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Staff So it begins, the great console battle of our time (moderation policy annex)

VysePSU

Gold Member
May 9, 2019
4,024
8,206
960
To the mods and EviLore

If you really want to avoid astroturfers,manchildren,12 year olds fanboys,and butthurt console warriors to stop shitposting you should bring back the email membership restrictions that applied to old GAF. I'm pretty sure we will see a shitload of new fake member accounts in the coming months who will try to keep afloat troll/joke threads and bury anything that provokes intelligent discussion.

If that doesn't happen then the only solution for those who can't tolerate stupidity is the ignore button.
EviLore already said they're not going back to the old account registration process.
 
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Slings and Arrows

and Ceramide R
Apr 19, 2019
9,194
15,139
780
Away with the fairies


Hey Gaffers (old and new),


It can't have escaped anyone's attention, that there have been some recent updates on console power, technology and approaches. Some threads have derailed into infighting pretty quickly but a larger number are consistently at the edge of being completely unreadable at the moment - which leads to more threads (for similar topics) being created as people can't follow/abandon existing ones. Most of the reports we are handling are falling into two main categories at the moment.


New members signing up who have obviously read something from the sidelines, got raged up and let their inner console monster run wild once approved
Members, who persistently derail threads around loose tangential points which means pages are lost (e.g. It doesn't matter about XsX because MS has no games, or Sony don't need faster streaming because their characters walk so slow)


What we're trying to do here is make GAF as inviting and pleasant as possible, while still retaining the 'edge' and biting observations you folks are know for, We've had a lot of people reach out, and we've read a lot of threads where people are getting frustrated at this behaviour. When we're reading through threads ourselves we'll have to stop and examine histories and other comments, or wait until reports come in and assess the situation there. All of this takes time as we want to be as fair as we can to all members of the forum. Sometimes a difficult decision will take time and need a mod consensus before we take actions. That's just our general policy with giving people the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.


Moving forward
So what does this mean? It means going forward that threads that have a lot of effort put into them, or are to discuss specific technologies or have a more theoretical question/topic will have a little more protection. For these select topics we're going to take a different approach. We do use reply bans sparingly and bans even more sparingly, however there does seem to be bit too much 'noise' in some of the threads and derailing. In these select topics, moderation policy will be a bit more focused on removing members who are not on topic and instead derailing or trying to cause a fight.


How do I know which threads will be held to a higher standard?
We may create a tag but for the time being we want to be as minimally intrusive as possible. So for now, we will simply stick an asterisk in the thread title so it is clearly denoted on the main topic page. This is just a simple flag that lets you know the topic will be getting moderated more 'actively'. And if you go there with the intent of causing drama you will find yourself quickly removed from participation (in that thread alone).


I still want to shitpost!
God bless you folks. We love the memes and some of the stuff you come out with. Some of it is genuinely funny. New console cycles will always have a level of one liners, shitposting and meme drops. The rest of the board remains the same. While things are wild, we want to give those other threads with real insight a chance to get some momentum and be a little more free of the side drama. We want to be definite and transparent on the policy side so feel a clear guideline will benefit everyone rather than risk perceived inconsistency.


As always feel free to drop any comments or feedback in here. We might not tag every reply but we do read the posts and your input and it does influence certain decisions we make for th good of the board and everyone using it. Even if you just want to drop some suggestions or a general point please do so below.

All gravy.

It would be easier to have one mega shit-posting thread where members can get stuff off of their chest, rather than shitting up good threads?
 
Oct 26, 2018
16,269
22,510
795
All gravy.

It would be easier to have one mega shit-posting thread where members can get stuff off of their chest, rather than shitting up good threads?
One was made, but it never caught on.
 

CatLady

Member
Jun 12, 2018
3,918
12,533
670
One was made, but it never caught on.

Apparently console warz aren't any fun when people are encouraged to do it.
 

Lionel Richie

Member
Jun 22, 2014
13,356
13,612
930
Something's gotta give with the recent threads based on random Tweets and I don't think necessarily not doing them is the solution. People get too aggravated with this for whatever reason, I think we collectively can do better in embracing the chaos and not taking things so seriously. Who knows, we might even make some cherished memories out of the fuckery (dude who said NBA 2K was bigger than Mario, I still love you bro <3 ) even if our initial reaction is to get mad.
 

thelastword

Member
Apr 7, 2006
11,640
11,547
1,850
I think there are a couple of issues that needs addressing.....

