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[Neuromancer]

UPDATE: "There will be a limited number of titles that require Move controllers"

Has anyone posted this yet?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/14/1...n-vr-games-will-support-dualshock-controllers

Update 1:30PM ET: Sony has issued a modified version of a statement it made earlier this week, saying that all PlayStation VR games would support its PlayStation 4 gamepad. Its new statement is below:

"Nearly all PlayStation VR titles will support DualShock 4 controllers, and several games will deliver an enhanced experience that further immerses gamers with the use of peripherals such as Move or the recently announced Aim controller. There will be a limited number of titles that require Move controllers."

Original post:

After the cover art for some PSVR games appeared at retailers last week, some people had questions about why Move controllers appeared mandatory for some games. Sony has since cleared it up in a message to Eurogamer:

All PlayStation VR titles will support DualShock 4 controllers. However some game experiences will be enhanced with the use of peripherals such as Move or the recently announced Aim controller.

Images being shown of PSVR packaging on some websites are early mock ups and not representative of the finished packaging.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-11-psvr-game-boxes-make-it-clear-you-need-a-psvr

 

[Sizzel]

How is this a bonus for VR? The Vive controllers are awesome and it would a tangibly lesser experience if I had to use a pad. Immersion breaker.

unless you are trying to playing normal games in a theater mode I guess.

EDIT: i mean I want things optimized for use with the move.. not having the move shoehorned in as an option.

 

[Arulan]

What a terrible precedent to set.

Controllers already limit game design (and user-interface design) in a lot of traditional games, it'll be even worse for VR. Tracked controller (hand presence) is fundamental for VR, with few exceptions.

 

[Daft Punk]

How is this a bonus for VR? The Vive controllers are awesome and it would a tangibly lesser experience if I had to use a pad. Immersion breaker.

unless you are trying to playing normal games in a theater mode I guess.

Not everyone wants to play a VR game waving their arms around. Sony is right by giving consumers the choice. If you want to use motion controls, go ahead. However, if you get tired, you can still play with a DS4. Not seeing a problem.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Rift comes with an Xbox controller so what is the big deal?

Support for multiple controllers is good.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Something something vive something something psvr subpar

Before it begins just want to say good. I was afraid most of those psvr world games were only used with move. On the flip side...I could've just bought the regular psvr instead of the bundle lol o well

 

[ps3ud0]

What a terrible precedent to set.

Controllers already limit game design (and user-interface design) in a lot of traditional games, it'll be even worse for VR. Tracked controller (hand presence) is fundamental for VR, with few exceptions.

Nice edit - agree though...

ps3ud0 8)

 

[sense]

personally think they will have a much better controller next holiday equivalent to vive/ oculus touch or even better. wasn't there a rumor of a glove controller because that would be cool.

 

[InsaneTiger]

I don't understand the complaint, they just said it was supported not required.

 

[Opt1kon_]

Rift comes with an Xbox controller so what is the big deal?

Support for multiple controllers is good.

My sentiments exactly I don't understand the rage people have or why they're even upset it has the move controllers while not the best they're free motion kind of like the Vive controllers, & they have the PS4 controllers like the Rift

 

[Sangetsu-II]

That's great they have 40million consoles with DS4 controllers they are just opening the PSVR platform to more people. If people want a more immersive experience they can buy move or aim controllers. Great move by Sony.

You essentially need the camera and the headset which cost of entry would be no more than $450

 

[Neuromancer]

I don't understand the complaint, they just said it was supported not required.

I don't get it either. And if they were required, there'd be an another group of people complaining about that too.

Last generation we had games like Resistance 3 that supported both, and that game was awesome with the sharpshooter. There is no need to be upset.

 

[Durante]

I don't think that's a good standard to adhere to.

I'm curious how Job Simulator will work on a dual-analog controller.

 

[Arulan]

I don't understand the complaint, they just said it was supported not required.

My sentiments exactly I don't understand the rage people have or why they're even upset it has the move controllers while not the best they're free motion kind of like the Vive controllers, & they have the PS4 controllers like the Rift

"All PlayStationVR titles will support DualShock 4 controllers."

This is the problem. Every game has to support the controller. A lot of games with tracked controllers just cannot be done otherwise, but now they have to limit potential to force compatibility. Traditional console games would suffer if they had to work with tablets and phone, because of the touch screen and lack of buttons. PC games often suffer when made to work for controllers during initial design. VR will suffer if they're forced to adhere to the lowest common denominator here.

 

[Neuromancer]

Remember that the DS4 is positionally tracked by the PS4 camera too. So it's not an issue of dual analog vs motion controller. They're all motion controllers.

 

[robotrock]

This is dumb.

There's no reason for devs to have to design within the constraints of the Dualshock 4 for their Move focused game. The boxes say "You need these", you need these!

