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News Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1

Kuranghi

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VRR 20hz-120hz at 4K? Wow I am really impressed. It means it can take care of <50ms frame-time drops. Nice.

Well, it gets rid of the stutter yes, but you will still feel the general input delay of the frame since its longer. As in, a drop to 20fps would still feel like shit regardless of VRR, it would look way better though.

Or am I misunderstanding how VRR works?
 

rofif

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The LG C1 OLED supports Nvidia G-Sync, AMD FreeSync, and HDMI Forum VRR.

Sony will enable HDMI Forum VRR on the A80J at a later date.
The A80J OLED will not support Nvidia G-Sync or AMD FreeSync.

The LG C1 is basically the closest a TV can come to being a PC monitor.

I know rofif rofif uses a 48" LG CX OLED as his PC gaming monitor and also for his PS5. Might wanna ask him.


LG C1




Yeah lg c1 got the real normal certified nvidia gsync. Works perfectly fine aside from some vrr oled brightness change but it’s rather minor. In fact if you disable it in the tv, then it goes back to using default hdmi free sync
 
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Well, it gets rid of the stutter yes, but you will still feel the general input delay of the frame since its longer. As in, a drop to 20fps would still feel like shit regardless of VRR, it would look way better though.

Or am I misunderstanding how VRR works?
No, you are right.
 
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Kuranghi

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Man, Sony really shat the bed on VRR and 4K120 support. If they had that down then it would "only" be price and slightly higher input lag standing in the way of it beating the LG in all (?) areas. What a bunch of dummies leaving the "gamer-TV" market behind like that. They wouldn't compromise the image to get the lower lag so thats always going to be higher with Sony I'd imagine, except if they add faster HW that does what they want quicker.
 
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StateofMajora

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65' X900e here. Still strong.
Great tv. Just wish it had more dimming zones. Waiting on sony mini led to upgrade. (insert spongebob X hours later meme here)

This is was my fear. Sucks to be honest.

BotW looks really awful.

Im considering getting a 1080p monitor or something.
Your x900h doesn’t have an additional picture processor like a lot of x90xxx sony tvs and the upscaling is relatively basic. Switch looks great on my x900e/a8h.
 
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StateofMajora

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Is it worth upgrading from the 49" xf900 to the xj90 in terms of picture quality?
Fuck no. You will be downgrading.

In every way except input lag. x90j is junk, no joke.

To clarify : motion has way more judder, you would be going from 32 dimming zones (on 49 inch, 55 has 48) to 24 zones. X900f has 50% more zones.

You will be losing great picture presets that x1 extreme chip tvs had, as well as the best bfi.

The upscaling on x90j is more artificial than x900f, and finally i’d be willing to bet that quality control was better on x900f build quality.
 
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Kerotan

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Fuck no. You will be downgrading.

In every way except input lag. x90j is junk, no joke.

To clarify : motion has way more judder, you would be going from 32 dimming zones (on 49 inch, 55 has 48) to 24 zones. X900f has 50% more zones.

You will be losing great picture presets that x1 extreme chip tvs had, as well as the best bfi.

The upscaling on x90j is more artificial than x900f, and finally i’d be willing to bet that quality control was better on x900f build quality.
With a much stronger processor how is it possible that it turned out worse?

It's a shame because I'd like to upgrade for the better input lag and hdmi 2.1. Would you think sony will fix these issues for next year's sets?

Do both the 55 and 49 x90J have only 24 dimming zones?
 
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StateofMajora

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With a much stronger processor how is it possible that it turned out worse?

It's a shame because I'd like to upgrade for the better input lag and hdmi 2.1. Would you think sony will fix these issues for next year's sets?

Do both the 55 and 49 x90J have only 24 dimming zones?
Even the 65 has 24 zones. The step up, 95j has 60 zones which is no better than 2019 950g. But that starts at the 65 inch size.

It’s not about processing power, it’s that Sony has tried to fix what isn’t broken.

