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Analysis Sony certifying 5.5Gb/s raw SSDs as additional PS5 storage is is worrying - heres how and why

Skyfox

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Oct 24, 2017
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I'm with op. English may not be their first language but storage on PS5 has been a mess from day one with the 600gb or whatever you get after OS install.

My games average 100GB. If I'm staying with Playstation for my library but I can only access like 3% of it at any given time then it's poor design.

Blame covid if you like but the truth is the SSD port unlocking process is a shambles.

Apparently Sony takes a large cut to allow software on its store. Why can't they put this towards our hardware storage? Next gen should have come with 2TB minimum.
 

Guilty_AI

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hd remake GIF
hey, shit looks cool, and i'm not the only one who seems to thinks so


 

ZywyPL

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No. He's upset over the fact that the biggest tech advantage the PS5 has will potentially not be taken advantage of. The advantage Cerny spent literally 30 minutes shoving down our throat. The advantage that came at the cost of more graphical power. The advantage that came at the cost of fewer storage.

But you already knew what he meant and were being facetious, right?

There was never an advantage to begin with, no magic, no secret sauce, just marketing and fantasies. But that house of cards has been falling down for some time already with all the loading times comparisons, where on PS5 there were suppose to be none, instantaneous, maybe 1s long in worst case scenario, while the reality couldn't be any more different. But that still didn't stop people from believing that PS5 SSD will outperform and RTX GPU.


PS. But I have to say it is entertaining to see how people who claimed that you don't need more space because of Kraken compression, and that you typically uninstall games you've finished anyway, are now so eager to expand their storage. Ironic.gif.
 
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makaveli60

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Yeah, it’s very sad, but I’m starting to approach everything Sony does with the fact that for new Sony management profit is first always and everything else is secondary. Yeah, fuck them, not because they do this but because they were shady and dishonest about all of this.
 
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Yeah, it’s very sad, but I’m starting to approach everything Sony does with the fact that for new Sony management profit is first always and everything else is secondary. Yeah, fuck them, not because they do this but because they were shady and dishonest about all of this.
Sony is a corporation. To expect a corporation to not put profit first is silly. It literally exists to make money. Always has always will.
 

CuNi

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NVMe has 4-5 priority lanes.


Priority lanes are also not necessary for throughput but for squeezing in last second request. Like you requested loading a whole level with many GB and suddenly your character gets shot and you need the sound file. That's where a higher priority would be needed because choppy audio is way more noticeable than a tiny delay in texture loading.
 
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Topher

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No. He's upset over the fact that the biggest tech advantage the PS5 has will potentially not be taken advantage of. The advantage Cerny spent literally 30 minutes shoving down our throat. The advantage that came at the cost of more graphical power. The advantage that came at the cost of fewer storage.

But you already knew what he meant and were being facetious, right?

Well, it seems that "cost of fewer storage" has resulted in games requiring less storage so that seems to have taken care of itself.

As for the OP, he needs to step away. He sounds like a tightly wound dude.
 

makaveli60

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Sony is a corporation. To expect a corporation to not put profit first is silly. It literally exists to make money. Always has always will.
Sure, but they were not like this in the previous gen. They were more consumer friendly, didn’t mislead us and were generally more transparent.
 
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Neofire

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Sure, but they were not like this in the previous gen. They were more consumer friendly, didn’t mislead us and were generally more transparent.
I blame the company going from a Japanese structure to more of a European structure in regards to putting "money over all" approach they have have now.

When they had more Asian executives at the top it more about the brands integrity and customer satisfaction then money. If you look at the direction Sony is going now it's the same as Microsoft but unfortunately for Sony they don't have no where near the capital that Microsoft has so they have do somethings a little bit slower.
 
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Shmunter

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There was never an advantage to begin with, no magic, no secret sauce, just marketing and fantasies. But that house of cards has been falling down for some time already with all the loading times comparisons, where on PS5 there were suppose to be none, instantaneous, maybe 1s long in worst case scenario, while the reality couldn't be any more different. But that still didn't stop people from believing that PS5 SSD will outperform and RTX GPU.


