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Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles: Lock-On Power!

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Nov 2, 2007
70,821
1
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I never knew this.....considering Spinball was still enjoyable on the Genesis, that wasn't the dumbest move on Sega's part :).

Would you mind me posting this in the OP? More information is always a good thing to know :D!

Go ahead!
 

Vex_

Banned
Jan 29, 2015
5,840
0
0
I have to post in this thread -- out of respect for my childhood hero. Wonderful, WONDERFUL platformer.

S3k was the undisputed best platformed in the world in its day. Great thread, OP :')
 

Bboy AJ

My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Dec 17, 2004
14,991
885
1,805
Probably one of my favorite childhood games. I played through it a ton.

The carnival barrel is a classic example of poor game design.
 

Mac the KNife

Member
Jan 26, 2005
8,843
1
0


But that sprite...
 

IrishNinja

Member
May 12, 2009
40,052
9
1,150
Sonic 3/K is possibly my GOAT platformer, just so much greatness there...you get replayabliity from Sonic 2 and a ton of hidden special stages from 1! man, now i wanna replay em both this year.

GOAT logo

+1
Don't give up on the sun. Don't make the sun laugh at you.
 

Aaron Strife

Banned
Oct 10, 2006
26,804
3
0
Sonic & Knuckles is my favorite game cartridge of all time. Anyone who's not familiar with the game (at least in Genesis cartridge form) just wonders what the hell it is.



But that sprite...
I like 3's better personally. 2's always looked really plain to me. 1/CD's is the best. Interesting that even though they made his hand way bigger in the stationary sprite, they seemed to just copy his arms from the S2 sprite while he's walking.
 
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still without a doubt the best Sonic game in my book and it's one of my favorite games ever. It has some levels that drag a bit and some poor design bits (the barrel...) but otherwise it's essentially the Mario 3 of the Sonic series.

The division of the two games has less to do with S3&K being too big for one game and more to do with S3 absolutely positively having to ship on a certain date.

Regular old Sonic 3 is a fairly by the book sequel (still my favorite game in the series though) and the real treat of the lock on cart is Knuckles, especially in Sonic 2.

Yep. It's also worth noting that the McDonald's Sonic 3 Happy Meal campaign was also responsible for Sonic 3 having to ship early. When Sega and McDonald's inked the deal, the Happy Meal campaign was slated for a late 1993/early 1994 period (presumably under the assumption that the game would be released around the same time). As the game was experiencing delays that threatened to affect the deal, Sonic 3 wound up being split in two in order to make the date. (This is mentioned in both the Pix'n Love History of Sonic book and the Console Wars book that were released a few years ago, IGN has an article about the latter that includes this bit).

And I'd say that bit Sonic 3&K in the butt a big way unfortunately. Neither S3 or S&K sold as well as the first two titles (though neither game being bundled with the Sega Genesis like the first two I think was to blame for that), and when viewed as individual titles (as you noted), they act more like mission pack sequels to Sonic 2 that don't push the envelope in features and modes on their own terms. I'd say that's partially the reason why the general public only recognize the first two games nowadays.

I'm sure if Sonic 3&K made it's planned release as one big Sonic 3 and was bundled with the Sega Genesis, it would had easily blown Sonic 2 out the water, and would had sold as well as the first two games.

After playing Sonic 1 thought the 3D Classics version on my 2DS, would be very open to getting a Sonic 3&K 3D :D!

Could see that being part of the next wave of 3D Classics honestly :).

After the 3D re-release of Sonic 2 (which brought an end to the second slew of 3D re-releases), Sega/M2 said that they currently have no plans of making another wave of 3D Classics ports, though they said they may continue if sales are decent. Maybe if the 3D Classics retail compilation sells well, they will change their minds.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Mar 7, 2013
14,980
2
0
In space
Sonic 3 & Knuckles is my favorite of the mega drive Sonic games, plus it's the only Sonic game were I managed to get all the Chaos Emerald, plus the Super Emerald without resorting to inputting a cheat code like I did with Sonic 2.

Plus Sonic Team learnt from Sonic 2 and made it that you needed to press the jump button twice to make Sonic go Super, though he won't go super if you have a shield.


I don't know if it's because I played the game as adult but I never had that problem as I quickly figured it out.



But that sprite...

That image there just highlight how everyone moaning about modern Sonic design just pointless, since he got redesigned for Sonic 3.