2.1 features are nice, but if it’s vrr you want, just forget it on x90j as it’s broken. Not only that, but bfi is much more beneficial and you can’t use both at once. Your x900f has great bfi.

Input lag, on x900f is only an issue with a less than 4k source i.e. switch. But, truthfully you should be setting your ps5/xsx/ps4 pro to output 1080p on your x900f as that will give you 4:4:4 chroma with 4k hdr games. Output at 4k hdr while playing games on that sony, and ironically you get a worse image. x900f is an upscaling beast so it’s the way to go.

The 40ms or so lag you have to deal with is worth it for a superior product vs. the x90j.

As for whether I think they’ll fix any of these issues next year… they won’t bother putting more zones in the next x90xxx unless mini led is involved.

With regards to the image processing, such as upscaling, it probably won’t be as good as 2017/2018 chips but I HOPE they can get motion right, and mini led, then obviously at that point it’s a good upgrade over x900e/f/950g/h.

In terms of hdr highlights, the new XR chip is better, but that’s its only win. With mini led and XR chips, hdr should be really nice, if they can bother.

TLDR if you have x900e/f/950g/h don’t bother “upgrading” except for a higher zone tv which would be mini led, if Sony bothers.
 
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Ownage

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Great tv. Just wish it had more dimming zones. Waiting on sony mini led to upgrade. (insert spongebob X hours later meme here)


Your x900h doesn’t have an additional picture processor like a lot of x90xxx sony tvs and the upscaling is relatively basic. Switch looks great on my x900e/a8h.
What's a worthy replacement to the x900e? Would prefer to stay with LED.
 

Shmunter

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What's a worthy replacement to the x900e? Would prefer to stay with LED.
Personally I’m going for the 85” TCL for the other room, currently have a 75” x900e. It’s got all the fruit however VRR sucks like most sets, but 120hz etc is fine. It’s got mini led and good contrast apparently. See how it goes

Returned a top end Samsung recently. Inverse ghosting was off the charts, and blooming was very noticeable too. Shocking for top $. Worse in every way to the Sony, My expectations have been lowered.
 
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I got a 900e too. Going to get rid of it in a few years. Junk. ARC sound issues since 2018 (fixed it with an old school optical cable which people suggested online) and have dead pixels since 2019.

Will try an LG or Samsung OLED next time. Or if reviews are good, get a budget priced Vizio or TCL. I just want good picture quality, 120fps option, VRR and high motion rates. Which all should be standard on TVs in a couple years. All the other OS features and nitpicky shit I dont care about. Only OS feature I've ever used on any TV is the Netflix app.
 
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ParaSeoul

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I got a 900e too. Going to get rid of it in a few years. Junk. ARC sound issues since 2018 (fixed it with an old school optical cable which people suggested online) and have dead pixels since 2019.

Will try an LG or Samsung OLED next time. Or if reviews are good, get a budget priced Vizio or TCL. I just want good picture quality, 120fps option, VRR and high motion rates. Which all should be standard on TVs in a couple years. All the other OS features and nitpicky shit I dont care about. Only OS feature I've ever used on any TV is the Netflix app.
Keep hearing Samsungs OLEDs are supposed to be extremely expensive even by OLED standards,hoping its wrong consider I also hear they might slot them below the Neo QLEDs
 

dotnotbot

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Keep hearing Samsungs OLEDs are supposed to be extremely expensive even by OLED standards,hoping its wrong consider I also hear they might slot them below the Neo QLEDs
It's a brand new tech (yes, OLED, but a lot different to LG's WOLED) so it has to be expensive first year or two at least due to lower volumes.
 
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StateofMajora

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What's a worthy replacement to the x900e? Would prefer to stay with LED.
As of right now, nothing in terms of newer tvs, which is why I still have mine. Money is not an object for me. If i’d have known the industry would turn out like this, I would have bought a 75 inch z9d back in the day lol. Still the best lcd!

