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Sony FY2014 Q4 (Jan-Mar 2015) Earnings (2.4m PS4 + 400k PS3, 450k PSP+PSV)

1st Course

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Aug 10, 2012
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Devices (the image sensor division) gone from -¥12B loss in FY13 to ¥93B profit in FY14.

Second most profitable division now. Dat iPhone 6 effect.
 

FDC1

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Aug 15, 2012
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Not a great quarter for PS, to be honest, even if we consider the PS4s japanese launch was in the same quarter last year then that still doesn't make this YoY drop anything more than, kind of disappointing. I'm assuming The Order and the Vita can be blamed for the operating loss this quarter.

PS4 sales are expected to increase (interesting that no PS3 or handheld forecast is given) but revenue and operating profit are expected to be flat/slightly down, which the drop in PS3 sales and unfavourable exchange rates are blamed for. Now to be optimistic one could say that Sony adjusted last years PS forecast up a couple times and still beat it, so these results could end up a lot better, but for that to happen I'd say that a price cut and at least one software heavy hitter is needed. OI margin forecasts are still low, probably due to the Vita and just certain 1st party/Sony published titles bombing which unfortunately is par for the course for Sony, I'm sure everyone already has quite a few Sony titles that they expect to flop this year, I know I do.

Overall I think better results for the division are possible it's just a matter of Sony taking the opportunities.

Oh and that article that counted stronger than expected PS4 sales as a reason for the OI forecast revision seems to have been completely bullshitting.

Remember last year's Q4 numbers were positively impacted by the big shortages during Q3. A lot of people in Europe had to wait January (if not more) to buy the PS4 they wanted for Christmas 2013. There was no shortage this Christmas in comparaison.
 

-MB-

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Nov 4, 2007
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I don't think it is that obvious, but anyway my point still remains.

Even if the gen is shorter. The PS4 would have to drop dead like the Wii to remotely stay in the vicinity of the PS3 sales, which is not going to happen.

If it does a PS3 and drops off fast after a ps5 releases like ps3 did after ps4, then it'll be pretty close.
 

Adachi

Banned
Feb 16, 2015
216
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I still don't understand how you say the Order was a driving factor for a loss in the division or Sony (which you have not specified). Sure it probably didn't sell amazingly well worldwide but to hang such a noose around it's neck is crazy.

The Vita is a much larger culprit at a $92m write off going by today's ExR.

If the Order didn't profit then it definitely attributed to the loss, makes sense doesn't it? I mean it may have come off as if I meant that it was a huge driving factor, which was not my intention but it definitely attributed to it.
 

Ty4on

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Jun 22, 2011
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As usual, Dualshockers is the only site that goes into more details in regards to stuff that's brought up outside of the released reports, such as the Japanese conference calls.

The site's banned here (but not for inaccurate reporting, so the news-bits there are accurate), but you all can go have a look at some of the articles there for some broader context of the stuff here. Here's a quote from one of the articles.

During Sony's financial conference call for Japanese investors and analysts, Chief Financial Officer Kenichiro Yoshida explained that the slightly lower operating income forecast for the Game & Network Services segment for fiscal year 2015 compared to fiscal year 2014 is partly due to the intention to “aggressively invest” in the business.
Great to hear they're investing in the Vita.
:D
 

KillerMan91

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Aug 24, 2011
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Is Saudi considered a developing nation? going by the price differential for the PS3/4 in India,China and Brazil I think it can still be pretty big

Well even if you disregard Saudi Arabia ( I think it's developing country, GPD is high but the distribution of it is extremely uneven) even in China launch price was roughly $468 for PS4. Still not that huge difference especially as you consider that dollar is very strong at the moment. In Brazil the difference is huge but if I remember right Brazil is kinda abnormality in this regard because of their insane import taxes.
 

Circinus

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Mar 18, 2015
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I'm being an armchair analyst right now, but I'm not sure if agressively investing in PlayStation is a good idea. It depends on what they'll do specifically, but it seems like it's mostly PlayStation network services like PS Now. Not sure about the potential for long-term commercial viability for that.


Biggest revenue driver, not biggest earner.
 

