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Sony announces sale of 13% stake in DeNa

Striek

Member
That $130B figure is their total liability, which can be used interchangably with total debt, but its not necessarily the same thing depending on what context you mean. Most of it is from their profitable financial business (customer deposits, insurance benefits they will have to pay out). Of course, thats where most of their cash assets come from too.

To say Sony has $130 Billion in debt without context is highly misleading.
 

Trickster

Member
Jesus, mobile game developer that I've never heard of, and 13% of their stock is worth over 400 million dollars?
 

Donos

Member
Jesus, mobile game developer that I've never heard of, and 13% of their stock is worth over 400 million dollars?

Mobile gaming/stuff is pretty damn huge in Japan and Asia. That's why some think it's not that good to bail now but Zynga showed that it's not all gold what shines.
 
Wow. You are fast to insult people. Better inform yourself. Sony has debts about 130 Billion dollar:
7c31c33fa1673f00e462c29eb4b714df.png

Interesting too:
8d9d08150cc2ef77370b545fa7e7e3a9.png


The little spike at the end of 2012 happened because they sold buildings and lay off many employees.

You can read everywhere about it (some links after two minutes of googling):
How Sony Is Turning into a Ghost in Japan, Sayonara Sony, Sony Revival Under Hirai, Sonys Niedergang,Sony to Eliminate 10,000, Fitch cuts Sony debt ratings to "junk" status, Stocks Plumb New Depths, Worst-performing firms in 2012

But you don't have to read much just look at their financial reports and understand it.

Sony owns a bank.

If you go by that measure, the company I work for has over $1,000,000,000,000 ($1tn) in debt.

Company liability =/= debt.
 
Wow. You are fast to insult people. Better inform yourself. Sony has debts about 130 Billion dollar:

Where have I insulted you? You have said that they can't get new credits. This is wrong. And you judge the condition of a corporation only by their liabilities (which is not the same as debt, as has been already pointed out), and stock worth? Wat.

Edit: Oh god I have just seen the link you have posted... http://www.zimmer101.de/wiiu-spiele/sonys-niedergang.html Your website, right? I know you from several German forums where you are constantly talking nonsense about how Sony is practically bankrupt and will collapse soon, and that the PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, and maybe won't even get released. Sorry, but I can't take you serious lol.
 

dionysus

Yaldog
Sony is clearly cash poor. Just because they are no danger of going bankrupt at this moment doesn't mean they don't need to raise cash. Their debts are relevant as Sony is probably constantly rolling over debt. Much of this debt they now have to roll over was issued when Sony was considered a much stronger company, and they are not going to get as favorable terms. (On the flip side central bank absurdity means junk companies are borrowing at 5%, and Sony is still considered higher than junk.) A few more billion on the balance sheet as cash reserves will directly lower there effective borrowing rate for that large pile of debt they have to continue to roll over.
 
Gemüsepizza;48906201 said:
Where have I insulted you? You have said that they can't get new credits. This is wrong. And you judge the condition of a corporation only by their liabilities (which is not the same as debt, as has been already pointed out), and stock worth? Wat.

Edit: Oh god I have just seen the link you have posted... http://www.zimmer101.de/wiiu-spiele/sonys-niedergang.html Your website, right? I know you from several German forums where you are constantly talking nonsense about how Sony is practically bankrupt and will collapse soon, and that the PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, and maybe won't even get released. Sorry, but I can't take you serious lol.

Y5Ev2iX.png
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
They're doing a rationalisation. So, they're selling all the assets (buildings, shares) they don't consider profitable anymore / in the next future. Trimming the fat. All these moves are good for the future. It's true that they mean Sony isn't in the same shape as before, but it also mean that they're starting becoming more efficient.
 
They're doing a rationalisation. So, they're selling all the assets (buildings, shares) they don't consider profitable anymore / in the next future. Trimming the fat. All these moves are good for the future. It's true that they mean Sony isn't in the same shape as before, but it also mean that they're starting becoming more efficient.

This is how I've seen it. It looks like theyre focusing every penny into future products and services.

They're launching several high-visibility products later this year, and seemingly haven't come out the ass in R&D like they did before. And they started off 2013 by selling almost USD$1B worth of items, if not more than.

This can't really be spun negatively.
 