There is the sony z8h still for sale, which has x1 ultimate and 320 dimming zones, so 10x x900e zones.

That’s a good upgrade if you don’t mind a 75 or 85 inch size, and paying a lot of money of course.

The 85 inch has better uniformity generally than the 75 inch.

Otherwise my man, you should just keep waiting like me lol.
 
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Melchiah

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Even the 65 has 24 zones. The step up, 95j has 60 zones which is no better than 2019 950g. But that starts at the 65 inch size.

It’s not about processing power, it’s that Sony has tried to fix what isn’t broken.

2.1 features are nice, but if it’s vrr you want, just forget it on x90j as it’s broken. Not only that, but bfi is much more beneficial and you can’t use both at once. Your x900f has great bfi.

Input lag, on x900f is only an issue with a less than 4k source i.e. switch. But, truthfully you should be setting your ps5/xsx/ps4 pro to output 1080p on your x900f as that will give you 4:4:4 chroma with 4k hdr games. Output at 4k hdr while playing games on that sony, and ironically you get a worse image. x900f is an upscaling beast so it’s the way to go.

The 40ms or so lag you have to deal with is worth it for a superior product vs. the x90j.

As for whether I think they’ll fix any of these issues next year… they won’t bother putting more zones in the next x90xxx unless mini led is involved.

With regards to the image processing, such as upscaling, it probably won’t be as good as 2017/2018 chips but I HOPE they can get motion right, and mini led, then obviously at that point it’s a good upgrade over x900e/f/950g/h.

In terms of hdr highlights, the new XR chip is better, but that’s its only win. With mini led and XR chips, hdr should be really nice, if they can bother.

TLDR if you have x900e/f/950g/h don’t bother “upgrading” except for a higher zone tv which would be mini led, if Sony bothers.
It's such a shame, the X95J doesn't come in 55". :/

I was planning to get X90J, but due to 24 zones I'm going to postpone the purchase, once again, and either wait for X95J price to drop below 1000€, or to see what the 2022 models will offer. Sigh. It looks like I'll be postponing buying games another year as well, because I don't want to play 4K/HDR games on my 2009 Bravia 40W5500. And OLED is out of the question for me.
 
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Kerotan

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It's such a shame, the X95J doesn't come in 55". :/

I was planning to get X90J, but due to 24 zones I'm going to postpone the purchase, once again, and either wait for X95J price to drop below 1000€, or to see what the 2022 models will offer. Sigh. It looks like I'll be postponing buying games another year as well, because I don't want to play 4K/HDR games on my 2009 Bravia 40W5500. And OLED is out of the question for me.
Yeah I'm in such a predicament now. I want to get the x90j for the 2.1 and lower input lag but they're saying the vrr isn't impressive and the motion is worse. Also the number of zones.

I just wonder are they things I would notice with my eye. I play a lot of competitive games and the lower input lag would be valuable to me.
 

StateofMajora

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Yeah I'm in such a predicament now. I want to get the x90j for the 2.1 and lower input lag but they're saying the vrr isn't impressive and the motion is worse. Also the number of zones.

I just wonder are they things I would notice with my eye. I play a lot of competitive games and the lower input lag would be valuable to me.
Have you been playing in 4k output or 1080p?

If 4k, and hypothetically input lag was the most important factor in wanting to upgrade, you’d only be going from 24ms lag to 18ms if you got the x90j (as well as the 49 inch x950h if you can find one, which also has 32 zones btw)

While that is significant, it’s only just so, and is not worth upgrading your tv for, let alone a downgrade.

If you really didn’t care about downgrading, and really just wanted lower lag, I might suggest an entry level samsung such as the 6/7 series, which has 10ms lag, and still has a VA type lcd panel, but no local dimming, and obviously worse picture processing/color and likely worse screen uniformity. Or if a 120hz panel was important to you, bump it up to the samsung 8 series.

