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Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Wii/PS3/360; downloadable episodic release - [Update: $15?]

Firestorm

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Willy105 said:
My argument is not that you shouldn't be feeling burned, but that it's wholly ridiculous to be burned on this level.



That is semantics. You do earn momentum in Sonic 4, just not in the way you wanted. Believe it or not, there is gameplay between boosters. You actually need to control Sonic to those places, control him from killing himself.
Your tag applies pretty strongly in this case.
 

CornBurrito

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Dec 1, 2009
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Willy105 said:
That is semantics. You do earn momentum in Sonic 4, just not in the way you wanted. Believe it or not, there is gameplay between boosters. You actually need to control Sonic to those places, control him from killing himself.
I understand that you have to control Sonic. It isn't just hold right to win. However, by pressing the jump button twice you can build up ridiculous levels of speed in no time with no downside (unlike the spindash). I do not consider pressing A twice earning your speed.
 

WillyFive

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Sep 17, 2009
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Firestorm said:
Your tag applies pretty strongly in this case.
How so?

Obsessed said:
I understand that you have to control Sonic. It isn't just hold right to win. However, by pressing the jump button twice you can build up ridiculous levels of speed in no time with no downside (unlike the spindash). I do not consider pressing A twice earning your speed.
Maybe, but in higher difficulties, rampant use of it could make it harder to control, and in close spaces with a lot of enemies it could be fatal.

Segata Sanshiro said:
Stop saying "you"! Say "they"! You lump me in with the Sonic fans ever again and I'll see to it you're perma-banned by sunset tomorrow!
Is it that embarrassing? Not all of them are crazy. Although that usually depends on what opinion you have on the series.
 
Willy105 said:
Maybe, but in higher difficulties, rampant use of it could make it harder to control, and in close spaces with a lot of enemies it could be fatal.
So now we're defending Sonic Advance 2 and 3's booster-long straightway-booster-OH GOD ENEMY/SPIKE TRAP RIGHT IN MY PATH AND I HAVE LESS THAN A SECOND TO REACT BECAUSE I'M GOING LUDICROUSLY FAST level design as hallmarks of clever, smart design that encourage momentum building and careful platforming, and that all of us who want the game we were told we were getting are just "wrong" and being ridiculous?

Motherfucking Dumbshit Member, indeed.
 

Sciz

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Oct 9, 2007
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Willy105 said:
It baffles me at how Sonic uncurling after a ramp can be such a big issue.
It trivializes the benefits of rolling, the core feature the games this is a direct sequel to were built upon. If you can't see how that's a completely backwards bit of game design, then please stop trying to argue with a viewpoint you don't even comprehend.
 

Zen

Banned
Jun 24, 2005
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Well at least this thread seems to be honestly split between people who like it and don't, continue with the pointless bickering gentlemen. :\
 

RobbieNick

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Jun 8, 2007
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Willy105. At first, I thought it was unfair that they gave you that title. It's just short of cyber bullying. But the more you post, the more you earn that title.
 

Ganondorfo

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May 29, 2006
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How come that the soundtrack of sonic 4 is almost a year on youtube? Or is sega making new music for this game, or are they using their old splash hill zone theme, ...
 

Azure Dream

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Ganondorfo said:
How come that the soundtrack of sonic 4 is almost a year on youtube? Or is sega making new music for this game, or are they using their old splash hill zone theme, ...
Music was ripped from the leaked version of the game. It's possible it will see some revision, since music tends to be a little more in flux when it comes to Sonic game development, and they also have to be careful not to sound too much like the original Sonic 1 and 2 tunes, as Dreams Come True technically own those (and Casino Street did sound a bit close to Casino Night's music at points).
 

RobbieNick

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Jun 8, 2007
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Another damn announcement of an announcement.

RubyEclipse has announced on the Sega forums that Sonic 4's release date will be announced next week.

My money's on mid-late October.
 

7echnicolor

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RobbieNick said:
Another damn announcement of an announcement.

RubyEclipse has announced on the Sega forums that Sonic 4's release date will be announced next week.

My money's on mid-late October.
Awesome, I'm hoping for early October though.
 

WillyFive

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Sep 17, 2009
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Ah, I give up. It's not worth fighting nostalgic retardation.

RobbieNick said:
Willy105. At first, I thought it was unfair that they gave you that title. It's just short of cyber bullying. But the more you post, the more you earn that title.
It's not like I am making stupid and unfounded arguments. Anytime I say something people disagree with, the tag works in their favor. I'll have to be a parody like Steven Colbert to keep it from working.
 