Somnid

Member
They're doing a rationalisation. So, they're selling all the assets (buildings, shares) they don't consider profitable anymore / in the next future. Trimming the fat. All these moves are good for the future. It's true that they mean Sony isn't in the same shape as before, but it also mean that they're starting becoming more efficient.

Unless Sony was suddenly expecting DeNa or the mobile sector to underperform (and given their restructured push for mobile and mobile gaming everything points to the the exact opposite) this is not true. New York and Tokyo real-estate will never not be a good asset to have, DeNa's worth is growing. These will absolutely be worth more in the future than they are today but Sony needs money today.
 

Celestial

Banned
I think they keep it for a reason.

I am failing too see the reason,especially this generation since SE treated 360 better than PS3.

In-Topic now.Sony is selling many things lately.This is never a good sign.They are buying things also but not anything major or something that can favor them.
 
In-Topic now.Sony is selling many things lately.This is never a good sign.They are buying things also but not anything major or something that can favor them.

They just bought EMI Publishing and Sony-Ericsson last year. Both were huge purchases, in the Trillions. Those are 'major' and definitely favor them.

They now have doubled down on selling mobile phones, which we will see how they will do later this year. The Yuga and Odin seem to be interesting devices at least, and people will still be buying phones this year. EMI's catalogue spans 1.5 million songs. I don't see how that's not a plus.

Sony also invested in Sharp and Panasonic, and plans to release consumer-grade affordable OLED screens this year.

Their tie-in with Olympus looks interesting. I'm not sure about the DSLR market, though. I know they're releasing a range of Android-powered cameras.
 

Narolf

Banned
I am failing too see the reason,especially this generation since SE treated 360 better than PS3.
They did, but the strategy hasn't really proved itself to be profitable when you look at the sales of FF games. Sony wants to keep FF, that is.
 
N

NinjaFridge

Unconfirmed Member
I am failing too see the reason,especially this generation since SE treated 360 better than PS3.

In-Topic now.Sony is selling many things lately.This is never a good sign.They are buying things also but not anything major or something that can favor them.

Wat.
 

RamzaIsCool

The Amiga Brotherhood
One thing is for sure, we as gamers are lucky that Kaz is the CEO now. Maybe the Gaming division would have looked a lot different if somebody else was there in his place.
 

Celestial

Banned
They did, but the strategy hasn't really proved itself to be profitable when you look at the sales of FF games. Sony wants to keep FF, that is.

If they wanted to keep FF maybe they should secure FFXIII to be PS3 exclusive.I think they could find a way to have FF on PS even if they didn't have stakes at the company.Main Final Fantasy games will be multiplatform from now on unless Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo moneyhat them.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
GAF sure is a hotbed for financial experts.

Gaming Age Finances

You tend to see some posters who hardly post in Sony related threads in some of these types of threads. That's the beauty of GAF is that you can catch these things easier.

This seems like a good move and I haven't kept track of their stock in a while but I have a friend who manages some shares in a few companies including Sony so I will have to chat with him.
 
If they wanted to keep FF maybe they should secure FFXIII to be PS3 exclusive.I think they could find a way to have FF on PS even if they didn't have stakes at the company.Main Final Fantasy games will be multiplatform from now on unless Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo moneyhat them.

As of now Versus XIII is PS3 exclusive...


:D
 

sangreal

Member
They just bought EMI Publishing and Sony-Ericsson last year. Both were huge purchases, in the Trillions. Those are 'major' and definitely favor them.

Sony is far from doomed, but Sony-Ericsson was $1.5bln euros which is nowhere near 1 trillion yen. EMI was bought by Sony/ATV, not Sony and it was paid for by selling shares so Sony and MJ's stake in that venture was diluted to 38% each (from 50%). Even still it was not in the trillions of yen ($2.2bln)
 

Narolf

Banned
If they wanted to keep FF maybe they should secure FFXIII to be PS3 exclusive.I think they could find a way to have FF on PS even if they didn't have stakes at the company.Main Final Fantasy games will be multiplatform from now on unless Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo moneyhat them.

Why XIV, X and Versus are still exclusive then?
 

Mario007

Member
I am failing too see the reason,especially this generation since SE treated 360 better than PS3.

In-Topic now.Sony is selling many things lately.This is never a good sign.They are buying things also but not anything major or something that can favor them.
They bought out Ericson, bought Gaikai, Bought EMI, formed a joint venture with Olympus and bought 12% of their shares (becoming their largest shareholder) and formed a joint venture with Panassonic.

