Sony featured on Watchdog (Thursday 28th, 8pm UK) - theft and "no refunds."

#1
Tomorrow night at 8pm, Watchdog will be featuring a segment on Sony's frankly horrifying terms and conditions relating to digital purchases.

The issue is "no refunds." Now, SCEE aren't the only digital service which insists there are no refunds when you make a purchase, but they're the only service which has basically a zero-tolerance approach, "no refunds" means "no refunds" regardless of the circumstances. Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple and Valve would all refund in extreme situations, but Sony do not, and this situation is somewhat extreme.

>>>

A purchase was made using someone's PSN account. It wasn't made by the person who owns that account however, and indeed, wasn't even made on a console which that person owns, but it debited the account holder's credit card.

Sony acknowledge this to be true, but state that due to their terms and conditions there can be no refunds on digital purchases.

They literally tell him that they know he didn't make the purchase, they're (likely) banning the console responsible, but they're not going to give him a refund anyway because their T&Cs state "no refunds." They're sorry that someone stole his money and handed it to Sony, but it's Sony's money now.

Understandably confused, the account holder phones Sony. This phone call can be listened to here. It's nearly 20 minutes long but some of it is amazing, like around half-way through when the agent on the phone basically admits that Sony's policy is just to treat all their customers as thieves because most of them are probably trying to cheat the system. Generally though, the agent just sounds embarassed that he has to defend Sony when they so obviously are in the wrong. There's nothing he can do, though, nowhere it can be escalated, "no refunds." Terms and conditions.

And then it's just dead end after dead end. Nobody at Sony veering from their policy of "no refunds" even though the account holder has literally had his money stolen. No one at Sony is any help at all and eventually they basically tell him to fuck off.

Honestly, it's just, how can this even be allowed to happen? He's a victim of a crime, and Sony just happily treat him like a criminal.

>>>

That's the briefest summary. You can read for yourself how the story developed over the course of the last six months on rllmuk where the victim here is a member.

I believe there are other similar stories being featured within the same segment, because there are probably thousands of other tales of woe. It could happen to literally any of us and we'll all suffer the same fate as above.

So yeah, Watchdog tomorrow night or for a month afterwards on iPlayer. Should be worth a watch, especially if they managed to find a higher-up at Sony to comment on it because I'm strugging to think of any possible justification for the way this guy was treated so it'll be great to see how they defend it. I'm sure I'll hear some justification before long though, come on GAF, tell us why it's all his own fault!

People in the UK should be able to watch it here after it's aired: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05xctwd
 
#4
That's pretty shitty of Sony. If they know he didn't make the purchases, there's literally no reason to not refund the guy other than pure greed and a complete lack of care or respect for the end consumer.

Pretty scummy.
 
#8
Poor customer, Sony knows he did not make the purchase but they won't refund him. They are beginning to be really shady. I bought a year of PS+ instore and when the subscription expired they charged my CC for another year without my authorization. I didn't know that buying something instore gave them the right to charge my CC a year later for it. Pretty sure it was illegal here too according to QC customers protection law so I complained on their chat thing and they gave me funny wallet money as a refund. Better than nothing I guess.
 
#9
Scary. Oddly enough I've heard of people getting digital refunds for less, though.

Actually had a similar situation where my account was stolen and my PS4 remotely deactivated myself, fortunately they didn't make a purchase, but the time I had with multiple sony customer support guys telling me they couldn't remotely deactivate my account for 6 months(allowing the person who stole my account get off scot free for that period of time) was amazing. Had to get tossed around for quite a bit before I ran into someone who took pitty on my situation.

It really all depends on who's on the phone with you.
 
#10
I had a refund for MKX because of the online region-lock, bought it on US PSN, had to buy again in AU to play it online.

there was another refund, I can't remember now, but I tried two times, and it worked just fine.
 
#11
I think it depends on the rep you ask since I've gotten refunds before so there's obviously something in place to do so.

Shitty situation in the OP though. Sony and MS need to go the Google route and let you refund within a couple hours no questions asked.
 
#13
Sony gave me a full refund a few weeks ago when a PS+ discount on a game didn't go through.

They will do it under circumstances but they can be dicks about it.
 
#16
They do give refunds, just at their discretion. They do not refund everyone that calls them up with a story. I would imagine in this case they should just have spoken to someone else, escalated, explained again, whatever.

It's not cool at all, but they can and do give refunds.
 
#18
That sounds extremely shitty. Hope my account doesn't get hacked one day.

I was refunded once because I forgot my auto renewal for PS+ was on and asked for a refund. Didn't take too long.
 