Though Sonic looks more American in Sonic 3 whereas in Sonic 1, 2 and CD he looked more Japanese.
 

Betty

Banned
May 31, 2013
10,889
29
490
I don't know if it's because I played the game as adult but I never had that problem as I quickly figured it out.

Well as a kid that part stumped everyone.

A friend and I would hop up and down as Sonic and Tails for ages and ages and rarely did we ever make it through, we had no idea we were doing it wrong, such a stupid obstacle.
 

IronicSonic

Member
Mar 27, 2014
2,665
5
0
Chile
www.17bits.cl
Control + F "Saturn" "Sonic Jam"

Damn gaf, best version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles

I love this two little gems. My favorite game in the series. I thinks this is the game when Yasuhara was in his prime. Love the exploration, love the speed, love the bonus stage and bosses.

Music is also, perfect.

10/10

Edit: interesting fact that Naka want a 3D Sonic. How is that even posible in a 94's genesis
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
Jul 7, 2004
14,838
0
0
Love this game to death. I own(ed) Sonic 3 and I remember I frequently went to Blockbuster to try to rent S&K but it was always fucking rented :mad:

In addition to the music listed in the OP, also love the Special Stage music.

Also, fuck Carnival Night.
 

mapet318

Banned
Jan 26, 2015
117
0
210
Absolutely my favorite Sonic game. Spending hours messing around with the level select and debug features was a blast.

Can we expect a Knuckles Chaotix thread? I feel like that game is under-appreciated.
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,803
2
755
Greatest sonic game ever, pinnacle of the series. Some incredible level design and really fun power ups. Used to love getting the lightning/flame abilities.

Getting all the chaos emeralds AND super emeralds was pretty hard, from memory the number of giant rings took a nosedive in the S&K levels. Fun to do though, adreline levels were super high in some of those later special stages as I struggled to not make a mistake.

Sky Sanctuary/Death Egg 2/Doomsday were a brilliant way to finish the game.

It's been a bitter disappointment that sega never made a sonic game remotely as good again.
 

Qasiel

Member
Apr 9, 2010
3,456
0
670
S3&K, to me, is the epitome of the Sonic series with nothing else close to touching it.

A perfect mix of great level design, music, physics, enemies I replay this myself at least once a year (still have my cartridges too!).
 

Lord British

Member
Feb 15, 2011
5,761
2
865
Probably the game I've played through the highest number of times. Still finding new things. New secrets.

Near-perfect game as far as I'm concerned. It'd be better without Marble Garden, but there we are. I think Marble Garden is the only zone in S3k wherein the acts don't appreciably change in aesthetic.
 

Piers

Member
Jun 26, 2012
6,663
0
0
It kinda bugs me that they are inconsistent with the revamped sprite as well, since some of the animation frames (like the spiral rotation) are still based on the Sonic 2 sprite when you look closer.

Wasn't Sonic 3 originally using Sonic 2's sprite, actually?
 

Maedhros

Member
Apr 16, 2010
6,680
0
0
My favorite Genesis game and one of my favorite games overall. I freaking love Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and it remains as the best Sonic game even to this day.

So many great levels, great music, fantastic gameplay, awesome logo, cool Knuckles.

Love it.

I think that after this game, the one I like the most is Generations.
 

GooeyHeat

Member
Aug 2, 2010
2,090
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Getting all the chaos emeralds AND super emeralds was pretty hard, from memory the number of giant rings took a nosedive in the S&K levels.
It was weird, Mushroom Hill probably had the most giant rings of any zone in the double game, but then there were hardly any in Flying Battery, Sandopolis, and Lava Reef.

I feel that the Sonic & Knuckles half of the game is stronger overall, though it helps that I seem to be one of the only people who actually likes Sandopolis. The only thing I don't like about it is the Act 1 boss, since there's no good way to speed it up after the relatively long level before it. I also can't /stand/ Carnival Night, between the eye-searing neon colors, the repetitive music, the obnoxious water sections, and repressed barrel trauma.

It's worth noting that the Sonic & Knuckles Collection, a PC release of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, had a couple of songs completely replaced, possibly due to the limitations of MIDI. That was actually the first version I ever played, so when I heard Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base in the Genesis version, I was kinda thrown. The "Sonic 3 Complete" rom hack actually allows you to switch to Genesis recreations of these songs:
Carnival Night Act 1
Carnival Night Act 2
Ice Cap Act 1
Ice Cap Act 2
Launch Base Act 1
Launch Base Act 2
Carnival Night is the only unequivocal improvement here, but I always found Genesis Ice Cap's songs to feel repetitive, so those are nice to me, too. Not sure what happened with Launch Base, though.
 

lazygecko

Member
Apr 8, 2014
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It's worth noting that the Sonic & Knuckles Collection, a PC release of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, had a couple of songs completely replaced, possibly due to the limitations of MIDI.

