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Sony doesn't allow Fallout 4/Skyrim mods on PS4

Autofokus

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And Bethesda is telling you now that they can't deliver on it because of Sony. You know that or you wouldn't be in this thread, until Sony refutes that somehow, to believe it's anyone's fault but Sony's is beyond even willful ignorance.
Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft - every platform holder does have its rules, no matter how dumb, ridiculous and/or senseless they may be. A developer/publisher shouldn't promise something they can't guarantee to make it work. Bethesda should have communicated the problems they're facing (with sony) way, way earlier -- maybe even before the release of the game. Bethesda opted not do and instead of playing the game (with mods), I get to read a press release where they choose to play the blaming game - how exactly does that help me and/or the situation?

I could've made a better buying decision, maybe choose a different platform or maybe even skipping the game altogether (highly unlikely though, I know me ;) ).
 

Tigress

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Dec 2, 2013
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Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft - every platform holder does have its rules, no matter how dumb, ridiculous and/or senseless they may be. A developer/publisher shouldn't promise something they can't guarantee to make it work. Bethesda should have communicated the problems they're facing (with sony) way, way earlier -- maybe even before the release of the game. Bethesda opted not do and instead of playing the game (with mods), I get to read a press release where they choose to play the blaming game - how exactly does that help me and/or the situation?

I could've made a better buying decision, maybe choose a different platform or maybe even skipping the game altogether (highly unlikely though, I know me ;) ).
Ever stop to think Sony at one point might have told Bethesda it would be fine? It makes a lot more sense than Bethesda deciding to make up that it was fine given that at first they said they would like to but it was up to Sony and then made an announce,ent that it was goin to happen. Seems at one point they were waiting for Sony to say it was ok and for some reason (probably Sony giving the go ahead) were under the impression it would happen. Sony might not have realized something about mods (maybe that they wouldn't be qa'd or the requirement to let people mess with their proprietary audio) and when they learned they then balked about it (easier for them to do as it would be Bethesda getting the flack as Bethesda was the one who announced it).

Honestly it makes more sense that Sony is the one that lied rather than Bethesda.
 

Brad Grenz

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Then the question becomes why Sony requires these expensive processes which are not an issue on other platforms.
We've known for a while the custom file formats for audio and textures that PS4 requires has been a sticking point. Bethesda should have known PS4 mods would require PS4 compatible assets. If they assumed Sony was going to make parts of their SDK public for this project, that was foolish of them. If they never considered what it would take to perform asset conversions that's also on them. They can paint that as Sony "blocking" mods, but if that's what's really happening is sounds more like Bethesda not wanting to do the work, irrespective of any promises they made.
 

hodayathink

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Mar 13, 2013
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Ever stop to think Sony at one point might have told Bethesda it would be fine? It makes a lot more sense than Bethesda deciding to make up that it was fine given that at first they said they would like to but it was up to Sony and then made an announce,ent that it was goin to happen. Seems at one point they were waiting for Sony to say it was ok and for some reason (probably Sony giving the go ahead) were under the impression it would happen. Sony might not have realized something about mods (maybe that they wouldn't be qa'd or the requirement to let people mess with their proprietary audio) and when they learned they then balked about it (easier for them to do as it would be Bethesda getting the flack as Bethesda was the one who announced it).

Honestly it makes more sense that Sony is the one that lied rather than Bethesda.
No, it doesn't. Especially since the only side of the story we've heard on this is Bethesda's (and one message from someone who theoretically would be in a position to know something about this without confirmation that that message is actually true, which is what a Bish check for insider info actually does).

I'd still say it's more likely that if the real issue is the QA thing, Bethesda knew about this stipulation the whole time and they either thought Sony would drop it because they thought it was ridiculous, they (Bethesda) would get around it because they're a big publisher, or they figured they could use public outcry to try to pressure Sony to change it (which is what they're doing right now). In which case, I think it's pretty shady that they waited until after the last bit of DLC released to let people know.
 

Tigress

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No, it doesn't. Especially since the only side of the story we've heard on this is Bethesda's (and one message from someone who theoretically would be in a position to know something about this without confirmation that that message is actually true, which is what a Bish check for insider info actually does).

