• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

So, is Metal Gear Solid over?

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
4,009
5,323
830
Metal Gear Solid is the brainchild of Hideo Kojima, but it is also the intellectual property of Konami. Hence, more than likely there may never be subsequent entries in the franchise or subsequent entries in the franchise won't benefit from any creative input from Hideo Kojima (such as Metal Gear Survive, which was terrible by most people's accounts).

What do my fellow NeoGAFites believe will be the ultimate fate of the franchise? Do you think that there will be future entries or not? If so, do you think that they'll be remakes or brand new stories? And do you think that Konami would make amends with Hideo Kojima in order to have him make a new entry for them?
 

TGO

Member
Sep 5, 2007
10,988
11,044
1,580
UK

Nah seriously, what made you think of this all of a sudden
 
Last edited:

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,559
2,968
590
Japan
It's over. It's over. It's over.

You know, with Kojima's reputation as a gaming auteur, it's really weird to find myself playing MGS3 and thinking to myself "man, this really savvy wise game designer made some pretty goofy, cheesy scenes."

The above isn't a dig at Kojima, it's just a testament to what dense, rich experiences some of those games were~
 

billyxci

Formerly 'billyjoexci'
Aug 3, 2014
13,815
8,713
970
"NeoGAFites"

lol thanks...

Anyway, I suspect there will be more games. Either Konami will put out more or if they don't plan to they might just sell it. Imagine if they did and Sony bought it and let Kojima go back to it. Doubt that'll happen but I don't think it's over (for better or worse)
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: CrysisFreak

KOMANI

KOMANI
Nov 5, 2013
3,772
1,484
845
New York
Metal Gear Solid is the brainchild of Hideo Kojima, but it is also the intellectual property of Konami. Hence, more than likely there may never be subsequent entries in the franchise or subsequent entries in the franchise won't benefit from any creative input from Hideo Kojima (such as Metal Gear Survive, which was terrible by most people's accounts).

What do my fellow NeoGAFites believe will be the ultimate fate of the franchise? Do you think that there will be future entries or not? If so, do you think that they'll be remakes or brand new stories? And do you think that Konami would make amends with Hideo Kojima in order to have him make a new entry for them?
By people who didn’t play it. And if you like a good conspiracy, there have been sources that maintain that Kojima was involved in the early development of Survive. It doesn’t help that Masahiro Ito’s character designs have had their dates blurred out by Konami.

And also, no. Metal Gear isn’t dead. Things that aren’t alive can’t be killed. IPs can be dormant. Unless you want a Metal Gear every year cause that’s been fantastic for the integrity of Ubisoft games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PPIMystaceus

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
4,009
5,323
830

Nah seriously, what made you think of this all of a sudden

I'm a huge fan of the franchise and think about it often. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is what got me into gaming. Its use of cinematic cut-scenes, simple yet novel gameplay mechanics such as knocking on walls to attract an enemy's attention or shooting an enemy's radio to make them unable to call backup, and its cool boss battles and meta-commentary on the world blew my mind.
 

Rikoi

Member
Jun 23, 2020
718
1,133
380
It was a stellar game series but, yes, it's over and there is nothing wrong with that. I am not sure how they could resurrect it without Kojima.
On to create new games and hopefully new game series.
 

Gp1

Member
Sep 17, 2019
836
1,168
445
Even the timeline (big boss/solid) is complete.

Of course, MGS 5 still a incomplete game, but there's nothing more to tell in that universe.

Ps. Unless... they anounce a prequel WW2 until MGS3 game with the Boss. I can get behind that
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheWanderingOgre

-Arcadia-

Banned
Aug 20, 2019
9,666
33,467
910
I'm surprised anyone is saying it isn't.

Short of some miraculous reunion, there's a ocean of bad blood between Konami and Kojima, and an entire epic story has been told from the 60s into an alternate reality 2010s, with two main characters completely wrapped up.

MG feels... complete, and while Konami may attempt an entry by themselves in the future, I doubt anyone will take it seriously without the creative genius that made it so special in the first place.