But really that would be a big downgrade in picture and motion so I would never do that, just fyi though.

At this point though ces is only 2 months away so you may as well wait and see what Sony will offer.
 
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Kerotan

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Have you been playing in 4k output or 1080p?

If 4k, and hypothetically input lag was the most important factor in wanting to upgrade, you’d only be going from 24ms lag to 18ms if you got the x90j (as well as the 49 inch x950h if you can find one, which also has 32 zones btw)

While that is significant, it’s only just so, and is not worth upgrading your tv for, let alone a downgrade.

If you really didn’t care about downgrading, and really just wanted lower lag, I might suggest an entry level samsung such as the 6/7 series, which has 10ms lag, and still has a VA type lcd panel, but no local dimming, and obviously worse picture processing/color and likely worse screen uniformity. Or if a 120hz panel was important to you, bump it up to the samsung 8 series.

But really that would be a big downgrade in picture and motion so I would never do that, just fyi though.

At this point though ces is only 2 months away so you may as well wait and see what Sony will offer.
Well I game on ps5 so I guess it depends on the game. Like warzone isn't native 4k but it's higher then 1080p that's for sure. Does it have to be native 4k or just above 1080p to get the better input lag?

My situation is unusual as I got a second ps5 recently and I'm going to sell the old one and keep the new one.

So I bought my 49 xf900 2 years ago for €980 on sale. The new 55 x90j is on sale atm for just €1070 locally. Plus you can get €100 psn credit so for me that's effectively €970.

So here's the catch. Obviously nobody will pay like €900 for my xf900 but if I bundle the ps5 with it at face value somebody might bite. People are paying €800/900 already for ps5's and we're not even close to Christmas so it might appeal to them to get an awesome 4k TV + ps5 for €1400.

If the plan works I'm effectively getting a bigger brand new bravia for no extra cost and another 5 year warranty.

I get what you're saying about the downgrades but I'm not even sure my eyes would tell the difference. There's also a possibility sony might release patches to improve some of the issues?

The last thing I'll say is that Christmas 2022 ps5's will likely be a very in demand item again and I could always do the same thing. Get a new ps5 next summer and sell the old one + the x90j and upgrade to the Sony 2022 TV which should at least fix the VRR issues.

Very complicated but I hope that makes sense.
 

Lognor

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Lol if i buy a C1 i need a complete guide on settings for pc and ps5, i'm super noob with this stuff.
Just pay someone to professionally calibrate it. Just following general settings won't give you the best results.
 

Lognor

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Yeah I'm in such a predicament now. I want to get the x90j for the 2.1 and lower input lag but they're saying the vrr isn't impressive and the motion is worse. Also the number of zones.

I just wonder are they things I would notice with my eye. I play a lot of competitive games and the lower input lag would be valuable to me.
Just buy the C1. It's much better for gaming.
 
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GymWolf

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Just pay someone to professionally calibrate it. Just following general settings won't give you the best results.
I don't trust anyone in my city, but leaving that aside, i was more talking about specific settings for pc and console like for example gsync stuff (both on tv and pc) or game mode stuff or hdr stuff, i have a headache everytime i read tv discussions in this forum.
 
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StateofMajora

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It's such a shame, the X95J doesn't come in 55". :/

I was planning to get X90J, but due to 24 zones I'm going to postpone the purchase, once again, and either wait for X95J price to drop below 1000€, or to see what the 2022 models will offer. Sigh. It looks like I'll be postponing buying games another year as well, because I don't want to play 4K/HDR games on my 2009 Bravia 40W5500. And OLED is out of the question for me.
You could really use an upgrade, yeah. Let’s see what ces brings.
Well I game on ps5 so I guess it depends on the game. Like warzone isn't native 4k but it's higher then 1080p that's for sure. Does it have to be native 4k or just above 1080p to get the better input lag?

My situation is unusual as I got a second ps5 recently and I'm going to sell the old one and keep the new one.