PS. But I have to say it is entertaining to see how people who claimed that you don't need more space because of Kraken compression, and that you typically uninstall games you've finished anyway, are no so eager to expand their storage. Ironic.gif.
 

RafterXL

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The more worrying thing is why people need more storage. Games take like 10 minutes to download, if that.
Because a lot of games aren't like they used to be. We don't just play them and then delete them. I've got multiple games, on both consoles, that are basically permanent additions. The idea that people should just delete them and redownload them every time they want to play, or get new content, is absurd. And god forbid you play a CoD type game. Shits half the drive by itself, and is absolutely not a game you can just delete and re-download every time you want to play.

The fact that you *don't* need more storage seems strange as hell to me. My XSX drive was filled the week I bought it and I was already installing games on the expansion drive. I've been playing the delete/install game on my PS5 for 6 months now, and it was even worse before I could store PS5 games on an external. One tb was always too small for a next gen console to launch with and I would have gladly paid for bigger internal drives.
 

Topher

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Because a lot of games aren't like they used to be. We don't just play them and then delete them. I've got multiple games, on both consoles, that are basically permanent additions. The idea that people should just delete them and redownload them every time they want to play, or get new content, is absurd. And god forbid you play a CoD type game. Shits half the drive by itself, and is absolutely not a game you can just delete and re-download every time you want to play.

The fact that you *don't* need more storage seems strange as hell to me. My XSX drive was filled the week I bought it and I was already installing games on the expansion drive. I've been playing the delete/install game on my PS5 for 6 months now, and it was even worse before I could store PS5 games on an external. One tb was always too small for a next gen console to launch with and I would have gladly paid for bigger internal drives.

It depends on how many games you play in any given time period. I usually play one game to completion and then the next. So I don’t expect to buy additional storage for my XSS, much less my PS5. But that’s me.
 
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Fredrik

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It depends on how many games you play in any given time period. I usually play one game to completion and then the next. So I don’t expect to buy additional storage for my XSS, much less my PS5. But that’s me.
Unfortunately I’m not that focused. Quoting myself from the thread about what we’re currently playing:
3 Aug 2021

The Ascent - Enjoying it a ton, has turned out to be one of my favs of the year. Amazing visuals and sound!

Ratchet & Clank - Already finished it but I’m still fooling around looking at the nice graphics. Amazing game, top 3 of the year for me so far. Can’t believe they actually voice acted the whole game in swedish! Hats off!

MS Flight Simulator - Didn’t think I would like it this much. It’s awesome! And yet I’m mostly chilling and exploring the world and doing some tasks. Super relaxing game, until you try to land…

FF7RI - I don’t enjoy it tbh, the combat is pissing me off, but the visuals are super nice and I really like how they’ve recreated famous areas from the original. But omg please give me turn based combat next time Square!

OMNO - Simplistic game I stumbled into on Gamepass, the kids loves it, near the end now. Some cool platforming ideas.

Half Life Alyx - Not sure what to think about this yet. It’s a highclass production but also clunky and confusing.

The Room VR - Had some free time one evening, was just supposed to have a quick peek but ended up playing until the battery died. Oddly amusing game.

Biomutant - Enjoying this quite a bit but the highs are high and the lows are low, plenty of spots on this sun.

Zelda Skyward Sword HD - Not enjoying this at all, I hate the button controls and I already dropped it once because of the motion controls. But it’s Zelda. I have to play through it at least once, right?

And some never ending ones:
No Man’s Sky, Minecraft
While this may not seem so bad on PS5 I’ve only had it for about 2 months. Meanwhile I’ve had XSX since launch and have 3TB games installed 😳
If I uninstall a game it feels like I’m dropping it, I battle with this constantly on PC where I got cheap and went with a 1TB drive and there I have all kinds of other crap on the drive, I can fit about 4 games and that’s not nearly enough imo.
 

longdi

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I blame the company going from a Japanese structure to more of a European structure in regards to putting "money over all" approach they have have now.