One of the chief issues I see are persons who leave a valid OT for a game on their preferred platform and go waging war in technical threads either against the OP or other posters who are just highlighting stats and discussing the technicals. No body is attacking your console because the stats reveals that it may not have the best framerate or that there is some disparity in the visuals. Stick to your OT and have fun with your friends....instead of coming to other threads to whine....

Some people bring down entire threads by thread whining, OP whining, persecution complex posts, drivebys and whining based on who posts a thread and then they pretend they are the ones who cant have proper discussion.....Some posters need to grow up and act like adults instead stretching a crusade for posters and muddying every thread with their pessimism and personal attacks.

Some people should stop posting as fact, what they know not to be true, like 9.2TF.....Twitter spamming from anybody who says anything that supports their position, especially when that person has never developed a game, is familiar with programming games or is privy to both systems and can contrast......


I think these are the main issues, people who just come to thread whine, ask for bans for posters in threads should be dealt with, there are avenues for that, let the mods do their jobs and use the forum rules, not ban this guy for me please because I don't like him... Some people are now treating forums like politics, it's way too personal, so I can only imagine what they wage in the background and how they conspire in the background.......If there is so much hate and vitriol in words to posters in a forum chat, it must be worst for said persons in their personal lives, that I get, if you want to silence people so much and are so invested.....I'm not sure how said persons are conforming to such a wide world with many persons beliefs and ideologies, must be hard.....Also people are always the rowdiest online and are all 600 lb benchers who scare kids with their physique, so it's a bad boy play I see heavily here, when we are only here to discuss the intricacies of games....

I think these are the things that causes the most cross talk, people just can't argue civilly and keep the conversation insult free...People get upset and follow you everywhere just because you disagreed with them since 2012.....Just too many immature shells, who cant live and let live....
 
Oct 26, 2018
16,269
22,510
795
I think there are a couple of issues that needs addressing.....

One of the chief issues I see are persons who leave a valid OT for a game on their preferred platform and go waging war in technical threads either against the OP or other posters who are just highlighting stats and discussing the technicals. No body is attacking your console because the stats reveals that it may not have the best framerate or that there is some disparity in the visuals. Stick to your OT and have fun with your friends....instead of coming to other threads to whine....

Some people bring down entire threads by thread whining, OP whining, persecution complex posts, drivebys and whining based on who posts a thread and then they pretend they are the ones who cant have proper discussion.....Some posters need to grow up and act like adults instead stretching a crusade for posters and muddying every thread with their pessimism and personal attacks.

Some people should stop posting as fact, what they know not to be true, like 9.2TF.....Twitter spamming from anybody who says anything that supports their position, especially when that person has never developed a game, is familiar with programming games or is privy to both systems and can contrast......


I think these are the main issues, people who just come to thread whine, ask for bans for posters in threads should be dealt with, there are avenues for that, let the mods do their jobs and use the forum rules, not ban this guy for me please because I don't like him... Some people are now treating forums like politics, it's way too personal, so I can only imagine what they wage in the background and how they conspire in the background.......If there is so much hate and vitriol in words to posters in a forum chat, it must be worst for said persons in their personal lives, that I get, if you want to silence people so much and are so invested.....I'm not sure how said persons are conforming to such a wide world with many persons beliefs and ideologies, must be hard.....Also people are always the rowdiest online and are all 600 lb benchers who scare kids with their physique, so it's a bad boy play I see heavily here, when we are only here to discuss the intricacies of games....

I think these are the things that causes the most cross talk, people just can't argue civilly and keep the conversation insult free...People get upset and follow you everywhere just because you disagreed with them since 2012.....Just too many immature shells, who cant live and let live....
Good point. Maybe you should listen to it yourself.

Don't play dumb, you know what you're doing in the past in some MS threads derailing it into sales wars, list wars and somehow bringing up Gamepass.

Only reason why you haven't lately is because you've been on damage control for 2 weeks since Cerny's show.