I'd still say it's more likely that if the real issue is the QA thing, Bethesda knew about this stipulation the whole time and they either thought Sony would drop it because they thought it was ridiculous, they (Bethesda) would get around it because they're a big publisher, or they figured they could use public outcry to try to pressure Sony to change it (which is what they're doing right now). In which case, I think it's pretty shady that they waited until after the last bit of DLC released to let people know.
Let me re iterate: the fact that Bethesda at first wouldn't promise it but said it was up to Sony but they would like for it to happen but then later made an announcement that it was going to happen says to me that something happened to make them believe they could promise that when they said it was going to happen (as compared to their previous statement that they would like for it to happen). Most likely Sony saying they could do it. It makes no sense they would make the point of saying they wanted to but it was up to Sony if they were just sure they could get Sony to do it so decided to announce without getting Sony's ok. Why even go through that first step if they just we're going to promise it cause they thought they could convince Sony (but were not told it was ok yet)?

Obviously one side either changed their mind (Sony) or lied (Bethesda) and I'm not sure why you think it is more likely Bethesda. Without any info it could go either way. But I think given what I pointed out the culprit is more likely Sony. And I don't see how it is more likely Bethesda (least nothing you pointed out shows any evidence of why it has to be more likely your scenario) as Sony easily could have thought it was ok and then got more info what was needed (or started having second thoughts) and decided it could not work the way Bethesda wanted it to. Why is that less believable than your scenario?
 

JP

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I really have to question why Bethesda would release such a statement, irrelevant of what's going on in the background it was inevitably going to end up making Bethesda look really shitty.

It's incredibly unprofessional behaviour from them and I really do hope Sony choose not to respond in the same manner.

I can't help but feel that the fact that their Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are always a technical minefield has something to do with what's going on here. I've no idea what their games are like on PC now but the innevitable poor technical state that their games release in on console means that I just don't want their games anymore. They just seem to be developing games in a completely different era to most companies these days.

I say this as somebody who lists Morrowind as one of his all-time favourite gaming experiences. :(
 

LewieP

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Then the question becomes why Sony requires these expensive processes which are not an issue on other platforms.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was management looking at their figure for the cost of the PS3 getting hacked.

Not that this would be particularly rational, but I could see it happening.
 

leeh

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I wouldn't be surprised if it was management looking at their figure for the cost of the PS3 getting hacked.

Not that this would be particularly rational, but I could see it happening.
Then that would be a complete failure of management on Sony's part considering any competent engineer would say that's ridiculous.
 

Wereroku

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Then that would be a complete failure of management on Sony's part considering any competent engineer would say that's ridiculous.
Doubt security concerns had anything to do with it. Most likely they just want to avoid the crashing that can happen with mods. Many other games could do lite QA work and never get to bothered by this policy. The fact that FO4 can run any number of mods together is why this is such a problem and is fairly unique to Bethesda. Technically it's Bethesda that is throwing their hands up and canceling modding on PS4 but Sony is at fault.
 

leeh

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Doubt security concerns had anything to do with it. Most likely they just want to avoid the crashing that can happen with mods. Many other games could do lite QA work and never get to bothered by this policy. The fact that FO4 can run any number of mods together is why this is such a problem and is fairly unique to Bethesda. Technically it's Bethesda that is throwing their hands up and canceling modding on PS4 but Sony is at fault.
I mean surely Sony knew about how mods worked before they approved it to happen in the first place.
 

Wereroku

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I mean surely Sony knew about how mods worked before they approved it to happen in the first place.
I would assume the US side did but maybe the management wasn't as familiar. They are basically at odds with the normal mod process so clearly they can't be that familiar with it or they just don't care.
 

CircleOfFire

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There is absolutely 0% risk of security breach whatsoever from Papyrus, full stop. It is a completely safe scripting language for Fallout 4 and security concerns make no sense whatsoever. Sony was not worried about a security breach because they aren't a stupid company.
Well now I think "absolutely 0%" is a stretch, it's very low (also see Bethesda's past history when it comes to rock solid code). But it's entirely possible someone might identify some flaw in one of the APIs and get the game to run executable code that is stuffed in an asset. Now fingers crossed the PS4 OS can mark regions of memory as not executable to prevent these kinds of shenanigans, but on that side of things I've got no idea what is actually supported.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
May 17, 2013
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I have a question, besides this, what other bad decisions has Sony made recently?
They increased the PS+ price without giving a reason. And more than a few folks are less than happy with the PS4 Pro, or at least are confused by it's presentation.
 

vvise

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This sucks, I skipped PC I was waiting on mods to buy this for my PS4 so I could play on the couch. Now I won't. I doubt my single lost sale will matter, they probably made a boat load of money anyways.
 