When they had more Asian executives at the top it more about the brands integrity and customer satisfaction then money. If you look at the direction Sony is going now it's the same as Microsoft but unfortunately for Sony they don't have no where near the capital that Microsoft has so they have do somethings a little bit slower.
don't forget jimbo is an accountant by profession. you really need an engineer or a programmer and a gamer to run SCE imo
 

RJMacready73

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Ok i finally enforced me to write this up. I did not wanted to because it stresses me out to a Level that iam exhausted. Exhausted by the realisation that internaly Sony is seeing PC as a very very big Source of Income and that they will do almost everything to make sure that Ports to PC will be possible easy and fast. Even cripple their own consolewich they spend Millions on to develop..

Ok lets dive in:

Cerny said in his Talk that PS5s internal SSD has 5.5Gb raw speed. And additional 4 priority Levels in comparision to normal Nand Drives. They come with 2. So PS5s SSD can use 6. Just a little later Cerny stated that in order to be on par with PS5s internal SSD the Third Party SSD would need to have some additional Speed to even out the missing 4 Priority Levels. Probably the Kraken Controllers job to synthesize 4 more prio lvls with the additional speed.

So much for that Talk and the Perspective he laid out.

so in Oktober last Year we heard that Western Digital would release the first PS5 certified Third Party SSD with their sn850 here the Article about that :

It was then also no suprise that the sn850 would bring a 7Gb raw Throughput on the table. Very much the overhead that we assumed would be neccessary to make up for missing 4 priority Lvls.

After that came nothing from Sony at all about the Third Party SSDs.. until NOW..

But what we miss here is what has happend within Sony in exactly that timespan inbetween the first report about WDs sn850 and this beta invitation with the infromation that a mere 5.5Gb would miraciously befast enough for PS5...
Off course it is about Sony engagement in PC gaming.
What was heard in that timespan?

Sony released more Exclusives and inofficial info about Uncharted4 and other Exclusives made it to the public. They bought Nixxes and everybody understands this as a move to help their PCPort strategy.

So they rated around summer last year the WD sn850 to be sufficiently fast enough to be on par with PS5s internal SSD.

Then came this big BIIG Intrest for PC Gaming to light.
And all of a sudden 5.5GB is enough to be "on par" with PS5s internal SSD?

The Thing is - 5.5GB will never be fast enough to be on par with the same SSD that has 4 Priority Levels more in its Sleeve.
The Problem here is sadly - while this is true - we never find out how much true it is.

Because:
We know that this SSD in the PS5 was planned to be used as a leverage for 9GB/s realtime datastreaming . First title who datastream in realtime many GB/s was Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. Insomniac tweeded out that they make use of real time datastreaming and that everything you do not see on screen is not in memory. - hence every move of the camera will induce a realtime stream of Data comming of the SSD.

So Ratchet and Clank seemingly work fine with a 5.5GB Third Party SSD like some ealry adopters of the beta Programm and indeed Insomniac themselfs point out . But Ratchet and Clank is far from using PS5 potential with they claimed openly in the DF Interview with John Linneman. They said (paraphrasing here) :,, we found out that our engine needs to be updated to be able to handle so much data at once."

So their Game cannot be a Benchmark for Third Party SSD at all.
Or can it?

If Sony allowes 5.5GB SSDs then no Devs Third Party or Sony Studios alike could make a Game that would need a SSD that needs a raw speed of 7GB/s period
That Train has left.

9Gb/s (up to 22GBs) Throughput of PS5 that Train has left too. I cannot imagine that they did not incorporate the PS5s additional 4 Prio Levels in these Numbers.
So since no further overhead available to the Kraken Controller there is no additional 4 Prio Lvls available for PS5 Exclusives also. Even on the PS5s internal SSD!! This Ghost is out of the Bottle and cannot be put back into it. Since all available Third Party SSD do not have those 6 Prio lvls , Developers now need to all the Time assume that someone puts a 5.5GB raw SSD with 2 prio lvls in his PS5.

