It's safe to assume that most console developers, especially lazy Japanese ones, are tying game logic to refresh rate, so stuff like 120hz is probably out the window for most games. This is all an unfortunate side effect of developers who've always worked on fix platforms and never had to handle real software architectures like PC developers who had to make software that was actually robust.
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Sony is currently verifying PS4 games on PS5
- Thread starter bhunachicken
- Start date
It's safe to assume that most console developers, especially lazy Japanese ones, are tying game logic to refresh rate, so stuff like 120hz is probably out the window for most games. This is all an unfortunate side effect of developers who've always worked on fix platforms and never had to handle real software architectures like PC developers who had to make software that was actually robust.
Negotiator
Member
I don't think they do that anymore.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Sure, but given the cost-benefit analysis of what BC would entail here, I think it’s a really low cost for a fairly high reward. This is assuming the PS5 is architecturally a souped up PS4: same design but more memory, faster processors, etc. In that scenario, providing enhanced BC is trivial compared to previous gens including actual hardware to do the work.
I never bought a PS4 Pro because a) I have an aging 1080p TV which doesn’t support HDR and b) I figured around when I’m ready to get a new TV (which is soon), something like PS5 will be around and likely have games like TLOU2 performing much better than my base PS4 can run it. I never got far in TLOU on PS3 because it was so clearly needing next gen hardware to run right, the PS4 version blew me away. I’m guessing that will be the case for these late gen PS4 games...I’m better off waiting to play them on PS5.
They do.
Negotiator
Member
Got any modern game examples?
Last time it was prevalent was during the DOS era and maybe PS1/PS2 games.
Digity
Member
Yep that’s the only logical explanation. Certainly isn’t because people buy new systems for new games or the fact they may keep their old systems around. Is it a nice feature? Sure. Is it needed? Not at all. Of any use to me? Absolutely not. Hell, lots of people get rid of entire current gen collections when the new one rolls around.Exactly
Why anyone would disregard such a brilliant feature is, well, beyond me. To have the ability to play the old games you have already bought on a new system is a perfect mechanic
The only logical explanation for it's disregard is the throw away attitude of today seems too well ingrained in peoples perception of what should be.
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Negotiator
Member
Digital backlogs say hi.
haha are you joking? Look at Gamecube and PS3 emulators. Virtually every game requires a hack to unlock the framerate past 30 and most don't even work properly.
DonF
Member
In my experience, I tend to enjoy new stuff a lot, I explore the games, try every little thing, just cause its new and exciting.
So, for instance, when I got a ps2, I still had the ps1 connected, but I was busy playing all the new stuff, then the xbox 360 came around and with online and very cool HD games, I never touched the ps2 again.
Its all personal. When a new gen comes, I drop the last one like that. BUT! last gen had some gems that I still play to this day. I feel that back compat right now is desired.
Previous gens where so limited that when a new one came along, the difference was immediate, but today its just extra bells and whistles.
I would hate to drop rocket league, apex or overwatch. I need that back compat!
Negotiator
Member
If you're talking about Skyrim and Dark Souls, those were fixed with updates.
Got any modern (as in current-gen) game examples? You know, PS4/XB1/Switch games...
Thaedolus
Gold Member
I think there's an important distinction to make with using the right words here. "Needed," for example. Who would "need" BC when buying a new console? If playing older games from the previous gen is a "need" then you just keep your old consoles. Nobody needs BC as a feature, and I don't need my very expensive PC or VR headset. I could just game on my Switch and be happy, but there are things that I want. I want higher framerates, I want better experiences, I want better than what a base PS4 can provide.
So what gets me to buying a PS5? Pretty much Sony exclusives, given the fact I have a Nintendo console and PC with game pass. Sony exclusives are just about all the PS5 offers me. Add BC though? Make my existing library better? Now the value's gone up dramatically from day 1.
Keihart
Member
Learn to read dumbass "Sony are currently verifying that the PS5 will be 100% backwardly compatible with the PS4 "
Fallout 76 did something weird like this but that's fallout 76.
Absolutey agree, I'm of the opinion that any feature no matter how often it's used is always good to have because others will find it useful.
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Negotiator
Member
Yeah, that's a last-gen game that was fixed with a patch.
Current-gen games have to be scalable, otherwise it would be impossible to have so many console ports to PC. Obviously it wasn't always that way.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Dark Souls II was released in 2014, 2014 is the current gen, it came out on XBOX One, PS4 and PC in 2014. Its availability on PS3s and 360s make it no more last gen than Destiny 1, from the same year.
Also Dark Souls lll had the same problem and instead of patching they simply got rid of weapon degradation, you never need to repair a weapon ever.
FranXico
Member
And that's a proper solution. Weapon degradation is a terrible idea.
Negotiator
Member
It's as last-gen as TLOU1 is, definitely not current-gen. Or you can call it cross-gen if you will.
Either way, we're talking about limited cases of bad/negligent coding that was eventually fixed:
Dark Souls 2's annoying weapon durability bug is finally being fixed
From Software and Namco Bandai are finally fixing a year-old bug in Dark Souls 2 that caused weapons in the game to degrade, and ultimately break, at a fast rate. Because the Windows PC version of...
www.polygon.com
It works fine for Zelda BoTW and CEMU runs it at 60 fps.Weapon degradation is a terrible idea.