Tigress

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Dec 2, 2013
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I have a question, besides this, what other bad decisions has Sony made recently?
Increase the price of PS+ while the games have been not as good for a while (really since PS4 was out) and the quality of connection is still just as bad (Even when xbox went down with a DDR attack at the same time PSN did xbox was up way quicker while PSN took a while to recover. And PSN goes down it takes a while to come back).

Backwards compatibility not even trying, just saying use PSNOW (as if streaming a game is the same as local playback that you can do without paying more if you already own the game). Yes, I realize you can't emulute PS3 on PS4 but they could have either offered to let you play the games on PSNOW if you had the disc (or had the digital version) or at least given you BC on PS1 and PS2 games (nope, even if you bought them *again* on PS3 you still have to buy the *again* to use on PS4). They aren't even trying to compete with xbox anymore and it really shows (or rather it shows they feel they have no competition).

At this point MS has shown a good reason why they are for the gamers now and not Sony. Yes, I realize it's MS and once they get dominance they probably will go back to not being for the players. But maybe this is an argument that one is best to wait on buying either console and see who is losing and choose theirs (as long as they aren't loosing so hard that third parties aren't supporting them which xbox is nowhere close to being).

Oh, let's add in how horrible CS they have to people who have been hacked (there are several horror stories about that). No other company seems to have near as shit a reputation of how Sony will treat you if that happens (we don't care, we got your money even if it was some one else spending it, fuck you. CHargeback and we'll make sure you lose everything you bought with us).

Honestly, Sony is making me feel like a second class citizen while I watch MS kiss up to their customers (xbox fanboys have every reason to gloat right now honestly). It's not a good look for Sony and just cause they are dominant doesn't mean they'll stay that way. For one if they were good at long term looking they still have to sell me the next Playstation. I'm a pretty big PS fanboy (though admittedly not as big a fan of Sony). Last time Sony had me this miffed off they did lose a lot of customers (PS3). I mean I realize I'm just one customer but I am saying if I can get past my PS rose colored glasses to be annoyed at Sony it's probably showing to other people too. Sadly I still want PS4 to do well, I just want Sony to start acting like they want my business again and don't just take it for granted!

The only consolation I have at this point is at least the Japanese games are still more supported on PS (like Persona 5).
 

bender

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Apr 12, 2010
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Bethesda games and Sony platforms continue to be oil and water.

I'm still amazed every time I'm reminded that you can't even undo a preorder on PSN.
I cancelled my Battlefield 1 pre-order after trying and not liking the beta. I just needed to call support. It's not the most convenient method but it is possible.
 

EmeraldSwords

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Bethesda games and Sony platforms continue to be oil and water.



I cancelled my Battlefield 1 pre-order after trying and not liking the beta. I just needed to call support. It's not the most convenient method but it is possible.
Yep. You can call support and have them cancel your pre-order. Would love to be able to do it through the store though.
 

UpUpDownDown

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I don't understand why they just don't fix up some of the better mods and release them.

Why does this have to be an all or nothing argument?
 

AntraxSuicide

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I don't understand why they just don't fix up some of the better mods and release them.

Why does this have to be an all or nothing argument?
Even that would require more work that's only being asked of Bethesda by Sony. Why set up even more employees to curate this stuff (and they already had to do that for the Xbox, right?) for Sony?

I'm a massive Xbox fan (only owned the PS1 and PS2 from Sony), but I'm honestly baffled that Microsoft is the more open company here. I have a lot of reasons that I like my Xbox consoles, but company attitude has rarely been one of them.
 

jeffram

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Then the question becomes why Sony requires these expensive processes which are not an issue on other platforms.
I don't know if you can say "it's not an issue on other platforms" when we only have one platform with two games that allow it considering how many PC mods there are for multi-platform games. It's still an issue on all platforms.
 