I'm almost completely positive that this rather had to do with rights issues because of the whole Michael Jackson debacle.
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
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755
It was weird, Mushroom Hill probably had the most giant rings of any zone in the double game, but then there were hardly any in Flying Battery, Sandopolis, and Lava Reef.

Yeah. Used to spend ages looking through each zone when I was younger, but they just didn't exist lol

I feel that the Sonic & Knuckles half of the game is stronger overall, though it helps that I seem to be one of the only people who actually likes Sandopolis. The only thing I don't like about it is the Act 1 boss, since there's no good way to speed it up after the relatively long level before it. I also can't /stand/ Carnival Night, between the eye-searing neon colors, the repetitive music, the obnoxious water sections, and repressed barrel trauma.

Sandopolis act 2 kinda feels like it wandered out of another game and got lost. Still fun though. Ghosts growing gave me a feeling akin to being in water for too long

Can we all agree Ice Cap Zone is GOAT music?

For S3&K, sure. Star Light Zone and Hill Top Zone are better for the franchise overall imo
 

Piccoro

Member
Aug 30, 2013
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This game is playable on Wii, DS (via Sonic Classics Collection), PS3/360, PS2/GC/Xbox, PC and now Xbox One via BC with the 360 version.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles isn't available on PS3, I'm afraid.

Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are available as separated games in this compilation:


But the lock-on feature is not present here, unfortunately.
And I'm not sure about the Wii VC situation.
 

bman94

Member
May 23, 2015
3,604
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485

Yo, fuck this. Shit made me mad as a kid.

Maybe its a secret anniversary project, which is why we heard nothing about it ;). I seriously expect a Classic Collection for PS4/Wii U/NX/Xbox One/PC releasing on Sonic's Birthday with Sonic 1, 2, CD, and 3&K.

I want this but throw in Knuckles Chaotix. Underrated game in my opinion and that game has never been re-released. Also while their at it, release a HD port of Sonic Heroes. And while their at it release the Sonic Advance & Sonic Battle games on the Wii U e-shop. And While their at it...


But on-topic, I absolutely adore S3&K. It's my all time favorite Sonic game of all time. I've played and beat it multiple times on genesis, PC, Gamecube, Xbox & DS and If they release it again I will play it with no hesitation.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Mar 7, 2013
14,980
2
0
In space
Sonic 3 & Knuckles isn't available on PS3, I'm afraid.

Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles are available as separated games in this compilation:


But the lock-on feature is not present here, unfortunately.

Yeah I was surprised when I found out that you couldn't lock them to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

I mean how do you mess that up?

And I'm not sure about the Wii VC situation.

The Wii Virtual console has the lock on function, it's also worth mentioning that don't bother with the European Wii virtual console, as they will be the 50hz version.
 

Ferr986

Member
Oct 6, 2012
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Near-perfect game as far as I'm concerned. It'd be better without Marble Garden, but there we are. I think Marble Garden is the only zone in S3k wherein the acts don't appreciably change in aesthetic.

There is if I don't remember wrong, the ruins on the background are closer.
 

Zipzo

Banned
Nov 28, 2015
358
0
0
33
Tokyo, Japan
Ok here it is. I don't know if Sami still posts in the Sonic Community but it was such a good post I faved it.

Also yeah! Playing it with the original level progression of Carnival Night -> Flying Battery -> Ice Cap was really cool.



Ah who could forget? I was stuck here for about 10 minutes as a kid lol, and then started
pressing the D-pad up and down like a mad child.
I figured it out after that lol.

10 minutes? I legitimately didn't figure this out after months of owning the game as a kid. I would just get bored and turn the game off because I didn't get it. For the longest time, Sonic 3 ended at the casino zone.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,707
385
1,585
I could never beat this game. That last boss is pretty tough.

I also prefer the first part--Sonic 3. Better music and zones, IMHO.
 

Griss

Member
Sep 26, 2013
11,685
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515
Dublin, Ireland
Love these games. The best Sonic game ever when combined.

And S&K's levels are better than Sonic 3's. Marble Garden and the Casino zone alone make it so.