Iknos

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Oct 3, 2004
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Segata Sanshiro said:
Have you actually tried that? Have you actually beaten any of the games that way? In my opinion, the Advance/Rush games are considerably more difficult than the original games. They get there by being cheap and throwing pits everywhere, but they are definitely more difficult. You can't press right to win. That's as silly a criticism as someone describing Mega Man as "Press shoot to win".
More like "press right to progress" meaning you don't rely so much on platforming to advance through the level but just running and going off ramps and jumpers.

42 seconds into the Casino Street Trailer see how Sonic is being pushed through the level?

In classic Sonic games you would have to run using momentum built up yourself. If you didn't then you had to go another route...like going up by jumping on platforms which is a slower means to the same end.

So you eliminate choice and you eliminate finesse. Sonic just has one option...run into booster that takes you to your goal.

Willy105 said:
To most people, that is like the classics. Especially compared to the 3D games. Most people are not even aware about this weird "momentum gameplay" you guys use to play the originals.
Any proof?

There's a heck of a lot of gameplay in the Advance games. You have to be more attentive to play it, but it's still 'gameplay'. And those new moves helped in platforming, as you could either get to a higher place, or fall to a lower route if you did or not. It's sad for you to think that way.
Mario has a lot of gameplay too. It's just not Sonic style gameplay.

That is our argument. Advance and Rush is not classic Sonic gameplay and neither is Sonic 4. Those games were inferior to classic Sonic so it is safe to say that Sonic 4 will easily be the worst Sonic of the bunch.

Any proof?
Buy a Game Gear and play it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPSESf3BSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFhLecxCwTg

Sonic accelerated faster and the level design was very tight and straightforward. This was because Sonic was so huge in relation to the screen it made sense to tweak the gameplay.

That's not proof.
Don't have all the time in the world to prove things that you should know if you are posting in a Sonic thread.

There was quite a bit of platforming. It's just that you were doing it while moving. Platforming is still platforming no matter at what speed it's done, it doesn't lose anything, especially skill.
You lose skill when you have bouncers and bumpers and speed boosters doing the platforming for you.

There were platforming sections in Super Mario RPG, too. Doesn't make it a platformer.
Never said Spinball was a platformer. Was saying that it felt "wrong" when you did. So Sonic 4 is going to feel "wrong" in the same way and it is supposed to be a platformer.

They changed those basics to be truer to the character. It becomes more a Sonic game than just a faster Mario clone. There are always reasons to incorporate stuff from spin-offs into the main games. It keeps the main series from going stale, and even allows it to get an even bigger audience and easier to play, like Civ 5.
The character was all about defying gravity with skill. Not with a bouncer or speed boost. In Sonic 1 I could run up a wall with enough speed. That was badass. In Sonic 4 I can run up a wall after going into a "make any fucking character go fast enough to go up a wall" machine. That isn't impressive.
 

BlazeHedgehog

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I don't doubt that there are a few people who are not aware of Sonic's original momentum-based gameplay. There are kids for whom the Sonic franchise began with Sonic Adventure, Sonic Heroes, etc.

But I would not say that is enough to qualify as "most people". Most people who pay attention to this franchise are at least aware of the Genesis games, even those kids who adore Sonic Heroes so much. Sure, the kids might not understand why the old Genesis games were so revered (after all, Sonic doesn't even TALK! How can people like games where Sonic is silent I don't understand????????? O_O;;;;;;;), but the point is, a dominating percentage of people know what ideals this franchise was founded upon, some how, some way. It would be foolish to say otherwise.

And the point is, and always has been: Sega had the guts to call this "Sonic the Hedgehog 4", like that name was supposed to mean something. Since the initial hype storm, they've done little to prove that they've earned that name. Calling it "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" is just another cheap marketing tactic to grab your attention - and surprise! It worked! We've had at least two, maybe three Sonic 4 threads here at GAF, and they always balloon to several hundred pages in length.
 

ILikeFeet

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Oct 12, 2009
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at one point I thought, "Sonic Colors would have been better off as Sonic 4". but then I remembered that it's also a 3D Sonic game
 

loosus

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May 31, 2006
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Why the hell are we splitting hairs about what some Sega rep said? The game is fucking called "Sonic the Hedgehog 4." Not "Sonic Advance." Not "Sonic Rush." Not "Sonic Racetrack Platforming."

God forbid someone think a title be halfway accurate. It was more than just a fucking 2D perspective that made Sonic the Hedgehog. Otherwise, Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush would've filled the void.
 

TheOGB

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
I wouldn't say I'm "super-burned", but I probably won't be getting this. Sonic Colors will be the only game about a blue hedgehog I spend money on this year.
 

ILikeFeet

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Oct 12, 2009
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the game looks better and better with each video, however it will have to fight the stigma that was created when the game leaked. that's very hard with those who was there when the leak happened. maybe with a demo, but I wonder how that will do. they will have to rely on their younger audience who doesn't keep up with the game to drive sales. though that isn't the market they are targeting (that's Colors's job)
 

BlazeHedgehog

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
I have to buy it to review it.