Yuzu, the Switch emulator, shows that BotW and Odyssey are both locked framerate games.
Negotiator
Member
As I said, CEMU runs BoTW fine at 60 fps (there's even a Vulkan backend). Yuzu is far less mature for that game. Mario doesn't need more than 60 fps.
Also, I'm pretty sure Nintendo will unlock BoTW's framerate as soon as New Switch Pro comes out.
Skyrim physics were tied with the framerate back in 2011 (remember the cheese glitch?), but that game has been remastered and runs fine at 60 fps, even on OG PS4/Jaguar 1.6 GHz (PSVR version only).
Explosive Zombie
Banned
It's as last-gen as TLOU1 is, definitely not current-gen. Or you can call it cross-gen if you will.
Either way, we're talking about limited cases of bad/negligent coding that was eventually fixed:
Dark Souls 2's annoying weapon durability bug is finally being fixed
From Software and Namco Bandai are finally fixing a year-old bug in Dark Souls 2 that caused weapons in the game to degrade, and ultimately break, at a fast rate. Because the Windows PC version of...
It works fine for Zelda BoTW and CEMU runs it at 60 fps.
TLOU 1 was actually released last gen, in 2013 and ported forward to current gen. A game's existence on last gen doesn't stop what gen it was released for. Persona 5 was released on PS3 as well but no one would claim it's a last gen game.
Negotiator
Member
Persona 5 definitely looks like a last-gen game, but I think you're arguing semantics here.
TLOU1 looks better than many current-gen games, but it's still a last-gen game.
What matters is the dev baseline.
Maybe not you but it's a good thing for a lot of people.
Such as people that are getting this as their first system they have an instant library of games to play when it launches with limited titles for the ps5. And it means ps4 games can hang around longer on store shelves and generate extra revenue. So say God of war 2 comes out which will assuredly be a ps5 title, they can buy part 1 and play it on the same system and be caught up.
Then you have people who normally can't afford one at launch. They can trade in their ps4 towards one and still be able to play their existing library of games. Or just sell the ps4 themselves for cash to help pay for a 5.
And it helps developers by extension as they can continue to make new games that don't require high end hardware like say a retro type game or indie games. And they can continue to use their current dev kits and not have to learn a whole new architecture. But they can still release games that will work on the ps5 as well as ps4.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
What is last gen or current gen is based on platforms launched on, my dude. This gen began at the end of 2013 and has been going ever since.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Why they just delay the ps5 launch until 2021???.... they can do their work calm... we can enjoy our PS4 more... Emulation can work better, We gonna have time to enjoy the next launch ps4 games.... Even, there is any PS5 Game announced ????
I dont get it... Why the Rush in launch PS5 this year???
I dont get it... Why the Rush in launch PS5 this year???
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Okay, I'm just going to go with wanting BC on a system that is capable of doing both.
Later Alligator
Member
are they capped at 30 fps or is there actual game logic tied to the frame rate?
you can lock basically every modern PC game to 30 fps in the settings, but that doesn't mean the game logic is tied to that frame rate
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
I honestly just want to play ps4 games on the ps5. I don't want to get another ps4 in the future and I'll wait for the ps5 to drop in price eventually because of the NOISE.
Kagey K
Banned
I’ve said this before, but I’m going to repeat myself now.
Prior to the XB1 B/C always felt like a disjointed experience. When you fired up your b/c game you lost access to the dashboard, to party chat, to your friends list. It felt like you entered a new world that wasn’t welcoming and only you were invited.
What the XB1 did was integrate everything so it felt seamless. You still had access to all the current gen features, you could still do everything you would on a native Xbox 1 game and it made the interface seamless.
Its so fluid you don’t think “Oh I’m playing a 360 game.” You just think it’s a game in your library same as the rest.
Thats the baseline of what all b/c efforts should be going to. The 4K patches and performance boosts are icing on the cake, but they would have never been embraced like they if if they were still treated as 2 separate systems.
Prior to the XB1 B/C always felt like a disjointed experience. When you fired up your b/c game you lost access to the dashboard, to party chat, to your friends list. It felt like you entered a new world that wasn’t welcoming and only you were invited.
What the XB1 did was integrate everything so it felt seamless. You still had access to all the current gen features, you could still do everything you would on a native Xbox 1 game and it made the interface seamless.
Its so fluid you don’t think “Oh I’m playing a 360 game.” You just think it’s a game in your library same as the rest.
Thats the baseline of what all b/c efforts should be going to. The 4K patches and performance boosts are icing on the cake, but they would have never been embraced like they if if they were still treated as 2 separate systems.
nowhat
Member
If by "fine" you mean "a teen losing his virginity lasts longer than a sword", sure.
Badlucktroll
Member
Does anyone think we will get an emulated "Ps3 Classics" section of the Playstation Store, with games like, Resistance, Killzone 2, and Motorstorm, rendered in native 4k for around $19.99 each?