Now you know what it feels like to have technical threads or PS5 threads getting bombed with jokes and 9.2tf.

And to be fair, this has only been going on for 2 weeks, unlike the kind of stuff gamers like you bring up against MS for years.
 
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Apr 30, 2018
482
481
335
The Dreamcast 2 shits on all other gaming systems.

I will buy a Ps5 and Xbox Series X, hammer them down, record it, put it on Youtube and mail the pieces to Sony and MS as proof of Sega's superiority.

Sega, Sega–Oota-ku, Tokyo

Keikyu Haneda Airport line, Ohtorii station

Game creation is our sanctuary in life,
Yet victory is still far away

We stumble and get depressed, but we move on

Sega, Sega–oh, move on to tomorrow
 

tflopsmatter

Banned
Feb 27, 2020
241
521
345
Bill O Rights,

The answer is simple. Have one side of NeoGaf that's totally communist with strict guidelines for speech and another side that allows free speech within the rules of what's legal (no threats, mentions of violence, etc). The simple truth is that due to the dominant console maker abandoning the idea of generational leaps and putting out a weaker console, there's going to be a lot of pain and anger. People are going to make bold truthful statements that offend people. Some statements might even infuriate people. But there's a simple solution on the "free speech" side of NeoGaf - the ignore button. I don't give a hoot, for example, if a million people "ignore" me. We all need to learn that if someone else is making statements we totally disagree with that it's still their right to speak their minds and as often as they desire. Did the 1st amendment come with a rule about how many times you could give your opinion? No. Instead, if people don't like you they don't have to listen - they can either be an ADULT and "ignore" the post in their mind or use the ignore button which isn't available in real life. Actually, an online forum like this one is even better for those who can't tolerate bold loudmouths because such a button is around to be used. If people on the "free speech" side of NeoGaf still can't tolerate other users with bold, arrogant, and vastly different opinions, then it's THEIR FAULT for being unable to control their emotions. They shouldn't go around "reporting" other people (unless these people are resorting to personal attacks) but instead work on gaining the mental composure to simply not pay attention to those who are making posts that infuriate them OR just use the ignore button.

For example, I'm outraged at Sony. I think that they have screwed the entire gaming community by abandoning the concept of generational leaps. Moreover, I believed whole heartedly that they would release a true next gen system with at least seven times the TF of the ordinary PS4. Since they didn't, I'm going to be vocal about how they have abandoned the central tenant that governed previous consoles. Many people aren't going to like me. But I'm not going to shut my mouth. I will mention at every opportunity how the SSD can't make up for the missing teraflops, how the system isn't really 10.2TF (it's really lower but can go into boost mode), etc. If people don't like this, I urge everyone to start ignoring me RIGHT NOW. Because I ain't going no where. And if you or any of the other moderators ban me, I'll be happy to leave and forget this place.

I was banned immediately after posting the above but I still believe 100% in what I wrote. If the moderators don't like it, too freaking bad. I don't give a hoot about them.
 

Zannegan

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,448
971
505
All gravy.

It would be easier to have one mega shit-posting thread where members can get stuff off of their chest, rather than shitting up good threads?
It would be nice if the crazy would vent there and leave the rest of the forum free. Unfortunately, many of craziest have no idea they are shitposting. They think what they're writing is 100% reasonable and factual, and anyone who doesn't see the obvious is just a blind fanboy. You get a few who know they're being a little over the top, but even they rationalize it as if they're bringing some kind of a balance to the conversation.

Thankfully, it's just a small fraction of the Neogaf population. I just wish they didn't post so much. It's always sad when you see someone enter a busy thread, and then every third reply is their avatar.

EDIT:
I was banned immediately after posting the above but I still believe 100% in what I wrote. If the moderators don't like it, too freaking bad. I don't give a hoot about them.
Case in point.
 
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Shin

Banned
Feb 4, 2013
5,865
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I was banned immediately after posting the above but I still believe 100% in what I wrote. If the moderators don't like it, too freaking bad. I don't give a hoot about them.
You might as well quit this site to be honest, mods don't even show interest in the task they signed up for and when they do it's hit and run without proper research.
You ask someone not to joke in a Sony relief fund thread and you get called the biggest fanboy, you ask someone not to sling shit in an Xbox thread and you're a console warrior.
It's rather interesting to be called names by someone that hides behind a anonymous name and seldom around to even remotely have a clue what goes on this website, reading a log now and then ain't it.