If it wasn't for that... well, given the fact that "$10-$15" was apparently tossed around at PAX or whatever as the pricing for this game? No fuckin' way.

Edit: If it was like, $5? Yeah, sure, that's cheap enough where four zones would probably be worth it. You don't have to do much to be worth $5. But $10? For $10, I could probably buy one of the original Genesis games on XBLA, with more levels and classic gameplay. And $15? Sega's been awfully greedy with XBL pricing lately (See: minuscule Sega All-Stars Racing DLC that costs more than some XBLA games), and if they seriously think Sonic 4 is worth $15, fuck them sideways.
 

Iknos

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
No. Out of principle I won't.

This is a game I want to see crash and burn so that the higher ups at Sega learn a lesson.

The people making the game are getting paid anyways so its no skin of their backs.

I just don't want Sega getting the idea that Sonic fans will buy anything with "Sonic" on it. Even if the title is "Sonic 4".
 

Firestorm

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
If it's $15, no. If it's $10, no. If it's $5, probably no. If it's 240 MS points on sale, probably yes.

Willy105 said:
Saying "It's just semantics" just proves they misled people. They worded it in a way that would obviously have been taken a certain way by the fanbase. End of story.
 

Man God

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Nov 2, 2007
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Sega1991 said:
I have to buy it to review it.

If it wasn't for that... well, given the fact that "$10-$15" was apparently tossed around at PAX or whatever as the pricing for this game? No fuckin' way.

Edit: If it was like, $5? Yeah, sure, that's cheap enough where four zones would probably be worth it. You don't have to do much to be worth $5. But $10? For $10, I could probably buy one of the original Genesis games on XBLA, with more levels and classic gameplay. And $15? Sega's been awfully greedy with XBL pricing lately (See: minuscule Sega All-Stars Racing DLC that costs more than some XBLA games), and if they seriously think Sonic 4 is worth $15, fuck them sideways.

Real question here is why would you ever want to pay money for the XBLA StH games? VC baby or hell, one of the many collections do a better job for a fair price.
 
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Willy105 said:
To most people, that is like the classics. Especially compared to the 3D games. Most people are not even aware about this weird "momentum gameplay" you guys use to play the originals.
As a kid, I never thought of it as momentum, but rather that the level design fights you going uphill and going downhill in a ball is really fun and fast. But it was definitely a key part of the game, and I realized that before I could beat the first act.

Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
Yes. I feel like I have to. If I could travel back to 1994 and tell the 8 year old version of me that Sonic 4 wouldn't come out for another 16 years and I wouldn't buy it, the 8 year old me would rightfully kick the future me in the balls.
 

Firestorm

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I just got out of playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I like me achievements and I'd rather have them on the system I play more often. The reason I played S3&K is because I just finished Halo Reach with my friends and didn't feel like turning off my 360. Just stayed in Party Chat talking to them as I played a level or two of Sonic.

240 MS points each was a fair enough price for them.
 

Momo

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Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
I forgot this thread existed after posting my thoughts about the uncurling fiasco. I don't think I will, no.
 

BlazeHedgehog

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Man God said:
Real question here is why would you ever want to pay money for the XBLA StH games? VC baby or hell, one of the many collections do a better job for a fair price.
I don't own a Wii.

And I wouldn't buy them from XBLA anyway, because yeah, I have a Saturn and Sonic Jam, I have Sonic Gems Collection on the Gamecube, etc.

It was a comparison, though; why buy the dinky little "Episode 1" of Sonic 4 for $10 or $15 when you can just buy a complete, full-length Genesis Sonic game for $5? $10 would get you both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and the XBLA games can lock on to each other, giving you Sonic 3 & Knuckles - the biggest, most feature packed classic 16bit Sonic game, and probably five times the length of "Episode 1".

Sega would have to be out of their minds to price Sonic 4 Episode 1 at $15 - and given how utterly clueless their PR push for Sonic 4 has been thus-far, it would not be surprising.

The worst part is, there's a lot of dumb people out there who are going to buy it at that price.
 

TreIII

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
Nope! Sure won't! :lol

As I said a while ago, the turn of events that describe this game was truly the straw that broke the camel's back. Short of AM2 making a "Sonic the Fighters" sequel (would prefer another Fighters Megamix, in any case), or some other miraculous instance that stands to surprise me, I'm never buying a Sonic game ever again.

To date, Sonic Rush is the last game in the series that I bought. And even there, I didn't really enjoy the overall experience, beyond the Naganuma OST. So, for the sake of just making it so I do my own part to get off the roller coaster, I'm just staying away from the franchise from this point forward.
 
