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Sony Clarifies Mark Cerny's Role With The Last Guardian

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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One, people should download the high quality video from Gameryside. Game looks absolutely gorgeous, streaming quality doesn't do it justice.

Two, people should take a look at how the game looked like on the PS3 back in 2010. Super fuzzy, dirty, blurry, horribly jagged shadows and vegetation, used dithering instead of true transparencies. All of this is gone in the PS4 game. IQ is pristine. And the framerate was sped up in these trailers, by all accounts in ran terribly, and you can see that in the videos that came with the ICO/SotC collection.

And three, obviously both versions of the game resemble each other since they're still the same game and share the same aesthetic and art design, but it's not just performance and image quality upgrades that are in play here.




Trico has many more feathers, all of them animate, has more whiskers, more fur. It's a much more accomplished character model.

The game also has better lighting, shadowing and is using SSAO. People already posted my gifs, but really in motion this thing is absolutely outstanding.


This game is really astounding... The "Team ICO" games are incredibly well animated, emotional, awe inspiring experiences.
 

KieranD

Banned
May 4, 2015
127
0
0
When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.
 

Apathy

Member
Nov 24, 2013
12,472
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Wow. Your excellent and well-thought out arguments have convinced me that I was wrong.

Why don't you try reading the post that you are quoting?

The people developing The Last Guardian are capable of much more than Yooka-Laylee people. The reason why I expected better graphics is because the PS3 version looked VERY good. I expected that to stay true with the PS4 version. I am finding it strange that people here are acting as the graphics cannot be improved because this is "Ueda's vision", as if they know what that means. As far as I am concerned, his original vision was a game with some of the best graphics on its hardware. Also, team size is clearly irrelevant, just look at The Tomorrow Children.

Is that all?

The problem is you never saw the ps3 version. That original trailer was not how it ran. The only people that ever saw the ps3 version running were at Sony and a handful of journalist that saw it at that e3. They are the only ones that could say anything and they haven't.
 

piccio_ssl

Member
Nov 30, 2014
2,632
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410
When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

we?
 

rpg_fan

Member
Nov 2, 2014
608
0
0
SW Missouri
When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

Have you played the older games? The team ico games are about art, mood and emotion. Never about cutting edge graphics.

Seriously guys, the games community has been asking for non-AAA games for the last few years, why crap on them as they appear?
 

Skux

Member
Aug 28, 2014
9,903
8
430
It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

No one thought this was a AAA title, even all those years ago.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
19,032
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The reason why I expected better graphics is because the PS3 version looked VERY good

Translated: "I refuse to listen/believe that this game ran very badly on PS3 lacking features and effects outside the non interactive trailer I saw, a trailer which has been surpassed graphically, animation, and physics wise by the 2015 gamplay trailer they just showed".
 

Handy Fake

Member
Mar 2, 2014
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When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

*checks post history*

*carries on*
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Mar 12, 2015
8,911
0
0
One, people should download the high quality video from Gameryside. Game looks absolutely gorgeous, streaming quality doesn't do it justice.

Two, people should take a look at how the game looked like on the PS3 back in 2010. Super fuzzy, dirty, blurry, horribly jagged shadows and vegetation, used dithering instead of true transparencies. All of this is gone in the PS4 game. IQ is pristine. And the framerate was sped up in these trailers, by all accounts in ran terribly, and you can see that in the videos that came with the ICO/SotC collection.

And three, obviously both versions of the game resemble each other since they're still the same game and share the same aesthetic and art design, but it's not just performance and image quality upgrades that are in play here.


http://images.gamersyde.com/image_the_last_guardian-28646-1520_0001.jpg

Trico has many more feathers, all of them animate, has more whiskers, more fur. It's a much more accomplished character model.

The game also has better lighting, shadowing and is using SSAO. People already posted my gifs, but really in motion this thing is absolutely outstanding.

http://i.imgur.com/9N276Xo.gi


You are right that it looks noticeably better from the PS3 version but the PS3 version was incredible relative to its hardware (yes, I know it ran like shit). I was expecting the PS4 version to be the same.
 