It's done, and it was wonderful.
 

Dr Kaneda

Member
Jun 15, 2019
176
239
240
I think at best Konami might test the waters with a remake/remaster of one of the older games (either MGS1 or MGS3) since they already have Kojima's framework on them. And if the team behind that makes a really success of imitating that formula of it then Konami might release a new entry.

Of course this is all subject on Konami being interested in making games again, but if that ever did happen then I think it's rational that they'd explore development of their biggest and best selling franchise.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
4,009
5,323
830
I think at best Konami might test the waters with a remake/remaster of one of the older games (either MGS1 or MGS3) since they already have Kojima's framework on them. And if the team behind that makes a really success of imitating that formula of it then Konami might release a new entry.

Of course this is all subject on Konami being interested in making games again, but if that ever did happen then I think it's rational that they'd explore development of their biggest and best selling franchise.

If they're not interested in making games anymore, then why not sell the IP to Sony or some other company?
 

Mista

Dragonslayer
Nov 21, 2014
20,427
35,365
1,420
Yes it is. No Kojima, no MGS. And I don’t think anybody wants any of MG: Survive.
 

toker818

Banned
Jan 7, 2018
110
85
235
Hideo Kojima killed the series and am not kidding his story writing is really bad, i wonder what happened to Fukushima that dude understood the characters true legend 🙌
 

Dr Kaneda

Member
Jun 15, 2019
176
239
240
If they're not interested in making games anymore, then why not sell the IP to Sony or some other company?
They probably would be, but it's a matter of Sony or another company offering them enough money to tempt them. And it that regard Sony and these other companies have probably looked at it and seen the cost of convincing Konami coupled with development costs probably aren't worth whatever return they'd get.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: BluRayHiDef
Jan 11, 2019
13,629
49,537
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
I'm a huge fan of the franchise and think about it often. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is what got me into gaming. Its use of cinematic cut-scenes, simple yet novel gameplay mechanics such as knocking on walls to attract an enemy's attention or shooting an enemy's radio to make them unable to call backup, and its cool boss battles and meta-commentary on the world blew my mind.
MGS2 is the best videogame I've ever played.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,332
70,266
1,405
USA
dunpachi.com
I think the Metal Gear loop is complete. Kojima did not leave the storyline unresolved.

Metal Gear introduced us to Solid Snake. We follow his journey as a soldier and a pawn in a larger global conflict. MGS3 introduces us to the main villain, Big Boss, and loops back to the cold war. We begin to see how Solid Snake's world was shaped by earlier events somehow leading up to Metal Gear. MGS4 concludes Solid Snake's adventure while Portable Ops and Peace Walker flesh out Big Boss's story a bit more as we inch toward MGS5. MGS5 fully explains how Big Boss is the monster we encounter in Metal Gear. The loop is closed.

Quick EDIT: we even got side-stories through Raiden in MGS2 and MGR. It's a multi-generational story, as we encounter the parents/children of characters throughout the plot.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: -Arcadia- and Gp1

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,159
2,452
1,005
United Kingdom
By people who didn’t play it. And if you like a good conspiracy, there have been sources that maintain that Kojima was involved in the early development of Survive. It doesn’t help that Masahiro Ito’s character designs have had their dates blurred out by Konami.

And also, no. Metal Gear isn’t dead. Things that aren’t alive can’t be killed. IPs can be dormant. Unless you want a Metal Gear every year cause that’s been fantastic for the integrity of Ubisoft games.
The tweet you linked to has a reply from Ito saying those designs aren't by him

Hideo Kojima killed the series and am not kidding his story writing is really bad, i wonder what happened to Fukushima that dude understood the characters true legend 🙌
I recently had some translated interview stuff from Fukushima shown to me by another poster which state that he mostly just did codec stuff, so he wasn't half as involved as people think.
 