Sonic 3 has Ice Cap, though, which is the GOAT zone. So it's pretty close in the end.



But that sprite...

I like Sonic 3's better. Until Sonic 3 I always thought that Sonic had a singular row of three spikes like a mohawk on his back. The Sonic 3 sprite makes it clear that that's not the case.

And it was super-important at the time to use a new sprite. I remember booting the game up as kids on Christmas morning with my cousins and the first thing we all said was 'Whoa! Sonic looks different!' That kind of thing was important to a kid to make you know that you were playing a brand new gig. In our minds it was this huge graphical advance. Makes me chuckle looking back on it now.
 

Tizoc

Member
Jun 23, 2010
81,144
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Oman
All children must experience and enjoy this game, but they must NEVER
NEVER
EVER
know
of
THE BARREL
 

War Raichu

Member
Feb 6, 2013
1,369
0
555
my favorite game of all time

anybody that likes the game owes it to themselves to check out the Sonic 3 Complete hack. It does a lot of cool stuff like reorder levels to match what they originally were prior to the games being separated (Carnival Night -> Flying Battery -> Ice Cap, and you snowboard on the door you spin through at the end of Flying Battery), improves transition between the two games (after Launch Base, you get a cutscene using the Death Egg crash from S&K's title screen), and does a lot of bug-fixing. You can even tweak the music to use either S3, S&K, or a mix of both.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,861
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All SK stages are good. Even Sandopolis though its my least favourite of the bunch.

But Lava Reef is awesome as hell, as is Sky Sanctuary and Flying Battery. Music unmatched.

Vanilla S3 had Carnival and Marble Garden, which I rate below Sandopolis. But on the whole this game, when combined, had an onslaught of great stages. It is the best 2d platform game I ever played. Collecting all emeralds twice was epic, you would get Hyper mode.
 

Griss

Member
Sep 26, 2013
11,685
13
515
Dublin, Ireland
Sonic 2's special stages... :(

You just reminded me that I went straight from 1 to 3, thanks, haha. My neighbour had Sonic 2 (and a sega CD!) but I never did. I got 1 game a year at Christmas, that was it. I had to make them count.

You can't deny that that's what the Sonic 2 sprite looks like, though.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Aug 26, 2013
20,811
0
0
www.vgo-online.com
Eh, I would honestly posit that back then, with CRT blurring and all that it was more stuff like this:



along with stuff like buzzsaw spindash Sonic in e.g. AoSTH setting an expectation and the sprite doing nothing to dissuade the notion from lack of detail. (It couldn't, not with tech back in the day)

edit: Also on topic with Sonic 3's sprite, the CRT blurring actually makes the sprite work. When cleanly blown up with nearest neighbor nowadays, Sonic's irises make him look like he's high on coffee.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Mar 27, 2014
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Sega needs to approve the Taxman port already :p
Absolutely. The other iOS ports are amazing. Perhaps because of the size of this game compared to the others, Taxman and Stealth required a higher budget that Sega just wasn't interested in providing. I just saw a post from December from Stealth saying he's on contract for some project that isn't S3&K though, so I'm not getting my hopes up
 

RK128

Member
Jan 6, 2014
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Yeah I was surprised when I found out that you couldn't lock them to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

I mean how do you mess that up?

The Wii Virtual console has the lock on function, it's also worth mentioning that don't bother with the European Wii virtual console, as they will be the 50hz version.

I remember saying that resources in restoring the lock-on would of gutted a number of games from the collection.....so I guess Eclipse didn't have enough time to make the Genesis Collection :l.
 

Ferr986

Member
Oct 6, 2012
13,083
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0
Absolutely. The other iOS ports are amazing. Perhaps because of the size of this game compared to the others, Taxman and Stealth required a higher budget that Sega just wasn't interested in providing. I just saw a post from December from Stealth saying he's on contract for some project that isn't S3&K though, so I'm not getting my hopes up

nah, is not about the budget. It's not happening because Sega doesn't want the port, probably because good old licensing issues.

Sealth pretty much hinted about it if I'm not mistaken.
 

NathanS

Member
Jul 12, 2013
764
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Ok here it is. I don't know if Sami still posts in the Sonic Community but it was such a good post I faved it.


That was a whole lot of "Good thing good because it good. Me like thing so it good!" Like posting a map tells you nothing about level design. How do the challenges link together and build off one another? you know things like that would actually back up a point.