Point being, shit rolls from the top to bottom, you guys set those examples and people walk the lines you laid out now you're asking them to take a step back when the moderating team is no different.
Hell with me posting PlayStation deals in the Cheap Arse Gaffer thread or Xbox ones or Nintendo news, for some reason it bothers me when a teeth-less dog tries to bark - whoever the fuck it might be.

Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights EviLore EviLore and whatever the 3rd one is called, contracting yourself as can seen below and interestingly enough it's never the person you report that gets the warning, but you for doing so.
You want change then start with yourself and the rest just might follow your example.


 

Somnium

Member
Apr 1, 2016
5,619
12,116
790
art-of-vlad.com
I don't think this is a great idea.

During this time of forced isolation, everyone struggles to keep fit. Don't deny the fanboys their stage. They need to indulge in their mental gymnastics now more than ever.
I'd much rather not have half the gaming side swamped by console fanboy shitposting. It can be fun to some degree, but left unchecked it tends to derail the discourse.
If it weren't for the ignore thread function, I'd be frustrated with the constant influx of PS5 vs XBSX dick measuring threads.
 
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Lanrutcon

Member
Feb 19, 2014
10,568
5,179
770
Irrelevant
I'd much rather not have half the gaming side swamped by console fanboy shitposting. It can be fun to some degree, but left unchecked it tends to derail the discourse.
If it weren't for the ignore thread function, I'd be frustrated with the constant influx of PS5 vs XBSX dick measuring threads.

I was joking. Keep fit -> need excercise -> gymnastics...

It wasn't that bad of a joke!
 
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Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
Staff Member
Dec 5, 2017
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T tflopsmatter (banned overnight it seems), you were not banned for that post and I'm not sure why you would misrepresent the case in this way. So in order to clarify

You were reply banned from the nextGen thread for console warring. You pleaded to be let back in (like a grounded child) and you'd behave like an adult. You didn't. Subsequent to this, you earned an additional two warnings for console warring. In addition to this, you also had three reply bans for the same behaviour and were advised to tone it back. Eventually you were given a short ban because despite all intentions you still waded into threads with antagonistic low effort troll posts like these:


Despite what you might like to post and portray, you were not banned because we thought you were a revolutionary on the cusp of leading a rebellion over the hills of Neogaf. It would be fair to say any army you assembled would only advance to get out of earshot of your diatribe. It's because you were not learning or adapting. And the tired reverse psychology of "I'm only speaking my mind and I'm being punished unfairly" may work on ninth graders but here at Neogaf we are grown ups sir.


Shin Shin as you are still an active poster we really don't want to go through the above with you. To answer your query there will be inconsistencies because we don't make knee jerk reactions. So a mod may give you a reply ban and still see 4/5 subsequent posts that are still in the same vain. This doesn't mean we're 'ignoring them' but we're not waiting there ready to pounce with a 'gotcha!' just to take you out. We understand there's a little bit of a journey to go on, but there reaches a point where a nudge has to become a shove. There will be a grace period where adjustment will need to take place and we may let those 4/5 posts 'slide'. You forget that we see and handle all reports. So some statistics for you personally. Just on the last two pages of reports, there are sixteen logged against posts you've made. In this period you've had 3 warnings, 2 reply bans and no site bans with the majority rejected. I think the team have been more than fair with you.

Especially when in two of the most recent cases, you derailed an entire thread with a personal feud and in another, your blind rage made you miss two obvious joke and you went straight into personal insult mode. In order to be fair, mods (as explained before) often read through the last 3/4 pages of the thread to check for baiting, disingenuous reporting etc. There is also a limit in the reply ban notification of 100 characters so the messages may appear curt and biting to get the point across. These messages will usually be reflective of the quality and tediousness of the user in question. Especially when extending the benefit of the doubt is repaid in such poor behaviour.

