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Sony Controller to Be Named "Move." Bye bye Gem? truly outrageous

Lonely1

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Jul 20, 2009
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gofreak said:
Maybe it's just me but I think it would be a nightmare controlling the camera + aiming with an analog stick and pointing, respectively, on the same hand. At least doing so simultaneously.
Not simultaneously. I'm talking specifically about Uncharted. While plataforming, you could control the camera with the analog, while shooting (aiming) you control it with the pointer. It would work great imo.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Lonely1 said:
Not simultaneously. I'm talking specifically about Uncharted. While plataforming, you could control the camera with the analog, while shooting (aiming) you control it with the pointer. It would work great imo.
I guess...but you could pretty much do the same with a button toggle on the Arc. Hold button and move to control camera, release to point and shoot. Maybe not as ideal but in the context you're talking about - discrete camera and shooting control in a TPS - it'd work...I think...

Anyway, I'll just get sad thinking about UC2 with it. Since apparently they won't be patching in support.
 

Massa

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Jan 16, 2009
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bernardobri said:
Man, why they have to put so many interesting panels at the same time? I will have to divide in two so I can go to Amy Henning's panel and this one :(
You should go to Amy Hennig's, anything interesting from the controller panel will be up on the internet within minutes.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Jul 20, 2009
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gofreak said:
I guess...but you could pretty much do the same with a button toggle on the Arc. Hold button and move to control camera, release to point and shoot. Maybe not as ideal but in the context you're talking about - discrete camera and shooting control in a TPS - it'd work...I think...

Anyway, I'll just get sad thinking about UC2 with it. Since apparently they won't be patching in support.
It can probably work, but an analog would be better. I can't think of a Wii game that does the third person, user controlled, camera very good though. Mostly a recenter the camera button.
 

noah111

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anonymousAversa said:
yeah, its in one of the earlier pages, some people discussed it
I noticed that later (I was banned during that time so I missed it). That actually makes me like the Arc code name even more tbh. :lol

I really hope they don't go with some stupid name in the end.. if we don't know at GDC we will at E3.
 

Trailblaster

Banned
Aug 5, 2009
379
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TTP said:
Nice summary, but I doubt the nunchuck has another set of [] ^ X O buttons. Wouldn't it be redundant and confusing to have two sets of the very same buttons?
"Press X to jump" - er, wait... which one?

I bet it has a d-pad instead.
Most likely.

I also wonder how much the whole thing could cost. If Sony approaches Arc like a new hardware platform and not just as an accessory. They 'could' sell it at cost or very small profit and still offer it at a reasonable price.

Sony's and Nintendo's motion controlers both come in three parts.
Nintendo: Wiimote + Sensor bar + optional nunchuck.
Sony: Arc + PSeye + optional Dualshock/PSnunchuck.

On the surface Sony's motion control solution seem very costly, But that may or maynot be the case.

The wiimote is probably the most costly part of Nintendo's setup mosty due to the camera inside the Wiimote, while Arc should be the cheapest part of Sony's setup. Arc and the Wiimote both use blutooth, tilt sensors, gyro's and a rumble motor. Besides the LED light and ball the Arc should cost less to manufactor then a standard DS3. Although the Arc should be cheaper to produce then a Wiimote, If Sony want it to catch on they can't afford to sell it at a huge profit like Nintendo dose the Wiimote.

The Wii's sensor bar seems to be just an array of LED lights and seems to be the lest costly of Nintnedo setup. Where as the PSeye could be the most exspensive. Sony currently sells the PSeye at nice mark up for the sake of profit. But just like the Arc, Sony should ether cut the price or Bundle the Eye+Arc and sell it at cost if they want it to succeed.

Every PS3 owner has to have at lest one DS3 or sixaxis. While allowing players to hold a standard controller in one hand may not seem like the most elegant solution it allows for a cheap one. The Wii use a very cheap wired nunchuck while a Sony nunchuck would most likely have to be a bluetooth device making it a lot more exspensive.