Overside

Banned
Dec 28, 2014
3,060
0
0
This should be blatantly obvious, taking such a cpu heavy ps3 game (and for once, not cpu heavy as in doing the work of the underpowered rsx, but actual cpu work) and converting it from the cell to an 8 core jaguar and compute shaders must be quite the hair puller.

Cerney's consultation must be a god send.

It looked good on PS3 for its time.

That has nothing to do with being a AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA title. Looking good graphically, and/or being a game of exceptional quality has had nothing to do with the AAA designator in well over a decade.

Yeah, it looked AAA easily.

If you listen real closely on quiet nights, you can sometimes hear the giggles, and slaps of high fives from marketing teams carried on the wind.
 

disappeared

Banned
Sep 14, 2006
26,832
3
1,120
It's reassuring to see that Ueda, Yoshida, Cerny, and other staff managed to cooperate and overcome a lot of obstacles to keep TLG going. Let's face it, if this game had come from any other studio, under any other publisher, it likely would have been shitcanned years ago.
 

3rdamention

Member
Oct 27, 2006
7,996
2
1,005
When he's done, he should sit down and start up Knack 2. I need me some more Knack!

Since Sony is cozy with Activision now, they should start ironing out bringing Crash back to PlayStation. Then get Cerny and the Knack team on it.
 

farisr

Member
Nov 5, 2011
10,188
1
635
I think it's the art style and the bright lighting/fog shown so far for the ps4 version that's throwing people off the most.

Also, it is entirely Sony's fault for showing off a version that wasn't possible on ps3 before. Because of that, I honestly don't blame people for thinking this looks like a simple ps4 port of a last-gen game, as what they last saw of this last-gen version, was really false advertising of what the previous system was capable of.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Mar 12, 2015
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What makes you say this? Things like shadows, AA, textures and AF can all be improved without changing the vision of the game.

It's not Ueda's vision. Ueda's vision does not allow for improved shadows, AA, textures and AF. /s
Yes, I am annoyed by that answer.
 

ErichWK

Member
Dec 11, 2012
1,540
0
0
When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

Read the previous posts about how the The Last Guardian could never run on PS3 and that is why it looks the same, and by looking at your post history, going into a bunch of thread to knock down the PS4 and only praise the Xbone, will get old.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Aug 6, 2013
2,450
0
410
California
You are right that it looks noticeably better from the PS3 version but the PS3 version was incredible relative to its hardware (yes, I know it ran like shit). I was expecting the PS4 version to be the same.

Following that train of logic, you were expecting to see something that could never run well enough on the PS4 to actually ship, and for the game to be rescheduled for the PS5. How is that an improvement over what's actually happening?
 

Caronte

Member
Aug 6, 2013
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0
0
When it appeared, i thought to myself, Sony must have pressed play on the wrong Last Guardian trailer!

It looked like it was six years ago same scene and graphics haha. Last Guardian will release but its not going to be the big triple AAA title we expected it to be.

Speak for yourself.
 

kurahador

Member
Mar 29, 2011
14,413
2
0
What makes you say this? Things like shadows, AA, textures and AF can all be improved without changing the vision of the game.

Don't you think those things will be taxing to the system? We're still seeing some minor animation jank in the E3 demo, yet you want them to focus on improving the graphic instead?

If Ueda's vision is about nailing the creature's aspect of the game, then the team will be focusing on the creature's aspect of the game.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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It's not Ueda's vision. Ueda's vision does not allow for improved shadows, AA, textures and AF. /s
Yes, I am annoyed by that answer.

So are you saying they should remove some improved effects he had in this latest gameplay trailer then :p? I hope not ;).
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Mar 12, 2015
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Following that train of logic, you were expecting to see something that could never run well enough on the PS4 to actually ship, and for the game to be rescheduled for the PS5. How is that an improvement over what's actually happening?

If it wasn't obvious, I meant that I was expecting something that took advantage of the PS4's hardware but didn't run like shit.
 

Handy Fake

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Mar 2, 2014
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If it was obvious, I meant that I was expecting something that took advantage of the PS4's hardware but didn't run like shit.