Omotesando

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Dec 24, 2007
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If it does a PS3 and drops off fast after a ps5 releases like ps3 did after ps4, then it'll be pretty close.

Even that, you'll have to have a very very very bleak and pessimistic view. The PS4 is already 10 million ahead of the PS3 in the same timeframe, and will continue to widen that gap in the third year (PS3 had a very bad year in its third year), which already negates most of the 'obvious shorter generation scenario''.

Then it has to sell for the remainder of its 3-4 years, which are basically the prime years, exactly like the PS3. Yea not going to happen.

In this thread there are the crazy people who are talking about PS2 like sales. then there are the realistic optimistic people like me who have it in the range of 110-120m. Last year I predicted 100m, but the PS4 did better then expected so upgraded my prediction.

Then there are the realistic pessimistic people who have it pegged down at 100m.

Then there are those other people.......
 

Marlenus

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Jul 29, 2013
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I can guarantee you the next console gen will happen sooner than you think, and won't be about 4K gaming (even if it'll obviously support 4K video playback). If next gen can't even do 1080p with a stable framerate, then what's the point?
As some said higher, however, it doesn't mean this gen won't still be supported and sell in some markets, like this happened with the previous gen.

How long do you think the cycle will be and what do you think the wow factor that sells the next gen consoles will be?

I can see Nintendo getting something else out by 2017 but I doubt it will be much more powerful than the PS4 so not really a game changer in that regard. I do not see VR being a big enough wow factor to sell a console and as I have stated the hardware required to do VR really well is similar to the hardware required to do 4k well so I really do not see it being that short.

If the 14nm to 10nm transition goes smoothly I can see 2019 happening but it really depends on the foundries getting on top of the node shrinks. If we have a nother 20nm fiasco it could be a lot later.
 

Fat4all

Banned
Jan 11, 2015
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slickern a weazle
Nice to hear them pushing for heavier investment in PlayStation.

I wonder how much work & dosh they are throwing at Morpheus. If it and Rift become successful I could see it becoming a sort of Sony companion device type of thing, or at the very least Morpheus mk2 launching with PS5.
 

Man

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Sep 27, 2009
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There will most likely be over 40 million PS4's shipped before Morpheus VR launches next year. Crazy.

They have no forecast for PS3 next year, does that mean it's effectively discontinued already?
I guess with PS.Now they feel this is viable.
 

Fat4all

Banned
Jan 11, 2015
21,024
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I can guarantee you the next console gen will happen sooner than you think, and won't be about 4K gaming (even if it'll obviously support 4K video playback). If next gen can't even do 1080p with a stable framerate, then what's the point?
As some said higher, however, it doesn't mean this gen won't still be supported and sell in some markets, like this happened with the previous gen.

Do you think we'll see PS4 Slims? Normally towards the end of each consoles lifecycle there are remodels usually for the sole purpose of being cheaper to produce while they work on and ship their next console.

Do they skip that step this time?
 
Aug 19, 2006
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Do you think we'll see PS4 Slims? Normally towards the end of each consoles lifecycle there are remodels usually for the sole purpose of being cheaper to produce while they work on and ship their next console.

Do they skip that step this time?

It will happen, question is when. Could see a 14/20nm version happening next year.
 

Xav

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Dec 12, 2006
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Who knew the key to victory this generation basically came down to dissing Microsoft at E3 and re-releasing a bunch of old games.

I've owned a PS4 since launch.
 

1st Course

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Aug 10, 2012
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They have no forecast for PS3 next year, does that mean it's effectively discontinued already?

They don't have forecast for portables either. But yes I'd wager they would announce end of production for PS3 by the end of FY15.

Unit sales:

PS2 FY11: 4.1M
PS2 FY12: Discounted in FY12 Q4

PS3 FY14: 3.1M
PS3 F15: ???
 

Dredd97

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Who knew the key to victory this generation basically came down to dissing Microsoft at E3 and re-releasing a bunch of old games.

I've owned a PS4 since launch.

yes Microsoft lost it, it had fuck all to do with the PS4 being the superior console (in the eyes of many) :/
 

klee123

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Dec 18, 2005
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As usual, Dualshockers is the only site that goes into more details in regards to stuff that's brought up outside of the released reports, such as the Japanese conference calls.