Zen said:
You're a dumb MegaMan MMO. >:|
Dude, come on. It's a MMO based on classic Mega Man made for mainland China. What possible chance does it have of being good? The trailer is awesome, don't get me wrong (and original series Mega Man is always the best - always), but it's probably going to be Maple Story but starring reploids. :\

Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
I want to say I won't, but I own almost every Sonic game. I might not pick it up at launch, but there's a good chance I will own this eventually.
 

RobbieNick

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Jun 8, 2007
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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
Yes. On PS3 and iPhone.

For me, I'm not going into this as the successor of Sonic 3 and Knuckles cuz I sure as hell knew it wouldn't be. Dimps has none of the original creators from Sonic Team in them so OF COURSE you're gonna get a Sonic game that feels different from the originals. I said from the beginning "expect Sonic Advance 4" and I was right.

It looks like a fun, old-school 2-D platformer that pays homage to classic Sonic in looks if not feel. My only regret is that I feel Sega is holding DIMPS back my making it like this. I want DIMPS to make THEIR Sonic game, not a Genesis copy. That's stifling creativity. Look at the newly made levels. The torch puzzles and the cards as platforms? That's creative! That's more of what I want DIMPS to do. It gives me a lot of hope that episode 2 will be even better.

My main problem from the start was calling it Sonic 4 in the first place. A lot of these complaints are legit because if you call it Sonic 4, not "Sonic HD" not "Sonic Retro" but Sonic 4 you need to live up to that legacy and this does not. It does not deter from my enjoyment of it personally, but I can sure see why it does for some die hards. It needs to be it's own 2D-HD game and not tethered so hard to the past.

All that said, I'm very interested in the game, but I'm much more excited for Sonic Colors.
 

Catalix

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
No compromise here. Not spending a dime on this shit, under any circumstance.

Colors has (discount) purchase potential, though.
 

Sir_Crocodile

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Segata Sanshiro said:
Just out of pure morbid curiosity, are any of you old-school guys who are feeling super-burned by this game buying it?
Nope.

I'll take a look at episode 2 to see if all of ruby's fine words have been translated into actual action, but I disliked the rush games so I guess this one isn't for me.
 
Gonna give the demo a shot, at the very least, and try as I might to get a download code for it :p

In terms of other Sonic games, Sonic Colors DS is definitely getting picked up, since I really enjoy the Rush games in their own way. Sonic Colors Wii is definitely intreiging me, but like Unleashed it looks awesome, but could totally feel like shit once I actually play it.
 

7echnicolor

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Iknos said:
No. Out of principle I won't.

This is a game I want to see crash and burn so that the higher ups at Sega learn a lesson.

:lol :lol :lol You can't be serious. God damn some of you are ridiculous. Give me a fucking break. This does NOT look as shitty as most of you are making it out to be. It looks like a fun, playable, 2D Sonic game to me.

Upsidedown Fuji said:
I'll be adding to the "problem" as you guys see it by purchasing it. I really don't care that its title is Sonic 4. It looks fun and the game doesn't look as broken as people here make it out to be. I'm sure I'll even manage to enjoy it.
Yep same here.
 
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7echnicolor said:
:lol :lol :lol You can't be serious. God damn some of you are ridiculous. Give me a fucking break. This does NOT look as shitty as most of you are making it out to be. It looks like a fun, playable, 2D Sonic game to me.



Yep same here.
Ehn, I didn't ask the question to set people at each other's throats over their own choices. If people don't want the game such as it is, there's nothing wrong with not buying it. If they even sort of want it but want to send a message to SEGA about their practices by not buying it, that's fine too.

On the flipside, there's nothing wrong with wanting to buy the game for what it is, so I don't think people should be calling people "part of the problem" or anything either.
 

pmj

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I'll buy it if the demo manages to impress me, but from what I've seen it's unlikely to do so.
 

celebi23

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Upsidedown Fuji said:
I'll be adding to the "problem" as you guys see it by purchasing it. I really don't care that its title is Sonic 4. It looks fun and the game doesn't look as broken as people here make it out to be. I'm sure I'll even manage to enjoy it.
Same for me. I might be on one of the first Sonic Cycle stages again but, you know what, fuck it. Been a Sonic fan since Sonic 2 (that's when I got my Genesis) & I owe it to my inner child to buy Sonic 4. Even if it isn't "on par" with the "Classic Games" so what? Even if the physics aren't 100% like the "Classic Games" I'm sure that I'll have fun playing this game.

During this whole Sonic 4 fiasco (and the most recent Sonic games), it's become clear that there are 3 main groups of Sonic fans:

*Über OCD fans:
Obsess over every small detail & want every Sonic game to be 100% like the classics

*Hardcore fans:
Will pretty much will play any Sonic game at least once. Most of the Sonic fans on GAF are in this group

*Casual fans:
Have most likely only played Sonic games since Sonic Adventure. Want every Sonic game to have that same formula