It obviously is taking advantage of the PS4 hardware as it looks better and doesn't run like shit. You're on a hiding to nothing here.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Aug 24, 2010
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So essentially the delay was the technical limitations of the PS3 and massive restructuring during development. It's nice that they have come out and told us, as they didn't have to.
 

J-Skee

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May 31, 2014
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I can't believe people are writing this off. Just because it's using the same art style doesn't make it look worse. This game is a technical achievement & then some. Honestly, I don't know how they would have pulled this off on the PS3. The AI alone must be a headache to get right.
 

ANDS

Member
Jan 18, 2012
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720

You are right that it looks noticeably better from the PS3 version but the PS3 version was incredible relative to its hardware (yes, I know it ran like shit). I was expecting the PS4 version to be the same.

If it was obvious, I meant that I was expecting something that took advantage of the PS4's hardware but didn't run like shit.

There's not some magic "Next Gen" switch that developers hit on their game engines. Come on now. The game has been in constant development, and will definitely take advantage of the PS4, but to assume that it's just going to magically "look better" whatever the hell that means, is silly.
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Mar 12, 2015
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There's not some magic "Next Gen" switch that developers hit on their game engines. Come on now. The game has been in constant development, and will definitely take advantage of the PS4, but to assume that it's just going to magically "look better" whatever the hell that means, is silly.

They've spent at least 3 years rebuilding the entire game for PS4. If you call that a magic next gen switch, then I did expect them to hit that.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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If it was obvious, I meant that I was expecting something that took advantage of the PS4's hardware but didn't run like shit.

It was not obvious and this is taking advantage of the HW else it would run even worse than it did before. Transitioning from an array of SPU's at 3.2 GHz to AVX units running at half the frequency (and it remains to be seen if they can match the per clock performance of the SPE's with dedicated high speed local storage) means that they are quite likely doing a whole bit of work with GPU compute and pushing the PS4 HW.

A gameplay trailer is showing with better effects, geometric complexity, and IQ than a non-interactive trailer custom made to run smoothly and including effects and features the game could not use when running on a PS3 even at a supposedly low frame rate. Yet, this game almost a year from release is not pushing the PS4...
 

KieranD

Banned
May 4, 2015
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Read the previous posts about how the The Last Guardian could never run on PS3 and that is why it looks the same, and by looking at your post history, going into a bunch of thread to knock down the PS4 and only praise the Xbone, will get old.

Uncharted and Horizon graphics on PS4 looked great why can't i have an opinion i expected better graphics for the Last Guardian too?

I have an xbox one and PS4 i post when i have something to say you don't know me don't assume to know me.
 

jimforspeed

Neo Member
May 27, 2013
186
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But dis guy made dat shit Knack lol!!1!!!

Seriously, looking at the negative comments (the absurd ones, not the not-my-cup-of-tea ones) there are times I believe gamers (as a whole) don't deserve these games.

Hell, there were even absurd comments about Cerny when the news first came out, like he's one of the most badass industry figures of the last two decades and he still got shit from "gamers" around the world.
 

ANDS

Member
Jan 18, 2012
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They've spent at least 3 years rebuilding the entire game for PS4. If you call that a magic next gen switch, then I did expect them to hit that.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

How about this: How SHOULD the game look? Since it obviously doesn't look like it belongs on the PS4, then you should be able to tell us why.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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Uncharted and Horizon graphics on PS4 looked great why can't i have an opinion i expected better graphics for the Last Guardian too?

I have an xbox one and PS4 i post when i have something to say you don't know me don't assume to know me.

Are you concerned that it does not look good enough or you wanted to compare their work with second generation PS4 engines created by two of the most technically capable studios working on PS4 (one of which, ND, I could reasonably claim to be the best video game studio in the world) just to claim it to be technically lacking? At least you are not making tons of gameplay >>>> graphics posts too ;).
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
6,851
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It's not Ueda's vision. Ueda's vision does not allow for improved shadows, AA, textures and AF. /s
Yes, I am annoyed by that answer.
Yep, it's not like the art style has reached its graphical peak, like say, the Dragon Ball games. There is still room to improve.

Don't you think those things will be taxing to the system? We're still seeing some minor animation jank in the E3 demo, yet you want them to focus on improving the graphic instead?