The site's banned here (but not for inaccurate reporting, so the news-bits there are accurate), but you all can go have a look at some of the articles there for some broader context of the stuff here. Here's a quote from one of the articles.

That's a good sign, it means Sony is putting a lot of money into this and I suspect this includes partnerships with other developers and publishers.
 

Marlenus

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It will happen, question is when. Could see a 14/20nm version happening next year.

20nm wont happen. I can see 14nm chips tapping out by the end of this year if the node is looking capable of it. I said in the AMD Zen thread that it is imperative for AMD to get 14nm products out before NV so if they want to test the waters the console SoCs seem like good candidates for it. Not a guarantee of course but they did it in the past with the 4770 as a pipe cleaner for the 5xxx series whan 40nm was being a bit troublesome.
 

OléGunner

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May 4, 2014
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If the Order didn't profit then it definitely attributed to the loss, makes sense doesn't it? I mean it may have come off as if I meant that it was a huge driving factor, which was not my intention but it definitely attributed to it.

Like I said we don't know the overall budget of The Order to reach that conclusion but fair enough-I understand you're coming from.
 

Aceofspades

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Mar 31, 2015
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People always talk about Wii as this incomparable sales force but when its all said and done it was just "successful" console with "good" sales nothing exceptional at all. There was some factors that helped Wii initial success:

-Low price ($249)
-Motion control fad.

After people got sick of motion controls, Wii sales dropped like a fallen rock.

Why doesn't people talk about PS1 sales which is even more than Wii and following a normal (launch-peak-slowdown) pattern.

Also before bringing wii comparisons, why not consider the cheap price into consideration?

PS4 is doing exceptionally well for a $400 console. And I guarantee it wont drop dead like the Wii did.
 

Danlord

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Nov 23, 2011
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If I'm reading right, there's no forecast for PS3 for the next fiscal year, which ties in with Sony closing their manufacturing plant

Sony announced with a press release that the company is going to discontinue all operations at the Japanese Sony Semiconductor Oita Technology Center (A.K.A. Oita TEC), based in Kunisaki, Oita Prefecture.

Oita TEC, formerly a production site for memory packaging, recently focused on the production of advanced packaging (basically the external parts) for chips used on Sony’s PlayStation Consoles. The plant was known to be involved in the production of the packaging of the Cell and RSX chips for the PS3.


...The closure of the plant is scheduled to be completed by the end of March 2016.

Luckily, the factory’s 220 employees won’t lose their jobs, but will be transfered to other plants producing image sensors or to other Sony Semiconductor Corporation sites that will take over some of Oita TEC’s operations.
Source: Banned site for believing in the fake E3 list.

I always thought Sony would do one final slimmer PS3 with a custom APU to act as Cell and the RSX and with a reasonable price cut, sell for a tidy profit in the emerging markets. And I thought they would make the design similar to the PS4 too. Oh well.
 

m@cross

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depends on what xbox has exclusive wise, sony's have been few and far between and some of them just havent been good,Sony may lose this holidays npd sales again this year due to a weak line up again

meh maybe your right maybe your not it depends on who is buying the system and if they have been doing their homework on the hardware. However how does sony compete with a halo game during the holiday? It doesn't

Doing their homework -> PS4 generally best for multi-plats, awareness of games beyond Christmas months and before those months.

Not doing their homework -> PS4 box with star wars on it
 

Xater

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Jul 28, 2007
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Devices (the image sensor division) gone from -¥12B loss in FY13 to ¥93B profit in FY14.

Second most profitable division now. Dat iPhone 6 effect.

Man video games being so important for Sony now is kinda crazy. Especially when you remember how weird it was that they started doing video games to begin with.
 

vpance

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Jun 20, 2005
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The company plans to invest in expanding users figures by increasing the installed base of PS4 by as many units as possible, and then increasing the subscribers of PlayStation Plus further.

In addition to that, Sony will invest in first party software development, original entertainment content and PS Vue. Further investment will go into developing new hardware like Project Morpheus.