 

[Lord Error]

I don't think that's a good standard to adhere to.

I'm curious how Job Simulator will work on a dual-analog controller.

It's good because you don't have to spend obscene amounts of money to play something.

In a DS4-only Job simulator gameplay, I assume you will have just one hand - the one in which you hold the controller. The controller can be tracked positionally the same exact way move does, it's just a bit more unwieldy to hold with one hand. But not much really. The triggers and all the buttons are still easily accessible if you wave it around in one hand.

 

[the-pi-guy]

How is this a bonus for VR? The Vive controllers are awesome and it would a tangibly lesser experience if I had to use a pad. Immersion breaker.

unless you are trying to playing normal games in a theater mode I guess.

EDIT: i mean I want things optimized for use with the move.. not having the move shoehorned in as an option.

It won't be. The DS4 will likely be used as a move controller in some games that basically require the Move.
It's why the DS4 has a light bar.

 

[RedAssedApe]

How is this a bonus for VR? The Vive controllers are awesome and it would a tangibly lesser experience if I had to use a pad. Immersion breaker.

unless you are trying to playing normal games in a theater mode I guess.

EDIT: i mean I want things optimized for use with the move.. not having the move shoehorned in as an option.

more options are bad.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

"All PlayStationVR titles will support DualShock 4 controllers."

This is the problem. Every game has to support the controller. A lot of games with tracked controllers just cannot be done otherwise, but now they have to limit potential to force compatibility.

The DS4 is essentially a tracked controller too just so you know. All you have to do is put each analog to control a virtual hand sort of how surgeon simulator works

 

[Neuromancer]

This is dumb.

There's no reason for devs to have to design within the constraints of the Dualshock 4 for their Move focused game. The boxes say "You need these", you need these!

Read the statement again; the box art is a mock up and not final.

 

[serversurfer]

I don't think that's a good standard to adhere to.

I'm curious how Job Simulator will work on a dual-analog controller.

"One-handed," would be my guess.

Edit: DS4 is trackable, remember.

 

[pj]

I hope this means there are motion controller based games with shoehorned ds4 support, rather than the other way around.

 

[TheGuardian]

Requiring games to support the DS4 is as stupid as when Apple required games to support the Siri Remote.
Games should be free to require whatever control scheme they feel is best, even if it cuts on their potential market.

 

[Daft Punk]

I don't think that's a good standard to adhere to.

I'm curious how Job Simulator will work on a dual-analog controller.

You can either use Move or a DS4. How is choice not a good standard? If it were Move only, people would be in here complaining that Sony is forcing people to use motions controls. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

[Loudninja]

The thing is for the PS4 not having require DS4 support would be silly.

 

[pj]

"One-handed," would be my guess.

Edit: DS4 is trackable, remember.

I assume it will be gaze based like the climb, with a trigger being the grab for each hand.

One handed would be weird. I doubt it would be comfortable to hold the controller for long like that, and it would probably be more immersion breaking to have half your hands represented than to have neither.

 

[AmuroChan]

"All PlayStationVR titles will support DualShock 4 controllers."

This is the problem. Every game has to support the controller. A lot of games with tracked controllers just cannot be done otherwise, but now they have to limit potential to force compatibility. Traditional console games would suffer if they had to work with tablets and phone, because of the touch screen and lack of buttons. PC games often suffer when made to work for controllers during initial design. VR will suffer if they're forced to adhere to the lowest common denominator here.

DS4 has Move built in. The light bar is what the camera uses for tracking.

 

[Durante]

It's good because you don't have to spend obscene amounts of money to play something.

I guess, but the incremental cost of move seems negligible compared to all the other stuff you need.

In Job simulator, I assume you will have just one hand - the one in which you hold the controller. The controller can be tracked positionally the same exact way move does, it's just a bit more unwieldy to hold with one hand.

So the answer to my question is that it will work terribly?
If that is the solution it's probably a better choice than forcing people to come up with actually workable control schemes for dual analog (which might not really be possible on some games -- like Job Simulator).

You can either use Move or a DS4. How is choice not a good standard?

Choice is good, but in this case I would interpret choice as giving developers the choice to implement VR game ideas which depend on VR controllers.

 

[Arulan]

The DS4 is essentially a tracked controller too just so you know. All you have to do is put each analog to control a virtual hand sort of how surgeon simulator works

I know. That makes it slightly better than a traditional controller, but the point remains. You need tracked controllers for your hands. Some games could possibly work with one, but it's still very limiting. The point is to remove control abstractions.

