HDR. Made my jaw dropped when it showed the intro. Finished the game a few weeks ago and now I just bought a Lego set for it and so excited for the sequel.

Edit: I've actually bought the game in 2018 and never played it until a few weeks ago haha. I wanted to wait and play this game on true 4K with HDR. Glad i've waited, and recently bought most of the PS4 exclusives on sale throughout this month too. Heck, I also bought the Order 1886 in 2018 and never played it until this year too.
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2018
1,184
1,321
420
But a good game is good forever. Its just that a lot of these "console classics" were never good. Goldeneye was horseshit since the day it came out. It had some good ideas, on paper, but the implementation especially compared to pc games was horrid. Its just that consoles players didnt really have a frame of reference. Now, decades later, after console games eventually copied pc style games, of course we can all see Goldeneye for what it always was. It didnt transform into a bad game over the years - thats the game it always was.

In contrast, actual good games, Thief, Deus Ex 1, Half Life, Unreal Tournament and so on - the tech behind them has aged, sure. The gameplay and design of those is as strong today as it was when they came out. I can play Half Life today and its better than 99.99% of games out there. I can play Thief and its better than 100% of games out there. Outside of animation and stuff that has to do with tech aging, the gamedesign if ageless
Idk man, https://www.metacritic.com/game/nintendo-64/goldeneye-007
and keep in mind that it was released around the same time as Doom 64 which received rather mediocre reviews back then. A game that runs better, plays better, and even looks better (although GoldenEye is more technically advanced). Doom 64 is considered an underappreciated classic by many today

A lot of these older games only need a few things changed to make them good again. In the case of GoldenEye all it needs is better controls and better framerate, which can be done easily on a PC. The same applies to all Rare style shooters (Perfect Dark, TimeSplitters)
 
Last edited:

Beardsalt

Member
Oct 13, 2020
65
83
190
Wow, what a shit take!

If Zelda:BOTW hadn’t released the same year, it literally would of bagged every Game of the Year Award out there!
It was a fun game with really good graphics!

Threads like these are why GAF is going to shit, If you didnt like it then move on but when you make a stupid ass thread trying to devalue one of Sony‘s highest rated games, you tend to give off a stink!

Funniest thing about it is how all the known Xboxers and PC boys agree when they probably never even touched the game!
 

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
728
679
285
Does anything age well? Do you think a 15 year old kid would give a flying fuck about Xenogears, Golden Eye, Half-life or whatever?

Games don't have to "age well" anyway. They have to make a profit in the first 6 months.
 

JasonMCG

Member
Apr 10, 2007
11,717
121
1,460
www.mrgroff.com
Like I've said before, Horizon has great lore and combat, but its presentation is so bland as to negate both. Every quest is similar, every side quest is a chore, and every character looks (and acts) like a mannequin.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Zannegan