PS5 Downgraded - one year after Release . Absolutly amazing!!!



And why????

because their internal projections were as such that PC Gamers will only very slowly adopt 7GB nand Storage and it would be immensly difficult (or outright impossible) to port Games form Sony Studios wich leveraged the full PS5s I/O capabilitys in the development of their respective exclusive Title.

With that of course is the dream over for immensly more detailed worlds wich would need 9GB/s of realtime Datastreaming. I could imagine also that they internaly tested this 5.5Gb/s to be equvivalent to Xbox capabilitys, further reducing PS5 specific Dev Effort..
Because to me a 5.5GB/s SSD with only 2 Prio Levels instead of PS5s internal 6 sounds quite like what the Xbox could dream to achieve with its mere 2.5Gb/s Storage.

I am sure that iam not to far off here in regards of all my assumptions and what sealed the deal here for me were actually the Twitters Actions of Insomniac Fitzgerald and Cerny himself.

First that Fitzgerald wrote this "5.5Gb oh yeah its fine its fine we tested it yada yada" Tin Can. He was pushed on that stage like a Clown on a Pub Stage by someone higher than him to go and write something the more technical PS5 Fans would swallow.

And when Cerny actually gave his recommendation for the "suprise" WD sn850,( remember ? It was rated last year under Sonys "old" Strategy , when PS5 capabilitys weren´t thrown under the bus for some more sells on PC) it was clear that he also is not happy with this decision. Clearly he is not. How could he?

Sony says 5.5GB raw is enough and the system architect recommends a 7Gb/s raw Storage?? Sounds like "civil disobidience" to me.
Hopefully this 5.5GB/s recommendation is pulled / denied/ dismissed so this this wall of text here has no validiy anymore.
I hope i am wrong. But i am not, iam afraid..

fuck me m8, you need to step away from gaming if this shit gets your knickers in a twist to this extent, Sony is fucking business and in the business of making money m8, not some religion
 
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I was under the impression that speed of the internal is similar to this 5.5GB/s minimum requirement and most of the talk from Cerny has been about the custom IO used in the PS5 to eliminate bottlenecks, latency etc, not the actual SSD itself?

I think this PS5 expansion slot is the most concerned GAF has ever been
 

Fredrik

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-Cerny is a God


-Cerny is making a mistake


This is a good thing though. Would’ve been a horrible solution to force everyone to pay $300+ for some ultra fast storage. Now we know games run on slower/cheaper drives as well, and they can just have a disclamer that says games might not run 100% the same as on the internal drive.
 

ethomaz

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I’m not sure what that means.

Any SSD that match the specs works even without certification or something like.
 

Connxtion

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3.9gb/s seems fine
How we work out Mb/s as I only have the XSX and a extra seagate external drive. And am getting (using online calculator) 4442Mb/s transferring between the internal and the external. (42.4GB took 1:16 to transfer, from pressing A to it vanishing from the queue)

In that article Xbox is sustained 2.4Gb/s, yet am getting almost double that between drives. So is that 2.4Gb/s the minimum it will drop to?

I was actually shocked how fast it transferred 😂
 
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Data Ghost

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Remember when the PS5 SSD was going to destroy everything in its path and be a major advantage over the Series X? LAWL.
 
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Fredrik

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Remember when the PS5 SSD was going to destroy everything in its path and be a major advantage over the Series X? LAWL.
This has nothing to do with that, the XSX drive is still nearly half the speed of the slowest third party drive used here. This news just shows that extra storage on PS5 will be a lot cheaper than expected.
 

JackMcGunns

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This has nothing to do with that, the XSX drive is still nearly half the speed of the slowest third party drive used here. This news just shows that extra storage on PS5 will be a lot cheaper than expected.


It doesn't, but the statement still stands.
 

dano1

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I'm with op. English may not be their first language but storage on PS5 has been a mess from day one with the 600gb or whatever you get after OS install.

My games average 100GB. If I'm staying with Playstation for my library but I can only access like 3% of it at any given time then it's poor design.