Kuosi

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This sucks, I skipped PC I was waiting on mods to buy this for my PS4 so I could play on the couch. Now I won't. I doubt my single lost sale will matter, they probably made a boat load of money anyways.
hook pc to tv, be it with cable or steamlink, get the best experience, consoles were never going to get the good mods anyway(they require skse that's not possible on console)
 

BrianRoyale

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Huh, for some reason (my lack of any info in the area) I thought the mods would be like specific ones chosen by Bethesda, not just any mod. I'd be all for like 10 mods a month or something (like a voted top 10) and just put those out to use.
 

Pantaghana

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Huh, for some reason (my lack of any info in the area) I thought the mods would be like specific ones chosen by Bethesda, not just any mod. I'd be all for like 10 mods a month or something (like a voted top 10) and just put those out to use.
Unless I'm mistaken, mods are curated to prevent copyright infringement, but anything beyond that is too much work.
And no, I don't mean too much work in the "they're lazy" sort of way, I mean genuinely too much work, the time and effort that would have to be spent on that would be unreasonable.
 

UpUpDownDown

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Even that would require more work that's only being asked of Bethesda by Sony. Why set up even more employees to curate this stuff (and they already had to do that for the Xbox, right?) for Sony?

I'm a massive Xbox fan (only owned the PS1 and PS2 from Sony), but I'm honestly baffled that Microsoft is the more open company here. I have a lot of reasons that I like my Xbox consoles, but company attitude has rarely been one of them.
I'm all for less work, but that dosent sound like a good reason.

I literally jump through hoops for a living hahaha.

Huh, for some reason (my lack of any info in the area) I thought the mods would be like specific ones chosen by Bethesda, not just any mod. I'd be all for like 10 mods a month or something (like a voted top 10) and just put those out to use.
This is exactly what I figured mods would be.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
May 17, 2013
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I'm actually getting sick of Sony this gen. Been a fanboy since PS1 but they are losing me.
Same here. They were on top of things early on, but now they're either resting on their laurels or making questionable decisions.
 

Zombie James

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Seriously, the PS3's first two years were irredeemably dreadful but not having Fallout 4 mods and PS+ price matching XBL Gold is somehow the breaking point?
I had someone on my Twitter feed announcing their PSVR preorder cancellation - complete with screencap - about 10 minutes after Bethesda's post went up.
 

DISSESHOWEDO

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I would take every word from Bethesda with a grain of salt!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=577405

Until Sony comes up with an official statement, i'm skeptical about the mods on PS4 and why there is no chance for them ever showing up.

At least to me it sounds very shady for Bethesda to announce mods for PS4 without even checking Sony policies or whatever and then show up with that statement.
 

Tigress

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I had someone on my Twitter feed announcing their PSVR preorder cancellation - complete with screencap - about 10 minutes after Bethesda's post went up.
Well it's what helped finally get me to cancel my psvr order. To be fair I already was going to do so soon as I heard there would be a fallout vr (I am skeptical it would come to ps) but I was having a hard time getting myself to do so. This made it super easy.
 

bengraven

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I have to admit, this is enough to make me switch back to Xbox when I get the money together for a current gen system.
 

Tigress

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They didn't lose you during the Ps3's early days?
They lost me for a while in the PS3 days but I'm such a fan girl I just didn't buy any new console. But got me back when I could find a cheap used PS3 when I wanted a blueray player in 2013.

This has me just as infuriated with Sony as I was with the PS3 (which btw I didn't even expect Sony would hurt from the PS3 announcement as I didn't pay attention to gaming forums then and figured as much as I was upset end probably be fine. Wasn't until I was looking to get one and doing research in what the game library was like did I learn how bad the PS3 did at first).

Except this time I'm more open to going somewhere else (I was more anti ms back then... Wasn't just that I was biased ps). But this time there is a developer I really like the games of that Sony could care less that they have a remarkably worse place to play them. And they don't seem interested in reducing the gap but instead are insisting on making sure they are the worst place to play those games (now it isn't even just the worse running versions but the only one missing a large feature that is on every other version). And judging by Sony's silence, they simply don't give a shit and think this will just blow over.