At the same time they: disolved the joint venture with Samsung that was bleeding them dry, sold off 2 real estates and sold a share in a mobile gaming company.

This clearly points to restructuring and a good one at that.
 

Celestial

Banned
Why XIV, X and Versus are still exclusive then?

The thing with the XIV has been detailed in many threads.Square Enix wanted the game on 360 also but it has to do something with Microsoft policies and Xbox Live.

Final Fantasy X HD is exclusive but it is an HD remaster of a previous PS2 exclusive.It wont be as big as a main Final Fantasy game.Even though i want it to outsell FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and not because it's my favorite in the series :p

As for Versus.....well you see........maybe we should wait the next time we see it to discuss it again.

Please be excited :)
 

Narolf

Banned
The thing with the XIV has been detailed in many threads.Square Enix wanted the game on 360 also but it has to do something with Microsoft policies and Xbox Live.

Final Fantasy X HD is exclusive but it is an HD remaster of a previous PS2 exclusive.It wont be as big as a main Final Fantasy game.Even though i want it to outsell FFXIII and FFXIII-2 and not because it's my favorite in the series :p

As for Versus.....well you see........maybe we should wait the next time we see it to discuss it again.

Please be excited :)

I know, I know.

Chances are, it will sell more than LR.

You'll get to witness more viral marketing of Versus soon enough.

Please be excited.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Gemüsepizza;48906201 said:
Where have I insulted you? You have said that they can't get new credits. This is wrong. And you judge the condition of a corporation only by their liabilities (which is not the same as debt, as has been already pointed out), and stock worth? Wat.

Edit: Oh god I have just seen the link you have posted... http://www.zimmer101.de/wiiu-spiele/sonys-niedergang.html Your website, right? I know you from several German forums where you are constantly talking nonsense about how Sony is practically bankrupt and will collapse soon, and that the PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, and maybe won't even get released. Sorry, but I can't take you serious lol.

Wow at the website, hahaha.
Thanks for exposing him.
 

Jburton

Banned
If Sony was in dire need of cash they wouldn't be spending billions buying stuff Olympus, Gaikai, IME, Ericson, that ISP which name I forgot, etc.

It's called restructuring. It's that simple.


It suits some people's agenda to think that Sony is on the brink / fucked / PS4 is fucked etc.


Kind of pathetic to see the eagerness in people for the demise of a massive part of the gaming industry.

We need successes from all 3 to help drive a healthy and diverse industry.
 

QaaQer

Member
I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.

save up until you have 10 or 20k, otherwise you'll get raped with fees.
 

AwRy108

Member
Sony is a slow lumbering giant of a company weighed down by its large portfolio of products and services which makes it hard to focus at the speed the market is moving.

Apple are making billions on a relatively tiny but highly focused portfolio which means they can move quickly and decisively with the market, it appears someone at Sony has finally woken up to this and is trimming the huge amounts of fat from the company.

Says it all.
 

Skyzard

Banned
To add a bit of context:

- Sony bought the part of So-Net (Internet service provider and medical information website operator) they didn't own for $765.70 million in August
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/09/us-sony-sonet-unit-idUSBRE87807A20120809

- So-Net owned a big chunk of shares of DeNa

- Now they are selling these shares

Thanks for the details/clarification.

Wow at the website, hahaha.
Thanks for exposing him.

Not entirely surprising either :p ... if Gemüsepizza's translation of the site was accurate about the PS4 not being much more powerful about the Wii U especially got a lol. Although bit unfair using it in gaf maybe..doubt he's said that here but nice to know how bad he wants them to fail.

Sony has about as much it owes right?
 
The shares Sony owned in Dena comes as a bonus from buying So-net, I thought they would keep it and try to boost ps mobile games, but they obviously don't see the need. They got what they wanted (So-net) and don't want to be personally vested in mobile games (outside of possibly providing a framework for developers). As a minority share owner they would have no say on where Dena could put their games so it seems like they decided with selling it and considering what they got for it, I don't blame them.

Had no idea they even had a stake in DeNa.

I wonder how much there Square Enix stake could get them
lol?

I totally forgot Sony had some Square Enix shares. I wonder if they earned or lost by now. SE is bigger at least, so maybe it's earned.