As you've linked the reply an action, we will clarify as well

1. [Can't link] Was deleted because in a post about XsX you decided to make your second post about denigrating another console (i.e. console warring)
2. [Link] This wasn't you being fair or middle of the road, it was because the MS thread didn't get as much traction with insults to other users. Again, some weird pro Microsoft protection thing (derailing into console wars). If your intentions were indeed as virtuous as you proclam, where is your post congratulating Sony for their actions? Is it lost amongst the attempts to.........defend an alterntive brand?

All in all Shin, your problem is one of conduct and anger not of content. But it becomes a problem when those things take over your posts. You also have a problem with perception. Some threads will have light hearted banter in. That was explained in the notification you got I believe. Maybe you should reflect on people asking you to chill out. We don't treat you like you're stupid so we'd suggest a bit more honesty when evaluating your own contribution. We are being more stern and less forgiving with these type of posts. If you're a poster who regularly makes these types of posts, you may feel the sting more than others.

Anything further just move to the meta please.
 
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Flintty

Member
Apr 24, 2014
4,585
3,546
950
UK
T tflopsmatter (banned overnight it seems), you were not banned for that post and I'm not sure why you would misrepresent the case in this way. So in order to clarify

You were reply banned from the nextGen thread for console warring. You pleaded to be let back in (like a grounded child) and you'd behave like an adult. You didn't. Subsequent to this, you earned an additional two warnings for console warring. In addition to this, you also had three reply bans for the same behaviour and were advised to tone it back. Eventually you were given a short ban because despite all intentions you still waded into threads with antagonistic low effort troll posts like these:


Despite what you might like to post and portray, you were not banned because we thought you were a revolutionary on the cusp of leading a rebellion over the hills of Neogaf. It would be fair to say any army you assembled would only advance to get out of earshot of your diatribe. It's because you were not learning or adapting. And the tired reverse psychology of "I'm only speaking my mind and I'm being punished unfairly" may work on ninth graders but here at Neogaf we are grown ups sir.


Shin Shin as you are still an active poster we really don't want to go through the above with you. To answer your query there will be inconsistencies because we don't make knee jerk reactions. So a mod may give you a reply ban and still see 4/5 subsequent posts that are still in the same vain. This doesn't mean we're 'ignoring them' but we're not waiting there ready to pounce with a 'gotcha!' just to take you out. We understand there's a little bit of a journey to go on, but there reaches a point where a nudge has to become a shove. There will be a grace period where adjustment will need to take place and we may let those 4/5 posts 'slide'. You forget that we see and handle all reports. So some statistics for you personally. Just on the last two pages of reports, there are sixteen logged against posts you've made. In this period you've had 3 warnings, 2 reply bans and no site bans with the majority rejected. I think the team have been more than fair with you.

Especially when in two of the most recent cases, you derailed an entire thread with a personal feud and in another, your blind rage made you miss two obvious joke and you went straight into personal insult mode. In order to be fair, mods (as explained before) often read through the last 3/4 pages of the thread to check for baiting, disingenuous reporting etc. There is also a limit in the reply ban notification of 100 characters so the messages may appear curt and biting to get the point across. These messages will usually be reflective of the quality and tediousness of the user in question. Especially when extending the benefit of the doubt is repaid in such poor behaviour.

As you've linked the reply an action, we will clarify as well

1. [Can't link] Was deleted because in a post about XsX you decided to make your second post about denigrating another console (i.e. console warring)
2. [Link] This wasn't you being fair or middle of the road, it was because the MS thread didn't get as much traction with insults to other users. Again, some weird pro Microsoft protection thing (derailing into console wars). If your intentions were indeed as virtuous as you proclam, where is your post congratulating Sony for their actions? Is it lost amongst the attempts to.........defend an alterntive brand?

All in all Shin, your problem is one of conduct and anger not of content. But it becomes a problem when those things take over your posts. You also have a problem with perception. Some threads will have light hearted banter in. That was explained in the notification you got I believe. Maybe you should reflect on people asking you to chill out. We don't treat you like you're stupid so we'd suggest a bit more honesty when evaluating your own contribution. We are being more stern and less forgiving with these type of posts. If you're a poster who regularly makes these types of posts, you may feel the sting more than others.

Anything further just move to the meta please.
Living up to that tag 👍🏻