So I bought my 49 xf900 2 years ago for €980 on sale. The new 55 x90j is on sale atm for just €1070 locally. Plus you can get €100 psn credit so for me that's effectively €970.

So here's the catch. Obviously nobody will pay like €900 for my xf900 but if I bundle the ps5 with it at face value somebody might bite. People are paying €800/900 already for ps5's and we're not even close to Christmas so it might appeal to them to get an awesome 4k TV + ps5 for €1400.

If the plan works I'm effectively getting a bigger brand new bravia for no extra cost and another 5 year warranty.

I get what you're saying about the downgrades but I'm not even sure my eyes would tell the difference. There's also a possibility sony might release patches to improve some of the issues?

The last thing I'll say is that Christmas 2022 ps5's will likely be a very in demand item again and I could always do the same thing. Get a new ps5 next summer and sell the old one + the x90j and upgrade to the Sony 2022 TV which should at least fix the VRR issues.

Very complicated but I hope that makes sense.
Input lag doesn't depend on the game's native resolution, but for your hdmi 2.0 tv ; it depends on what you set your console to output.

1. If your console outputs 1080p, the x1 extreme chip has to upscale that to 4k. Causing 40ms lag, but slightly nicer picture vs 4k output because of the quality upscale, but for hdr, more importantly you retain 4:4:4 chroma (less banding, better color) in hdr.

2. Output at 4k, and your tv doesn't have to upscale, but you can only get 4:2:2 chroma in hdr, making those titles look worse, but you get 24ms lag, which is basically a whole frame faster. If you already do this, the jump in lag you'll get going to the x90j won't be huge.

Pick which is more important to you, and set your ps5 accordingly.

For x90j, I guess it's possible they patch the vrr over the years, but remember Sony already has your money. I wouldn't expect it, and they can't patch in more zones haha. Motion is what it is from day 1, they're probably not patching that even if they could.

For example, if you bought x900h in 2020 on Sony promising to patch vrr, you'd be sour to see vrr disabled local dimming!
 

Kerotan

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You could really use an upgrade, yeah. Let’s see what ces brings.

Input lag doesn't depend on the game's native resolution, but for your hdmi 2.0 tv ; it depends on what you set your console to output.

1. If your console outputs 1080p, the x1 extreme chip has to upscale that to 4k. Causing 40ms lag, but slightly nicer picture vs 4k output because of the quality upscale, but for hdr, more importantly you retain 4:4:4 chroma (less banding, better color) in hdr.

2. Output at 4k, and your tv doesn't have to upscale, but you can only get 4:2:2 chroma in hdr, making those titles look worse, but you get 24ms lag, which is basically a whole frame faster. If you already do this, the jump in lag you'll get going to the x90j won't be huge.

Pick which is more important to you, and set your ps5 accordingly.

For x90j, I guess it's possible they patch the vrr over the years, but remember Sony already has your money. I wouldn't expect it, and they can't patch in more zones haha. Motion is what it is from day 1, they're probably not patching that even if they could.

For example, if you bought x900h in 2020 on Sony promising to patch vrr, you'd be sour to see vrr disabled local dimming!
Thanks very much. The girlfriend wants a 55" so if I can pull off the deal I described in the other post I might just go for it. And obviously repeating the same stunt next Christmas will be easier considering I'll be selling a much newer TV.

I checked my ps4 and I've it set to output in 4k so I presume I'm getting the lower input lag. My kd on warzone most weeks is 3+ so I don't think I'd be that good with shitty ass input lag.

I really hope Sonys plan here was to aim low so it gives them room to improve the following year's sets. A scummy move if true but what can you do. They really did hit the perfect LCD's with the xe900, xf900, xf900 and xh900. Hopefully this new range will get back to the top.
 

StateofMajora

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Thanks very much. The girlfriend wants a 55" so if I can pull off the deal I described in the other post I might just go for it. And obviously repeating the same stunt next Christmas will be easier considering I'll be selling a much newer TV.