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Actual logic. The BoTW framerate hacks aren't simple frame unlocks. All kinds of behavior is tied to it.
Game devs blow. People don't appreciate what hack jobs games have always been.
Digity
Member
Would love a version of KZ2 that ran at higher resolutions, but more importantly 60fps.
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FranXico
Member
Maybe, but I would rather be able to play my original discs on the ps5.
Esppiral
Member
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Most likely won't happen. Sony hasn't made old hardware compatible with their newest systems. Might have to buy a brook thingie or something for my joystick.
edit: part 6 never
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Actually, plenty of Xbox 360 games has received a 4k one x update for the One X. Problem is PS4 can't play PS3 games
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
as long as i can play Bloodborne on my PS5 then i'll be happy.
i hope that game is up there as a top priority. i can live without any other game but I need my Bloodborne.
i don't think it should really be an issue. there's no reason why performance shouldn't be any different from how it runs on a PS4 unless the emulation is software based which i doubt for PS4 games. if we can play PS1/2/3 games then likely they will be software based.
if you can get 4K 60fps in a game on PS4 Pro then you should get that on PS5. if you can only manage 720p 30fps on a PS4 Pro then that's what you should get. the PS5 should essentially be a "PS4 Super Pro".
games that never got an update to support PS4 Pro might get an update that will take advantage of the PS5/"PS4 Super Pro" hardware (looking at Bloodborne). even if games dont' get updated the sheer increase in power should brute force the games to run at higher/more stable framerates or resolutions. if a game is capped at 30fps/60fps or 720/1080p then that's as best as it will get unless the developer steps in with a patch.
i hope that game is up there as a top priority. i can live without any other game but I need my Bloodborne.
i don't think it should really be an issue. there's no reason why performance shouldn't be any different from how it runs on a PS4 unless the emulation is software based which i doubt for PS4 games. if we can play PS1/2/3 games then likely they will be software based.
if you can get 4K 60fps in a game on PS4 Pro then you should get that on PS5. if you can only manage 720p 30fps on a PS4 Pro then that's what you should get. the PS5 should essentially be a "PS4 Super Pro".
games that never got an update to support PS4 Pro might get an update that will take advantage of the PS5/"PS4 Super Pro" hardware (looking at Bloodborne). even if games dont' get updated the sheer increase in power should brute force the games to run at higher/more stable framerates or resolutions. if a game is capped at 30fps/60fps or 720/1080p then that's as best as it will get unless the developer steps in with a patch.
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Negotiator
Member
I think you confuse cross-gen with current-gen/next-gen.
For example, cross-gen (PS4/PS5) games released in 2020-2022 will be considered last-gen, since the dev baseline will be based around last-gen consoles (PS4/XB1).
Last-gen dev baseline means gameplay hacks to hide loading times (since HDD will be the baseline, not the SSD) etc etc.
No offense, but you remind me of people saying Zelda BoTW is a Switch game, not a Wii U one.
Last time I checked, that didn't work too well for the PS3 (2006) vs XBOX 360 (2005).
If that means reviving classic MP games like Uncharted 2 & 3, then sign me up!
MP is the only reason I'd pay again, otherwise if it's SP-only with no servers, then Bluepoint could release some PS5 4K patches (like XB1X 4K updates for 360 BC)...
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Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
I think you confuse cross-gen with current-gen/next-gen.
For example, cross-gen (PS4/PS5) games released in 2020-2022 will be considered last-gen, since the dev baseline will be based around last-gen consoles (PS4/XB1).
Last-gen dev baseline means no RT, gameplay hacks to hide loading times (since HDD will be the baseline, not the SSD) etc etc.
No offense, but you remind me of people saying Zelda BoTW is a Switch game, not a Wii U one.
Last time I checked, that didn't work too well for the PS3 (2006) vs XBOX 360 (2005).
If that means reviving classic MP games like Uncharted 2 & 3, then sign me up!
MP is the only reason I'd pay again, otherwise if it's SP-only with no servers, then Bluepoint could release some PS5 4K patches (like XB1X 4K updates for 360 BC)...
i understand to this point the Pressure from Xbox.... but Isn't that what PS4 Pro and Xbox one X did for that?
Microsoft even announced its new console?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I think you confuse cross-gen with current-gen/next-gen.
For example, cross-gen (PS4/PS5) games released in 2020-2022 will be considered last-gen, since the dev baseline will be based around last-gen consoles (PS4/XB1).
Last-gen dev baseline means gameplay hacks to hide loading times (since HDD will be the baseline, not the SSD) etc etc.
No offense, but you remind me of people saying Zelda BoTW is a Switch game, not a Wii U one.
Last time I checked, that didn't work too well for the PS3 (2006) vs XBOX 360 (2005).
If that means reviving classic MP games like Uncharted 2 & 3, then sign me up!
MP is the only reason I'd pay again, otherwise if it's SP-only with no servers, then Bluepoint could release some PS5 4K patches (like XB1X 4K updates for 360 BC)...
When we do top games of the gen lists people consistently list Breath of the Wild. Absolutely no one argues they're wrong about what gen it's from.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
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