Later in the presentation, Yoshida-san explained that among the investment to increase the number of subscribers, to expand content and services and in new hardware “there are some projects to be announced from now on.”

No indication was provided about what those projects could be, but that’s certainly intriguing.

Secret projects, very nice.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Nov 30, 2011
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Great for Sony! Am I reading this right or is Vita actually selling better YoY? I think that PS4 sales at the end of its life it will be roughly around 130 million since it ain't slowing down yet and I don't think it will do that for 2-3 years from now
 

Celine

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Oct 4, 2009
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People always talk about Wii as this incomparable sales force but when its all said and done it was just "successful" console with "good" sales nothing exceptional at all. There was some factors that helped Wii initial success:
I suppose you are referring to Road chart, well that's because Wii is currently the fastest selling console out of the gate.
PS1 for comparison started very slowly (Saturn even slower...).

After people got sick of motion controls, Wii sales dropped like a fallen rock.
Wii sales dropped considerably after 2010.
Until 2010 Wii was the best selling home console in both United States and Japan.
 

Adachi

Banned
Feb 16, 2015
216
0
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I'm being an armchair analyst right now, but I'm not sure if agressively investing in PlayStation is a good idea. It depends on what they'll do specifically, but it seems like it's mostly PlayStation network services like PS Now. Not sure about the potential for long-term commercial viability for that.

I'd say that Playstation network services have huge potential to become longtime profit drivers, especially PSNow can be huge if Sony manages to convince other companies to sell their products with the service pre installed (they are doing that with Samsung already for example). Then they'll still have to work out kinks like pricing and lag problems and the whole thing can become massive.

Also the article says that they're also investing in first party so there's also something that we PS gamers benefit from.
 

I-hate-u

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Oct 1, 2011
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Well, obviously the route Sony is seeing for future revenues are the online services like PS Plus and Vue. I hope the TV stuff doesn't clutter their conferences.
 

Eolz

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How long do you think the cycle will be and what do you think the wow factor that sells the next gen consoles will be?

I can see Nintendo getting something else out by 2017 but I doubt it will be much more powerful than the PS4 so not really a game changer in that regard. I do not see VR being a big enough wow factor to sell a console and as I have stated the hardware required to do VR really well is similar to the hardware required to do 4k well so I really do not see it being that short.

If the 14nm to 10nm transition goes smoothly I can see 2019 happening but it really depends on the foundries getting on top of the node shrinks. If we have a nother 20nm fiasco it could be a lot later.

From what we can hear/read already (results, interviews, linkedin, etc), the "official" next cycle will begin in 2017 if you count Nintendo (or even a bit earlier) and not counting handhelds, Fall 2018 for the others (with obviously a window where they could wait a year depending on strategies and manufacturing/design problems).
I think that in terms of games, crossgen will end around 2020 (a bit like we're finally starting to not have crossgen titles anymore this year).

For the "wow" factor, it's a bit more complicated.
I doubt Nintendo will release a really powerful console, but still noticeably more powerful than the PS4/X1 (but sadly having a different architecture once again, damaging the final port quality), and Iwata already confirmed some sort of "gimmick" (not a fan of the term, but to understand better) to go with it.
For the PS5/Xsomething, I think it will mainly be perfecting what they tried to do this gen (focus on online, sharing with others, "all in one entertainment system", bigger space drive for more digital games from start, 1080p, etc), while allowing more options for the consumer. Basically streamlining PCs. More control options (KB+M), even easier for devs (indie or not), VR at good quality, things like that.

Not a Wow factor, but perfecting it. Didn't see a wow factor for this gen either tbh, apart from a good sharing UX.

Last gen was an anomaly and lasted way too long for good reasons (expensive architectures, start of HD development, industry behaving differently than before, studios disappearing, digital games, indies, etc), this gen is there to get back money, and the architecture is simple enough to get great results from start.

Do you think we'll see PS4 Slims? Normally towards the end of each consoles lifecycle there are remodels usually for the sole purpose of being cheaper to produce while they work on and ship their next console.

Do they skip that step this time?

No, I'm sure there will be some remodel at some point. Maybe not "slim" as some mockups exist, unless they are making a digital-only console (would be a nice experiment), but obviously a cheaper console (for them and for consumers) thanks to cheaper parts and fabrication improvements.
But that's a good question as to when would that happen. When sales start dropping, or waiting near the (official) end of this gen?
 