I checked my ps4 and I've it set to output in 4k so I presume I'm getting the lower input lag. My kd on warzone most weeks is 3+ so I don't think I'd be that good with shitty ass input lag.

I really hope Sonys plan here was to aim low so it gives them room to improve the following year's sets. A scummy move if true but what can you do. They really did hit the perfect LCD's with the xe900, xf900, xf900 and xh900. Hopefully this new range will get back to the top.
No problem! I too hope next year is better for Sony, and frankly it can only get better.
 
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StateofMajora

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I have the Sony x90j and I have to say so far so good. Nice to have hdmi 2.1 but the extra 6 inches is the game changer for me!
I’m glad you like it. And yeah, you wouldn’t think those extra inches would be huge, but they kind of are.
 

Shtef

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But, truthfully you should be setting your ps5/xsx/ps4 pro to output 1080p on your x900f as that will give you 4:4:4 chroma with 4k hdr games. Output at 4k hdr while playing games on that sony, and ironically you get a worse image. x900f is an upscaling beast so it’s the way to go.
Wait I don't understand, are you saying that if I output 1080p from series x my Sony xf90 will upscale the image and I will get better picture quality? Are you sure? Because if i select 1080p I am loosing hdr.
 

StateofMajora

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Wait I don't understand, are you saying that if I output 1080p from series x my Sony xf90 will upscale the image and I will get better picture quality? Are you sure? Because if i select 1080p I am loosing hdr.
Let me be clear : you will get better picture quality in hdr because hdmi 2.0 sets like your x900f don’t have the bandwidth for full 10 bit 4:4:4 chroma when outputting 4k hdr.

You will get less banding and better color if you select 1080p hdr on your xbox, ps4 pro, ps5 etc.

The downside is you’ll get almost an whole extra frame of input lag that way, but it’s still worth it. As a bonus, the upscaling the tv has to do will give a somewhat better image as well for games that aren’t native 4k.
 

StateofMajora

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I get it, but xbox series doesnt support hdr if you select 1080p output.
That is just stupid! Well… In your case I would just disable hdr where possible. 4k SDR with 4:4:4 chroma.

I haven’t come across a lot of games where the hdr wasn’t either faked, or non imperative to the experience ; i.e. they nerfed sdr mode.

For games where hdr is kind of integral to the visuals (just swap back and forth between hdr and sdr to check) go to the menu to turn on hdr.

For example, forza horizon doesn’t really need hdr and in fact may look worse.

Seems you need an upgrade. I do as well, for different reasons. Here’s hoping 2022 is a good year for tvs.
 
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Kerotan

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I’m glad you like it. And yeah, you wouldn’t think those extra inches would be huge, but they kind of are.
Yeah it's basically the difference between sitting at the end of my bed and being happy or with the 49" wanting to be sitting closer. Perfect size for a bedroom.
 
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Kuranghi

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Dolby Vision gaming currently sucks the big balls it seems, the "Auto Dolby Vision HDR" setting in Xbox Series added barely of worth to the output of FS2020 and made gradients worse and now the first proper DV game is just broken, good work whoever is spearheading DV gaming (y):

wrestlemania x8 wrestling GIF by WWE


Auto HDR in general is total hand shandy right now imo, its rubbish in all scenarios I've seen so far.

SDR vs. Auto-HDR:

 
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kyliethicc

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Dolby Vision gaming currently sucks the big balls it seems, the "Auto Dolby Vision HDR" setting in Xbox Series added barely of worth to the output of FS2020 and made gradients worse and now the first proper DV game is just broken, good work whoever is spearheading DV gaming (y):

wrestlemania x8 wrestling GIF by WWE


Auto HDR in general is total hand shandy right now imo, its rubbish in all scenarios I've seen so far.

SDR vs. Auto-HDR:

Wrong thread.