Last night it closed at Y1106, Sony holds 9.52 million shares (8.25%), selling at this price would yield ¥10.5B or ~$112.6 million, Sony paid ¥14.9B for (~$124million at the time) for those shares, so they would actually be losing money.

I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.

Analyst are saying SNE's ADR is a buy under $15 dollars and a hold over $15. NTDOY is currently a hold. It's currently at $15.36. You can try to gamble and see or play it safe and talk to a financial analyst expert at your local bank, they will most likely coerce you to buy Mutual Funds or Bonds to you though.

Sony buying Square Enix confirmed! You heard it here first =p

Seriously tho.. why do they keep it?

If anything, Sony should probably increase their stake there.

I think Sony will definitely do something with those shares. What they will do with it, I do not know. Kaz, coming from games and being an ex president of SCEJ, knows that SCEJ is a worthless POS. He also knows that 8.25% doesn't do him any favors, much like 13% of Dena, he can't control where SE games go (DQ Nintendo exclusive, FF to 360) or where DLC goes (TR timed exclusive DLC on 360), so he might want to try to give SE a tender offer in order to increase their share there and have a controlling stake in the company and therefore control where their games go. Likewise, he might see that that's not worth it and decide to sell those shares and apply that money somewhere else.

Whatever it is, I don't think Kaz wants to sit idle with those shares. We do know that Kaz is making moves everywhere, both buying and selling. Nothing is safe from being liquidized, not even from the core components (Dena affects both gaming and mobile core, M3 sale affects medical core). Nothing is safe from being acquired, not even from non core components (EMI's music publishing, Indian TV program, etc).

Sony is far from doomed, but Sony-Ericsson was $1.5bln euros which is nowhere near 1 trillion yen. EMI was bought by Sony/ATV, not Sony and it was paid for by selling shares so Sony and MJ's stake in that venture was diluted to 38% each (from 50%). Even still it was not in the trillions of yen ($2.2bln)

Source? I know Sony/ATV led a consortium where they had about ~35-40% interest on it. I think they went in with over $500 million. I haven't read anywhere that their stake is down to 38% each. Apparently Sony can buy MJ's share of the venture at anytime for $250 million but they still haven't done it.
 

pelican

Member
Sony is in dire need of cash, therefore is selling stuff. Its that simple.

It really is not that simple.

But of course instead of being a video game forum armchair business man perhaps you have a rock solid financial based education, and work in the field.

Like with the majority of forum visitors who make "factual" statements surrounding the business of our hobby I bet it is the former.

edit - I don't really mean to be rude, but I just tire of all the so called experts online.
 
Its like 10 percent tho right? Is it really any positives to it right now?

8.25

The only positive to keeping it and not increasing their share is that, if they sold it now, they would lose money. IMO, they either need to increase their share on SE or liquidize them.
 

sangreal

Member
Source? I know Sony/ATV led a consortium where they had about ~35-40% interest on it. I think they went in with over $500 million. I haven't read anywhere that their stake is down to 38% each. Apparently Sony can buy MJ's share of the venture at anytime for $250 million but they still haven't done it.

Yeah, sorry. I got that wrong due to some poor reporting at the time (which I even went back and checked before posting).
 
Gemüsepizza;48906201 said:
Where have I insulted you? You have said that they can't get new credits. This is wrong. And you judge the condition of a corporation only by their liabilities (which is not the same as debt, as has been already pointed out), and stock worth? Wat.

Edit: Oh god I have just seen the link you have posted... http://www.zimmer101.de/wiiu-spiele/sonys-niedergang.html Your website, right? I know you from several German forums where you are constantly talking nonsense about how Sony is practically bankrupt and will collapse soon, and that the PS4 won't be much more powerful than the WiiU, and maybe won't even get released. Sorry, but I can't take you serious lol.

never to post in this thread again. seriously, it's really pitiful how folks get so attached to these companies.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
I've got $5000 to invest in the stock market, but I've never been involved before. I don't want to pay an investment advisor for advice since that amount is hardly worth their while. I see Sony getting a good boost this holiday with PS4...is this a "good" time to buy some of their stock? I'm also looking into Nintendo as well since they're pretty cheap now, and I can't see them going any lower.

Just buy a PS4 and try and flip it. Chances are you'll make more than playing the market.

I've got cash in an index fund and I swear it hasn't budged in ten years.
 
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