EatMyFace

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Nov 4, 2014
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depends on what xbox has exclusive wise, sony's have been few and far between and some of them just havent been good,Sony may lose this holidays npd sales again this year due to a weak line up again

meh maybe your right maybe your not it depends on who is buying the system and if they have been doing their homework on the hardware. However how does sony compete with a halo game during the holiday? It doesn't
Sony didn't lose last holiday NPD due to "weak line-up". They lost due to aggressive Microsoft price cuts and bundles.

Forza had nothing to do it. Neither did MCC.
 

EmptySpace

Banned
Jul 10, 2013
5,177
0
0
I'm being an armchair analyst right now, but I'm not sure if agressively investing in PlayStation is a good idea. It depends on what they'll do specifically, but it seems like it's mostly PlayStation network services like PS Now. Not sure about the potential for long-term commercial viability for that.



Biggest revenue driver, not biggest earner.



just look at netflix.


streaming games is the future. that way, pubs can still profit from older games on consoles. just look at steam and gog on pc. yes, you can download them but given the architectural changes of consoles every gen then streaming is the way to go. people saying it wouldn't work have probably forgotten how 240p youtube was in its early days. we have to start somewhere. with the way tech moves, it is only a matter of time before games streaming online is as fast as games streaming from your hdd.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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I don't like seeing the game division cash cowed. It's obvious that crazy experimental PS3 Sony has become Microsoft-ish in some ways. They've consolidated studios and are relying far more on tent pole releases. I guess I blame last gen where they got the shit kicked out of them financially. Still, they make some great games...but have to feel for things like Afrika and Tokyo Jungle that will probably never happen again.

Oh and obviously stellar performance.
 

Javin98

Banned
Nov 30, 2014
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I have it pegged as:

PS4: ~80m -85m

XB1: ~40m

Wii U: ~10m

Vita: ~10m

3DS: ~60m
I never understand why people think the PS4 will end up selling worse than the PS3. If we look at the rate the PS4 is selling, there is no way the sold through numbers would be anything less than 100 million. I'm predicting 120 million at the end of 2020 myself.

Edit: Changed it to a more realistic prediction
 

EGM1966

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Aug 5, 2011
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Who knew the key to victory this generation basically came down to dissing Microsoft at E3 and re-releasing a bunch of old games.

I've owned a PS4 since launch.
Lol - consider the shambles that implies MS were in if they couldn't handle a few re-masters and a bit of fun poking on game sharing.

I think Sony targeting a game centric console vs MS hybrid attempt and I'd argue better decisions around game partnerships and larger games library were bigger factors.

MS were of course a complete shambles which helped too
 

staticneuron

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Jul 7, 2010
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Yes, at the end of FY13, PS3 LTD was lower than 84M:

PS3: 84M *2 *5 (the actual LTD is lower since 80M include part of FY ’13 Q3 shipment, see source *2)

*2:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ach-80-million-units-worldwide-230771611.html
*5
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/hardware_sale_e.html


That would mean PS3 LTD as March 2015 is at most 87M.

It is a stretch to believe that the PS2 took up most of those sales for the quarter because Sony stopped making them in January of that year. But without Sony actually listing the last sales number who know. I mean even MC for Japan did not list the PS2 at the time.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
17,350
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I don't like seeing the game division cash cowed. It's obvious that crazy experimental PS3 Sony has become Microsoft-ish in some ways. They've consolidated studios and are relying far more on tent pole releases. I guess I blame last gen where they got the shit kicked out of them financially. Still, they make some great games...but have to feel for things like Afrika and Tokyo Jungle that will probably never happen again.
Maybe they read your post about how you didn't understand why they made anything but shooters.

Maybe this is cyclical. And the franchise milking is nothing new. God of War is also a decade old and obviously Gran Turismo.
 

Wynnebeck

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Aug 5, 2012
13,016
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Agressive investing by way of increasing unit sales and PSN adoption? Price cut on PS4 and PSN subs incoming. That would drive adoption quick.