My guess is Sony will sell the Arc and PSeye bundled for or near cost, while selling an optional nunchuck device at a nice profit.
Arc = $34.99
Playstation Eye = $39.99
Arc+PSeye+ Minigame collection = 59.99
PS Nunchuck = 29.99

But i guess we'll know for sure at E3
 

patsu

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Jun 19, 2005
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The nunchuck only has 2 out of the 4 []x^O buttons. It may be a separate controller altogether, to replace DS3.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Septimus said:
I, for one, hope the nunchuck is not optional. Pack that shit in with every Arc.
For development purposes it'll be 'standard' without them having to pack it in. A developer can make a game supporting Arc + nunchuck knowing everyone can at least use a DS3 as a nunchuck.

It'd be great if Sony packed it in with every Arc without a increase in price, but I don't think that's likely. If it were to increase the price that could have its own negative effects.
 

Man

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Sep 27, 2009
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Trailblaster said:
The wiimote is probably the most costly part of Nintendo's setup mosty due to the camera inside the Wiimote, while Arc should be the cheapest part of Sony's setup. Arc and the Wiimote both use blutooth, tilt sensors, gyro's and a rumble motor. Besides the LED light and ball the Arc should cost less to manufactor then a standard DS3. Although the Arc should be cheaper to produce then a Wiimote
I don't think so. The Arc has the same number of gyro's and acc.meters as a Wiimote + Motionplus combined. The Arc also has a rechargeable battery. I'm not sure if there's much difference in pricing between a multi-led (& multicolor) sphere compared to a monochrome camera either to begin with.
 

noah111

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Trailblaster said:
Most likely.

I also wonder how much the whole thing could cost. If Sony approaches Arc like a new hardware platform and not just as an accessory. They 'could' sell it at cost or very small profit and still offer it at a reasonable price.

But i guess we'll know for sure at E3
I think they can pack it all in for a reasonable price, definitely below $100 for the PS Eye, Arc and nunchuck. I hope a single Arc costs less than $40 though.

Septimus said:
I, for one, hope the nunchuck is not optional. Pack that shit in with every Arc.
Why? If the nunchuck and the DS3 serve the same purpose and can function the same why not make it optional?

Some people will be fine using their DS3 if it means saving a decent amount of money..
 

SolidSnakex

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Sentry said:
Why? If the nunchuck and the DS3 serve the same purpose and can function the same why not make it optional?

Some people will be fine using their DS3 if it means saving a decent amount of money..
Because that's not going to work for most people. The DS3 isn't a controller that was made to be held in one hand. Yes, you can do it if you have to, but it wasn't designed to be played like that. Put it like this, if the Arc ships without that nunchuk then it's DOA.
 

CrayzeeCarl

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If the nunchuck is indeed wireless, does this mean it will be impossible to have 4-player games using the wand + nunchuck (bluetooth is limited to 8 devices, including the host, so the max # of "controllers" is 7)?

Do you think 4-player games will be limited to arc-only (no nunchuck) or will Sony use some custom wireless interface to connect each arc to its nunchuck, thus only needing 4 "slots" for four arc+nunchucks?

Can the PSEye even handle four arc inputs at once?

Is it even practical to have four people playing an arc-game at the same time?
 

Man

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CrayzeeCarl said:
Can the PSEye even handle four arc inputs at once?
Yes it can. If the Nunchuck is wireless though you will only be able to use 4x Arc + 3x Nunchucks at the same time (7 open bluetooth channels).
 

noah111

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SolidSnakex said:
Because that's not going to work for most people. The DS3 isn't a controller that was made to be held in one hand. Yes, you can do it if you have to, but it wasn't designed to be played like that. Put it like this, if the Arc ships without that nunchuk then it's DOA.
Of course they will ship together, come on. If a nunchuck exists there is no way they won't come in a bundle option, what i'm saying is also sell the Arc standalone for people who wouldn't mind using the SXIXAXIS/DS3. There are people out there who can use it just fine like that. If I have to spend $50-60 on that bundle when I could rather spend $30-40, why not?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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The processing load for 4 arcs with the camera won't be an issue. I'm sure they've budgetted for at least 4 simultaneously.

The bluetooth question in an interesting one. I guess they could make the arc itself a seperate bluetooth hub...so that the nunchuck could talk to the Arc, and then it relays everything to the console. But that may raise its own problems.

I imagine most Arc local multiplayer games (e.g. of the party/'family' variety) will just use the Arc anyway though...
 

cakefoo

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From PushSquare:
We’ve been led to believe that developers of the Playstation Motion Controller have received a wireless nunchuck component in addition to the “wand-like” device Sony has already shown. Our source, who wishes to remain un-named, has backed up claims made by PSUni, that Sony are to include a wireless nunchuck as part of their motion control solution.

Apparently the nunchucks feature an analogue stick and the typical Playstation shoulder buttons.
I hope their source isn't a junior member at GAF.
 

noah111

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I love how they say 'claims made by PSUni' which is simply a link and a quite to a GAF posting, lol. Also read something about it not being called Arc, just hope it isn't 'Gem'.
 

yencid

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The GEM is the the dildo with the ball at the top and the ARC is the nunchuck.
Calling it now.
 

noah111

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yencid said:
The GEM is the the dildo with the ball at the top and the ARC is the nunchuck.
Calling it now.
Interesting.. probably not, but nice theory. I could live wit that though.
 

cakefoo

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Sentry said:
I love how they say 'claims made by PSUni' which is simply a link and a quite to a GAF posting, lol.
Yeah... better to lead people to think it came from PSUni than someone at GAF nobody knows.
 

KAL2006

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OK for people who are saying The Arc remote should have an option to be used with one half of a DualShock3 or a Nunchuck. Is the dualshock trackable like a wiimote Nunchuck. As I want the Arc Nunchuck to have its own motion controls, for example I want to play a sword and sheild character and use the Nunchuck as a sheild (see sony tech demo of guy demoing with 2 Arc remotes). So if the Nunchuck can be replaced with one half of a DuaslShock3 then the chances of motion controls for the Nunchuck would be zero, it would be great if the Nunchuck had it's own disco ball (similar to Arc remote) for tracking.

So to conclude, forget about having an option to use one half of DS3 controller as a Nunchuck, and release a Nunchuck which has the same motion capabilities as the Arc remote for even crazier controls (e.g dual wield and etc).
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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KAL2006 said:
OK for people who are saying The Arc remote should have an option to be used with one half of a DualShock3 or a Nunchuck. Is the dualshock trackable like a wiimote Nunchuck. As I want the Arc Nunchuck to have its own motion controls, for example I want to play a sword and sheild character and use the Nunchuck as a sheild (see sony tech demo of guy demoing with 2 Arc remotes). So if the Nunchuck can be replaced with one half of a DuaslShock3 then the chances of motion controls for the Nunchuck would be zero, it would be great if the Nunchuck had it's own disco ball (similar to Arc remote) for tracking.

So to conclude, forget about having an option to use one half of DS3 controller as a Nunchuck, and release a Nunchuck which has the same motion capabilities as the Arc remote for even crazier controls (e.g dual wield and etc).
A DS3 has all the motion sensing capability of a wii nunchuck (if not a bit better perhaps - i vaguely recall some people saying its sensors are better). So any official wireless nunchuck would have the same.

This isn't the same ability that the Arc (or wiimote) has, though. The wii nunchuck and DS3 motion capabilities are based purely on internal motion sensors.
 

poppabk

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gofreak said:
A DS3 has all the motion sensing capability of a wii nunchuck (if not a bit better perhaps - i vaguely recall some people saying its sensors are better). So any official wireless nunchuck would have the same.

This isn't the same ability that the Arc (or wiimote) has, though. The wii nunchuck and DS3 motion capabilities are based purely on internal motion sensors.
I think his point was that you aren't going to be holding a DS3 in one hand and swinging it around, so if using the DS3 is an optional controller method, the Sony 'nunchucks' motion controls won't be utilized very much.
Of course the wii nunchuck has pretty bad motion detection and is not usable for much more than detecting that the nunchuck is being shuck in some kind of indeterminate direction, it certainly isn't good enough for position tracking.
 
Dec 22, 2008
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cakefoo said:
From PushSquare:
I hope their source isn't a junior member at GAF.
Me too.

Quizzed my friend over the weekend (and trying to get some pictures, fingers crossed).

He seems to say that the nunchuk had L1 and L2 triggers and a full either d-pad or array of 4 buttons, he wasn't massively clear. The PSDildo had two or four buttons on top and a trigger underneath that was just called T, plus love nubbin on top. I should make sure I quiz people before we start drinking.

I'm working on getting some pictures so we'll see, then I'll clear it up. Apparently it is massively accurate.

[Edit] Also if websites trawling GAF for info desperately need those hits, just leave my name out of it. We know who you are...
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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gofreak said:
A DS3 has all the motion sensing capability of a wii nunchuck (if not a bit better perhaps - i vaguely recall some people saying its sensors are better). So any official wireless nunchuck would have the same.

This isn't the same ability that the Arc (or wiimote) has, though. The wii nunchuck and DS3 motion capabilities are based purely on internal motion sensors.
I think that the Wii Remote (and Nunchuck too... I think) has only a 3-axis accelerometer chip while the Sixaxis also uses a one axis gyroscope sensor on top of the accelerometers.

(so, basically...)

Wii Remote: 3-axis accelerometer sensor

SIXAXIS and DS3: 3-axis accelerometer sensor + 1-axis gyroscope sensor

Wii Motion+ (add-on only): 3-axis gyroscope sensor

PS Wand/ARC: 3-axis accelerometer sensor + 3-axis gyroscope sensor
 
Oct 12, 2009
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Why are people shitting on the name. I think its pretty good. Stupid internet fanboys think shitting on everything is the way to be cool on the internet!

So, haters, what would you guys call it?
 
Jun 7, 2004
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BurritoBushido said:
. . . what would you guys call it?
Playstation 3-mote or Threemote or Zmote. Arc, Gem...both stupid-sounding names that smell desperate to copy the one-syllable Wii. Then again, I disliked the name, Wii, at first, too. No name would see unanimous love, so it's gonna be how well the marketing pushes it. For the record, I thought that Playstation was a stupid-sounding name, fitting a Playskool product more than a game console when news of it was first broken in gaming mags oh so long ago. I pretty much dislike or am indifferent to every new name for every console, actually. It's only through positive association with games I like and other elements exclusive to the console that I quickly get past the name and even grow to like it.
 

MikeE21286

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MightyHedgehog said:
Playstation 3-mote or Threemote or Zmote.
seriously, these names? Those are all exponentially worse than Arc

I have no names of my own to add
 

noah111

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ichinisan said:
Me too.

Quizzed my friend over the weekend (and trying to get some pictures, fingers crossed).

He seems to say that the nunchuk had L1 and L2 triggers and a full either d-pad or array of 4 buttons, he wasn't massively clear. The PSDildo had two or four buttons on top and a trigger underneath that was just called T, plus love nubbin on top. I should make sure I quiz people before we start drinking.

I'm working on getting some pictures so we'll see, then I'll clear it up. Apparently it is massively accurate.

[Edit] Also if websites trawling GAF for info desperately need those hits, just leave my name out of it. We know who you are...
Awesome, as I suspected basically. It would make more sense to have the d-pad, but who knows. No need for pics btw, GDC is just around the corner. Thanks for the attempt.
 
Aug 6, 2008
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Sentry said:
Awesome, as I suspected basically. It would make more sense to have the d-pad, but who knows. No need for pics btw, GDC is just around the corner. Thanks for the attempt.

not to derail, but when does GDC start?
 

noah111

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anonymousAversa said:
not to derail, but when does GDC start?
March 10th iirc, so only three weeks to go. Sony will be having a PS Mote event so i'm sure we'll see interesting new stuff there (especially as it's geared towards devs).
 

KAL2006

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KAL2006 said:
OK for people who are saying The Arc remote should have an option to be used with one half of a DualShock3 or a Nunchuck. Is the dualshock trackable like a wiimote Nunchuck. As I want the Arc Nunchuck to have its own motion controls, for example I want to play a sword and sheild character and use the Nunchuck as a sheild (see sony tech demo of guy demoing with 2 Arc remotes). So if the Nunchuck can be replaced with one half of a DuaslShock3 then the chances of motion controls for the Nunchuck would be zero, it would be great if the Nunchuck had it's own disco ball (similar to Arc remote) for tracking.

So to conclude, forget about having an option to use one half of DS3 controller as a Nunchuck, and release a Nunchuck which has the same motion capabilities as the Arc remote for even crazier controls (e.g dual wield and etc).
OK to make it more clear of what I'm going on about. Here is a tech demo
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVabmjJUAiQ
In this video you can see the person is controling an avatar, using motion controls for Sword and Sheild. Both Sqord and Sheild are tracked by a Arc remote on each hand. But if there left Arc remote is replaced with a nunchuck, then the sheild wont be tracked properly. Note please dont say "then use 2 Arc remotes like the person on the demo", as that would mean we need to buy 2 arc remotes and also the lack of analog on the Arc remotes means the games will be simple and linear like the tech demo. So in conclusion, we need a Nunchuck with he same capabilities as the Arc remote to have game with tracking of a sword and shield, but at the same time have the freedom to move the avatar using the analog on the Nunchuck.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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TTP said:
Not sure if new (it's today's article anyway) but there you go



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-console-lag-round-two-article

Disclaimer: no, they don't have the Arc in the office and neither have actually tested it first hand.
I find it interesting that Mesmerise lag measures in at 'only' 100-133ms - to me it's quite noticeable, VERY noticeable, at least in some of the demos (I can't honestly recall about the one in their video). In Flare, the lag feels pretty awful.

I really don't think any relationship can be made with Arc though. The processing, the modes used etc. are going to be totally different (and hopefully, in what they do, a f- ton more optimised than the mesmerise stuff). The lower level details about the camera are nice to know, if expectable, though.

I wonder if Arc will use 320x240 @ 120hz or 640x480 at 60hz. One might think that the tradeoff from that big bulb might have been the opportunity to bump down to a lower resolution with faster sampling :lol
 
May 11, 2009
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Wrath2X said:
This thing will bomb so bad :lol
Phew, and there I was thinking we'd have to wait until we have any details about the product before we could make such cretinous and unqualified comments. Cheers man!
 

Inanna

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Jan 9, 2008
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LabouredSubterfuge said:
Phew, and there I was thinking we'd have to wait until we have any details about the product before we could make such cretinous and unqualified comments. Cheers man!
I know.. People said the exact same thing about Wii, look how that turned out. Not saying Arc will be a huge success but people need to stop making such comments before we see Arc in action.
 

patsu

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gofreak said:
I find it interesting that Mesmerise lag measures in at 'only' 100-133ms - to me it's quite noticeable, VERY noticeable, at least in some of the demos (I can't honestly recall about the one in their video). In Flare, the lag feels pretty awful.

I really don't think any relationship can be made with Arc though. The processing, the modes used etc. are going to be totally different (and hopefully, in what they do, a f- ton more optimised than the mesmerise stuff). The lower level details about the camera are nice to know, if expectable, though.

I wonder if Arc will use 320x240 @ 120hz or 640x480 at 60hz. One might think that the tradeoff from that big bulb might have been the opportunity to bump down to a lower resolution with faster sampling :lol
It depends on how they are using the PSEye. If it is only used for sync'ing absolute positioning with the Arc controller's relative positioning, then the lag only tells us how often they can recalibrate the position.

The actual motion tracking will be performed by the internal sensors for say, gesture recognition. Those sensors should be much faster (as in your algo can get more intermediate raw data).

If the PSEye is used for tracking the full motion (like Mesmerize, then the PSEye lag will have more impact. But we have to be sure Mesmerize is optimized though. i.e., the dev may add in some delay to make Mesmerize more relaxing. Best is to measure a time-based game where you have a deadline to move things from point A to B.