Last edited:

JonnyMP3

Member
May 31, 2020
1,658
5,260
410
Yup.
Sony and Kojima though will bring out a totally separate and unrelated game called 'Plastic Cog Flimsy'
 

KOMANI

KOMANI
Nov 5, 2013
3,772
1,484
845
New York
The tweet you linked to has a reply from Ito saying those designs aren't by him


I recently had some translated interview stuff from Fukushima shown to me by another poster which state that he mostly just did codec stuff, so he wasn't half as involved as people think.
Yeah, they are by Ito, he’s saying “not by me” as in it wasn’t blurred out by him. What Ito did for Survive is very public and on his twitter account.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Sep 4, 2018
18,562
36,243
885
39
Yeah I don’t know why people want it to keep going on. I mean that’s fine if they want to do remakes but more story? What more could you possibly need?

At this point the mainline MGS game series covers a half century spanning the 1960s Cold War to the 21st century. MGSV completed the loop and connected the Big Boss timeline to the Solid Snake timeline. Now the Solid series forms a complete loop with the first two Metal Gears as well.

What more do u want? More Big Boss before Outer Heaven? We already have 4 games about it. A game about The Boss in WWII might be cool but that’s really it as far as places to take the story.

Maybe they could do a remake or reboot or something but it seems ill advised to try and add more to the Kojima canon lore.
 
Last edited:

Tekkie

Member
May 18, 2013
4,267
2,573
750
Metal Gear without Kojima isn't Metal Gear, so yes, even if they release another game with the name it's essentially dead.
 

KOMANI

KOMANI
Nov 5, 2013
3,772
1,484
845
New York
The tweet you linked to has a reply from Ito saying those designs aren't by him


I recently had some translated interview stuff from Fukushima shown to me by another poster which state that he mostly just did codec stuff, so he wasn't half as involved as people think.
Hideo Kojima killed the series and am not kidding his story writing is really bad, i wonder what happened to Fukushima that dude understood the characters true legend 🙌
Let’s talk about Tomokazu Fukushima. He isn’t the genius behind Metal Gear. He also didn’t just write optional codec calls. He most certainly did for MGS1.
  • Kojima on Fukushima: “After the plot was decided, I had Fukushima helped me out on writing the script for the voiceovers. The harsher terms in the script, such as 父殺し/chichikoroshi (patricide) and 怯懦と蛮勇/kyōda to ban’yū (bravery and cowardice) were his contributions.

For MGS2, he had a bigger part. Still not the genius behind Metal Gear.

How was the procedure of writing a script with Mr. Kojima?

“I actually took part in Metal Gear Solid 2 after Ghost Babel ended development, which I wrote the script for. By that point Mr. Kojima had already written a rough draft of the scriptment [Note:A term coined by James Cameron as a portmanteau of “script” and “treatment”. In Kojima’s case, a scriptment is an overly detailed game design document that covers all sorts of aspects such as plot outline, game features, level designs, specifications, ect. Every game directed by Kojima since MGS1 has had a scriptment written for it.]. From there on we started transferring files to a PC based on that scriptment. We would correct each other by writing amendments directly into the scriptment using differently colored texts and writing down the reason for the change. We made around 20 or so revisions.”

How was the work divided between you two?

“While there were some parts that were edited by the both of us, but if I’ll be bold to say it, all the real-time cutscenes were written primarily by Mr. Kojima, as well as all the mandatory CODEC calls. I was assigned to writing all the optional CODEC. We ended up creating around 2,500 files.”

Were there any scenes that were particularly troublesome?

“The CODEC call with the Colonel and Rosemary at the end. We only had around two months to finish the script for the Plant chapter. There were many important scenes in the Plant chapter ,especially during the latter half, so we didn’t have enough time to work on the CODEC calls. We even wrote the CODEC calls when the Colonel starts glitching out in a single draft, wondering whether our work was good. Perhaps there were lines of dialogue that didn’t exactly convince Mr. Kojima.” (laughs)

Rosemary’s lines were quite peculiar.