If Ueda's vision is about nailing the creature's aspect of the game, then the team will be focusing on the creature's aspect of the game.
Did you by any chance read the post I was replying to or misquoted me? Your post is irrelevant to mine. I'm simply saying the visuals can still be improved and the art style is not preventing any sort of improvements.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Aug 24, 2010
12,116
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810
Actually the Team ICO games were very advanced for their time at release. Ico's cloth physics for instance.

People who're saying that the game "doesn't look next gen enough" really need to read this.



This game is doing a shit ton of things that the ps3 couldn't handle, like the movement of the bird's feathers as well as any foliage. At a higher IQ at that, and as others mentioned, the AI of Trico itself seems to be very complex.

I don't get how you can be so wrong about AC: Unity, but so right about literally everything else :)
 

Walpurgis

Banned
Mar 12, 2015
8,911
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At this point, I think I have laid down my arguments pretty well and am stuck repeating myself and answering shitposts.The Last Guardian was running on upspecced PS3 but looked absolutely incredible for its time. It's obvious that this upspecced PS3 was not comparable to the PS4 in terms of hardware and much closer to the PS3. For some reason, I am the only one in this thread that expected The Last Guardian to push the PS4's hardware and look absolutely incredible for its release too, as in, comparable to other first party titles (while having an acceptable frame rate - sad that I have to mention that, but people without arguments are keen to nitpicking). So far, no one has convinced me of a reasonable explanation for the game to disappear for 3 years, be completely rebuilt for the PS4 and end up looking like this (not that it's ugly, mind you). If anyone has anything more to say to me, read my other posts in this thread and you might find what I think.
 

DecoyOctopus

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Dec 13, 2012
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I have no idea what people mean when they say "I expected better graphics"?

To me it sounds like some of you just want a different art style. The art style is not going to change just because it's a PS4 game now.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
19,032
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At this point, I think I have laid down my arguments pretty well and am stuck repeating myself and answering shitposts.The Last Guardian was running on upspecced PS3 but looked absolutely incredible for its time. It's obvious that this upspecced PS3 was not comparable to the PS4 in terms of hardware and much closer to the PS3. For some reason, I am the only one in this thread that expected The Last Guardian to push the PS4's hardware and look absolutely incredible for its release too, as in, comparable to other first party titles (while having an acceptable frame rate - sad that I have to mention that, but people without arguments are keen to nitpicking). So far, no one has convinced me of a reasonable explanation for the game to disappear for 3 years, be completely rebuilt for the PS4 and end up looking like this (not that it's ugly, mind you). If anyone has anything more to say to me, read my other posts in this thread and you might find what I think.

PS3 devkits are not up-specced, they have more RAM to help with debugging and profiling (which would be really nice to have on iOS...). What has been claimed was essentially that in order to make that trailer they enabled features and effects which did not even run on PS3 at a reduced framerate, essentially recorded the output frame by frame, and created a trailer (not that uncommon for games early in development). On top of that, we do see clearly improved graphics in what has been claimed to be realtime recorded gameplay with the game running at the same framerate you see it running at in the videos.
 

raviolico

Member
Sep 5, 2004
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At this point, I think I have laid down my arguments pretty well and am stuck repeating myself and answering shitposts.The Last Guardian was running on upspecced PS3 but looked absolutely incredible for its time. It's obvious that this upspecced PS3 was not comparable to the PS4 in terms of hardware and much closer to the PS3. For some reason, I am the only one in this thread that expected The Last Guardian to push the PS4's hardware and look absolutely incredible for its release too, as in, comparable to other first party titles (while having an acceptable frame rate - sad that I have to mention that, but people without arguments are keen to nitpicking). So far, no one has convinced me of a reasonable explanation for the game to disappear for 3 years, be completely rebuilt for the PS4 and end up looking like this (not that it's ugly, mind you). If anyone has anything more to say to me, read my other posts in this thread and you might find what I think.

But it looks absolutely incredible. I´m more impressed by it`s presentation (the culmination of raw tech AND art) than Horizon.
We are dancing on highly subjective terrain here anyway.