#21
I can say Sony not once, but THREE TIMES made me a full refund.

One for a DLC for Fallout: New Vegas that didn't worked for my version of the game.

Two for a charge from EA regarding to a FIFA game.

Three for Life is Strange, I can't remember what was the exact problem, but something about the first episode and the season pass.

No problems with them at all... at the contrary.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
#25
They do give refunds, just at their discretion. They do not refund everyone that calls them up with a story. I would imagine in this case they should just have spoken to someone else, escalated, explained again, whatever.

It's not cool at all, but they can and do give refunds.
That doesn't make Sony look any better in this light.

If the guy was a victim of fraud, refund him, simple. I imagine once it goes on Watchdog it'll be sorted as frankly every company going hates to be called out on it.
 
#27
I got a refund for Dark Souls II last year on the PS3; they were able to see that I hadn't gotten an achievement on it and were able to revoke the license.
 
#30
Honestly I once accidentally bought a game that was going to be free on PS Plus a couple days before it updated. I called and explained the situation and they gave a refund without any issue.
 
#31
I've gotten a couple of refunds before. Once I accidentally bought two digital copies of Killzone Mercenary and they refunded to my card. Recently I bought the PS3 season pass for Life is Strange instead of PS4 and they put the money back in my wallet so I could but the right version. Both times they gave me the "no refunds" line but buckled pretty quickly.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
#32
That doesn't make Sony look any better in this light.

If the guy was a victim of fraud, refund him, simple. I imagine once it goes on Watchdog it'll be sorted as frankly every company going hates to be called out on it.
Even if he wasn't the victim of fraud the "no refunds" policy is mega bullshit.

I also have gotten refunds before, but it still sucks that it's "at their discretion" while they can always, depending on the mood, point to their shitty Terms of Service.
 
#33
Maybe I just got lucky but I was able to get a refund on a digital purchase when it went on sale for a significant amount 12 hours after my transaction. Maybe it was because I mentioned I had just bought a Vita so the CS rep took pity on me...
 
#34
A purchase was made using someone's PSN account. It wasn't made by the person who owns that account however, and indeed, wasn't even made on a console which that person owns.

Sony acknowledge this to be true, but state that due to their terms and conditions there can be no refunds on digital purchases.
That part kills me. Sony set the terms and conditions. And they're saying they don't have the power to alter them? Please. *eyeroll*
 
#37
Not defending Sony but I'm pretty sure they do give refunds basrdbon circumstances. Me and a whole bunch of people got Driveclub refunded a couple of weeks after release when that whole fiasco went down. For me, the rep did it I'm about 5 minutes and the money was back in my wallet.
 
#38
Honestly I once accidentally bought a game that was going to be free on PS Plus a couple days before it updated. I called and explained the situation and they gave a refund without any issue.
Okay, everyone's getting refunds and Sony are wonderful.

Except, if Sony so willingly refund people so easily, doesn't it make it even worse that the story in the OP happened? I mean, I'm sure people get refunds now and then but how can they possibly justify not refunding for that?
 
#41
The only solution is to not leave payment details attached to your psn. I only add credit when I'm purchasing a game.

With a digital future refund policies will eventually change, it's a good thing that things like this get put into the spotlight.
 
#43
Absolutely shit "policy".

My friend discovered someone had gotten ahold of his PSN info and made their PS4 "his" primary system. So now his son can't play their digital games without being logged in as him. He called up support and they told him they couldnt do anything, as you're only allowed to change your primary system every 6 months. They pretty much told him it was probably his fault for either having a weak password or email security.

Fuck the digital future when you can't trust the companies to operate on some level of common sense instead of just treating all customers as scammers and thieves.
 
#45
Okay, everyone's getting refunds and Sony are wonderful.

Except, if Sony so willingly refund people so easily, doesn't it make it even worse that the story in the OP happened?
It does. Refunds shouldn't depend on whatever mood the rep you're talking to is in. They don't seem to have a clear cut policy that everyone follows. Hopefully this feature will make them change.
 
#46
Good, companies should be held publicly accountable for shitty policies and decisions. Ive had some dealings with Sony and yeah their customer service is average at best.

Scares me if I had any such account issues or fraud how they would deal with it...

ps3ud0 8)
 
#47
Well, the "no refunds means no refunds" ins't 100% accurate because I got one for DriveClub.
How did you do that? I also requested a refund for Driveclub back in October but no chance.

Meanwhile I've received two refunds from Microsoft for Destiny Digital Guardian Edition and the Witcher 3 plus Expansion Pass bundle.