Given Sony's advantage of already having the Move controllers to work with, I'd have thought they would have leveraged this. It's not even included in the basic SKU, right? This is disappointing.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

You can either use Move or a DS4. How is choice not a good standard? If it were Move only, people would be in here complaining that Sony is forcing people to use motions controls. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

People were in fact asking this very question in the bundle thread. Asking if the move would be necessary for every game. So it is in fact a good option it would seem. But I'm sure we'll find away to make some big thing out of it

 

[Z3M0G]

I'm shocked that all PSVR games can be played with DS4 controllers... I would expect at least a few to require Move controllers.

The games better come with GREAT Move support where appropriate then... they better not phone it in!

 

[muteki]

Great, I'm not really interested in the move.

 

[backbreaker65]

"OPTIONS" what is wrong with options? We are just getting started with VR, there is no right or wrong at this point in time, all we have now is preference and if you prefer a control system to another good. But, if I have the option to choose, what da problem is?

 

[pj]

The thing is for the PS4 not having require DS4 support would be silly.

Why? There are vive games that don't support the steam controller or anything but vive controllers. There will be Oculus touch games that don't support the xbox controller it shipped with.

Would you expect a kinect game to also be playable with only a controller and no kinect? I mean xbox does ship with a controller so it would be silly for any game to not let you play using it

 

[Loudninja]

Why? There are vive games that don't support the steam controller or anything but vive controllers. There will be Oculus touch games that don't support the xbox controller it shipped with.

Would you expect a kinect game to also be playable with only a controller and no kinect? I mean xbox does ship with a controller so it would be silly for any game to not let you play using it

How is this at all the same thing?

 

[Regiruler]

It's overly restricting to the developers. They should support whatever they want.

 

[cakefoo]

If they mean analog sticks and buttons, well that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If they mean using the DS4's motion tracking, well, 2-handed Grandma bowling I guess could be a thing.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Fine by me...Battlezone and Rez are fun as hell with a controller.

 

[Occam]

Remember that the DS4 is positionally tracked by the PS4 camera too. So it's not an issue of dual analog vs motion controller. They're all motion controllers.

Indeed. This is nothing like Facebook's Oculus supporting Xbone controllers.

Remember the LED on DS4 everyone always complained about? It's for PSVR.

 

[Nightengale]

personally think they will have a much better controller next holiday equivalent to vive/ oculus touch or even better. wasn't there a rumor of a glove controller because that would be cool.

Why would they fragment their gen 1 product that was introduced mid-cycle of PS4?

I'd say none of those stuff comes until PSVR2 for PS5.

 

[napata]

The thing is for the PS4 not having require DS4 support would be silly.

What is Playstation Move?

 

[jaypah]

Thinking of my Vive library I can't even imagine how some of those games would work with only one controller. I wonder if devs will just design around DS4 for the most part? Lol I'm even more curious to see how this all plays out now.

 

[pj]

How is this at all the same thing?

I have a vive and the controller based games I've played are completely different than the motion controller games. Forcing one to be the other is gonna come with compromises.

 

[Lord Error]

So the answer to my question is that it will work terribly?
If that is the solution it's probably a better choice than forcing people to come up with actually workable control schemes for dual analog (which might not really be possible on some games -- like Job Simulator).

Try holding it one hand, it's not what I'd call terrible - it's not much heavier than Move. I mean in games where you wave your hands around you typically won't be playing them for extended periods of time anyway. And if you want to, you have the option to invest more into a Move controller. But since it's technically possible to do the exact same thing with the stock equipment that every user already owns, why the hell not support that.

Now thinking about this, there was some game where one of the control options was to hold the controller this way. A kind of a light-gun game I think.

 

[Hale-XF11]

That's a silly requirement which only serves to restrict VR development. I'm bummed if this is true.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

 

[Qassim]

This is bad. If you have to cater to the Dualshock 4, then you're limited in what you can design.

This isn't good for VR.

You can either use Move or a DS4. How is choice not a good standard?

This is literally the opposite of choice. This is removing the choice from developers to design a game around motion controls.

 

[Arulan]

"OPTIONS" what is wrong with options? We are just getting started with VR, there is no right or wrong at this point in time, all we have now is preference and if you prefer a control system to another good. But, if I have the option to choose, what da problem is?

Most people don't understand the consequences of options. A classic example is the quest marker. Sure, you have the option to use it, or turn it off, but that's ignoring the fact that developers will then just design their game (and more easily) with markers turned on by default, and not bother creating the various systems, dialogue options, signs, environment design, etc. that have to be in place for no quest markers to work (compare Morrowind to Oblivion or Skyrim).

Adding options isn't always a good thing. In this case, it's forcing developers who want to take significant advantage of independently tracked controllers, by having to make it work with the standard DualShock 4.

 

[nbnt]

Wait, what? There's gotta be some miscommunication here. How would a DS substitute for two Move controllers? Like the Vive games that are coming to PSVR would need major rework to support both.