“We imagined her as something of an independent American office lady in her 20’s, so we tried using movies and such for reference… It was pretty difficult… (laughs)”

What were you careful of when incorporating the theme of Metal Gear Solid 2 into the screenplay?

“There isn’t just one theme, but we intended to have the problems that individuals and groups face in today’s information society manifest themselves in various ways. However, a script is just one part of the game during the planning phase. While the dialogue is expressed in a direct matter, we thought about effectively arranging the presence or absence of interactivity in certain parts while calculating its effects.”

Which parts were you particularly fixated on when writing the script?

“It could be the modernity and the excess. For example I believe Metal Gear Solid 2 has both, real excess and imagined excess. Real excess would be things that are quantifiable like long CODEC conversations or long cutscenes involving each characters. Imagined excess would be excess of information of things such as anything involving the Patriots. If you pay attention closely, you will know that Metal Gear Solid 2 has an extreme balance between the acquisition and lost of excessive information. Naturally we were aiming for such results.”

“The character have an excessive expression, as well as a narrative aspect where they all betray each other. We put it there while calculating the effects it has on the player, although an interpretation is needed there. It is something that is difficulty to portray, but we wanted to show the possibility that it could be achieved on a major title.”

Do you have any favorite lines in the parts that you in particular (Fukushima) worked on?

"I like Otacon’s proverbs. They provided a relief during tension… They’re so ridiculous, but fun… (laughs) Since he’s an independent character, I was free to write him like I want.”
Source: https://thearkhound.tumblr.com/post...omokazu-fukushimas-role-in-metal-gear-solid-1
He was with Kojima during setting research when a small team flew to NY. He was with Kojima and the assistant director during VA recording.
And there’s also a detailed document of when the members were involved in the Document of MGS2.
There’s also a detailed timeline for MGS1 in japanese. http://www.tentenpro.com/muni_shinobu/mg/kojimateam.html
He also wrote and Directed Snake Tales. Wrote Ghost Babel. Did revisions and editing for Acid 1 and wrote and constructed the story that director Shinta Nojiri came up with for Acid 2.
 

april6e

Member
May 19, 2020
62
70
190
Such a shame because they never got to finish the Big Boss story. We still need a Metal Gear 1 and 2 reboot (as Metal Gear Solid 6) which wraps up the entire storyline leading up to MGS1 and shows us how
Big Boss descends into becoming a villain and then is taken out by Solid Snake.
But a Kojima led effort will never happen now.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheWanderingOgre

GreatnessRD

Member
Jun 30, 2017
1,065
958
510
Baltimore, MD
Metal Gear Solid is done. And in my opinion, it left the building with MGS4. I don't even recognize MGSV as a Metal Gear game. And I know if another game were made, I'd most likely be angry. So I'm all for the 2 gun salute and calling it a day.
 

Hydroxy

Member
May 1, 2020
253
186
290
How about a first person shooter with a 5 hour campaign ala Call of Duty and Battle Royale mode? Could be a Solid game Geared towards the teenage crowd, sold in special limited edition Metal steelbook.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
Apr 15, 2007
12,471
5,985
1,680
London UK
Nah.

They will release a movie based on the original MGS in 2025

Then Bluepoint will remake the original game for PS5 but will incorporate some of the changes made in the film version (black Snake, trans Liquid Snake, lesbian Ocelot).

Then they'll port it to Switch on 4 cartridges.
 
Last edited:

gundalf

Member
Oct 31, 2012
623
102
620
I can only see remakes happening but looking on how Konami handles none smartphone games, even that is very unlikely.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
4,009
5,323
830
Nah.

They will release a movie based on the original MGS in 2025

Then Bluepoint will remake the original game for PS5 but will incorporate some of the changes made in the film version (black Snake, trans Liquid Snake, lesbian Ocelot).

Then they'll port it to Switch on 4 cartridges.

LMAO. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Sep 2, 2007
31,622
4,779
1,470
Isn't Konami kind of a shell of its former self staff and development wise?

Like wouldn't they have to invest millions into building the kind of studio that could handle a proper Metal Gear game?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi