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Sony: Disneys decision to cut Spider-Man; Kevin doesn’t have time to work on a non-Disney IP

bitbydeath

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Thought this deserved its own thread away from the speculation.

“We are disappointed, but respect Disney’s decision not to have him continue as a lead producer of our next live action Spider-Man film.”
“We hope this might change in the future, but understand that the many new responsibilities that Disney has given him – including all their newly added Marvel properties – do not allow time for him to work on IP they do not own,” says the statement. “Kevin is terrific and we are grateful for his help and guidance and appreciate the path he has helped put us on, which we will continue.”
 

Pagusas

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Very odd, they already killed/retired their top 2 stars, you’d think extra effort would be given to keeping Spider-Man held up as a “gen 1ish” leader. (Yes I know he came late but you know what I mean)
 

greyshark

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Did they deny the disagreement about financial terms? Hard to believe Feige’s schedule would override the billions of dollars they were. This sounds like Sony spin to me.
 
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GV82

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Sony is Just excited their Shared Spider-Man Movie has made over billion, that Venom Nearly made a Billion, that Spiderverse is the only Spider-man to win an Oscar & their Game did so well they just acquired insomniac games, & signed Miller & Lord to do a Spider-Man TV Universe as well as a Spiderverse 2 and spinoffs. They are going all out

Sony are floating on Web Shaped clouds right now, because they are in a win win situation as far as they are concerned.

Scenario a) Sony gets Spidey back full time, they immediately add him to the Venom sequel Movie & start writing their own new Spider-Man movie as well as the TV shows and announce Spider-man 2 for ps5 , Spiderverse 2they will make all the money, maybe not as much as far from home we will see.

Scenario b) they let him go back home to Disney full time & get a sack full of cash in a big deal, maybe forcing Disney’s hand to buy their movie studio when lots of fans outcry about it.

Scenario c) they continue the shared situation where they make Spidey in the MCU still & have him in their own things, make all the cash by demanding a increase in the shared profits

Kevin won’t be happy about this barrel Sony have him over, but he hasn’t come to his Spidey Senses, he’s decided he doesn’t want to play Sony's game anymore, so told them they can have their web shaped toy back.

Kevin is Just excited about the Fox Characters he just purchased.

So he is probably like “well if I give the audience, Blade & The Fantastic Four and the X-Men, as well as all the others maybe throw in a cameo from Daredevil & The Punisher In 2-3 years time the audience will forgive me for no Spider-Man” they will forget about him.

Don’t Sony have the rights of Kingpin too though? He was in Spiderverse, they could say to Vincent, yo vince wanna Play Kingpin again in a Spider-Man Movie or TV show opposite our Spider-Man? Also continuity does not matter to Sony.

Either way we get more Spider-Man until we get sick of him.
 
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Pagusas

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Sony is afraid Disney will hand over the creative decision to Kathleen Kennedy. She'll probably end up turning Spider-Man into Spider-Them/They.
Did you read Sony's plans for the Amazing Spiderman universe before they axed it for the MCU? Some of that stuff was even worse...
 

VulcanRaven

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That article doesn't really say that Spider-Man won't be part of MCU anymore. Have they confirmed it? It just says that Kevin Feige isn't the lead producer in the next Spider-Man movie.
 
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MayauMiao

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Did you read Sony's plans for the Amazing Spiderman universe before they axed it for the MCU? Some of that stuff was even worse...
Shit happens but don't forget Sony did produce good Spider-Man movies before, and their recent animated one did very well and it was all Sony.
 

Doom85

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Such an obvious spin. Yeah, Disney asking for 50% was too much, but if it's true Disney was only receiving 5% in the current deal than that was also not acceptable so yeah a new deal did need to be made just not for as much as Disney was asking. Regardless, Feige's work schedule had jack shit to do with any of this and this statement will only fool those less informed about the studios and such.
 

NickFire

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That article doesn't really say that Spider-Man won't be part of MCU anymore. Have they confirmed it? It just says that Kevin Feige isn't the lead producer in the next Spider-Man movie.
It basically says just that. They were unable to find agreement on terms to extend the licensing deal, and Marvel will not be producing the next Spider Man movie. Unless something changes, I don't see how Spider Man would have anything to do with the MCU. Disney is not going to allow another company to use its IP without a deal in place for it. Nor will Sony (allow its license to be used).

If this does not change I think I am done with the MCU. The collective movies have made it the best franchise in entertainment during my adult life. But if Spider Man is not getting a followup to the cliff hanger (within the MCU) then I am out, at least for now. There's just nothing left for me personally. Cap is 90, Iron Man is dead, Hulk is a supporting character, Black Widow is dead (prequels aren't moving the needle for me), and Thor is now Natalie Portman. Rest of announced movies generally stink with respect to drumming up excitement for me, and even if they bring X-Men in quickly it just doesn't excite me. I cannot even fathom recasting Wolverine and Prof X. I mean of course I can, but I just don't see myself getting excited for recasting two perfect actors for the roles while the best part of the currently existing MCU (Spidey) story line is washed away, and the focus moves to characters who I never even read about in comics as a kid.
 
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Fbh

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If this allows for Spiderman to be more of his own character instead of Ironman Jr on top of teaming up and/or fighting with Venom in a future movie then I don't necessarily think this is bad,

Such an obvious spin. Yeah, Disney asking for 50% was too much, but if it's true Disney was only receiving 5% in the current deal than that was also not acceptable so yeah a new deal did need to be made just not for as much as Disney was asking. Regardless, Feige's work schedule had jack shit to do with any of this and this statement will only fool those less informed about the studios and such.
From my understanding it wasn't just that 5% though. They also got 100% from all merch which was probably a considerable amount considering how popular Spiderman is, and they also got to use Spiderman "for free" on all non standalone MCU movies (so, for example, despite him having a pretty big role in Infinity War Sony got nothing from that movie).
 
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Trojita

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Such an obvious spin. Yeah, Disney asking for 50% was too much, but if it's true Disney was only receiving 5% in the current deal than that was also not acceptable so yeah a new deal did need to be made just not for as much as Disney was asking. Regardless, Feige's work schedule had jack shit to do with any of this and this statement will only fool those less informed about the studios and such.
The 5% of initial tickets might seem kind of off, and as far as I know unsubstantiated, but there is much more to the overall deal then that.

Merchandise is key. George Lucas knows that. 80's and 90's cartoon producers knew that. Marvel knows that. They own 100% of the merchandising rights for Spider-Man and any movie connected with them is a gigantic commercial for a merchandise bonanza. Recent tickets sales of box office hits are ABSOLUTELY HUGE, but merchandise still reigns supreme as a major money maker. Also home sales aren't what they were.

While Sony made most of the profits off of the Spider-Man affiliated with MCU films, as far as I know they weren't getting any profits from Spider-Man's appearance in the mainline Marvel developed MCU films. The deal was that Sony would get money off their movies and Disney would make fat stacks off of their movies by including Peter Parker. Spider-Man being in Civil War was a huge advertising push for the movie. He is Marvel's most popular super hero of course. Both companies were making fat stacks through this, how should I say? Symbiotic relationship? :messenger_tongue: but now Disney wants an alleged 50% cut now of the profits in the Sony made Spider-Man movies. I would guess Disney wouldn't be open to Sony sharing in major % profits of any MCU film Spider-Man appears in.
 
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Azurro

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Such an obvious spin. Yeah, Disney asking for 50% was too much, but if it's true Disney was only receiving 5% in the current deal than that was also not acceptable so yeah a new deal did need to be made just not for as much as Disney was asking. Regardless, Feige's work schedule had jack shit to do with any of this and this statement will only fool those less informed about the studios and such.
Disney was making 5%, true, but they were getting the merchandise rights, which are worth hundreds of millions. They were doing alright, they just got greedy.
 

TGO

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Maybe they can make a good Spider-Man film now?
I know people love Spidy being in the MCU, and it is cool when he is in it.
But the stand alone films have been shit even compared to Sony's worst efforts.

This was full, Vadar saying he altering the deal.
Except Sony said, Nah not happening.
 
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Damage Inc

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This doesn’t make any sense. Why would they have positioned Spider Man like they did if they were expecting to have to part ways with the character after FFH.

and if Disney didn’t want to make a deal they wouldn’t have offered 50/50. I highly doubt Kevin just didn’t want to do anything more with Spider Man.
 
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Sycomunkee

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explained by bots getting in on the action:

Was this done by Disney, Russia, or some angry fans? Russia has a tendency to fan the outrage flames intentionally on the things American's love or hate and amplify it either way. It even gets down to the point where bots argue with each other.
 
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Trojita

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It's pretty ridiculous just how much people are attached to the MCU that this has turned a bunch of people into raging troglodytes ready to badger and battle Sony at the whims of Disney for a deal the latter tried to greedily alter and then failed at. One of the top trending posts on all of Reddit right now prominently displayed at the top of the homepage is just a post saying
This is bullshit. I won't watch any Spider-Man related material made by Sony going forward. I'm fucking done. We can't have anything nice.

That post only has 12,800 upvotes (not a lot for breaking developing news like this), so why is that the top trending post on reddit and not the actual news?
 
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Sycomunkee

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So it appears to be for only one film until negotiations can continue after that.

Much of today’s news about Spider-Man has mischaracterized recent discussions about Kevin Feige’s involvement in the franchise. We are disappointed, but respect Disney’s decision not to have him continue as a lead producer of our next live action Spider-Man film. We hope this might change in the future, but understand that the many new responsibilities that Disney has given him—including all their newly added Marvel properties—do not allow time for him to work on IP they do not own. Kevin is terrific and we are grateful for his help and guidance and appreciate the path he has helped put us on, which we will continue.
 
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Doom85

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The 5% of initial tickets might seem kind of off, and as far as I know unsubstantiated, but there is much more to the overall deal then that.

Merchandise is key. George Lucas knows that. 80's and 90's cartoon producers knew that. Marvel knows that. They own 100% of the merchandising rights for Spider-Man and any movie connected with them is a gigantic commercial for a merchandise bonanza. Recent tickets sales of box office hits are ABSOLUTELY HUGE, but merchandise still reigns supreme as a major money maker. Also home sales aren't what they were.

While Sony made most of the profits off of the Spider-Man affiliated with MCU films, as far as I know they weren't getting any profits from Spider-Man's appearance in the mainline Marvel developed MCU films. The deal was that Sony would get money off their movies and Disney would make fat stacks off of their movies by including Peter Parker. Spider-Man being in Civil War was a huge advertising push for the movie. He is Marvel's most popular super hero of course. Both companies were making fat stacks through this, how should I say? Symbiotic relationship? :messenger_tongue: but now Disney wants an alleged 50% cut now of the profits in the Sony made Spider-Man movies. I would guess Disney wouldn't be open to Sony sharing in major % profits of any MCU film Spider-Man appears in.
That's fair about the merchandising bit, wasn't aware of that element. I admit though, I really don't think toys/action figures are as relevant or sell as much as they used to and I doubt it's going to get any better as time goes on, but that would start a totally off-topic debate so let's not get into it.

That being said, I think the MCU has proven it's kinda elevated itself beyond "needing" Spidey. Civil War was going to be a massive hit whether he was there or not simply by somewhat being an Avengers 2.5. I'm not saying Spidey's presence didn't help, but I suspect the film would have still made $1 billion+ easily even without Spidey there. Winter Soldier sold a lot more people on Cap as a character, Iron Man 3 had made Tony alone capable of surpassing $1 billion, add in a bunch of the other existing Avengers, and throwing in Ant-man and Black Panther, yeah Civil War was always going to kill it at the BO Spidey or no Spidey.

Hell, in terms of the solo films, Iron Man 3 and (the current king of the BO for the solo MCU films) Black Panther are a good deal above Spidey: Far From Home in the BO, and Far From Home still has to make a few more million to surpass Captain America: Civil War (not really a solo film but I'll include it nevertheless) and Captain Marvel. Even if one still wants to make the argument that Spidey is still the most popular (but based on actual BO numbers, it's Black Panther although I expect people will argue against that due to how butthurt certain people got on how well the film did), it's clear that his popularity doesn't surpass many other Marvel characters' popularity by that much anymore. When a group of characters like Guardians of the Galaxy for fucks' sake, who were like the definition of obscure to non-comic readers, can become a massive hit regardless and with ZERO assistance by other Marvel heroes for the first two GOTG films, it's clear that Spidey certainly helps the MCU but is hardly necessary to keep it going.
 

Xiaoki

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If this allows for Spiderman to be more of his own character instead of Ironman Jr on top of teaming up and/or fighting with Venom in a future movie then I don't necessarily think this is bad
Yeah, but then you watch Venom and throw up in your mouth.
 
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sol_bad

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Maybe they can make a good Spider-Man film now?
I know people love Spidy being in the MCU, and it is cool when he is in it.
But the stand alone films have been shit even compared to Sony's worst efforts.

This was full, Vadar saying he altering the deal.
Except Sony said, Nah not happening.
Opinions and all but you are the minority who think the MCU movies are shit compared to the Sony produced films.
Look at those audience scores.

Spider-man 67%

Spider-Man 2 82%

Spider-Man 3 51%

Amazing Spider-Man 77%

Amazing Spider-Man 2 64%

Homecoming 88%

Far From Home 95%
 
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#Phonepunk#

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IMO, Disney needs Spider Man more than Sony needs the MCU.
pretty much. the MCU is looking long in the tooth at this point. their main arc is over. Iron Man gone, Cap America gone, Black Widow killed herself, Hawkeye always sucked and he's going to be in TV shows.

the whole "MCU is amazing" crowd is high on their own supply. the MCU is good for branding itself but hardly required for financial success. the first Spider-Man (2002) made over a billion dollars when adjusted for inflation and that was ten years before the first Avengers movie when comic films were still niche. the worst performing Sony Spider-Man movie was The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), which still made $700 million dollars and was the 9th highest grossing film of the year. whether fans have confidence or not means nothing. even when the films are "failures" they still generate tons of money. don't see them walking away from that.
 

sol_bad

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Venom was a travesty, worst final fight CG and direction I have ever seen. It wasn't only lame due to the action though, everything about it was terrible. It was funny in a few scenes and that's about it. I'll only see the sequel If my wife wants to.

Now they are making movies about Morbius and Sulver Sable? Like, who cares about them? Morbius is a Spider-Man villain, are they turning him in to another anti-super hero type figure? He makes much more sense in the MCU now that Blade and vampires will be a part of the universe.
 
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Neolombax

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I'm slightly upset because the only Spiderman movie that I thoroughly enjoyed prior to Spidey being part of the MCU was Spiderman 2, with the exception of Into the Spiderverse.

I always thought Sony would focus more on Miles Morales moving forward, and let Marvel do their thing with Peter, seeing as how much of a success Into the Spiderverse was.
 

~Fake

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Opinions and all but you are the minority who think the MCU movies are shit compared to the Sony produced films.
Look at those audience scores.

Spider-Man 2 82%

Far From Home 95%
Spider-Man 2 was IMO the best super hero movie of all times... I really can't believe Far From Home getting better scores. Its a OK movie, if they stop to talk about Avengers/Iron Man every f#cking Spider movie. Thats why Homecoming was terrible for me. Its more like Ironman: Homecoming.
 

#Phonepunk#

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I always thought Sony would focus more on Miles Morales moving forward, and let Marvel do their thing with Peter, seeing as how much of a success Into the Spiderverse was.
Spiderverse was basically a pilot for 5 alternate dimension Spider-Man movies or tv shows. they could just make a Spider-Man MultiUniverse themselves. what, is it so important that dude cries on Thor's shoulder in the next Avengers movie? let's see the Japanese robot Spider-Man tv show.
 
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sol_bad

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Spider-Man 2 was IMO the best super hero movie of all times... I really can't believe Far From Home getting better scores. Its a OK movie, if they stop to talk about Avengers/Iron Man every f#cking Spider movie. Thats why Homecoming was terrible for me. Its more like Ironman: Homecoming.
I can't choose my best super hero film of all time.
It's tied between Spider-Man 2, Into the Spider-Verse, Far From Home, The Dark Knight, Infinity War and Engame.
HAH
 

~Fake

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I can't choose my best super hero film of all time.
It's tied between Spider-Man 2, Into the Spider-Verse, Far From Home, The Dark Knight, Infinity War and Engame.
HAH
Dark Knight was a great movie indeed. Endgame not that much... The first Avengers was the best of all imo. Of course, endgame was a amazing movie and close the series with golden key, but still no match for Spider-Man vs Dr.Octopus.
 
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sol_bad

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Dark Knight was a great movie indeed. Endgame not that much... The first Avengers was the best of all imo. Of course, endgame was a amazing movie and close the series with golden key, but still no match for Spider-Man vs Dr.Octopus.
I forgot to mention Days of Future Past, also a gerat film for me.
^_^
 
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PrCat88

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I have no love for Sony, but I applaud their clever business practices. They separately signed on Tom Holland for more films than the appearances Disney negotiated for. And after the success of Venom and the Academy Award they nabbed for Spider-verse there was no way they were going to give Disney more of the profits; not when Disney already have their fingers on all the Fox owned properties. So theoretically they can still continue Tom Holland in a new Spider-man solo film with Homecoming/Far From Home director Jon Watts (who also has a contract for a third Spider-man film if they take him up on it). Sony still can namedrop Marvel characters and include characters from their own films like Tom Hardy's Venom, Woody Harrelson's Carnage, or the upcoming Morbius with Jared Leto. It'll be interesting to say the least.

If anyone has to come around on this it'll be Disney. There is no way in hell that Sony will give up their most successful IP.

I'm more interested in the future of the Spider-verse than Marvel Phase 4 anyways.
 
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PrCat88

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Sony is Just excited their Shared Spider-Man Movie has made over billion, that Venom Nearly made a Billion, that Spiderverse is the only Spider-man to win an Oscar....
Actually, Spider-man 2 won an Oscar as well. It was presented to them by none other than.... Mysterio?