Blame covid if you like but the truth is the SSD port unlocking process is a shambles.

Apparently Sony takes a large cut to allow software on its store. Why can't they put this towards our hardware storage? Next gen should have come with 2TB minimum.
Most people probably wouldn’t buy a PS5 if it was $700….
 

Zathalus

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It is surprising to me that people think games have access to the full 5.5GB/s raw SSD speeds. This is very likely not the case, obviously the OS needs some speed reserved for it fo functions such as recording video, basic OS functions, downloading in the background, as well as all the other functions the PS5 needs to do. The XSX is the exact same, of the 2.4GB/s drive in that system, only 2GB/s is guaranteed for games, while the rest is reserved for the OS. I'd imagine the exact same goes for the PS5, likely 5GB/s max is allowed for games, while the OS uses the rest.

I'd imagine that such reservations are smaller for the m2 drives that you install, as no OS features are going to be running off it, although I guess game updates still need to occur.
 
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BlackM1st

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This is nothing. I remember a guy named Jeff Rigby or something like that. His epic PS3 secret sauce shenanigans was just so wild.
 

Vae_Victis

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Going down from 7 GB/s to 5.5 GB/s does absolutely nothing for PC ports, for several technical and economical reasons. Long story short and the main point against OP's thesis, it's not just the PS5 SSD itself but the whole I/O which will be very hard to match in a widespread manner on PC in the short future; capping the baseline SSD speed at a lower value has zero effect on that aspect.

If anything, Sony might have decided to down-cap the raw speed usage of their SSD (still doubt that, I'm pretty sure if you install a 5.5 or lower some games at some point will clearly perform worse, once developers start pushing the hardware at 95% of its potential, instead of the likely 50-60% right now not even a year after launch) because they realized that keeping the 7 GB/s requirement would mean leaving people almost no options for additional storage and making every single one of those options prohibitively expensive (so, as far as most users are concerned, they would still be no viable additional storage options to pick).
 
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Jun 1, 2016
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This has nothing to do with that, the XSX drive is still nearly half the speed of the slowest third party drive used here. This news just shows that extra storage on PS5 will be a lot cheaper than expected.
2 posts up says it's about 4gbs
 

ACESHIGH

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Who cares? Sony will port PS4 games to PC first. Games made for a 5400rpm laptop HDD. By the time they start porting ps5 games the average PC gamer will have faster storage than the ps5.
 
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John Wick

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How we work out Mb/s as I only have the XSX and a extra seagate external drive. And am getting (using online calculator) 4442Mb/s transferring between the internal and the external. (42.4GB took 1:16 to transfer, from pressing A to it vanishing from the queue)

In that article Xbox is sustained 2.4Gb/s, yet am getting almost double that between drives. So is that 2.4Gb/s the minimum it will drop to?

I was actually shocked how fast it transferred 😂
This is some truly dumb s..t. Your comparing transfering games from one drive to another to actual games using the storage? Well done you are genius. I don't understand why Sony and MS just don't employ you for their technical SSD stuff?
 
Jun 1, 2016
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This is some truly dumb s..t. Your comparing transfering games from one drive to another to actual games using the storage? Well done you are genius. I don't understand why Sony and MS just don't employ you for their technical SSD stuff?
Transfer speed is related. Can't transfer faster than write of one and read of other.
 
May 19, 2021
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Well it’s just paper specs war, like 12 vs 10tf, means nothing in the end since all games will be optimized to run as well as they can on each box. It’s just good to know a slower drive will work too even if it’s not 100% identical to the internal drive..
Yep, people are all too quick to forget what we come to these platforms for.
 

Kuranghi

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I care more about what Mrs. Miggins up the street is having for dinner than a storage upgrade, I'd just uninstall some games, how many do you people play at once?!?? I think its cause I'm not an MP guy, so there aren't many games I dip into constantly and need them there.
Come on... Be honest who actually read all that 😂😂😂

I definitely promise I read it all, the part where he talks about ancient aliens was wild.
 
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